Humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970

Silent Running · 01-11-2018 02:17PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Calm down Thanos. Hold your horses agent smith.

All life on earth has had an effect on the earth. Oxygen was a trace element but then rapidly increased due to the increase in photosynthetic flora. This is a presumed cause of the first ice age.

The earth has no steady state over time. It’s one giant feedback loop, the earth in its varying trajectories affecting life and life affecting the earth. Then there’s the odd asteroid level extinction event.

Humans are a problem, but hoping for a worldwide genocide is not really a helpful solution. And it won’t happen anyway. If the worst predictions come true the rich will survive.

I'm certainly not hoping for genocide, and the rich might survive, for a while. Remember "rich" is a human concept. A climate that doesn't support human life doesn't give a shit about the rich.

Take a longer view. In the full history of time we, as a species, are but a blink of an eye. It would be supreme hubris to think everything revolves around whether we survive or not. When our blink of an eye is over, something else will prevail.

What we have done with our actions to date doesn't really matter. Unless we make MASSIVE change to our way of doing things from today on, we will be gone sooner rather than later. There is no appetite to make the necessary changes (leave fossil fuels in the ground, move to a plant based diet, stop destroying the planet's lungs, etc) so it's hard to see a positive outcome.

Ah sure climate change is all a conspiracy. It'll be grand. :rolleyes:

JeffKenna · 01-11-2018 02:25PM

Vegans have a lot to answer for here. Forests are being cut down on mass to make room for soy plantations in South America.

Silent Running · 01-11-2018 02:37PM

archer22 wrote: »

Talking about simple things that can be done to help...one never mentioned is if Farmers simply stopped flail mowing their hedgerows down to skeletons.

Nothing can survive through the winter in these hedge remnants and there is no food berries or nothing of value left in them.
This is one of the big causes of bird decline in Ireland...and I can't see what logic there is in any sense to cut hedges like that.

It even deprives the farm animals of shelter from cold winds and rain.

Around here, there's a farmer removing the hedges completely to create bigger fields. He knows it's wrong and seems to be prepared to suck up the fines. He's not short of a few Euros. Pure environmental vandalism.

privateBeavis · 01-11-2018 02:45PM

Silent Running wrote: »

I'm certainly not hoping for genocide, and the rich might survive, for a while. Remember "rich" is a human concept. A climate that doesn't support human life doesn't give a shit about the rich.

Take a longer view. In the full history of time we, as a species, are but a blink of an eye. It would be supreme hubris to think everything revolves around whether we survive or not. When our blink of an eye is over, something else will prevail.

What we have done with our actions to date doesn't really matter. Unless we make MASSIVE change to our way of doing things from today on, we will be gone sooner rather than later. There is no appetite to make the necessary changes (leave fossil fuels in the ground, move to a plant based diet, stop destroying the planet's lungs, etc) so it's hard to see a positive outcome.

Ah sure climate change is all a conspiracy. It'll be grand. :rolleyes:

either AI/Robots or cockroaches!?

shivermetimber · 01-11-2018 02:51PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

Vegans have a lot to answer for here. Forests are being cut down on mass to make room for soy plantations in South America.

Most of it is being used to feed animals. A tiny percentage of worldwide soy production is for human use.

green shoots · 01-11-2018 03:17PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

Vegans have a lot to answer for here. Forests are being cut down on mass to make room for soy plantations in South America.

I'm pretty sure most of it's been used for meat production unfortunately, you can't blame the vegans here.

green shoots · 01-11-2018 03:18PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Of course, we want animals as food, but even worldwide, that doesnt add up to many varieties, and farming them is the way anyway. Obviously, some should be preserved in the likes of zoos etc, and bees or other insects have a role in pollenation, the food chain, and the general ecosystem. But loads of them could probably still be lost yet, and there be no impact.
60% is a headline grabbing figure, but even if it were 95%, would it matter much ?

It matters to me yeah, pretty beautiful planet and creatures and we come along and wipe it all out due to greed. I am finding it hard to rest easy know that I'm contributing and I want to make changes for the better.

