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So who's going to see the Pope?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭ Sycamore Tree


    Edward M wrote: »
    That's true enough.
    The mass and communion are sometimes just an excuse to trapse up the aisle in your finery for your neighbours to admire.

    I don't know what part of the country you live in but it appears to be stuck in some kind of 1950's timewarp.
    Bull**** and you bloody well know it, you're just trying to act the eejit.

    Most parents push their children to do communion and make a big deal of it even though they aren't religious. Thankfully more and more are opting out but it's very difficult due to the dominance of religious ethos schools. Get religion out of school and the farce will cease.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭ realdanbreen


    volchitsa wrote: »
    That doesn't answer the question. Unless you lived in a cave, anyone that age would have been aware of the surrounding ethos - all the more so if their parents were at odds with it, as mine, to some extent, were.


    No I never lived in a cave. You said earlier that 'if you had a bit more wit' you MIGHT have done things differently. As I said earlier I was fortunate to be reared in a family that had the balls to stand up to any outside interference. You can of course go boo hoo, poor me , the bad Catholic lady quizzed me, boo hoo, and feel sorry for yourself if you wish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,083 ✭✭✭ volchitsa


    No I never lived in a cave. You said earlier that 'if you had a bit more wit' you MIGHT have done things differently. As I said earlier I was fortunate to be reared in a family that had the balls to stand up to any outside interference. You can of course go boo hoo, poor me , the bad Catholic lady quizzed me, boo hoo, and feel sorry for yourself if you wish.

    You seem not only to have grown up in a parallel Ireland to the rest of us, but you're also having a parallel conversation. I wasn't complaining at all, just pointing out that in a nationalist town in Northern Ireland a woman in the early 80s still believed herself entitled to quiz an over-18 year old about her choice of who to have sex with as part of the consultation for prescribing the pill.

    I was far too polite back then to tell her to p1ss off - but then that is probably also why I haven't told you to do the same so far. I find myself less patient and therefore much less polite as I approach the menopause so that might change.

    But just to be clear, not "boo hoo poor me", just a rather amusing anecdote about just how entitled Catholics believed themselves to be to judge other people's lives. You expressed disbelief when another poster referred to the sort of superstitious nonsense that many believed right up to the 90s IME - so either you grew up in a cave or you're being economical with the actualities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭ Odhinn


    volchitsa wrote: »
    .................
    When I got to needing contraception myself some years later, I was quizzed by the woman in the local FPA (she was of course a catholic) about how long I had known this boy and other nonsense. If I'd had a bit more wit I'd have told her to p1ss off and mind her own business.




    ....or tell her that his name was William Wilberforce Boyd, for the craic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,687 ✭✭✭✭ Zubeneschamali


    I keep misreading the Thread title as "So who's going to sue the Pope?", and then I am disappointed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,687 ✭✭✭✭ Zubeneschamali


    volchitsa wrote: »
    You expressed disbelief when another poster referred to the sort of superstitious nonsense that many believed right up to the 90s

    To be clear - people still believe that stuff today.

    Here are brochures for pilgrimages from Ireland to Medjugore, Lourdes, Fatima to visit the sites of various hallucinations of the BVM. Knock has a whole industry based on selling tat to pilgrims visiting the site of Ireland's first holy powerpoint presentation.

    Holy wells all around the country, here since pre-christian times, still have people tying ribbons to bushes for reasons no Christian can remember.

    People will still tell you with a straight face that they prayed to St. Anthony and then found their car keys, or to St. Jude and then Johnnie passed his leaving cert.

    In Madeira, at the terminus of a cable car blasted into a cliff face, I came across a shrine to St. Barbara, the patron saint of explosives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭ realdanbreen


    volchitsa wrote: »
    You seem not only to have grown up in a parallel Ireland to the rest of us, but you're also having a parallel conversation. I wasn't complaining at all, just pointing out that in a nationalist town in Northern Ireland a woman in the early 80s still believed herself entitled to quiz an over-18 year old about her choice of who to have sex with as part of the consultation for prescribing the pill.

    I was far too polite back then to tell her to p1ss off - but then that is probably also why I haven't told you to do the same so far. I find myself less patient and therefore much less polite as I approach the menopause so that might change.

