So who's going to see the Pope?

Zebra3 · 20-09-2018 10:34am

Main thing is just to keep the money flowing in.

ohnonotgmail · 20-09-2018 10:35am

Christy42 wrote: »

OK the devil trying to uncover sins is obviously horrific and evil statement.

However why surprise at the Pope believing in the devil. I mean he believes in God which is about as logical as believing in the Devil. Frequently they are paired up and I would be surprised if the pope did not believe in the devil really!

you might think it is obvious but belief in the devil as an physical being is not a given. It is usually employed metaphorically. But the pope is a jesuit and they tend to do their own theological thing.

Christy42 · 20-09-2018 5:26pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Christy42 wrote: »

However why surprise at the Pope believing in the devil.

Catholicism is complicated.

Ordinary joe soaps in the church pews believe all sorts of nonsense about the power of prayer, holy water, the child of prague, Medjugore, secrets of Fatima, the BVM statue on the wall with the flickery electric bulb, on and on. There is even folk religion from pre-christian times still practiced, like tying tat to bushes at holy wells.

A Catholic theologian at a seminary will believe absolutely none of that. Not a feckin word. Yet it is nominally the same religion, and the hierarchy are careful not to step on the stupid beliefs of the ignorant where possible.

I am surprised that someone can rise to be Pope and still believe the simple-minded stuff like the Devil literally walking the Earth.

To be fair I would not call it simple minded. For me belief in God, the Devil, holy water etc. are about as logical as each other. Granted you may believe in some without the rest but the same leap of faith is required.

However I did not realise theologians had stopped going for Lucifer as as real as God so thank you for that tit bit.

realdanbreen · 21-09-2018 8:34am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Catholicism is complicated.

Ordinary joe soaps in the church pews believe all sorts of nonsense about the power of prayer, holy water, the child of prague, Medjugore, secrets of Fatima, the BVM statue on the wall with the flickery electric bulb, on and on. There is even folk religion from pre-christian times still practiced, like tying tat to bushes at holy wells.

Sounds like you were reared in a very strict/orthodox catholic environment.

Zubeneschamali · 21-09-2018 9:43am

realdanbreen wrote: »

Sounds like you were reared in a very strict/orthodox catholic environment.

Yes, Ireland.

Sycamore Tree · 21-09-2018 12:14pm

I was talking to someone from Order of Malta and she reckoned the numbers in Knock were very poor. People with tickets just didn't bother turning up.

BattleCorp · 21-09-2018 1:03pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I was talking to someone from Order of Malta and she reckoned the numbers in Knock were very poor. People with tickets just didn't bother turning up.

To be fair, you wouldn't put a milk bottle out in the weather early that morning. I did my best to convince my Mam not to go due to the weather but she ignored me as usual. :pac:

Old people got tickets to go see the pope expecting it to be handy enough to go see the Pope like they did 30 years ago, forgetting that they 30 years older. They then heard for months about all about walking for up to 8 km, standing for hours, makeshift morgues etc. The sh1te was frightened out of them.

So that, combined with the weather stopped an awful lot of people going.

But that wasn't the only reason. The demand for tickets wasn't as great as expected. My local parish got about 10 extra tickets in case anybody else wanted to go on the bus and only 3 of them got used. Therefore 7 tickets were wasted. If most parishes did this, then that would lead to a lot of unused tickets.

volchitsa · 21-09-2018 11:29pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Sounds like you were reared in a very strict/orthodox catholic environment.

Just about any Irish person over the age of about 45 was reared in that environment. I certainly was and so were all my school friends. Most of their parents were even more religious than mine. How old are you?

Jimmy. · 21-09-2018 11:35pm

volchitsa wrote: »

Just about any Irish person over the age of about 45 was reared in that environment. I certainly was and so were all my school friends. Most of their parents were even more religious than mine. How old are you?

Cling film johnnies?

volchitsa · 21-09-2018 11:43pm

Jimmy. wrote: »

Cling film johnnies?

Sorry, no idea what you mean.

We were in Northern Ireland, so AFAIAA contraception was available, for married couples anyway, but judging by the size of families, most of our parents didon't seem to have been keen on going against the church and using any.

