Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

deisedevil · 09-05-2020 1:43am

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Copy and paste what successful countries have done. Its really that simple. Countries that have minimised deaths and economic damage.

Ah yes. Simples. How did our thickos not think if that? Quick, tell them the error of their ways. Fair play to ya. You must have a serious level of education I'd say.

LiquidZeb · 09-05-2020 1:43am

deisedevil wrote: »

I'm only smart enough to follow those who are most likely to bring me in the right direction. Do that every time in life and you'll seldom get lost.

Have you ever considered that we might be waiting to see how the lifting of restrictions in other countries works out. I was on a conference call with a medical expert presenting there recently and he was telling us that our experts are waiting to see how it works out elsewhere in Europe and if all is well then they can start to bring some lifting of restrictions in earlier. But better to under promise and then over deliver. Otherwise the lemmings might lose it altogether. Sounds like a pretty sensible thing to do.

You know I used the lemmings thing to take the pistachio out of your apparent sense of superiority, I'd hope you have a bit more self awareness not to seriously call people lemmings, Jesus Christ you're not lex luthor

retro:electro · 09-05-2020 1:44am

deisedevil wrote: »

They're trying to squeeze as much out of the restrictions as they can. Setting deadlines of a few weeks and then extending it over and over is supposedly easier for some peoples minds to handle than being told your going to have to do this for 6 months. But some lads have finally realised that. And they're not happy. How dare them fellas trick us into staying safe like that. We'll make up our own minds about how we'll fúck this up, they say.

Setting deadlines and then extending them over and over is unacceptable, unfair and as good as being lied to. I was all for locking down at the start. I’ve been contributing to these threads since March and I was very vocal about Leo pulling the finger out initially, cancelling the parades and getting this curve flattened so our health system isn’t over burdened. We did that. The system is not and was never over whelmed, in fact it’s underwhelmed with many A&E’s deserted and consultations and procedures cancelled. This is just raging lunacy at this point. The rest of Europe is opening up and doing quite well so I don’t see how it makes sense for us to drag this on til the arse end of August.

Industries that can provide genuine and workable solutions in keeping with social distancing measures should be allowed to open up. I’ve no gripes with Tony Holohan he seems nice a decent chap, hardworking and I know he’s under serious pressure, but the decisions shouldn’t be left up to him. As CMO he naturally has the health of the nation in his best interest but our government should have many interests at the centre of their decision making, and yes the economy is a major one. It’s like Leo is totally awe struck and can’t say no to the man, even admitting on The Late Late that barbers opening in stage 4 was a “bone of contention” between the two. Well then put the foot down ya gobshlte you’re the one in charge.

frillyleaf · 09-05-2020 1:46am

prunudo wrote: »

"Dickie 10

so do people think we could be pushed back another 2 weeks of this on may 18th?"

Just carrying this over from the old thread. Yes, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they decided to extend another week or 2 depending how they feel the numbers are going. We're already getting the sound bites, similar in the lead up to May 5th.
But this time I think there would be large scale disobedience, a lot of people I've talked to are gearing up to start back on the 18th regardless of what the government say, they can't take lack of income anymore.

I haven’t seen any indication that they could push back the date again. In fact it is has been positive news that we are doing well.

tobefrank321 · 09-05-2020 1:47am

deisedevil wrote: »

Ah yes. Simples. How did our thickos not think if that? Quick, tell them the error of their ways. Fair play to ya. You must have a serious level of education I'd say.

I'm genuinely confused why you think we shouldn't follow best international practice?

Its obvious our experts didn't.

FintanMcluskey · 09-05-2020 1:48am

retro:electro wrote: »

I’ve no gripes with Tony Holohan he seems nice a decent chap,

I have mostly agreed with your posts but I can't here.

deisedevil · 09-05-2020 1:50am

LiquidZeb wrote: »

You know I used the lemmings thing to take the pistachio out of your apparent sense of superiority, I'd hope you have a bit more self awareness not to seriously call people lemmings, Jesus Christ you're not lex luthor

That's gas. I'm disagreeing with those that feel they have superior knowledge to the experts handling this crisis. My point is, unless you have some sort of solid research done that proves they are doing things wrong then shut up and do what they ask.

Arghus · 09-05-2020 1:50am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

And thats where the stats are innacurate.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXgt8CtX0AE2SiZ.jpg

We can not say if one person that died from/with Covid would be alive today if Covid did not exist

Google Influenza pandemics of 2018 etc and all the info is there.

