Humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970

green shoots · 01-11-2018 11:32am #1

Hi all. I've been checking here the last few days to see if there's a post about this, I find it remarkable how little anyone cares really!
We seem to be destroying our ecosystem, worldwide, and 60% of all wildlife has now perished since the 70s.
Here in Ireland most of our wildlife was wiped out by deforestation and farming a long time ago, but our current super consumer lifestyles has a global impact outside of these lands.
Forests are being cleared in Argentina and Brazil to produce soy which is imported to Europe to feed animals we consume. Our seas are overfished and contaminated with plastic.
It's all really depressing. Look around Ireland and it's one big beef farm with no trees. We are the least forested country in Europe, we have no wilderness, and there's nowhere for wildlife to thrive. This can't be good for the equilibrium of the lands.
So most people seem to say "It's too late there's nothing we can do it'll all sort itself out", or blame Governments. I'm just wondering what the average Irish person is willing to do to help change things? Your Government wont be doing anything any time soon, all they care about is economic expansion for some reason and not the health of the people and planet.
Bear in mind when you're buying tonnes of crap at Xmas, most of it will end up in landfill or the sea. All that plastic rubbish is unnecessary.
I know I'll be lynched for mentioning this, but I gave up red meat and dairy recently, and I feel a lot better for it, and it's really quite easy to do. It would have a massive impact on the planet if we curbed our appetite for meat somewhat.
Am I the only person disturbed by this recent news?

Deebles McBeebles · 01-11-2018 11:33am

Apparently we have a 2 year window to act. So, say goodbye to what's left of the animals now.

Spudmonkey · 01-11-2018 11:50am

This has actually been disturbing me lately as well. I brought it up in work and most people had little to no interest. I can't understand how people with kids in particular can be so indifferent to it. This is the world we are leaving for them, one of no diversity.

The changes we'd have to make to our lifestyles are so extreme they would never happen in time. It would be such a shock to the system that there would be widespread disruption. It's so depressing really. Future generations or what remains of them will not judge us our or the generations that preceded us kindly.

tigger123 · 01-11-2018 11:52am

Unless it was Travellers that did it, no one in After Hours cares.

Billy Mays · 01-11-2018 11:53am

Don't believe those numbers. It's a left wing conspiracy, same as global warming etc..

kneemos · 01-11-2018 11:57am

Only one species of human.

The humanity.

whiskeyman · 01-11-2018 11:58am

For years we've wanted to 'save the planet', but in reality the planet is fine.

We're the ones who are fcuked.
Maybe the green campaign should change to 'Save humanity' instead of 'save the environment', because that's the reality.

I am genuinely fearful for the world we are going to leave to the next generations. The sense of apathy and ultimately desire for instant happiness, consumption and greed will wipe us out.

wexie · 01-11-2018 11:58am

Billy Mays wrote: »

Don't believe those numbers. It's a left wing conspiracy, same as global warming etc..

Lets, for arguments sake, go with that and take it for true (it's not).

So there would be a conspiracy to encourage us to consume less, less meat, less plastic, less fossil fuels etc. etc. etc.

Where's the harm? They're all things that make sense in and of their own to do regardless of whether or not this news is true?

SEPT 23 1989 · 01-11-2018 12:03pm

the tasty ones will survive

Mooooo · 01-11-2018 12:04pm

OP How much of your food, clothes, etc is imported, every part of the car you drive was pulled from the ground and melted shaped etc into what you sit in, bar the leather seats. The fuel you use in it be it battery or oil is mined fromt ground. Soy is grown for the vegetable oil with the leftovers being used for animal feed. Food is being thrown out just because its not used and having the newest gadget while getting rid of the old one for no other reason than the fact a new one is out. Meat and dairy is being made a scapegoat for a lot of climate change brigade but it's rampant consumerism is the problem, on every front. You want more environmentally sustainable food buy local, but it will cost more. Fruit and veg is imported, native growers of veg and all food are getting squeezed by supermarkets to make it cheaper and cheaper. Have a look at how your avocados are produced in Mexico or what happens to old greenhouses in Spain when they change em to grow your fruit and veg

eigrod · 01-11-2018 12:10pm

Too many of us, too little of them (the animals). Population control is the way forward.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-11-2018 12:13pm

green shoots wrote: »