Agricola · 01-11-2018 03:27PM

The only answer to our manmade problems is that the alternatives have to be a)cheaper and b) more attractive than the status quo.
A majority of people have to be willing to change and the majority simply won't pay more, or put themselves out in any way, even if our very existence (or other species existence) is at stake.

I'm glad I wasn't around in 1818 and equally glad I wont be around in 2218.

CalamariFritti · 01-11-2018 03:31PM

wexie wrote: »

While I broadly understand the economics behind all of it I still think it is complete and utter madness that it can be economically viable to import a by product from halfway across the world, to feed animals we breed here, for them to be slaughtered and them exported elsewhere....

That just doesn't make any sense if you think about it.

It does when the only thing that matters is the 3.5 cent profit increase in the short term.

Capitalism may work in a way. As in actually get some stuff done. But it is incredibly wasteful at the same time. Incredibly wasteful.

Think of all that sh1t that’s being produced here there and everywhere shipped all over the place. Then used for a short while and rubbished. Stuff that no one needs. Stuff that no one wants in fact. But we created smart methods to make us want it.
All that just to keep the wheels turning for all us hamsters and have some illusion of a better world.
All the while destroying the only one we have.

We’re fvxked really. I think we’re past the point of no return too.

green shoots · 01-11-2018 03:37PM

I am committed to not buying useless plastic crap at Xmas time. All those miniature pool tables and inflatable zimmerframes you buy in Tiger are just going to end up in the sea or in a landfill for 1000s of years. Urgh.
I actually said this to my colleagues last year when that Secret Santa thing was happening, that I don't want in. A few months later the ridiculous gifts were still on all of their desks. Imagine the amount of energy required to make that rubbish.
Yes I know, Bah Humbug etc., and I'm great craic at parties!

Spudmonkey · 01-11-2018 03:42PM

green shoots wrote: »

Can we all commit to not buying useless plastic crap at Xmas time? All those miniature pool tables and inflatable zimmerframes you buy in Tiger are just going to end up in the sea or in a landfill for 1000s of years. Urgh.

Last few years myself and the family have bought each other one book. We used do the stupid presents things for years and then had a load of useless **** that we could do nothing with. I get some strange looks off people when I tell them that's what we do.

RobertKK · 01-11-2018 03:47PM

tigger123 wrote: »

Unless it was Travellers that did it, no one in After Hours cares.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3471454/How-Rhino-horn-gang-small-Irish-town-helped-buy-ran-network-stretching-China-Peru-responsible-raiding-Michael-Flatley-s-mansion.html

The masterminds behind a £57million plot to steal rhino horn and rare artefacts to smuggle to China are part of a £100million worldwide crime syndicate linked to a small Irish town almost entirely owned by travellers.

So they are not excluded from it...

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-11-2018 03:57PM

green shoots wrote: »

I'm pretty sure most of it's been used for meat production unfortunately, you can't blame the vegans here.

Surely if soy is part of the problem then Veganism is part of the problem.

Mooooo · 01-11-2018 04:02PM

green shoots wrote: »

I'm pretty sure most of it's been used for meat production unfortunately, you can't blame the vegans here.

Majority of soy is grown to produce vegetable oil, the leftover meal and hulls are used for animal feed then.

silverharp · 01-11-2018 04:03PM

as long as there are still pigs, pork and bacon

green shoots · 01-11-2018 04:04PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Surely if soy is part of the problem then Veganism is part of the problem.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here, but I'll go with the experts on this one.

Avoiding meat and dairy products is the single biggest way to reduce your environmental impact on the planet, according to the scientists behind the most comprehensive analysis to date of the damage farming does to the planet

green shoots · 01-11-2018 04:06PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Majority of soy is grown to produce vegetable oil, the leftover meal and hulls are used for animal feed then.