More stats.

Deaths from Influenza in New York State.

2018 - 4749

2017 - 4517

2016 - 4513

2015 - 4881

2014 - 4702

Deaths from Coronavirus in New York State - 21045

stephenjmcd · 09-05-2020 1:50am

alwald wrote: »

Again, in your first post you mentioned that

And then admitted that other EU countries had the same issue

Do you see your own contradiction or not??

Jesus christ how can you not grasp the whole point.

Some other European countries had issues in nursing homes, the CMO, dept of health, HSE all keep saying we're learning from other countries and our timeline of infection is behind them. Therefore if our timeline of infection is behind them and we're learning from them, how come we repeated the mistakes dispite seeing them happen in other countries and having time to ensure they didn't happen here??

Hence my original point, an investigation or committee whatever government at the time decide when this is over will highly likely find officials made the wrong calls and certain times. Let's see the clamour for a scapegoat within the departments when that happens, in particular to the decision making process surrounding nursing homes.

I can't put it much simpler for you to understand really. If we are behind other European countries then why didn't we learn from their mistakes instead of repeating them

jibber5000 · 09-05-2020 1:51am

alwald wrote: »

What's incredible is your inability to look at the total number of people that needed ICUs with the restrictions versus the number without restrictions and the deaths/chaos that would have followed...sigh!!

You're missing the point completely.

The overwhelming majority of people who unfortunately die from Covid (>95%) had extremely poor long term survival prior to contracting the virus.

For a disease that disporportionately kills the very sick and elderly, we are taking draconian measures affecting the livelihoods of the entire population. I do find that incredible.

LiquidZeb · 09-05-2020 1:55am

deisedevil wrote: »

That's gas. I'm disagreeing with those that feel they have superior knowledge to the experts handling this crisis. My point is, unless you have some sort of solid research done that proves they are doing things wrong then shut up and do what they ask.

So anyone whose livelihood is affected by the lockdown should shut up too? I'm guessing you're Elon musk levels of wealthy so youve nothing to worry about, leave that to the lemmings.

deisedevil · 09-05-2020 1:57am

retro:electro wrote: »

Setting deadlines and then extending them over and over is unacceptable, unfair and as good as being lied to. I was all for locking down at the start. I’ve been contributing to these threads since March and I was very vocal about Leo pulling the finger out initially, cancelling the parades and getting this curve flattened so our health system isn’t over burdened. We did that. The system is not and was never over whelmed, in fact it’s underwhelmed with many A&E’s deserted and consultations and procedures cancelled. This is just raging lunacy at this point. The rest of Europe is opening up and doing quite well so I don’t see how it makes sense for us to drag this on til the arse end of August.

Industries that can provide genuine and workable solutions in keeping with social distancing measures should be allowed to open up. I’ve no gripes with Tony Holohan he seems nice a decent chap, hardworking and I know he’s under serious pressure, but the decisions shouldn’t be left up to him. As CMO he naturally has the health of the nation in his best interest but our government should have many interests at the centre of their decision making, and yes the economy is a major one. It’s like Leo is totally awe struck and can’t say no to the man, even admitting on The Late Late that barbers opening in stage 4 was a “bone of contention” between the two. Well then put the foot down ya gobshlte you’re the one in charge.

So Leo should put the foot down because he would understand the risks of that better than the CMO. Brilliant.

I heard a psychologist talking on Newstalk before the restrictions came in and he was saying that what would happen is that restrictions would be brought in bit by bit and then extended bit by bit. It would be done like this because there are too many people who wouldn't be able to handle being told the total extent of the restrictions and the length of time in one go. I'd rather find out up front myself and have it all open and honest because I know I could handle it. But thinking of my own friends and family, I know that there's quiet a few that would have just completely gone against it if they knew the extent of it from the beginning. And where would we be then.

alwald · 09-05-2020 1:59am

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Jesus christ how can you not grasp the whole point.

Some other European countries had issues in nursing homes, the CMO, dept of health, HSE all keep saying we're learning from other countries and our timeline of infection is behind them. Therefore if our timeline of infection is behind them and we're learning from them, how come we repeated the mistakes dispite seeing them happen in other countries and having time to ensure they didn't happen here??

Hence my original point, an investigation or committee whatever government at the time decide when this is over will highly likely find officials made the wrong calls and certain times. Let's see the clamour for a scapegoat within the departments when that happens, in particular to the decision making process surrounding nursing homes.

