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new ICBF Proofs

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    ...TVR's calving gone up even higher!
    This is what annoys me about the Limousin Society. Nearly every show has been won by a Vantastic son or daughter. What is the point of promoting such a hard calving bull? :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭tanko


    Calving ease has such a big barring on the stars now

    Yeah, too much of a bearing I think. Calving ease is important but it can influence the terminal and especially the maternal figures.

    What do you think of Fiston bogman?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭tanko


    This is what annoys me about the Limousin Society. Nearly every show has been won by a Vantastic son or daughter. What is the point of promoting such a hard calving bull? :mad:

    Dead right. I didn't hear anyone around the ring at tullamore talking about whether the heifers would have any milk or not.

    In fairness GWO doesn't seem to be hard calving and looks like a very good terminal bull.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,083 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    on dairy side ksk up from 268 to 287
    yad up from 340 to 342
    awb stayed the same at 225
    pbm up from 270 to 272
    psz down from 301 to 280
    abo down from 284 to 276


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    This is what annoys me about the Limousin Society. Nearly every show has been won by a Vantastic son or daughter. What is the point of promoting such a hard calving bull? :mad:

    The same old problem with breed societies; too much focus on the show ring!
    I think the recent wave of British sires being used over here are doing the breed damage.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    tanko wrote: »
    Yeah, too much of a bearing I think. Calving ease is important but it can influence the terminal and especially the maternal figures.

    What do you think of Fiston bogman?

    He's the business. Just looking his figures took a tumble but reliability is still very low. He'll be back up there


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    What's fiston's code? There's a load of bulls on icbf called fiston


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    Fsz


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭tanko


    He's the business. Just looking his figures took a tumble but reliability is still very low. He'll be back up there

    I've heard it said that his calves are born small and put on great muscle as they grow. Would you agree?
    Also, what do you think of Cavelands Fenian LZF in comparison to Fiston as regards calving difficulty and calf quality?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Bodacious


    Fsz


    every man and his dog used fiston this year round here.. lims not making the money in the ring and was a big gap in the market for an easy calved char bull after Pirate.. 2nd calvers, older cows etc all got Fiston this year as opposed to good limo


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    Guys finishing bulls early seemed to prefer Limousins. When the bull trade took a hammering, I guess Chars will be more in favour now. Back to the old 30 Month bullocks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭tanko


    Guys finishing bulls early seemed to prefer Limousins. When the bull trade took a hammering, I guess Chars will be more in favour now. Back to the old 30 Month bullocks.

    I wonder will the lowering of carcase weights count against Charolais cattle from now on tho. They finish best at heavy weights.
    No evidence of this in my local mart, CHX cattle are still the best sellers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    whelan2 wrote: »
    on dairy side ksk up from 268 to 287
    yad up from 340 to 342
    awb stayed the same at 225
    pbm up from 270 to 272
    psz down from 301 to 280
    abo down from 284 to 276

    PSZ the only one I've lost out on so!

    I used a fair bit of JKF also, he has jumped from 264 to 273.


  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭Bigbird1


    Used the two new bulls fsz and hzj myself this year,its hard beat the charolais at the end of the day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    Proofs for Dec 2014 now up on www.icbf.com in Excel format.

    http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=200


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    Just looking through the figures there. The Charolais Cavelands Fenian (LZF) is only 5.5% Calving Difficulty (96% Rel). His weanling Price and Weanling weights look good too. Fiston (FSZ) is 7.1% (97% Rel). Not bad at all.
    On the other hand Inverlochy Gurkha (GKA) is a whopping 19.7% (74% Rel). It just shows how important it is to test a good few bulls together. There will always be good and bad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 651 ✭✭✭Nettleman


    Just looking through the figures there. The Charolais Cavelands Fenian (LZF) is only 5.5% Calving Difficulty (96% Rel). His weanling Price and Weanling weights look good too. Fiston (FSZ) is 7.1% (97% Rel). Not bad at all.
    On the other hand Inverlochy Gurkha (GKA) is a whopping 19.7% (74% Rel). It just shows how important it is to test a good few bulls together. There will always be good and bad.
    +1, I printed off the august ones from website, and hand wrote in the December ratings beside them. there are some serious swings, and I used FSZ last year, and had changed to LZF this year, eventhough I was advised to go with NPP. LGL ratings are getting worse, but some lads put a lot of weight in the looks, while some, like me, put high importance on calving difficulty. Is there any way to see different calving difficulty for cow versus heifer??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    Nettleman wrote: »
    ... Is there any way to see different calving difficulty for cow versus heifer??
    No, not for the latest Excel proofs. You'll have to wait till they are up fully on the site, 22 Dec 2014.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    Full proofs are up now. Must be working overtime at ICBF.:D