Hi all. I've been checking here the last few days to see if there's a post about this, I find it remarkable how little anyone cares really!
We seem to be destroying our ecosystem, worldwide, and 60% of all wildlife has now perished since the 70s.
Here in Ireland most of our wildlife was wiped out by deforestation and farming a long time ago, but our current super consumer lifestyles has a global impact outside of these lands.
Forests are being cleared in Argentina and Brazil to produce soy which is imported to Europe to feed animals we consume. Our seas are overfished and contaminated with plastic.
It's all really depressing. Look around Ireland and it's one big beef farm with no trees. We are the least forested country in Europe, we have no wilderness, and there's nowhere for wildlife to thrive. This can't be good for the equilibrium of the lands.
So most people seem to say "It's too late there's nothing we can do it'll all sort itself out", or blame Governments. I'm just wondering what the average Irish person is willing to do to help change things? Your Government wont be doing anything any time soon, all they care about is economic expansion for some reason and not the health of the people and planet.
Bear in mind when you're buying tonnes of crap at Xmas, most of it will end up in landfill or the sea. All that plastic rubbish is unnecessary.
I know I'll be lynched for mentioning this, but I gave up red meat and dairy recently, and I feel a lot better for it, and it's really quite easy to do. It would have a massive impact on the planet if we curbed our appetite for meat somewhat.
Am I the only person disturbed by this recent news?

It would be fairly easy to ban soy (sorry vegans). Irish beef is largely grass fed summer and winter and extra feed could be sourced locally.

It’s true that Ireland is largely pasture based but that’s been the case for centuries if not millennia.

archer22 · 01-11-2018 12:16pm

The sad reality is that most people don't care...selfishness and greed are the hallmarks of humanity.

And Governments will move trillions of dollars of military equipment to fight some war for control of oil.

But not put a single predator drone in the air to protect the last of the Elephants, Rhinos and big cats etc.

i71jskz5xu42pb · 01-11-2018 12:16pm

wexie wrote: »

Lets, for arguments sake, go with that and take it for true (it's not).

So there would be a conspiracy to encourage us to consume less, less meat, less plastic, less fossil fuels etc. etc. etc.

Where's the harm? They're all things that make sense in and of their own to do regardless of whether or not this news is true?

wexie · 01-11-2018 12:17pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It would be fairly easy to ban soy (sorry vegans). Irish beef is largely grass fed summer and winter and extra feed could be sourced locally.

I don't think there's a need to ban it, soy has been around for a lot longer than the problems it's currently causing, same goes for palm oil.

What should be banned is the way it's being produced in an unsustainable manner. Of course that would mean prices would go up and we can't be having that of course can we :mad:

Like Mooo said above, it's the consumerism and greed that's at the base of all of this. The idea that we need new clothes, cars, gadgets etc. etc. etc. on a regular basis.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-11-2018 12:18pm

Here is some info on this matter.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/we-depend-two-times-more-on-imported-animal-feed-than-our-neighbours-832683.html

Much imported feed is for the poultry and pig sector. If you don't see the animals they are probably indoors. Its possible in fact to eat red meat and have (probably) less effect on the Amazonian forests than a vegan diet. I would have thought that sheep were a fairly environmentally safe options, particularly the local ones perambulating the hills.

wexie · 01-11-2018 12:22pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Here is some info on that matter.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/we-depend-two-times-more-on-imported-animal-feed-than-our-neighbours-832683.html

While I broadly understand the economics behind all of it I still think it is complete and utter madness that it can be economically viable to import a by product from halfway across the world, to feed animals we breed here, for them to be slaughtered and them exported elsewhere....

