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So who's going to see the Pope?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,687 ✭✭✭✭ Zubeneschamali


    Nope, the devil is real and not a metaphor according to the pope

    He may have a social conscience better than Ratzingers, but if he believes this stuff literally, I'm afraid I'll have to move him to my "Nice but nuts" box.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,602 Hitman3000


    I see where he is going here. The devil made them do it. ; )


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,643 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    He may have a social conscience better than Ratzingers, but if he believes this stuff literally, I'm afraid I'll have to move him to my "Nice but nuts" box.


    He is a jesuit. what do you expect?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,687 ✭✭✭✭ Zubeneschamali


    He is a jesuit. what do you expect?

    I have spoken to Jesuits who don't even believe in God, never mind a literal Devil.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,643 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    I have spoken to Jesuits who don't even believe in God, never mind a literal Devil.


    well then you need to speak to better jesuits :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,687 ✭✭✭✭ Zubeneschamali


    well then you need to speak to better jesuits :)


    Better =/= nuttier in my eyes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭ DChancer


    So the OPW have finally put a figure on those attending the Gig in the park,just under 152,000 including all those taking part eg choirs etc.
    Sad they had to be hit with a Freedom of Information request to force them to issue the figures.
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/pope-francis-in-ireland/revealed-finally-how-many-people-attended-papal-mass-in-phoenix-park-37335645.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,245 ✭✭✭ Christy42


    I'm a little worried that he is talking about the Devil roaming the world. I hope this is a metaphor.


    Nope, the devil is real and not a metaphor according to the pope


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/13/dont-argue-devil-much-intelligent-us-says-pope-francis/

    Edward M wrote: »
    It sounds to me as if he is saying anyone looking for truth and justice is the devil!


    It does sound like that alright.
    OK the devil trying to uncover sins is obviously horrific and evil statement.

    However why surprise at the Pope believing in the devil. I mean he believes in God which is about as logical as believing in the Devil. Frequently they are paired up and I would be surprised if the pope did not believe in the devil really!


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,480 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    DChancer wrote: »
    So the OPW have finally put a figure on those attending the Gig in the park,just under 152,000 including all those taking part eg choirs etc.

    Total cost of the visit to the taxpayer was about €160 per person attending the Park or Knock.

    A fcuking joke, at our expense...


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,687 ✭✭✭✭ Zubeneschamali


    Christy42 wrote: »
    However why surprise at the Pope believing in the devil.

    Catholicism is complicated.

    Ordinary joe soaps in the church pews believe all sorts of nonsense about the power of prayer, holy water, the child of prague, Medjugore, secrets of Fatima, the BVM statue on the wall with the flickery electric bulb, on and on. There is even folk religion from pre-christian times still practiced, like tying tat to bushes at holy wells.

    A Catholic theologian at a seminary will believe absolutely none of that. Not a feckin word. Yet it is nominally the same religion, and the hierarchy are careful not to step on the stupid beliefs of the ignorant where possible.

    I am surprised that someone can rise to be Pope and still believe the simple-minded stuff like the Devil literally walking the Earth.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,523 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    Main thing is just to keep the money flowing in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,643 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    Christy42 wrote: »
    OK the devil trying to uncover sins is obviously horrific and evil statement.

    However why surprise at the Pope believing in the devil. I mean he believes in God which is about as logical as believing in the Devil. Frequently they are paired up and I would be surprised if the pope did not believe in the devil really!


    you might think it is obvious but belief in the devil as an physical being is not a given. It is usually employed metaphorically. But the pope is a jesuit and they tend to do their own theological thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,245 ✭✭✭ Christy42


    Christy42 wrote: »
    However why surprise at the Pope believing in the devil.

    Catholicism is complicated.

    Ordinary joe soaps in the church pews believe all sorts of nonsense about the power of prayer, holy water, the child of prague, Medjugore, secrets of Fatima, the BVM statue on the wall with the flickery electric bulb, on and on. There is even folk religion from pre-christian times still practiced, like tying tat to bushes at holy wells.

    A Catholic theologian at a seminary will believe absolutely none of that. Not a feckin word. Yet it is nominally the same religion, and the hierarchy are careful not to step on the stupid beliefs of the ignorant where possible.

    I am surprised that someone can rise to be Pope and still believe the simple-minded stuff like the Devil literally walking the Earth.
    To be fair I would not call it simple minded. For me belief in God, the Devil, holy water etc. are about as logical as each other. Granted you may believe in some without the rest but the same leap of faith is required.

    However I did not realise theologians had stopped going for Lucifer as as real as God so thank you for that tit bit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭ realdanbreen


    Catholicism is complicated.

    Ordinary joe soaps in the church pews believe all sorts of nonsense about the power of prayer, holy water, the child of prague, Medjugore, secrets of Fatima, the BVM statue on the wall with the flickery electric bulb, on and on. There is even folk religion from pre-christian times still practiced, like tying tat to bushes at holy wells.


    Sounds like you were reared in a very strict/orthodox catholic environment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,687 ✭✭✭✭ Zubeneschamali


    Sounds like you were reared in a very strict/orthodox catholic environment.

    Yes, Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭ Sycamore Tree


    I was talking to someone from Order of Malta and she reckoned the numbers in Knock were very poor. People with tickets just didn't bother turning up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,629 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    I was talking to someone from Order of Malta and she reckoned the numbers in Knock were very poor. People with tickets just didn't bother turning up.

    To be fair, you wouldn't put a milk bottle out in the weather early that morning. I did my best to convince my Mam not to go due to the weather but she ignored me as usual. :pac:

    Old people got tickets to go see the pope expecting it to be handy enough to go see the Pope like they did 30 years ago, forgetting that they 30 years older. They then heard for months about all about walking for up to 8 km, standing for hours, makeshift morgues etc. The sh1te was frightened out of them.