When I got to needing contraception myself some years later, I was quizzed by the woman in the local FPA (she was of course a catholic) about how long I had known this boy and other nonsense. If I'd had a bit more wit I'd have told her to p1ss off and mind her own business.

FrancieBrady · 23-09-2018 12:36am

volchitsa wrote: »

Sorry, no idea what you mean.

We were in Northern Ireland, so AFAIAA contraception was available, for married couples anyway, but judging by the size of families, most of our parents didon't seem to have been keen on going against the church and using any.

When I got to needing contraception myself some years later, I was quizzed by the woman in the local FPA (she was of course a catholic) about how long I had known this boy and other nonsense. If I'd had a bit more wit I'd have told her to p1ss off and mind her own business.

I'm in my mid 50's and I would say it's a 70-30 split among my peers as to how we inherited values.

I know a few who still believe in what their parents did, but most have thrown off all of it and lead secular lives. Too many of them pay lip service though and do the holy communion and confirmation stuff while not believing any of it.

Sycamore Tree · 23-09-2018 10:13am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm in my mid 50's and I would say it's a 70-30 split among my peers as to how we inherited values.

I know a few who still believe in what their parents did, but most have thrown off all of it and lead secular lives. Too many of them pay lip service though and do the holy communion and confirmation stuff while not believing any of it.

I am approaching my 50s and so many of my friends are the same - it's hypocrisy to be honest. However I have noticed in the last few years that they are regretting not taking a stand and a little embarrassed at making their kids members of an organisation that continues to ignore it's massive dysfunctional flaws (to put it lightly) when it comes to the welfare of children and openness/honesty. The fact is that none of my friends would leave their children alone with a priest for 5 seconds.

Edward M · 23-09-2018 6:52pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I am approaching my 50s and so many of my friends are the same - it's hypocrisy to be honest. However I have noticed in the last few years that they are regretting not taking a stand and a little embarrassed at making their kids members of an organisation that continues to ignore it's massive dysfunctional flaws (to put it lightly) when it comes to the welfare of children and openness/honesty. The fact is that none of my friends would leave their children alone with a priest for 5 seconds.

Not even one they know?
I imagine no parent would leave their child with any stranger for 5 mins, generalising it to priests would be disingenuous.

Edward M · 23-09-2018 7:00pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm in my mid 50's and I would say it's a 70-30 split among my peers as to how we inherited values.

I know a few who still believe in what their parents did, but most have thrown off all of it and lead secular lives. Too many of them pay lip service though and do the holy communion and confirmation stuff while not believing any of it.

That's true enough.
The mass and communion are sometimes just an excuse to trapse up the aisle in your finery for your neighbours to admire.
The schools promote the early sacraments and ready classes for them, they mean little to the children either but as a class they get to have a special day out, its a celebration for them, but until such time as its taken out of the schools then it will continue.
I think if it became an out of school class and learning experience more families would not participate in it.

ToddyDoody · 23-09-2018 7:30pm

Now that the dust has settled, it really makes you look at the original pope monument in a different light. You'd be laughed out of it if you suggested building something of a comparable scale for the recent visit.

Zubeneschamali · 23-09-2018 10:50pm

That bloody cross in the park went up without planning because it was just for the visit. But the visit was a huge success so they kept it. Always annoyed me.

Peregrinus · 25-09-2018 7:38am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That bloody cross in the park went up without planning because it was just for the visit. But the visit was a huge success so they kept it. Always annoyed me.

I seem to remember that retention permission was granted some time in the early '80s. But don't quote me on that.

There's a currently open petition on change.org calling for its removal, if you're still pissed off.

realdanbreen · 25-09-2018 8:02am

volchitsa wrote: »

Just about any Irish person over the age of about 45 was reared in that environment. I certainly was and so were all my school friends. Most of their parents were even more religious than mine. How old are you?

I was fortunate to be reared by a strong willed woman who would not be dictated to by any individual male or female, cleric or lay.

volchitsa · 25-09-2018 11:19am

realdanbreen wrote: »

I was fortunate to be reared by a strong willed woman who would not be dictated to by any individual male or female, cleric or lay.

That doesn't answer the question. Unless you lived in a cave, anyone that age would have been aware of the surrounding ethos - all the more so if their parents were at odds with it, as mine, to some extent, were.

realdanbreen · 26-09-2018 8:14am

Edward M wrote: »

That's true enough.
The mass and communion are sometimes just an excuse to trapse up the aisle in your finery for your neighbours to admire.