That just doesn't make any sense if you think about it.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-11-2018 12:28pm

wexie wrote: »

I don't think there's a need to ban it, soy has been around for a lot longer than the problems it's currently causing, same goes for palm oil.

What should be banned is the way it's being produced in an unsustainable manner. Of course that would mean prices would go up and we can't be having that of course can we :mad:

Like Mooo said above, it's the consumerism and greed that's at the base of all of this. The idea that we need new clothes, cars, gadgets etc. etc. etc. on a regular basis.

Ireland can't ban unsustainable production of soy in Brazil, thats up to Brazil. All we can do is ( with the EU) stop or reduce the imports.

The other stuff you mentioned may or may not be having this effect on the rain forests and the drop in animal populations. Certainly plastic is an issue and should be reduced or banned over time. Fishing needs to be curtailed, even more. Some gadgets source material from bad regimes, or mines in Africa but Im not sure of the effect on the animal population, because these mines are in general not in those kinds of areas.

Most of the reductions in the wild animal population seem to be, as you would expect, in or around the areas of South America and other developing countries that haven't yet been industrialised or exposed to the market, and have more untouched environmental systems. To help them we would need to actually make it economically viable for the country and the locals to not slash and burn. The carrot could be money, the stick could be tariffs

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-11-2018 12:29pm

wexie wrote: »

While I broadly understand the economics behind all of it I still think it is complete and utter madness that it can be economically viable to import a by product from halfway across the world, to feed animals we breed here, for them to be slaughtered and them exported elsewhere....

That just doesn't make any sense if you think about it.

Sure, but Irish agriculture could quite possibly survive without feed stuffs, American agriculture probably couldn't.

maybe Dev was right?

Mooooo · 01-11-2018 12:43pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Sure, but Irish agriculture could quite possibly survive without feed stuffs, American agriculture probably couldn't.

maybe Dev was right?

It could survive the same as here, the US can grow there own feeds and have areas of grassland as well, output would reduce and cost go up depending on how it's all done of course. Grass is our protein source, our climate isn't suitable for some crops and can be too wet too often to grow food grade crops as well as more susceptible to fungus and other things than other parts of the world. Livestock are the way to utilise the grass which is the most durable crop we grow here

green shoots · 01-11-2018 12:44pm

Mooooo wrote: »

OP How much of your food, clothes, etc is imported, every part of the car you drive was pulled from the ground and melted shaped etc into what you sit in, bar the leather seats. The fuel you use in it be it battery or oil is mined fromt ground. Soy is grown for the vegetable oil with the leftovers being used for animal feed. Food is being thrown out just because its not used and having the newest gadget while getting rid of the old one for no other reason than the fact a new one is out. Meat and dairy is being made a scapegoat for a lot of climate change brigade but it's rampant consumerism is the problem, on every front. You want more environmentally sustainable food buy local, but it will cost more. Fruit and veg is imported, native growers of veg and all food are getting squeezed by supermarkets to make it cheaper and cheaper. Have a look at how your avocados are produced in Mexico or what happens to old greenhouses in Spain when they change em to grow your fruit and veg

I'm aware of all this. I can't help feeling guilty when I buy anything these days, it's horrible!
Regarding the Spanish bread basket - they grow a lot of vegetables all year round that can't be produced here outside of the warmer months. I used to work in Southern Spain for a few years and yes vast swathes of the land is covered in plastic tents, that aren't disposed of properly. That's not the half of it, plastic waste is strewn across Southern Spain everywhere, it's shocking. Bottles, covers for vegetables, all sorts. They do a lot of things right in Spain but it's absolutely filthy down in the southern regions.
However, we need Spain to produce vegetables, it feeds half of Europe, we just need it done in a more sustainable way. Anyone who saw Simon Reeves there the other night on the Mediterranean documentary will know the damage it's doing. The land is mostly arid and the weather makes for perfect growing under those tents, but something has to change to get it right.
Lately I've simplified my diet. I can eat a piece of turkey for e.g. for dinner (probably fed on imported soy, I know!), some potatoes, and brocolli. All produced here in Eire. I've had similar to that all week for dinner. All of those ingredients are produced locally. I usually just have oats for breakfast and salad for lunch. I think we've gotten too complicated with foods these days, it would probably be healthier if we had less options!