I can't put it much simpler for you to understand really. If we are behind other European countries then why didn't we learn from their mistakes instead of repeating them

You really don't understand...you accuse the CMO/HSE of negligence and yet you are unable to prove that their actions in relation to nursing homes were far behind their counterparts in the rest of the EU.
Do you even get that this is a new virus and thus nothing is/was crystal clear about it from the beginning??

vid36 · 09-05-2020 1:59am

setanta1984 wrote: »

Just look at that graphic from the Guardian. It's utterly depressing to see how far literally every country(bar the UK) has progressed by week commencing May 11. We are literally 3 months behind all of this. We had double digit new cases outside care homes this week.

Schools, childcare, shops, bars, restaurants, hotels, museums, hairdressers, car dealerships, cinemas, even professional sports and gatherings up to 100, all in various parts of the continent.

How can people justify us being so radically different to basically everywhere?

We are not that different. Many parts of France including the Greater Paris region are staying in lockdown next week. Lille, Strasbourg and all the departments North East of Paris up to the German and Belgian borders will be in lockdown. In Spain, Madrid, Catalonia, Valencia and the Basque region are all staying in lockdown.

alwald · 09-05-2020 2:02am

jibber5000 wrote: »

You're missing the point completely.

The overwhelming majority of people who unfortunately die from Covid (>95%) had extremely poor long term survival prior to contracting the virus.

For a disease that disporportionately kills the very sick and elderly, we are taking draconian measures affecting the livelihoods of the entire population. I do find that incredible.

I am afraid to tell you that you are missing the point indeed.
No restrictions = more deaths and chaos just like Italy/Spain in their early stages.

On top of that, why most EU countries took strong measures then if the virus wasn't as dangerous as you suggest?

deisedevil · 09-05-2020 2:02am

LiquidZeb wrote: »

So anyone whose livelihood is affected by the lockdown should shut up too? I'm guessing you're Elon musk levels of wealthy so youve nothing to worry about, leave that to the lemmings.

That's the balancing act the experts are trying to make. Between lives and the economy. Some people want to side more with the economy.

I'll be grand for sure. I've nothing to worry about thankfully. Will have to suffer the effects of another recessions but I'll manage. Plenty of my family won't be grand and it's tough on them but they'll survive and I'll help them out if I can.

Lifting the restrictions asap to save businesses now will look very foolish if deaths start to spike and we end up losing many people and have to go back to the restrctions again. That's when many many more jobs will be lost.

FintanMcluskey · 09-05-2020 2:05am

vid36 wrote: »

We are not that different. Many parts of France including the Greater Paris region are staying in lockdown next week. Lille, Strasbourg and all the departments North East of Paris up to the German and Belgian borders will be in lockdown. In Spain, Madrid, Catalonia, Valencia and the Basque region are all staying in lockdown.

Fair enough. Places with multiple times the population of Ireland in a 10th of the area are remaining in lockdown for another short while

stephenjmcd · 09-05-2020 2:08am

alwald wrote: »

You really don't understand...you accuse the CMO/HSE of negligence and yet you are unable to prove that their actions in relation to nursing homes were far behind their counterparts in the rest of the EU.
Do you even get that this is a new virus and thus nothing is/was crystal clear about it from the beginning??

I'm sorry but I'm afraid it's you who doesn't understand, and that's not a first on here. Seems to be a common theme in your interactions with other posters.

Are you suggesting that the CMOs / NPHET order to nursing homes to not ban visitors wasn't negligent ?? I would say it was negligent to advise them to remain open, nursing homes took it upon themselves to lockdown when advised not to yet look at the mess they're in. If they followed the CMO and dept of health advice to keep allowing visitors in I dread to think what state they would be in now. That advice to remain open based on the quite clear experience of other countries is negligent.

As I've said now multiple times we're being told we're learning from other countries, what did we learn regarding nursing homes ?? Looks like absolutely nothing, so yes both department of health and HSE have to take some blame for that.

I'd love to carry on this discussion all night but I fear I'd tire myself out having to explain it to you time and time again when it really is quite simple.Have a wonderful night.

LiquidZeb · 09-05-2020 2:08am

deisedevil wrote: »

That's the balancing act the experts are trying to make. Between lives and the economy. Some people want to side more with the economy.

I'll be grand for sure. I've nothing to worry about thankfully. Will have to suffer the effects of another recessions but I'll manage. Plenty of my family won't be grand and it's tough on them but they'll survive and I'll help them out if I can.