I don't know what part of the country you live in but it appears to be stuck in some kind of 1950's timewarp.

Sycamore Tree · 26-09-2018 8:23am

realdanbreen wrote: »

Edward M wrote: »

That's true enough.
The mass and communion are sometimes just an excuse to trapse up the aisle in your finery for your neighbours to admire.

I don't know what part of the country you live in but it appears to be stuck in some kind of 1950's timewarp.

Bull**** and you bloody well know it, you're just trying to act the eejit.

Most parents push their children to do communion and make a big deal of it even though they aren't religious. Thankfully more and more are opting out but it's very difficult due to the dominance of religious ethos schools. Get religion out of school and the farce will cease.

realdanbreen · 26-09-2018 8:23am

volchitsa wrote: »

That doesn't answer the question. Unless you lived in a cave, anyone that age would have been aware of the surrounding ethos - all the more so if their parents were at odds with it, as mine, to some extent, were.

No I never lived in a cave. You said earlier that 'if you had a bit more wit' you MIGHT have done things differently. As I said earlier I was fortunate to be reared in a family that had the balls to stand up to any outside interference. You can of course go boo hoo, poor me , the bad Catholic lady quizzed me, boo hoo, and feel sorry for yourself if you wish.

volchitsa · 26-09-2018 1:22pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

No I never lived in a cave. You said earlier that 'if you had a bit more wit' you MIGHT have done things differently. As I said earlier I was fortunate to be reared in a family that had the balls to stand up to any outside interference. You can of course go boo hoo, poor me , the bad Catholic lady quizzed me, boo hoo, and feel sorry for yourself if you wish.

You seem not only to have grown up in a parallel Ireland to the rest of us, but you're also having a parallel conversation. I wasn't complaining at all, just pointing out that in a nationalist town in Northern Ireland a woman in the early 80s still believed herself entitled to quiz an over-18 year old about her choice of who to have sex with as part of the consultation for prescribing the pill.

I was far too polite back then to tell her to p1ss off - but then that is probably also why I haven't told you to do the same so far. I find myself less patient and therefore much less polite as I approach the menopause so that might change.

But just to be clear, not "boo hoo poor me", just a rather amusing anecdote about just how entitled Catholics believed themselves to be to judge other people's lives. You expressed disbelief when another poster referred to the sort of superstitious nonsense that many believed right up to the 90s IME - so either you grew up in a cave or you're being economical with the actualities.

Odhinn · 26-09-2018 2:01pm

volchitsa wrote: »

.................
When I got to needing contraception myself some years later, I was quizzed by the woman in the local FPA (she was of course a catholic) about how long I had known this boy and other nonsense. If I'd had a bit more wit I'd have told her to p1ss off and mind her own business.

....or tell her that his name was William Wilberforce Boyd, for the craic.

Zubeneschamali · 26-09-2018 2:07pm

I keep misreading the Thread title as "So who's going to sue the Pope?", and then I am disappointed.

Zubeneschamali · 26-09-2018 2:20pm

volchitsa wrote: »

You expressed disbelief when another poster referred to the sort of superstitious nonsense that many believed right up to the 90s

To be clear - people still believe that stuff today.

Here are brochures for pilgrimages from Ireland to Medjugore, Lourdes, Fatima to visit the sites of various hallucinations of the BVM. Knock has a whole industry based on selling tat to pilgrims visiting the site of Ireland's first holy powerpoint presentation.

Holy wells all around the country, here since pre-christian times, still have people tying ribbons to bushes for reasons no Christian can remember.

People will still tell you with a straight face that they prayed to St. Anthony and then found their car keys, or to St. Jude and then Johnnie passed his leaving cert.

In Madeira, at the terminus of a cable car blasted into a cliff face, I came across a shrine to St. Barbara, the patron saint of explosives.

realdanbreen · 26-09-2018 4:53pm

volchitsa wrote: »

You seem not only to have grown up in a parallel Ireland to the rest of us, but you're also having a parallel conversation. I wasn't complaining at all, just pointing out that in a nationalist town in Northern Ireland a woman in the early 80s still believed herself entitled to quiz an over-18 year old about her choice of who to have sex with as part of the consultation for prescribing the pill.