    But just to be clear, not "boo hoo poor me", just a rather amusing anecdote about just how entitled Catholics believed themselves to be to judge other people's lives. You expressed disbelief when another poster referred to the sort of superstitious nonsense that many believed right up to the 90s IME - so either you grew up in a cave or you're being economical with the actualities.

    I don't know what your fixation on caves is all about but if it's your attempt at being witty then it's just another thing that sums you up. You also seem to think that the fact that you were 'far too polite back then ' somehow excuses the fact that you hadn't the backbone to stand up for yourself. You say that now that you are approaching menopause that might change, somehow I doubt it. Courage is something one is born with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,687 ✭✭✭✭ Zubeneschamali


    I don't know what your fixation on caves is all about but if it's your attempt at being witty then it's just another thing that sums you up. You also seem to think that the fact that you were 'far too polite back then ' somehow excuses the fact that you hadn't the backbone to stand up for yourself. You say that now that you are approaching menopause that might change, somehow I doubt it. Courage is something one is born with.


    So, how about that Pope?


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,630 ✭✭✭✭ PTH2009


    Btw did anyone die in Phoenix Park after they put in the temp morgues ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,325 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Btw did anyone die in Phoenix Park after they put in the temp morgues ?
    No. Clearly this is the result of miraculous divine intervention.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 WinnyThePoo


    Another fear for the event was the danger of Deers going through rutting season. Could attack people. Don't feed the deers people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭ .......


    I don't know what your fixation on caves is all about but if it's your attempt at being witty then it's just another thing that sums you up. You also seem to think that the fact that you were 'far too polite back then ' somehow excuses the fact that you hadn't the backbone to stand up for yourself. You say that now that you are approaching menopause that might change, somehow I doubt it. Courage is something one is born with.

    Have you been to a family planning clinic in 80s Ireland, as a woman, and asked for contraception?

    Are you unaware that if impolite you would be shunted from the place with no contraception and muttered comments about you being a slut and a hussy?

    Are you unaware that "courage" had nothing to do with being refused basic medical care by a bunch a religious women who deeply resented young girls who came to them looking for help?

    Courage? All courage got you was back out on the street with no contraception and unless you lived in a big city it got you a reputation as a slag into the bargain.

    You make me laugh with your uninformed parallel world posts - you havent got a clue what it was like for some of us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭ realdanbreen


    ....... wrote: »
    Have you been to a family planning clinic in 80s Ireland, as a woman, and asked for contraception?

    Are you unaware that if impolite you would be shunted from the place with no contraception and muttered comments about you being a slut and a hussy?

    Are you unaware that "courage" had nothing to do with being refused basic medical care by a bunch a religious women who deeply resented young girls who came to them looking for help?

    Courage? All courage got you was back out on the street with no contraception and unless you lived in a big city it got you a reputation as a slag into the bargain.

    You make me laugh with your uninformed parallel world posts - you havent got a clue what it was like for some of us.

    Fair enough you have a point. My beef is with those who blame the church for every wrong that ever befell them. And if it's not the church they blame then it's something or somebody else. It's never their responsibility or fault.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,083 ✭✭✭ volchitsa


    Fair enough you have a point. My beef is with those who blame the church for every wrong that ever befell them. And if it's not the church they blame then it's something or somebody else. It's never their responsibility or fault.

    From where I'm standing though, it looks as though your real problem is that you see this happening even when it's not.

    I just gave a personal example of the sort of minor irritant young women just had to put up with at the time, ie of being openly "judged" by a woman who felt herself entitled to classify everyone else's sex lives as suitable or unsuitable, and yet was unethical enough herself to take a wage for giving out the contraception that she so obviously disapproved of.

    You read that as me blaming the rest of the world for my failures? Or even the Catholic Church. Like seriously, WTF?

    It's exactly why people have said you seem to live in a parallel world.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,936 ✭✭✭ AllForIt


    I had to laugh at this report which attempts (badly) to explain the reason for the low turnout during the popes visit here.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rte-and-miserable-weather-blamed-for-low-turnout-at-popes-mass-37484532.html

    Bad weather and RTÉ's "comprehensive coverage" of the visit of Pope Francis have been blamed for the poor turnout at the pontiff's Phoenix Park Mass.

    Back in 1979 RTE had wall to wall coverage of the visit for the whole day where all regular programming was cancelled. I recall being annoyed that my fav kids tv programmes weren't on and we had no alternative in British tv back then. I think I'm right that this went on for a few days too.

    And as for the weather it was just typical Irish weather. You'd think it would take only a Hurricane or 10 foot of snow to stop devout Catholics from going to see the pope.

    Often the simplest explanation is the right one which in this case is eff all ppl wanted to see him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,527 ✭✭✭✭ murpho999


    AllForIt wrote: »
    I had to laugh at this report which attempts (badly) to explain the reason for the low turnout during the popes visit here.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rte-and-miserable-weather-blamed-for-low-turnout-at-popes-mass-37484532.html




    Back in 1979 RTE had wall to wall coverage of the visit for the whole day where all regular programming was cancelled. I recall being annoyed that my fav kids tv programmes weren't on and we had no alternative in British tv back then. I think I'm right that this went on for a few days too.

    And as for the weather it was just typical Irish weather. You'd think it would take only a Hurricane or 10 foot of snow to stop devout Catholics from going to see the pope.

    Often the simplest explanation is the right one which in this case is eff all ppl wanted to see him.

    It's a ridiculous argument they're making.

    Do they not notice how attendance at outdoor events like sports matches, music festivals or concerts are not affected by TV coverage or weather.

    Surely devout Catholics would brave anything to see there beloved leader and spiritual guider?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,954 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    Feck all could even be bothered to watch him drive past in Dublin city centre - weather was nice and very little effort required.

    Make our National Maternity Hospital Public and Secular

    #MakeNMHOurs

    Annoy your TDs now!!!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ Mike Loud Embryo


    They're having another national collection, next week, to recoup some of the €4Million shortfall. I wish them luck with that, based on the poor level of contributions in the collections prior to the visit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭ Berties_Horse


    They're having another national collection, next week, to recoup some of the €4Million shortfall. I wish them luck with that, based on the poor level of contributions in the collections prior to the visit.


    Kevin Doran didn't disguise his irritation, it would break the Church to dream of dipping into its reserves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,292 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    Kevin Doran didn't disguise his irritation, it would break the Church to dream of dipping into its reserves.


    Anything that annoys Kev is a good thing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭ Fuaranach


    If the RCC is struggling for a bit of airgead, they could always sell some of the multimillion euro properties they own in the most expensive residential areas of Dublin. Usually in the name of some obscure organisation within the RCC which has very few, if any, Irish members in its congregation any more.

    Selling these properties would be significantly better than selling off school playing pitches to property developers and depriving kids of sports grounds into the future in order to pay for their crimes against kids of the past. The irony seems to have escaped them all.

    A list of all RCC property in Dublin would be eye watering. It definitely is not given the attention it deserves in light of the money the state is now going to have to pay out. The sooner every school in Ireland is owned by the state the sooner this sort of stripping of communal facilities like school playing pitches will be ended. It's only going to get much, much worse for as long as these private organisations like the RCC own the vast majority of our society's schools.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,348 ✭✭✭✭ jmayo


    Fuaranach wrote: »
    If the RCC is struggling for a bit of airgead, they could always sell some of the multimillion euro properties they own in the most expensive residential areas of Dublin. Usually in the name of some obscure organisation within the RCC which has very few, if any, Irish members in its congregation any more.

    Selling these properties would be significantly better than selling off school playing pitches to property developers and depriving kids of sports grounds into the future in order to pay for their crimes against kids of the past. The irony seems to have escaped them all.

    A list of all RCC property in Dublin would be eye watering. It definitely is not given the attention it deserves in light of the money the state is now going to have to pay out. The sooner every school in Ireland is owned by the state the sooner this sort of stripping of communal facilities like school playing pitches will be ended. It's only going to get much, much worse for as long as these private organisations like the RCC own the vast majority of our society's schools.

    Say what you want about the church and schools, they sure as hell were better at building them it now appears. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,954 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    Fuaranach wrote: »
    If the RCC is struggling for a bit of airgead, they could always sell some of the multimillion euro properties they own in the most expensive residential areas of Dublin.