green shoots · 01-11-2018 12:47pm

Mooooo wrote: »

It could survive the same as here, the US can grow there own feeds and have areas of grassland as well, output would reduce and cost go up depending on how it's all done of course. Grass is our protein source, our climate isn't suitable for some crops and can be too wet too often to grow food grade crops as well as more susceptible to fungus and other things than other parts of the world. Livestock are the way to utilise the grass which is the most durable crop we grow here

There is more damage done to the environment by cattle farming and beef production than just the land it takes up. Animal waste, effects on wildlife etc. Our rivers are being contaminated by farmers time and time again. Have a quick google to see how regular occurring this is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production

I think we should look at reforesting some of our lands in Ireland, maybe paying beef farmers to tend to them. But that's never going to happen really is it? What TD would say anything bad about beef production in Ireland? Political suicide.

The_Kew_Tour · 01-11-2018 12:47pm

99.99% of Living things that have graced this planet are now extint

looksee · 01-11-2018 12:54pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-46039996

What we can do does seem pretty insignificant compared with what a single person can do in a country - as reported about Brazil's new president, or the climate deniers in the US.

Still, there are things we can do as individuals - just stop buying single use plastic bottles of water and other drinks for a start. A miniscule contribution to the effort, but its a start. Its very difficult not to buy packaging but if you do, recycle it properly. When you can, buy things with less packaging.

After the war years it was considered pretty much sinful to waste food; gradually this has changed and food is treated with much less respect - eat the stuff you have in the fridge in sequence so it doesn't go off before you get to it, if you find you are throwing a particular foodstuff away, stop buying it.

We managed to change our public mindset fairly quickly with the plastic bag charge and the ban on smoking; everyone who speaks against waste and destruction will help swing the pendulum and keep the world habitable. There will always be those few who would rather make a smart remark than stir themselves to make an effort, they need to be the minority, so if you have a view on what can be done, express it.

Silent Running · 01-11-2018 1:11pm

The Earth is currently infected with a virus. It's ravaging the planet and is probably reaching it's peak. It will kill itself when it can no longer tolerate the conditions it has created. The world will then set about repairing the damage the virus has caused. The planet was fine before the virus arrived and it will be fine once it has died off.

We are the virus.

Kuva · 01-11-2018 1:44pm

Some of the original guys that wrote about the climate/damage we were doing changed careers and went into psysology to see if they could understand why no one gave a f0ck.

They wrote a paper after, it's out there.

It's been to late now for a long time, all you can hope for now is you live in a place that won't kill you as things get worse, the guys above moved to new Zealand (where most billionaires are buying up everything and have always ready to go, go bags just incase, in reality though it won't save them though from the hoardes of climate refugees that's coming, they're coming by truck with all their stuff) and Scandinavia.

Atmospheric climate seeding has to come yet.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-11-2018 1:57pm

Silent Running wrote: »

The Earth is currently infected with a virus. It's ravaging the planet and is probably reaching it's peak. It will kill itself when it can no longer tolerate the conditions it has created. The world will then set about repairing the damage the virus has caused. The planet was fine before the virus arrived and it will be fine once it has died off.

We are the virus.

Calm down Thanos. Hold your horses agent smith.

All life on earth has had an effect on the earth. Oxygen was a trace element but then rapidly increased due to the increase in photosynthetic flora. This is a presumed cause of the first ice age.

The earth has no steady state over time. It’s one giant feedback loop, the earth in its varying trajectories affecting life and life affecting the earth. Then there’s the odd asteroid level extinction event.