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,619 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Have they shifted the weighting for milk kg? A good few of my cows have gone up.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 37 p dogg


    No, not for the latest Excel proofs. You'll have to wait till they are up fully on the site, 22 Dec 2014.

    I have been looking at the latest proofs on icbf and cant help but notice the kg for milk has decreased for a lot of bulls and especially with the top simmental bulls, could it be due to a bad thrive from weanlings or how exactly is this stat calculated, I really hope that the simmental breed is not going the same direction as other continental breeds losing one of their best attributes and end up like charolais and limousin not fit to rear a weanling sufficiently!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    p dogg wrote: »
    ....

    Q. In the Euro-Star index there is a trait for daughter milk. How does ICBF measure the milking ability of suckler cows?

    A. The milking ability of suckler cows is gauged by the performance of their calves. Calves with the highest average daily gains (ADG’s) in a herd are almost always from the milkiest cows in that herd. In order for this performance to be reflected in genetic indexes, it must be measured and this is done by weighing suckler calves between 150-250 days of age (approx. 5-8 ½ months). A weight on a calf at this age is more commonly known as a “milk weight” and gives a good indication as to the milking ability of the cow that the calf is suckling.
    On-farm weighing is good practice as it gives farmers a detailed insight into the performance of their animals and allows ICBF to reflect the milking performance of suckler cows in genetic evaluations. It is vital that farmers not only weigh their animals but also supply these weights to ICBF. Weights can be recorded through the ICBF website (HerdPlus®) or through a farm software package. If a farmer avails of the ICBF weighing service then weights are automatically uploaded to the ICBF database


    From;
    http://www.icbf.com/?p=1332


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,619 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Q. In the Euro-Star index there is a trait for daughter milk. How does ICBF measure the milking ability of suckler cows?

    A. The milking ability of suckler cows is gauged by the performance of their calves. Calves with the highest average daily gains (ADG’s) in a herd are almost always from the milkiest cows in that herd. In order for this performance to be reflected in genetic indexes, it must be measured and this is done by weighing suckler calves between 150-250 days of age (approx. 5-8 ½ months). A weight on a calf at this age is more commonly known as a “milk weight” and gives a good indication as to the milking ability of the cow that the calf is suckling.
    On-farm weighing is good practice as it gives farmers a detailed insight into the performance of their animals and allows ICBF to reflect the milking performance of suckler cows in genetic evaluations. It is vital that farmers not only weigh their animals but also supply these weights to ICBF. Weights can be recorded through the ICBF website (HerdPlus®) or through a farm software package. If a farmer avails of the ICBF weighing service then weights are automatically uploaded to the ICBF database


    From;
    http://www.icbf.com/?p=1332

    That's fuppin brilliant, I've one cow by a scrub bull that will feed any calf that comes up to her, if her own calf is only being half fed her milk figures are going to be a bit skewed, 'There's lies, damn lies and then there's statistics':confused:

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,241 ✭✭✭✭Kovu


    Does it also take the 'Cow Milking Ability' which is recorded in the Beef Data Program into account? For example, a lot of ours would be average with a few that are very good because of sim/br fr breeding behind them.

    But my average might be another fella's Excellent!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 533 ✭✭✭towzer2010


    I've a CHx cow that's listed as having -8 for milk kg's but no one told her calves as they are always among the best and heaviest calves I have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 p dogg


    Does anyone know when the latest icbf proofs will be out?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,241 ✭✭✭✭Kovu


    p dogg wrote: »
    Does anyone know when the latest icbf proofs will be out?

    April sometime.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    Excel File will be available on 14th April 2015.

    http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=208


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Farrell


    Excel File will be available on 14th April 2015.

    http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=208
    How often do these come out, last one was December.
    Also has anyone received the physical suckler report (I know it's online)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    Seems to be April, August and December. 3 times a year.


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