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Humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970

green shoots

Hi all. I've been checking here the last few days to see if there's a post about this, I find it remarkable how little anyone cares really!
We seem to be destroying our ecosystem, worldwide, and 60% of all wildlife has now perished since the 70s.
Here in Ireland most of our wildlife was wiped out by deforestation and farming a long time ago, but our current super consumer lifestyles has a global impact outside of these lands.
Forests are being cleared in Argentina and Brazil to produce soy which is imported to Europe to feed animals we consume. Our seas are overfished and contaminated with plastic.
It's all really depressing. Look around Ireland and it's one big beef farm with no trees. We are the least forested country in Europe, we have no wilderness, and there's nowhere for wildlife to thrive. This can't be good for the equilibrium of the lands.
So most people seem to say "It's too late there's nothing we can do it'll all sort itself out", or blame Governments. I'm just wondering what the average Irish person is willing to do to help change things? Your Government wont be doing anything any time soon, all they care about is economic expansion for some reason and not the health of the people and planet.
Bear in mind when you're buying tonnes of crap at Xmas, most of it will end up in landfill or the sea. All that plastic rubbish is unnecessary.
I know I'll be lynched for mentioning this, but I gave up red meat and dairy recently, and I feel a lot better for it, and it's really quite easy to do. It would have a massive impact on the planet if we curbed our appetite for meat somewhat.
Am I the only person disturbed by this recent news?

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Deebles McBeebles

Apparently we have a 2 year window to act. So, say goodbye to what's left of the animals now.

Spudmonkey

This has actually been disturbing me lately as well. I brought it up in work and most people had little to no interest. I can't understand how people with kids in particular can be so indifferent to it. This is the world we are leaving for them, one of no diversity.

The changes we'd have to make to our lifestyles are so extreme they would never happen in time. It would be such a shock to the system that there would be widespread disruption. It's so depressing really. Future generations or what remains of them will not judge us our or the generations that preceded us kindly.

tigger123

Unless it was Travellers that did it, no one in After Hours cares.

Billy Mays

Don't believe those numbers. It's a left wing conspiracy, same as global warming etc..

kneemos

Only one species of human.

The humanity.

whiskeyman

For years we've wanted to 'save the planet', but in reality the planet is fine.

We're the ones who are fcuked.
Maybe the green campaign should change to 'Save humanity' instead of 'save the environment', because that's the reality.

I am genuinely fearful for the world we are going to leave to the next generations. The sense of apathy and ultimately desire for instant happiness, consumption and greed will wipe us out.

wexie

Billy Mays wrote: »

Don't believe those numbers. It's a left wing conspiracy, same as global warming etc..

Lets, for arguments sake, go with that and take it for true (it's not).

So there would be a conspiracy to encourage us to consume less, less meat, less plastic, less fossil fuels etc. etc. etc.

Where's the harm? They're all things that make sense in and of their own to do regardless of whether or not this news is true?

SEPT 23 1989

the tasty ones will survive

Mooooo

OP How much of your food, clothes, etc is imported, every part of the car you drive was pulled from the ground and melted shaped etc into what you sit in, bar the leather seats. The fuel you use in it be it battery or oil is mined fromt ground. Soy is grown for the vegetable oil with the leftovers being used for animal feed. Food is being thrown out just because its not used and having the newest gadget while getting rid of the old one for no other reason than the fact a new one is out. Meat and dairy is being made a scapegoat for a lot of climate change brigade but it's rampant consumerism is the problem, on every front. You want more environmentally sustainable food buy local, but it will cost more. Fruit and veg is imported, native growers of veg and all food are getting squeezed by supermarkets to make it cheaper and cheaper. Have a look at how your avocados are produced in Mexico or what happens to old greenhouses in Spain when they change em to grow your fruit and veg

eigrod

Too many of us, too little of them (the animals). Population control is the way forward.