Humans are a problem, but hoping for a worldwide genocide is not really a helpful solution. And it won’t happen anyway. If the worst predictions come true the rich will survive.

archer22 · 01-11-2018 1:58pm

Talking about simple things that can be done to help...one never mentioned is if Farmers simply stopped flail mowing their hedgerows down to skeletons.

Nothing can survive through the winter in these hedge remnants and there is no food berries or nothing of value left in them.
This is one of the big causes of bird decline in Ireland...and I can't see what logic there is in any sense to cut hedges like that.

It even deprives the farm animals of shelter from cold winds and rain.

The Rape of Lucretia · 01-11-2018 2:10pm

green shoots wrote: »

Hi all. I've been checking here the last few days to see if there's a post about this, I find it remarkable how little anyone cares really!
We seem to be destroying our ecosystem, worldwide, and 60% of all wildlife has now perished since the 70s.

Its only really a worry if compared to what percentage of them we need to allow us survive. Are there any stats on that, and how much it could reduce, yet not impact humans?

Of course, we want animals as food, but even worldwide, that doesnt add up to many varieties, and farming them is the way anyway. Obviously, some should be preserved in the likes of zoos etc, and bees or other insects have a role in pollenation, the food chain, and the general ecosystem. But loads of them could probably still be lost yet, and there be no impact.
60% is a headline grabbing figure, but even if it were 95%, would it matter much ?

Pkiernan · 01-11-2018 2:12pm

40% to go!

Roger_007 · 01-11-2018 2:16pm

Silent Running wrote: »

The Earth is currently infected with a virus. It's ravaging the planet and is probably reaching it's peak. It will kill itself when it can no longer tolerate the conditions it has created. The world will then set about repairing the damage the virus has caused. The planet was fine before the virus arrived and it will be fine once it has died off.

We are the virus.

When we eventually wipe ourselves out the cockroaches will take over. They will in their turn fcuk up the planet with overpopulation and piles of cockroach dung pollution. Then the dung beetles will take over will take over and pollute the planet with dung beetle dung..............there is no end to it!

Silent Running · 01-11-2018 2:17pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Calm down Thanos. Hold your horses agent smith.

All life on earth has had an effect on the earth. Oxygen was a trace element but then rapidly increased due to the increase in photosynthetic flora. This is a presumed cause of the first ice age.

The earth has no steady state over time. It’s one giant feedback loop, the earth in its varying trajectories affecting life and life affecting the earth. Then there’s the odd asteroid level extinction event.

Humans are a problem, but hoping for a worldwide genocide is not really a helpful solution. And it won’t happen anyway. If the worst predictions come true the rich will survive.

I'm certainly not hoping for genocide, and the rich might survive, for a while. Remember "rich" is a human concept. A climate that doesn't support human life doesn't give a shit about the rich.

Take a longer view. In the full history of time we, as a species, are but a blink of an eye. It would be supreme hubris to think everything revolves around whether we survive or not. When our blink of an eye is over, something else will prevail.

What we have done with our actions to date doesn't really matter. Unless we make MASSIVE change to our way of doing things from today on, we will be gone sooner rather than later. There is no appetite to make the necessary changes (leave fossil fuels in the ground, move to a plant based diet, stop destroying the planet's lungs, etc) so it's hard to see a positive outcome.

Ah sure climate change is all a conspiracy. It'll be grand. :rolleyes:

JeffKenna · 01-11-2018 2:25pm

Vegans have a lot to answer for here. Forests are being cut down on mass to make room for soy plantations in South America.

Silent Running · 01-11-2018 2:37pm

archer22 wrote: »

Talking about simple things that can be done to help...one never mentioned is if Farmers simply stopped flail mowing their hedgerows down to skeletons.

Nothing can survive through the winter in these hedge remnants and there is no food berries or nothing of value left in them.
This is one of the big causes of bird decline in Ireland...and I can't see what logic there is in any sense to cut hedges like that.

It even deprives the farm animals of shelter from cold winds and rain.