Lifting the restrictions asap to save businesses now will look very foolish if deaths start to spike and we end up losing many people and have to go back to the restrctions again. That's when many many more jobs will be lost.

But no ones on about lifting everything all at once. The virus will still be around on the 18th. It'll still be here in June July and August. Leo saying it's alright to get a haircut or go back to the office doesnt make the virus magically vanish. Also working on the assumption the German or Austrian government have slipped up somehow with relaxing restrictions is a gamble you'll lose every time.

FintanMcluskey · 09-05-2020 2:08am

alwald wrote: »

I am afraid to tell you that you are missing the point indeed.
No restrictions = more deaths and chaos just like Italy/Spain in their early stages.

Couldn't happen. Just couldn't happen.
Many multiples more million of the vunerable population in those countries was the reason for the numbers seen in Italy and Spain

Arghus · 09-05-2020 2:09am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

And thats where the stats are innacurate.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXgt8CtX0AE2SiZ.jpg

We can not say if one person that died from/with Covid would be alive today if Covid did not exist

Google Influenza pandemics of 2018 etc and all the info is there.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/annual-flu-reports

Stats from the UK. Deaths associated with influenza

2014/15 - 28000

2015/16 - 12000

2016/17 - 18000

2017/18 - 26000

2018/19 - 1692 (season was incomplete at the time of publication)

Deaths associated with Covid 19 -31,241 ( and the number continues to grow)

Once again, over a much shorter period and with widespread measures in place to try to curb the spread and taking into account the UK's under reporting of deaths. It still comes out more deadly.

deisedevil · 09-05-2020 2:10am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Couldn't happen. Just couldn't happen.
Many multiples more million of the vunerable population in those countries was the reason for the numbers seen in Italy and Spain

So we didn't need to do anything here and we'd be grand. We've the wrong lads in the job alright.

FintanMcluskey · 09-05-2020 2:10am

Arghus wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/annual-flu-reports

Stats from the UK. Deaths associated with influenza

2014/15 - 28000

2015/16 - 12000

2016/17 - 18000

2017/18 - 26000

2018/19 - 1692 (season was incomplete at the time of publication)

Deaths associated with Covid 19 -31,241.

Once again, over a much shorter period and with widespread measures in place to try to curb the spread. It still comes out more deadly.

It doesn't because of the notifibility of Covid. Suggestions are that cancer and heart disease deaths have dropped greatly in April and May because those deaths are now accounted to Covid

FintanMcluskey · 09-05-2020 2:11am

deisedevil wrote: »

So we didn't need to do anything here and we'd be grand. We've the wrong lads in the job alright.

Well explain Sweden so

alwald · 09-05-2020 2:11am

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I'm sorry but I'm afraid it's you who doesn't understand, and that's not a first on here. Seems to be a common theme in your interactions with other posters.

Are you suggesting that the CMOs / NPHET order to nursing homes to not ban visitors wasn't negligent ?? I would say it was negligent to advise them to remain open, nursing homes took it upon themselves to lockdown when advised not to yet look at the mess they're in. If they followed the CMO and dept of health advice to keep allowing visitors in I dread to think what state they would be in now. That advice to remain open based on the quite clear experience of other countries is negligent.

As I've said now multiple times we're being told we're learning from other countries, what did we learn regarding nursing homes ?? Looks like absolutely nothing, so yes both department of health and HSE have to take some blame for that.

I'd love to carry on this discussion all night but I fear I'd tire myself out having to explain it to you time and time again when it really is quite simple.Have a wonderful night.

Indeed I am getting tired explaining to you and its late...for your own information you are the only one talking/being confused about nursing home as I didn't bring this topic myself.
You started waffling about it without being fully informed and you made wrong accusations Stephen which is normal looking at the quality of your posts :pac:

deisedevil · 09-05-2020 2:13am

LiquidZeb wrote: »

But no ones on about lifting everything all at once. The virus will still be around on the 18th. It'll still be here in June July and August. Leo saying it's alright to get a haircut or go back to the office doesnt make the virus magically vanish. Also working on the assumption the German or Austrian government have slipped up somehow with relaxing restrictions is a gamble you'll lose every time.

So let's hold on and see how they get on with it. We're a good bit behind them from when we started seeing our first cases to when they saw theirs. If their right, then great. We can remove restrictions earlier than announced. If they get it wrong though, we'll be able to adjust our approach. We can watch and see what works and doesn't work for them.