Not according to Yale

Soybean meal has become a predominant feedstock for poultry and livestock, accounting for 67% of consumption of global soy production.

globalforestatlas.yale.edu/land-use/industrial-agriculture/soy-agriculture

Mooooo · 01-11-2018 04:08PM

green shoots wrote: »

There is more damage done to the environment by cattle farming and beef production than just the land it takes up. Animal waste, effects on wildlife etc. Our rivers are being contaminated by farmers time and time again. Have a quick google to see how regular occurring this is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production

I think we should look at reforesting some of our lands in Ireland, maybe paying beef farmers to tend to them. But that's never going to happen really is it? What TD would say anything bad about beef production in Ireland? Political suicide.

There are a number of towns discharging untreated sewage directly into water courses. Our wells are in the middle of our farm, tested every year and have been fine. If there is any discharge to a river the council come down like a tonne of bricks on the cause unless it's the town sewage treatment... Again blaming meat and dairy is ignoring all the other issues which are worse.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-11-2018 04:10PM

green shoots wrote: »

I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here, but I'll go with the experts on this one.

Soy isn’t a direct part of the diet of meat eaters and can be replaced by food stuffs not sourced from that area. Ireland is largely pastoral so cattle and sheep at least can be potentially free of soy. Mostly they are grass fed.

Directly eating soy has to be imported.

Mooooo · 01-11-2018 04:13PM

green shoots wrote: »

Not according to Yale

Soybean meal has become a predominant feedstock for poultry and livestock, accounting for 67% of consumption of global soy production.

globalforestatlas.yale.edu/land-use/industrial-agriculture/soy-agriculture

I can't seem to get in to those links. It has become a feedstock because in an individual plant approx 20% is oil content, the remaining 80% is the leftover meal and hulls which are sent for animal feed., the vegetable oil is in in thousands of different processed products. For pigs and poultry it is more common but grass based livestock it is unlikely to make up 1% of the diet.

green shoots · 01-11-2018 05:04PM

Mooooo wrote: »

I can't seem to get in to those links. It has become a feedstock because in an individual plant approx 20% is oil content, the remaining 80% is the leftover meal and hulls which are sent for animal feed., the vegetable oil is in in thousands of different processed products. For pigs and poultry it is more common but grass based livestock it is unlikely to make up 1% of the diet.

It wont let paste links. Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a Meat V Vegan argument. I'm no expert in these things but the general consensus now seems to be that moving to a more plant based diet is healthier for the environment. Whether that's more true in some countries rather than others I don't know, but across the world we would be better off, cutting down at least.
I just wish people were a bit more mindful when buying things. There's absolutely no reason for bottled water to exist in this country for e.g. Fresh sell f**king Fiji water, water imported all the way from the middle of the Pacific.

wexie · 01-11-2018 05:15PM

green shoots wrote: »

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a Meat V Vegan argument. I'm no expert in these things but the general consensus now seems to be that moving to a more plant based diet is healthier for the environment. Whether that's more true in some countries rather than others I don't know, but across the world we would be better off, cutting down at least.

While I'm quite happy to accept that I think it's important to point out that this is not because of the act of eating meat, it's because how we produce our meat ie. factory farming, importing animal feeds etc. etc. shipping animals all over the place.

green shoots wrote: »

I just wish people were a bit more mindful when buying things. There's absolutely no reason for bottled water to exist in this country for e.g. Fresh sell f**king Fiji water, water imported all the way from the middle of the Pacific.

It's marketing innit? Who doesn't want to live the dream of being rubbed all over with oil by a gorgeous Pacific beauty, never mind that you're drinking this water stuck on the Luas surrounded by cheap deodorant, guinness farts and Goodfella's pizza burps, you're living the dream cause you've got Fijian water!!!

silverharp · 01-11-2018 05:16PM

green shoots wrote: »

It wont let paste links. Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a Meat V Vegan argument. I'm no expert in these things but the general consensus now seems to be that moving to a more plant based diet is healthier for the environment. Whether that's more true in some countries rather than others I don't know, but across the world we would be better off, cutting down at least.
I just wish people were a bit more mindful when buying things. There's absolutely no reason for bottled water to exist in this country for e.g. Fresh sell f**king Fiji water, water imported all the way from the middle of the Pacific.

even that depends, grain areas end up with depleted soils, grass fed beef and dairy wouldn’t deplete the soils so much. I think the consumer would be better off if grain fed animals were to disappear for sure, but generally this push to an industrialised grain based food chain isnt good for people’s health or the land.

green shoots · 01-11-2018 05:21PM

wexie wrote: »

While I'm quite happy to accept that I think it's important to point out that this is not because of the act of eating meat, it's because how we produce our meat ie. factory farming, importing animal feeds etc. etc. shipping animals all over the place.

I think we do this because of the amount of meat that we eat nowadays though. I was in Dunnes at lunch and there were 3 kids around 15 eating half a chicken each, they cost 2.95 I think from the deli. And kids eating chicken fillet rolls for lunch every day.
When I was in secondary school in the 90s it was jam sandwiches or crisps or a thin slice of ham if you were lucky, whatever your ma gave you really!
We grew up ok anyway! I just think we need to reduce our intake, that's all. And stop buying so much plastic crap.
I wish a store opened here where you could buy everything packaging free. I'm sick to death of all the stuff I get through even when being mindful of it.

facehugger99 · 01-11-2018 05:32PM

So basically, it sounds like we're winning?

wexie · 01-11-2018 05:33PM

green shoots wrote: »

I just think we need to reduce our intake, that's all. And stop buying so much plastic crap.

Yup, couldn't agree more. And then be more mindful of how what we do consume is produced.

green shoots wrote: »

I wish a store opened here where you could buy everything packaging free. I'm sick to death of all the stuff I get through even when being mindful of it.

Ironically enough I'd say that H&S policies have probably made that entirely impossible....

green shoots · 01-11-2018 05:54PM

wexie wrote: »

Yup, couldn't agree more. And then be more mindful of how what we do consume is produced.

Ironically enough I'd say that H&S policies have probably made that entirely impossible....

I think there may be such a shop in Cork, someone mentioned it to me...

green shoots · 01-11-2018 05:55PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

So basically, it sounds like we're winning?

Winning what?

facehugger99 · 01-11-2018 06:18PM

green shoots wrote: »

Winning what?

The war of course

pwurple · 01-11-2018 06:38PM

We are consumer-bots though. I mean really, who needs a car every 3-4 years, but that's what some people seem to do with PCP. What's that about?

And don't get me started on seasonal decor. Has anyone seen this? Duvet set, plates and cutlery, vases... specific to Christmas, Halloween, Springtime, Summer. So the drive is to "update" your homeware every few months. Even down to fairy lights. I saw pumpkin and ghost fairy lights being hawked. Seasonal cushions lads. Come on. I'm all for having some craic, but absolutely no need for that.

Imported food. There's no end to it.

Fast fashion , it's hard going finding something just... basic? Like a good quality white shirt that washes well. And kids too, they grow, and the quality of stuff is so poor, that they wear through stuff as well. I'm able to do some basic repairs, but crikey.

So oddly, it's surprisingly expensive to be a non-consumer in a western society!
And then back to your day to day... it's actually fairly difficult to practice reduced consumption.A lot of our day to day items are effectively throw-away in the first place. We had to replace a roof a few years ago, the joists were damaged. It cost us more money to take the (perfectly good) slates off the roof, stack them, and put those back on the roof when the joists were done, than it would have cost to chuck the lot into landfill and buy new ones. Labour was more expensive than the materials you see. It takes longer to stack, than it does to fire into a skip. Now, we sucked it up, paid the extra dosh for the principle of it, we couldn't stomach the waste. but most of our family and friends thought we were nuts.
I've started looking for reviews and brands of products that are built to last. They are of course more expensive, but the idea is that over their lifetime, it lasts longer, or can be handed down to your kids.
Buy Me Once

Humanity has wiped out 60% of animal populations since 1970

Comments