Around here, there's a farmer removing the hedges completely to create bigger fields. He knows it's wrong and seems to be prepared to suck up the fines. He's not short of a few Euros. Pure environmental vandalism.

privateBeavis · 01-11-2018 2:45pm

Silent Running wrote: »

I'm certainly not hoping for genocide, and the rich might survive, for a while. Remember "rich" is a human concept. A climate that doesn't support human life doesn't give a shit about the rich.

Take a longer view. In the full history of time we, as a species, are but a blink of an eye. It would be supreme hubris to think everything revolves around whether we survive or not. When our blink of an eye is over, something else will prevail.

What we have done with our actions to date doesn't really matter. Unless we make MASSIVE change to our way of doing things from today on, we will be gone sooner rather than later. There is no appetite to make the necessary changes (leave fossil fuels in the ground, move to a plant based diet, stop destroying the planet's lungs, etc) so it's hard to see a positive outcome.

Ah sure climate change is all a conspiracy. It'll be grand. :rolleyes:

either AI/Robots or cockroaches!?

shivermetimber · 01-11-2018 2:51pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

Vegans have a lot to answer for here. Forests are being cut down on mass to make room for soy plantations in South America.

Most of it is being used to feed animals. A tiny percentage of worldwide soy production is for human use.

green shoots · 01-11-2018 3:17pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

Vegans have a lot to answer for here. Forests are being cut down on mass to make room for soy plantations in South America.

I'm pretty sure most of it's been used for meat production unfortunately, you can't blame the vegans here.

green shoots · 01-11-2018 3:18pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Of course, we want animals as food, but even worldwide, that doesnt add up to many varieties, and farming them is the way anyway. Obviously, some should be preserved in the likes of zoos etc, and bees or other insects have a role in pollenation, the food chain, and the general ecosystem. But loads of them could probably still be lost yet, and there be no impact.
60% is a headline grabbing figure, but even if it were 95%, would it matter much ?

It matters to me yeah, pretty beautiful planet and creatures and we come along and wipe it all out due to greed. I am finding it hard to rest easy know that I'm contributing and I want to make changes for the better.

Agricola · 01-11-2018 3:27pm

The only answer to our manmade problems is that the alternatives have to be a)cheaper and b) more attractive than the status quo.
A majority of people have to be willing to change and the majority simply won't pay more, or put themselves out in any way, even if our very existence (or other species existence) is at stake.

I'm glad I wasn't around in 1818 and equally glad I wont be around in 2218.

CalamariFritti · 01-11-2018 3:31pm

wexie wrote: »

While I broadly understand the economics behind all of it I still think it is complete and utter madness that it can be economically viable to import a by product from halfway across the world, to feed animals we breed here, for them to be slaughtered and them exported elsewhere....

That just doesn't make any sense if you think about it.

It does when the only thing that matters is the 3.5 cent profit increase in the short term.

Capitalism may work in a way. As in actually get some stuff done. But it is incredibly wasteful at the same time. Incredibly wasteful.

Think of all that sh1t that’s being produced here there and everywhere shipped all over the place. Then used for a short while and rubbished. Stuff that no one needs. Stuff that no one wants in fact. But we created smart methods to make us want it.
All that just to keep the wheels turning for all us hamsters and have some illusion of a better world.
All the while destroying the only one we have.

We’re fvxked really. I think we’re past the point of no return too.

green shoots · 01-11-2018 3:37pm

I am committed to not buying useless plastic crap at Xmas time. All those miniature pool tables and inflatable zimmerframes you buy in Tiger are just going to end up in the sea or in a landfill for 1000s of years. Urgh.
I actually said this to my colleagues last year when that Secret Santa thing was happening, that I don't want in. A few months later the ridiculous gifts were still on all of their desks. Imagine the amount of energy required to make that rubbish.
Yes I know, Bah Humbug etc., and I'm great craic at parties!