    So that, combined with the weather stopped an awful lot of people going.

    But that wasn't the only reason. The demand for tickets wasn't as great as expected. My local parish got about 10 extra tickets in case anybody else wanted to go on the bus and only 3 of them got used. Therefore 7 tickets were wasted. If most parishes did this, then that would lead to a lot of unused tickets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,086 ✭✭✭ volchitsa


    Sounds like you were reared in a very strict/orthodox catholic environment.

    Just about any Irish person over the age of about 45 was reared in that environment. I certainly was and so were all my school friends. Most of their parents were even more religious than mine. How old are you?


  • Site Banned Posts: 386 ✭✭ Jimmy.


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Just about any Irish person over the age of about 45 was reared in that environment. I certainly was and so were all my school friends. Most of their parents were even more religious than mine. How old are you?

    Cling film johnnies?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,086 ✭✭✭ volchitsa


    Jimmy. wrote: »
    Cling film johnnies?

    Sorry, no idea what you mean. :o

    We were in Northern Ireland, so AFAIAA contraception was available, for married couples anyway, but judging by the size of families, most of our parents didon't seem to have been keen on going against the church and using any.

    When I got to needing contraception myself some years later, I was quizzed by the woman in the local FPA (she was of course a catholic) about how long I had known this boy and other nonsense. If I'd had a bit more wit I'd have told her to p1ss off and mind her own business.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 53,888 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Sorry, no idea what you mean. :o

    We were in Northern Ireland, so AFAIAA contraception was available, for married couples anyway, but judging by the size of families, most of our parents didon't seem to have been keen on going against the church and using any.

    When I got to needing contraception myself some years later, I was quizzed by the woman in the local FPA (she was of course a catholic) about how long I had known this boy and other nonsense. If I'd had a bit more wit I'd have told her to p1ss off and mind her own business.

    I'm in my mid 50's and I would say it's a 70-30 split among my peers as to how we inherited values.

    I know a few who still believe in what their parents did, but most have thrown off all of it and lead secular lives. Too many of them pay lip service though and do the holy communion and confirmation stuff while not believing any of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭ Sycamore Tree


    I'm in my mid 50's and I would say it's a 70-30 split among my peers as to how we inherited values.

    I know a few who still believe in what their parents did, but most have thrown off all of it and lead secular lives. Too many of them pay lip service though and do the holy communion and confirmation stuff while not believing any of it.

    I am approaching my 50s and so many of my friends are the same - it's hypocrisy to be honest. However I have noticed in the last few years that they are regretting not taking a stand and a little embarrassed at making their kids members of an organisation that continues to ignore it's massive dysfunctional flaws (to put it lightly) when it comes to the welfare of children and openness/honesty. The fact is that none of my friends would leave their children alone with a priest for 5 seconds.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 Edward M


    I am approaching my 50s and so many of my friends are the same - it's hypocrisy to be honest. However I have noticed in the last few years that they are regretting not taking a stand and a little embarrassed at making their kids members of an organisation that continues to ignore it's massive dysfunctional flaws (to put it lightly) when it comes to the welfare of children and openness/honesty. The fact is that none of my friends would leave their children alone with a priest for 5 seconds.

    Not even one they know?
    I imagine no parent would leave their child with any stranger for 5 mins, generalising it to priests would be disingenuous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 Edward M


    I'm in my mid 50's and I would say it's a 70-30 split among my peers as to how we inherited values.

    I know a few who still believe in what their parents did, but most have thrown off all of it and lead secular lives. Too many of them pay lip service though and do the holy communion and confirmation stuff while not believing any of it.

    That's true enough.
    The mass and communion are sometimes just an excuse to trapse up the aisle in your finery for your neighbours to admire.
    The schools promote the early sacraments and ready classes for them, they mean little to the children either but as a class they get to have a special day out, its a celebration for them, but until such time as its taken out of the schools then it will continue.
    I think if it became an out of school class and learning experience more families would not participate in it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭ ToddyDoody


    Now that the dust has settled, it really makes you look at the original pope monument in a different light. You'd be laughed out of it if you suggested building something of a comparable scale for the recent visit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,687 ✭✭✭✭ Zubeneschamali


    That bloody cross in the park went up without planning because it was just for the visit. But the visit was a huge success so they kept it. Always annoyed me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,325 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    That bloody cross in the park went up without planning because it was just for the visit. But the visit was a huge success so they kept it. Always annoyed me.
    I seem to remember that retention permission was granted some time in the early '80s. But don't quote me on that.

    There's a currently open petition on change.org calling for its removal, if you're still pissed off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭ realdanbreen


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Just about any Irish person over the age of about 45 was reared in that environment. I certainly was and so were all my school friends. Most of their parents were even more religious than mine. How old are you?


    I was fortunate to be reared by a strong willed woman who would not be dictated to by any individual male or female, cleric or lay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,086 ✭✭✭ volchitsa


    I was fortunate to be reared by a strong willed woman who would not be dictated to by any individual male or female, cleric or lay.

    That doesn't answer the question. Unless you lived in a cave, anyone that age would have been aware of the surrounding ethos - all the more so if their parents were at odds with it, as mine, to some extent, were.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭ realdanbreen


    Edward M wrote: »
    That's true enough.
    The mass and communion are sometimes just an excuse to trapse up the aisle in your finery for your neighbours to admire.

    I don't know what part of the country you live in but it appears to be stuck in some kind of 1950's timewarp.


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