Arghus · 09-05-2020 2:15am

Fair play to you Fintan your ability to argue black is white is bordering on the miraculous.

jibber5000 · 09-05-2020 2:15am

alwald wrote: »

I am afraid to tell you that you are missing the point indeed.
No restrictions = more deaths and chaos just like Italy/Spain in their early stages.

On top of that, why most EU countries took strong measures then if the virus wasn't as dangerous as you suggest?

Where did I suggest we take no restrictions and where did I say the virus wasn't dangerous?

I said, as our ICU figures prove, >95% of those who died had very poor prospects of long term survival.

With this evidence at hand, we should now be opening up most businesses whilst maintaining social distancing where possible. I think most people are now coming around to this way of thinking.

alwald · 09-05-2020 2:16am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Couldn't happen. Just couldn't happen.
Many multiples more million of the vunerable population in those countries was the reason for the numbers seen in Italy and Spain

The reason for the numbers in Italy/Spain was directly linked to the number of people, regardless of their age/health, that needed ICU beds to survive,...I hope that you agree with this as it's common knowledge right??

deisedevil · 09-05-2020 2:18am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Well explain Sweden so

Why don't you explain it?

Every country is completely different. It's not a one size fits all for every country and .

By the way, Sweden have more deaths per million of population than we do and in this country we are including all deaths, including nursing home figures and outside of hospital deaths unlike in some countries. So Sweden aren't doing anything amazing at all now in fairness.

vid36 · 09-05-2020 2:20am

There are over 3,000 dead in Sweden and many more to come unfortunately.

alwald · 09-05-2020 2:22am

jibber5000 wrote: »

The best way to analyse the health of those that died from Covid isn't by their age. Its by looking at the numbers who have died in ICU.

In Ireland approx 65 people have died in our ICU's.

This means out of all the people that died, only 65 were viewed as having a decent chance at recovery.

And we've shut down our entire country for 4 months knowing that number. It's incredible.

jibber5000 wrote: »

Where did I suggest we take no restrictions and where did I say the virus wasn't dangerous?

I said, as our ICU figures prove, >95% of those who died had very poor prospects of long term survival.

With this evidence at hand, we should now be opening up most businesses whilst maintaining social distancing where possible. I think most people are now coming around to this way of thinking.

You said in your first post what ICU deaths are the best measurement, right? And I replied that this measurement is only applicable based on the current restrictions which means that:
No restrictions = more deaths

I am afraid that a 5 year old child would understand this so no need for me to explain further

setanta1984 · 09-05-2020 2:24am

vid36 wrote: »

We are not that different. Many parts of France including the Greater Paris region are staying in lockdown next week. Lille, Strasbourg and all the departments North East of Paris up to the German and Belgian borders will be in lockdown. In Spain, Madrid, Catalonia, Valencia and the Basque region are all staying in lockdown.

Huh? So a couple of french and spanish regions being slightly behind the rest of their country equates to Ireland being “not that different” to all those measures that are lifting this week/already lifted listed in that graphic? Seriously?

stephenjmcd · 09-05-2020 2:29am

deisedevil wrote: »

Why don't you explain it?

Every country is completely different. It's not a one size fits all for every country and .

By the way, Sweden have more deaths per million of population than we do and in this country we are including all deaths, including nursing home figures and outside of hospital deaths unlike in some countries. So Sweden aren't doing anything amazing at all now in fairness.

Anyone who's studied data analytics knows that quite often you discard the outlier as it can cause serious issues with statistical analysis. In the case of covid in the EU region, Sweden is said outlier. I wouldn't be comparing us or anyone else against them. They're on their own in the dataset as an experiment basically.

jibber5000 · 09-05-2020 2:32am

alwald wrote: »

You said in your first post what ICU deaths are the best measurement, right? And I replied that this measurement is only applicable based on the current restrictions which means that:
No restrictions = more deaths

I am afraid that a 5 year old child would understand this so no need for me to explain further

You really don't have a clue. Who mentioned no restrictions?

I said, for the third time, that >95% of those that died did so outside ICU. Even if the number of deaths goes up that figure will remain the same

Do you understand the criteria for ICU admission?

alwald · 09-05-2020 2:38am

jibber5000 wrote: »

You really don't have a clue. Who mentioned no restrictions?