Spudmonkey · 01-11-2018 3:42pm

green shoots wrote: »

Can we all commit to not buying useless plastic crap at Xmas time? All those miniature pool tables and inflatable zimmerframes you buy in Tiger are just going to end up in the sea or in a landfill for 1000s of years. Urgh.

Last few years myself and the family have bought each other one book. We used do the stupid presents things for years and then had a load of useless **** that we could do nothing with. I get some strange looks off people when I tell them that's what we do.

RobertKK · 01-11-2018 3:47pm

tigger123 wrote: »

Unless it was Travellers that did it, no one in After Hours cares.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3471454/How-Rhino-horn-gang-small-Irish-town-helped-buy-ran-network-stretching-China-Peru-responsible-raiding-Michael-Flatley-s-mansion.html

The masterminds behind a £57million plot to steal rhino horn and rare artefacts to smuggle to China are part of a £100million worldwide crime syndicate linked to a small Irish town almost entirely owned by travellers.

So they are not excluded from it...

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-11-2018 3:57pm

green shoots wrote: »

I'm pretty sure most of it's been used for meat production unfortunately, you can't blame the vegans here.

Surely if soy is part of the problem then Veganism is part of the problem.

Mooooo · 01-11-2018 4:02pm

green shoots wrote: »

I'm pretty sure most of it's been used for meat production unfortunately, you can't blame the vegans here.

Majority of soy is grown to produce vegetable oil, the leftover meal and hulls are used for animal feed then.

silverharp · 01-11-2018 4:03pm

as long as there are still pigs, pork and bacon

green shoots · 01-11-2018 4:04pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Surely if soy is part of the problem then Veganism is part of the problem.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here, but I'll go with the experts on this one.

Avoiding meat and dairy products is the single biggest way to reduce your environmental impact on the planet, according to the scientists behind the most comprehensive analysis to date of the damage farming does to the planet

green shoots · 01-11-2018 4:06pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Majority of soy is grown to produce vegetable oil, the leftover meal and hulls are used for animal feed then.

Not according to Yale

Soybean meal has become a predominant feedstock for poultry and livestock, accounting for 67% of consumption of global soy production.

globalforestatlas.yale.edu/land-use/industrial-agriculture/soy-agriculture

Mooooo · 01-11-2018 4:08pm

green shoots wrote: »

There is more damage done to the environment by cattle farming and beef production than just the land it takes up. Animal waste, effects on wildlife etc. Our rivers are being contaminated by farmers time and time again. Have a quick google to see how regular occurring this is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production

I think we should look at reforesting some of our lands in Ireland, maybe paying beef farmers to tend to them. But that's never going to happen really is it? What TD would say anything bad about beef production in Ireland? Political suicide.

There are a number of towns discharging untreated sewage directly into water courses. Our wells are in the middle of our farm, tested every year and have been fine. If there is any discharge to a river the council come down like a tonne of bricks on the cause unless it's the town sewage treatment... Again blaming meat and dairy is ignoring all the other issues which are worse.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-11-2018 4:10pm

green shoots wrote: »

I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here, but I'll go with the experts on this one.

Soy isn’t a direct part of the diet of meat eaters and can be replaced by food stuffs not sourced from that area. Ireland is largely pastoral so cattle and sheep at least can be potentially free of soy. Mostly they are grass fed.

Directly eating soy has to be imported.

Mooooo · 01-11-2018 4:13pm

green shoots wrote: »

Not according to Yale

Soybean meal has become a predominant feedstock for poultry and livestock, accounting for 67% of consumption of global soy production.

globalforestatlas.yale.edu/land-use/industrial-agriculture/soy-agriculture

I can't seem to get in to those links. It has become a feedstock because in an individual plant approx 20% is oil content, the remaining 80% is the leftover meal and hulls which are sent for animal feed., the vegetable oil is in in thousands of different processed products. For pigs and poultry it is more common but grass based livestock it is unlikely to make up 1% of the diet.

Humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970

Comments