I was far too polite back then to tell her to p1ss off - but then that is probably also why I haven't told you to do the same so far. I find myself less patient and therefore much less polite as I approach the menopause so that might change.

But just to be clear, not "boo hoo poor me", just a rather amusing anecdote about just how entitled Catholics believed themselves to be to judge other people's lives. You expressed disbelief when another poster referred to the sort of superstitious nonsense that many believed right up to the 90s IME - so either you grew up in a cave or you're being economical with the actualities.

I don't know what your fixation on caves is all about but if it's your attempt at being witty then it's just another thing that sums you up. You also seem to think that the fact that you were 'far too polite back then ' somehow excuses the fact that you hadn't the backbone to stand up for yourself. You say that now that you are approaching menopause that might change, somehow I doubt it. Courage is something one is born with.

Zubeneschamali · 26-09-2018 9:39pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

I don't know what your fixation on caves is all about but if it's your attempt at being witty then it's just another thing that sums you up. You also seem to think that the fact that you were 'far too polite back then ' somehow excuses the fact that you hadn't the backbone to stand up for yourself. You say that now that you are approaching menopause that might change, somehow I doubt it. Courage is something one is born with.

So, how about that Pope?

PTH2009 · 26-09-2018 9:40pm

Btw did anyone die in Phoenix Park after they put in the temp morgues ?

Peregrinus · 27-09-2018 2:37am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Btw did anyone die in Phoenix Park after they put in the temp morgues ?

No. Clearly this is the result of miraculous divine intervention.

WinnyThePoo · 27-09-2018 7:31am

Another fear for the event was the danger of Deers going through rutting season. Could attack people. Don't feed the deers people.

....... · 27-09-2018 9:17am

realdanbreen wrote: »

I don't know what your fixation on caves is all about but if it's your attempt at being witty then it's just another thing that sums you up. You also seem to think that the fact that you were 'far too polite back then ' somehow excuses the fact that you hadn't the backbone to stand up for yourself. You say that now that you are approaching menopause that might change, somehow I doubt it. Courage is something one is born with.

Have you been to a family planning clinic in 80s Ireland, as a woman, and asked for contraception?

Are you unaware that if impolite you would be shunted from the place with no contraception and muttered comments about you being a slut and a hussy?

Are you unaware that "courage" had nothing to do with being refused basic medical care by a bunch a religious women who deeply resented young girls who came to them looking for help?

Courage? All courage got you was back out on the street with no contraception and unless you lived in a big city it got you a reputation as a slag into the bargain.

You make me laugh with your uninformed parallel world posts - you havent got a clue what it was like for some of us.

realdanbreen · 27-09-2018 10:50am

....... wrote: »

Have you been to a family planning clinic in 80s Ireland, as a woman, and asked for contraception?

Are you unaware that if impolite you would be shunted from the place with no contraception and muttered comments about you being a slut and a hussy?

Are you unaware that "courage" had nothing to do with being refused basic medical care by a bunch a religious women who deeply resented young girls who came to them looking for help?

Courage? All courage got you was back out on the street with no contraception and unless you lived in a big city it got you a reputation as a slag into the bargain.

You make me laugh with your uninformed parallel world posts - you havent got a clue what it was like for some of us.

Fair enough you have a point. My beef is with those who blame the church for every wrong that ever befell them. And if it's not the church they blame then it's something or somebody else. It's never their responsibility or fault.

volchitsa · 28-09-2018 9:15am

realdanbreen wrote: »

Fair enough you have a point. My beef is with those who blame the church for every wrong that ever befell them. And if it's not the church they blame then it's something or somebody else. It's never their responsibility or fault.

From where I'm standing though, it looks as though your real problem is that you see this happening even when it's not.

I just gave a personal example of the sort of minor irritant young women just had to put up with at the time, ie of being openly "judged" by a woman who felt herself entitled to classify everyone else's sex lives as suitable or unsuitable, and yet was unethical enough herself to take a wage for giving out the contraception that she so obviously disapproved of.

You read that as me blaming the rest of the world for my failures? Or even the Catholic Church. Like seriously, WTF?

It's exactly why people have said you seem to live in a parallel world.

AllForIt · 02-11-2018 4:58pm

I had to laugh at this report which attempts (badly) to explain the reason for the low turnout during the popes visit here.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rte-and-miserable-weather-blamed-for-low-turnout-at-popes-mass-37484532.html

Bad weather and RTÉ's "comprehensive coverage" of the visit of Pope Francis have been blamed for the poor turnout at the pontiff's Phoenix Park Mass.

Back in 1979 RTE had wall to wall coverage of the visit for the whole day where all regular programming was cancelled. I recall being annoyed that my fav kids tv programmes weren't on and we had no alternative in British tv back then. I think I'm right that this went on for a few days too.

And as for the weather it was just typical Irish weather. You'd think it would take only a Hurricane or 10 foot of snow to stop devout Catholics from going to see the pope.

Often the simplest explanation is the right one which in this case is eff all ppl wanted to see him.

murpho999 · 02-11-2018 5:03pm

AllForIt wrote: »

I had to laugh at this report which attempts (badly) to explain the reason for the low turnout during the popes visit here.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rte-and-miserable-weather-blamed-for-low-turnout-at-popes-mass-37484532.html

Back in 1979 RTE had wall to wall coverage of the visit for the whole day where all regular programming was cancelled. I recall being annoyed that my fav kids tv programmes weren't on and we had no alternative in British tv back then. I think I'm right that this went on for a few days too.

And as for the weather it was just typical Irish weather. You'd think it would take only a Hurricane or 10 foot of snow to stop devout Catholics from going to see the pope.

Often the simplest explanation is the right one which in this case is eff all ppl wanted to see him.

It's a ridiculous argument they're making.

Do they not notice how attendance at outdoor events like sports matches, music festivals or concerts are not affected by TV coverage or weather.

Surely devout Catholics would brave anything to see there beloved leader and spiritual guider?

Hotblack Desiato · 02-11-2018 5:15pm

Feck all could even be bothered to watch him drive past in Dublin city centre - weather was nice and very little effort required.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 02-11-2018 5:18pm

They're having another national collection, next week, to recoup some of the €4Million shortfall. I wish them luck with that, based on the poor level of contributions in the collections prior to the visit.

02-11-2018 5:39pm

Mike Loud Embryo wrote: »

They're having another national collection, next week, to recoup some of the €4Million shortfall. I wish them luck with that, based on the poor level of contributions in the collections prior to the visit.

Kevin Doran didn't disguise his irritation, it would break the Church to dream of dipping into its reserves.

ohnonotgmail · 02-11-2018 5:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Kevin Doran didn't disguise his irritation, it would break the Church to dream of dipping into its reserves.

Anything that annoys Kev is a good thing.

02-11-2018 5:51pm

If the RCC is struggling for a bit of airgead, they could always sell some of the multimillion euro properties they own in the most expensive residential areas of Dublin. Usually in the name of some obscure organisation within the RCC which has very few, if any, Irish members in its congregation any more.

Selling these properties would be significantly better than selling off school playing pitches to property developers and depriving kids of sports grounds into the future in order to pay for their crimes against kids of the past. The irony seems to have escaped them all.

A list of all RCC property in Dublin would be eye watering. It definitely is not given the attention it deserves in light of the money the state is now going to have to pay out. The sooner every school in Ireland is owned by the state the sooner this sort of stripping of communal facilities like school playing pitches will be ended. It's only going to get much, much worse for as long as these private organisations like the RCC own the vast majority of our society's schools.

jmayo · 02-11-2018 6:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If the RCC is struggling for a bit of airgead, they could always sell some of the multimillion euro properties they own in the most expensive residential areas of Dublin. Usually in the name of some obscure organisation within the RCC which has very few, if any, Irish members in its congregation any more.

Selling these properties would be significantly better than selling off school playing pitches to property developers and depriving kids of sports grounds into the future in order to pay for their crimes against kids of the past. The irony seems to have escaped them all.

A list of all RCC property in Dublin would be eye watering. It definitely is not given the attention it deserves in light of the money the state is now going to have to pay out. The sooner every school in Ireland is owned by the state the sooner this sort of stripping of communal facilities like school playing pitches will be ended. It's only going to get much, much worse for as long as these private organisations like the RCC own the vast majority of our society's schools.

Say what you want about the church and schools, they sure as hell were better at building them it now appears.

Hotblack Desiato · 03-11-2018 2:05am

Deleted User wrote: »

If the RCC is struggling for a bit of airgead, they could always sell some of the multimillion euro properties they own in the most expensive residential areas of Dublin.

You make it sound like tax free capital gains for a "charity" is some sort of punishment!

They've been doing the cha-ching thing for decades now in the desirable areas of Dublin. The money goes to hire the highest priced legal firms in the land to deflect and delay child abuse compensation claims, ensure comfortable retirements for convicted paedophiles, and other things they don't tell you about.

Hotblack Desiato · 03-11-2018 2:10am

Mike Loud Embryo wrote: »

They're having another national collection, next week, to recoup some of the €4Million shortfall. I wish them luck with that, based on the poor level of contributions in the collections prior to the visit.

Amazingly this is the FIFTH national collection they are having for this "valuable" cause -

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/catholic-church-to-hold-fifth-national-collection-to-pay-for-papal-visit-1.3679595

Spokesman for the Catholic bishops Martin Long said “the World Meeting of Families deficit is in the region of €4 million. To date €15.4 million has been raised by previous national collections and other donations.”

The overall cost to the church of the WMoF2018 and the visit to Pope Francis was €19.4 million, he said.

It will be the fifth such national collection by the church to help fund these events and the third this year, following one in February and another in July. The previous two national collections in connection with them took place in May 2016 and April 2017 and brought in €5 million.

In a message to all priests and deacons in the diocese of Elphin, Bishop Kevin Doran said “the recent World Meeting of Families came in significantly under budget, thanks to good financial management.”

He added however that “unfortunately, in spite of a very successful effort, there was also a shortfall in fundraising income, due in no small measure to the consistent negative coverage in the media in the final weeks of preparation.

“Some ‘fruit’ died on the ‘trees’. The result is a deficit which has to be covered by the Irish church.”

He continued that the Episcopal Conference (the bishops) had “decided on an additional national collection on November 10th/11th to help defray the deficit, which would otherwise fall to each diocese in proportion to its size.

“I would ask you to support this collection to the best of your ability, as every penny that comes in will be a reduction of the amount that we will eventually have to pay from reserves.”

Bishop Doran added that “this special collection will not replace the parish collection.”

Don't blame the kiddy rape cover-up, blame the media for talking about the kiddy rape cover-up :rolleyes:

Ursus Horribilis · 03-11-2018 2:10am

Apart from there being less people interested in going to see him, the age profile of possible attendees was another big factor. Elderly people facing into long walks to get to the mass site on a day when the weather was appalling didn't help either.

Hotblack Desiato · 03-11-2018 2:11am

The claim that the weather in Dublin was appalling is not true. There was a bit of rain early on. It stopped. This is Ireland. Not Benidorm.

I could have, if I had a ticket and wanted to, gone to the pope's mass with barely a drop of rain on my head. We got on the bus (paid, no unconstitutional taxpayer endowment of a religion for us) in the dry, flew in as far as Kilmainham, a few pope heads got off, we got off in O'Connell St, went to the Stand4Truth rally and got no more sprinkled than a bit of drizzle.

We made the effort to stand for what we believe in, with no jackpot of an eternal reward on offer. Yet only a quarter of "Catholics" who applied for tickets could bother their arse to see their god's representative on earth visit this country for the second and probably last time.

markodaly · 03-11-2018 9:54am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

We made the effort to stand for what we believe in, with no jackpot of an eternal reward on offer.

362b2469b86c009f6a9bc1f0a0ef0086c53a51b29b9837f3f432f2c0f3a70c16.jpg

Fighting Tao · 03-11-2018 11:06am

Pity the pope didn’t drop by to the Stand4Truth gathering in order to apologise.

volchitsa · 04-11-2018 2:47pm

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Apart from there being less people interested in going to see him, the age profile of possible attendees was another big factor. Elderly people facing into long walks to get to the mass site on a day when the weather was appalling didn't help either.

A sign from God about his thoughts on today's Church?

Spanish Eyes · 04-11-2018 2:52pm

There is no CGT on sale, or Stamp Duty on purchase payable by CC due to their charitable status. Great little country altogether.

So who's going to see the Pope?

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