I said, for the third time, that >95% of those that died did so outside ICU. Even if the number of deaths goes up that figure will remain the same

Do you understand the criteria for ICU admission?

I give up as you are not even reading/backing up the content of your previous posts.

deisedevil · 09-05-2020 2:40am

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Anyone who's studied data analytics knows that quite often you discard the outlier as it can cause serious issues with statistical analysis. In the case of covid in the EU region, Sweden is said outlier. I wouldn't be comparing us or anyone else against them. They're on their own in the dataset as an experiment basically.

I'm confused. Did you read what I was responding to?

Thanks for the very basic stats lesson too.

stephenjmcd · 09-05-2020 2:47am

deisedevil wrote: »

I'm confused. Did you read what I was responding to?

Thanks for the very basic stats lesson too.

Should have been a reply to the original poster who said explain Sweden that you were replying to instead I quoted your post apologies.

jibber5000 · 09-05-2020 2:51am

alwald wrote: »

I give up as you are not even reading/backing up the content of your previous posts.

My previous posts stated that 95% of people who have died here, were not deemed fit for ICU admission.
So we know, from this figure, that it's people with multiple co-morbidities who are dying. Even if our numbers increase why can you not comprehend that this figure will remain roughly the same?

For a disease that so grossly affects a subset of our population, to lockdown our entire workforce for months on end is wreckless at best.

You're completely ignoring the recession we're voluntarily plunging ourselves into. Never mind the missed hospital appointments and elective surgeries which still have not been rescheduled in most hospitals.

If you think there'll be no lives lost due to our restrictive measures you're delusional.

Tell me how · 09-05-2020 3:21am

CruelSummer wrote: »

Can I ask people here defending NPHET and Tony Holohan - why are they given absolute power over us? They are unelected, unanswerable to us as voters and don’t care about anything other than covering themselves, I’ve lost respect for the people in charge.
Data shows we should be re-opening yesterday not in August.

Because they are experts in the areas of infectious diseases, public health and the capacity of the health system and the acting Taoiseach, himself a Dr, has the belief that experts should direct policy in the event the rapid occurrence of the worst pandemic in 100 years.

I am in my early 40's and most of my life I have heard nothing but complaints about elected politicians not being experts themselves and how we should have people who know what they are talking about directing policy.

Now it seems we do, and still it's unacceptable to some.

You'd swear they weren't aware of the impact of the serious imbalance of money out versus money in which has been going on for the last 7 weeks or whatever it is.

I'm not saying everything they are doing is perfect or that the proposed plan must be adhered to as it has been outlined between now and August (I don't think it will be) but reading Boards throughout this period has convinced me we will never as a country be truly happy with our elected representatives in government. There will always be something to complain about from a significant proportion of the people. Not the same people all the time mind, and that is another thing that people on all sides are aggrieved about, 'Why doesn't everyone else just see it from my point of view!!'.

Quantum Erasure · 09-05-2020 3:41am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It doesn't because of the notifibility of Covid. Suggestions are that cancer and heart disease deaths have dropped greatly in April and May because those deaths are now accounted to Covid

any source for that?

here's my reply to you from a couple weeks ago, updated. [newer figures will be out tuesday, I'll post them here too...]

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

this is from 5 years ago, but

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25

and this shows this year, and average for last 5 years [updated]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/latest

and we're not half way through this yet

amadangomor · 09-05-2020 3:55am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Haha.
Merkel has more balls than our leaders. And I mean her no disrespect, but shes a leader who doesn't lead behind a cloak of fear. Someone to respect

So much so she let a million plus immigrants in that are causing major social problems there:rolleyes:

GreenandRed · 09-05-2020 4:25am

Tell me how wrote: »

Because they are experts in the areas of infectious diseases, public health and the capacity of the health system and the acting Taoiseach, himself a Dr, has the belief that experts should direct policy in the event the rapid occurrence of the worst pandemic in 100 years.

I am in my early 40's and most of my life I have heard nothing but complaints about elected politicians not being experts themselves and how we should have people who know what they are talking about directing policy.

Now it seems we do, and still it's unacceptable to some.

You'd swear they weren't aware of the impact of the serious imbalance of money out versus money in which has been going on for the last 7 weeks or whatever it is.

I'm not saying everything they are doing is perfect or that the proposed plan must be adhered to as it has been outlined between now and August (I don't think it will be) but reading Boards throughout this period has convinced me we will never as a country be truly happy with our elected representatives in government. There will always be something to complain about from a significant proportion of the people. Not the same people all the time mind, and that is another thing that people on all sides are aggrieved about, 'Why doesn't everyone else just see it from my point of view!!'.