Franz Von Peppercorn

green shoots wrote: »

Hi all. I've been checking here the last few days to see if there's a post about this, I find it remarkable how little anyone cares really!
We seem to be destroying our ecosystem, worldwide, and 60% of all wildlife has now perished since the 70s.
Here in Ireland most of our wildlife was wiped out by deforestation and farming a long time ago, but our current super consumer lifestyles has a global impact outside of these lands.
Forests are being cleared in Argentina and Brazil to produce soy which is imported to Europe to feed animals we consume. Our seas are overfished and contaminated with plastic.
It's all really depressing. Look around Ireland and it's one big beef farm with no trees. We are the least forested country in Europe, we have no wilderness, and there's nowhere for wildlife to thrive. This can't be good for the equilibrium of the lands.
So most people seem to say "It's too late there's nothing we can do it'll all sort itself out", or blame Governments. I'm just wondering what the average Irish person is willing to do to help change things? Your Government wont be doing anything any time soon, all they care about is economic expansion for some reason and not the health of the people and planet.
Bear in mind when you're buying tonnes of crap at Xmas, most of it will end up in landfill or the sea. All that plastic rubbish is unnecessary.
I know I'll be lynched for mentioning this, but I gave up red meat and dairy recently, and I feel a lot better for it, and it's really quite easy to do. It would have a massive impact on the planet if we curbed our appetite for meat somewhat.
Am I the only person disturbed by this recent news?

It would be fairly easy to ban soy (sorry vegans). Irish beef is largely grass fed summer and winter and extra feed could be sourced locally.

It’s true that Ireland is largely pasture based but that’s been the case for centuries if not millennia.

archer22

The sad reality is that most people don't care...selfishness and greed are the hallmarks of humanity.

And Governments will move trillions of dollars of military equipment to fight some war for control of oil.

But not put a single predator drone in the air to protect the last of the Elephants, Rhinos and big cats etc.

i71jskz5xu42pb

wexie wrote: »

Lets, for arguments sake, go with that and take it for true (it's not).

So there would be a conspiracy to encourage us to consume less, less meat, less plastic, less fossil fuels etc. etc. etc.

Where's the harm? They're all things that make sense in and of their own to do regardless of whether or not this news is true?

wexie

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It would be fairly easy to ban soy (sorry vegans). Irish beef is largely grass fed summer and winter and extra feed could be sourced locally.

I don't think there's a need to ban it, soy has been around for a lot longer than the problems it's currently causing, same goes for palm oil.

What should be banned is the way it's being produced in an unsustainable manner. Of course that would mean prices would go up and we can't be having that of course can we :mad:

Like Mooo said above, it's the consumerism and greed that's at the base of all of this. The idea that we need new clothes, cars, gadgets etc. etc. etc. on a regular basis.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Here is some info on this matter.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/we-depend-two-times-more-on-imported-animal-feed-than-our-neighbours-832683.html

Much imported feed is for the poultry and pig sector. If you don't see the animals they are probably indoors. Its possible in fact to eat red meat and have (probably) less effect on the Amazonian forests than a vegan diet. I would have thought that sheep were a fairly environmentally safe options, particularly the local ones perambulating the hills.

wexie

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Here is some info on that matter.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/we-depend-two-times-more-on-imported-animal-feed-than-our-neighbours-832683.html

While I broadly understand the economics behind all of it I still think it is complete and utter madness that it can be economically viable to import a by product from halfway across the world, to feed animals we breed here, for them to be slaughtered and them exported elsewhere....

That just doesn't make any sense if you think about it.

Franz Von Peppercorn

wexie wrote: »

I don't think there's a need to ban it, soy has been around for a lot longer than the problems it's currently causing, same goes for palm oil.

What should be banned is the way it's being produced in an unsustainable manner. Of course that would mean prices would go up and we can't be having that of course can we :mad:

Like Mooo said above, it's the consumerism and greed that's at the base of all of this. The idea that we need new clothes, cars, gadgets etc. etc. etc. on a regular basis.

Ireland can't ban unsustainable production of soy in Brazil, thats up to Brazil. All we can do is ( with the EU) stop or reduce the imports.

The other stuff you mentioned may or may not be having this effect on the rain forests and the drop in animal populations. Certainly plastic is an issue and should be reduced or banned over time. Fishing needs to be curtailed, even more. Some gadgets source material from bad regimes, or mines in Africa but Im not sure of the effect on the animal population, because these mines are in general not in those kinds of areas.

Most of the reductions in the wild animal population seem to be, as you would expect, in or around the areas of South America and other developing countries that haven't yet been industrialised or exposed to the market, and have more untouched environmental systems. To help them we would need to actually make it economically viable for the country and the locals to not slash and burn. The carrot could be money, the stick could be tariffs

Franz Von Peppercorn

wexie wrote: »

While I broadly understand the economics behind all of it I still think it is complete and utter madness that it can be economically viable to import a by product from halfway across the world, to feed animals we breed here, for them to be slaughtered and them exported elsewhere....

That just doesn't make any sense if you think about it.

Sure, but Irish agriculture could quite possibly survive without feed stuffs, American agriculture probably couldn't.

maybe Dev was right?

Mooooo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Sure, but Irish agriculture could quite possibly survive without feed stuffs, American agriculture probably couldn't.

maybe Dev was right?

It could survive the same as here, the US can grow there own feeds and have areas of grassland as well, output would reduce and cost go up depending on how it's all done of course. Grass is our protein source, our climate isn't suitable for some crops and can be too wet too often to grow food grade crops as well as more susceptible to fungus and other things than other parts of the world. Livestock are the way to utilise the grass which is the most durable crop we grow here

green shoots

Mooooo wrote: »

OP How much of your food, clothes, etc is imported, every part of the car you drive was pulled from the ground and melted shaped etc into what you sit in, bar the leather seats. The fuel you use in it be it battery or oil is mined fromt ground. Soy is grown for the vegetable oil with the leftovers being used for animal feed. Food is being thrown out just because its not used and having the newest gadget while getting rid of the old one for no other reason than the fact a new one is out. Meat and dairy is being made a scapegoat for a lot of climate change brigade but it's rampant consumerism is the problem, on every front. You want more environmentally sustainable food buy local, but it will cost more. Fruit and veg is imported, native growers of veg and all food are getting squeezed by supermarkets to make it cheaper and cheaper. Have a look at how your avocados are produced in Mexico or what happens to old greenhouses in Spain when they change em to grow your fruit and veg

I'm aware of all this. I can't help feeling guilty when I buy anything these days, it's horrible!
Regarding the Spanish bread basket - they grow a lot of vegetables all year round that can't be produced here outside of the warmer months. I used to work in Southern Spain for a few years and yes vast swathes of the land is covered in plastic tents, that aren't disposed of properly. That's not the half of it, plastic waste is strewn across Southern Spain everywhere, it's shocking. Bottles, covers for vegetables, all sorts. They do a lot of things right in Spain but it's absolutely filthy down in the southern regions.
However, we need Spain to produce vegetables, it feeds half of Europe, we just need it done in a more sustainable way. Anyone who saw Simon Reeves there the other night on the Mediterranean documentary will know the damage it's doing. The land is mostly arid and the weather makes for perfect growing under those tents, but something has to change to get it right.
Lately I've simplified my diet. I can eat a piece of turkey for e.g. for dinner (probably fed on imported soy, I know!), some potatoes, and brocolli. All produced here in Eire. I've had similar to that all week for dinner. All of those ingredients are produced locally. I usually just have oats for breakfast and salad for lunch. I think we've gotten too complicated with foods these days, it would probably be healthier if we had less options!

green shoots

Mooooo wrote: »

It could survive the same as here, the US can grow there own feeds and have areas of grassland as well, output would reduce and cost go up depending on how it's all done of course. Grass is our protein source, our climate isn't suitable for some crops and can be too wet too often to grow food grade crops as well as more susceptible to fungus and other things than other parts of the world. Livestock are the way to utilise the grass which is the most durable crop we grow here

There is more damage done to the environment by cattle farming and beef production than just the land it takes up. Animal waste, effects on wildlife etc. Our rivers are being contaminated by farmers time and time again. Have a quick google to see how regular occurring this is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production

I think we should look at reforesting some of our lands in Ireland, maybe paying beef farmers to tend to them. But that's never going to happen really is it? What TD would say anything bad about beef production in Ireland? Political suicide.

The_Kew_Tour

99.99% of Living things that have graced this planet are now extint

looksee

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-46039996

What we can do does seem pretty insignificant compared with what a single person can do in a country - as reported about Brazil's new president, or the climate deniers in the US.

Still, there are things we can do as individuals - just stop buying single use plastic bottles of water and other drinks for a start. A miniscule contribution to the effort, but its a start. Its very difficult not to buy packaging but if you do, recycle it properly. When you can, buy things with less packaging.

After the war years it was considered pretty much sinful to waste food; gradually this has changed and food is treated with much less respect - eat the stuff you have in the fridge in sequence so it doesn't go off before you get to it, if you find you are throwing a particular foodstuff away, stop buying it.

We managed to change our public mindset fairly quickly with the plastic bag charge and the ban on smoking; everyone who speaks against waste and destruction will help swing the pendulum and keep the world habitable. There will always be those few who would rather make a smart remark than stir themselves to make an effort, they need to be the minority, so if you have a view on what can be done, express it.

Silent Running

The Earth is currently infected with a virus. It's ravaging the planet and is probably reaching it's peak. It will kill itself when it can no longer tolerate the conditions it has created. The world will then set about repairing the damage the virus has caused. The planet was fine before the virus arrived and it will be fine once it has died off.

We are the virus.

Kuva

Some of the original guys that wrote about the climate/damage we were doing changed careers and went into psysology to see if they could understand why no one gave a f0ck.

They wrote a paper after, it's out there.

It's been to late now for a long time, all you can hope for now is you live in a place that won't kill you as things get worse, the guys above moved to new Zealand (where most billionaires are buying up everything and have always ready to go, go bags just incase, in reality though it won't save them though from the hoardes of climate refugees that's coming, they're coming by truck with all their stuff) and Scandinavia.

Atmospheric climate seeding has to come yet.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Silent Running wrote: »

The Earth is currently infected with a virus. It's ravaging the planet and is probably reaching it's peak. It will kill itself when it can no longer tolerate the conditions it has created. The world will then set about repairing the damage the virus has caused. The planet was fine before the virus arrived and it will be fine once it has died off.

We are the virus.

Calm down Thanos. Hold your horses agent smith.

All life on earth has had an effect on the earth. Oxygen was a trace element but then rapidly increased due to the increase in photosynthetic flora. This is a presumed cause of the first ice age.

The earth has no steady state over time. It’s one giant feedback loop, the earth in its varying trajectories affecting life and life affecting the earth. Then there’s the odd asteroid level extinction event.

Humans are a problem, but hoping for a worldwide genocide is not really a helpful solution. And it won’t happen anyway. If the worst predictions come true the rich will survive.

archer22

Talking about simple things that can be done to help...one never mentioned is if Farmers simply stopped flail mowing their hedgerows down to skeletons.

Nothing can survive through the winter in these hedge remnants and there is no food berries or nothing of value left in them.
This is one of the big causes of bird decline in Ireland...and I can't see what logic there is in any sense to cut hedges like that.

It even deprives the farm animals of shelter from cold winds and rain.

The Rape of Lucretia

green shoots wrote: »

Hi all. I've been checking here the last few days to see if there's a post about this, I find it remarkable how little anyone cares really!
We seem to be destroying our ecosystem, worldwide, and 60% of all wildlife has now perished since the 70s.

Its only really a worry if compared to what percentage of them we need to allow us survive. Are there any stats on that, and how much it could reduce, yet not impact humans?

Of course, we want animals as food, but even worldwide, that doesnt add up to many varieties, and farming them is the way anyway. Obviously, some should be preserved in the likes of zoos etc, and bees or other insects have a role in pollenation, the food chain, and the general ecosystem. But loads of them could probably still be lost yet, and there be no impact.
60% is a headline grabbing figure, but even if it were 95%, would it matter much ?

Pkiernan

40% to go!

Roger_007

Silent Running wrote: »

The Earth is currently infected with a virus. It's ravaging the planet and is probably reaching it's peak. It will kill itself when it can no longer tolerate the conditions it has created. The world will then set about repairing the damage the virus has caused. The planet was fine before the virus arrived and it will be fine once it has died off.

We are the virus.

When we eventually wipe ourselves out the cockroaches will take over. They will in their turn fcuk up the planet with overpopulation and piles of cockroach dung pollution. Then the dung beetles will take over will take over and pollute the planet with dung beetle dung..............there is no end to it!