    You make it sound like tax free capital gains for a "charity" is some sort of punishment!

    They've been doing the cha-ching thing for decades now in the desirable areas of Dublin. The money goes to hire the highest priced legal firms in the land to deflect and delay child abuse compensation claims, ensure comfortable retirements for convicted paedophiles, and other things they don't tell you about.

    Make our National Maternity Hospital Public and Secular

    #MakeNMHOurs

    Annoy your TDs now!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,954 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    They're having another national collection, next week, to recoup some of the €4Million shortfall. I wish them luck with that, based on the poor level of contributions in the collections prior to the visit.

    Amazingly this is the FIFTH national collection they are having for this "valuable" cause -

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/catholic-church-to-hold-fifth-national-collection-to-pay-for-papal-visit-1.3679595
    Spokesman for the Catholic bishops Martin Long said “the World Meeting of Families deficit is in the region of €4 million. To date €15.4 million has been raised by previous national collections and other donations.”

    The overall cost to the church of the WMoF2018 and the visit to Pope Francis was €19.4 million, he said.

    It will be the fifth such national collection by the church to help fund these events and the third this year, following one in February and another in July. The previous two national collections in connection with them took place in May 2016 and April 2017 and brought in €5 million.

    In a message to all priests and deacons in the diocese of Elphin, Bishop Kevin Doran said “the recent World Meeting of Families came in significantly under budget, thanks to good financial management.”

    He added however that “unfortunately, in spite of a very successful effort, there was also a shortfall in fundraising income, due in no small measure to the consistent negative coverage in the media in the final weeks of preparation.

    “Some ‘fruit’ died on the ‘trees’. The result is a deficit which has to be covered by the Irish church.”

    He continued that the Episcopal Conference (the bishops) had “decided on an additional national collection on November 10th/11th to help defray the deficit, which would otherwise fall to each diocese in proportion to its size.

    “I would ask you to support this collection to the best of your ability, as every penny that comes in will be a reduction of the amount that we will eventually have to pay from reserves.”

    Bishop Doran added that “this special collection will not replace the parish collection.”

    Don't blame the kiddy rape cover-up, blame the media for talking about the kiddy rape cover-up :rolleyes:

    Make our National Maternity Hospital Public and Secular

    #MakeNMHOurs

    Annoy your TDs now!!!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,170 ✭✭✭ Ursus Horribilis


    Apart from there being less people interested in going to see him, the age profile of possible attendees was another big factor. Elderly people facing into long walks to get to the mass site on a day when the weather was appalling didn't help either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,954 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    The claim that the weather in Dublin was appalling is not true. There was a bit of rain early on. It stopped. This is Ireland. Not Benidorm.

    I could have, if I had a ticket and wanted to, gone to the pope's mass with barely a drop of rain on my head. We got on the bus (paid, no unconstitutional taxpayer endowment of a religion for us) in the dry, flew in as far as Kilmainham, a few pope heads got off, we got off in O'Connell St, went to the Stand4Truth rally and got no more sprinkled than a bit of drizzle.

    We made the effort to stand for what we believe in, with no jackpot of an eternal reward on offer. Yet only a quarter of "Catholics" who applied for tickets could bother their arse to see their god's representative on earth visit this country for the second and probably last time.

    Make our National Maternity Hospital Public and Secular

    #MakeNMHOurs

    Annoy your TDs now!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,119 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly



    We made the effort to stand for what we believe in, with no jackpot of an eternal reward on offer.

    362b2469b86c009f6a9bc1f0a0ef0086c53a51b29b9837f3f432f2c0f3a70c16.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭ Fighting Tao


    Pity the pope didn’t drop by to the Stand4Truth gathering in order to apologise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,083 ✭✭✭ volchitsa


    Apart from there being less people interested in going to see him, the age profile of possible attendees was another big factor. Elderly people facing into long walks to get to the mass site on a day when the weather was appalling didn't help either.

    A sign from God about his thoughts on today's Church?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,200 ✭✭✭✭ Spanish Eyes


    There is no CGT on sale, or Stamp Duty on purchase payable by CC due to their charitable status. Great little country altogether.


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