Don't take Boards or other social media as being a good barometer of the nation's opinions. Too many posters quick to criticise decision makers but don't propose an alternative. Just a small proportion of the population post their opinions and the number of people posting is a fraction of the number of posters.....

pjohnson · 09-05-2020 7:58am

Ah back to the Tony being unelected line.

Yep. I wish all doctors were elected doctors instead of educated!

I think my gardener should be CMO, he's a sound guy.

gozunda · 09-05-2020 8:55am

tobefrank321 wrote: »

At no stage did Britain deliberately destroy their own economy during WW2 despite facing an enemy far more dangerous to the general population than covid 19.

Are you just adding stuff now to score points or what now ?

And thats bollox. The UK had to borrow heavily to pay for ability to keep its economy afloat during WW2. After WW2 the UK was on its knees and had amassed an immense debt of £21 billion. The UK then signed the Anglo-American Loan Agreement with the United States to enable the UK to keep its battered economy afloat further. Austerity and rationing continued even after the war.

And it wasn't until 2006, that the UK made a final payment of £45.5m and discharged the last of its war loans from the US.

And why the fuk are you comparing Nazi Germany as an enemy with Covid-19? Thats just deranged. They both constitute threats but they are different. It does not follow we have to put up our hands and surrender because some eejits would prefer that.

Ireland is just one country of many facing huge financial issues arising from the pandemic. That is known. It's not like the restictions wont be lifted. They will. That has already been detailed.

The point on the previous comment btw that there were serious restrictions during WW2 and people just got on with it.

PowerToWait · 09-05-2020 9:27am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It doesn't because of the notifibility of Covid. Suggestions are that cancer and heart disease deaths have dropped greatly in April and May because those deaths are now accounted to Covid

Look at the average deaths for the same period, say April, over the previous 5 years and compare to this year. There’s around 13000 more this year. With strict restrictions in place.

is_that_so · 09-05-2020 9:32am

CruelSummer wrote: »

Can I ask people here defending NPHET and Tony Holohan - why are they given absolute power over us? They are unelected, unanswerable to us as voters and don’t care about anything other than covering themselves, I’ve lost respect for the people in charge.
Data shows we should be re-opening yesterday not in August.

They aren't. They issue advice, which has then been applied by the government. It's that scenario of employing someone who can do what you can't. They are ubercautious about all of this and not inclined to move at a pace they don't believe will be beneficial to the management of the outbreak. BTW what data are you referring to?

gozunda · 09-05-2020 9:42am

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Yep. I think its ironic that Italy is more relaxed than us in 3 weeks time. In fact months ahead by then. Heads will have to roll here

Chxrst on a bike. From that comment- is there any real grasp of reality - seriously?

Italy was under very strict stay at home orders for eight weeks. Ireland is currently at week 6. We are well behind them at this point in time in terms of restrictions.

However it remains both Italy and Ireland now have a planned and phased easing of restrictions where the restrictions will be rolled back gradually but only when a lid is kept on the rate of infection.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Not proven yet. Covid is becoming less lethal the more that is discovered. My point is more people died in the flu seasons recently than Covid. We may all have blood on our hands applying your theory

Incorrect. Wrong. 1,429 people have died in Ireland to date due to Covid-19

The yearly stats for Ireland show that during the 2019/2020 season, there were 103 deaths of notified influenza cases.

Tbh your comments come across as pure political pot stirring. I do hope you are getting paid for that rubbish because most of it makes no sense whatsoever.

magic17 · 09-05-2020 9:48am

vid36 wrote: »

There are over 3,000 dead in Sweden and many more to come unfortunately.

According to Google they have a population of 10 million. We have a population of 5 million. They have 3,000 deaths. We have 1,400. Seems like we are both doing just about the same to me yet we're being kept from having any sort of life whatsoever.

snotboogie · 09-05-2020 9:56am

gozunda wrote: »

Ireland is just one country of many facing huge financial issues arising from the pandemic. That is known. It's not like the restictions wont be lifted. They will. That has already been detailed.

It hasn't been detailed. It has been detailed how we get to a point where we can do as much as possible with social distancing. There is no timeline to lift social distancing. Social distancing is by far the most intrusive measure introduced here and there are no plans to lift it. There is currently no path out of this

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings