the 'there's no such thing as a stupid question' bike maintenance thread

magicbastarder · 15-05-2021 3:34pm

you shouldn't be going big-big anyway. but yes, your chain should be long enough to accomodate it to prevent damage to the RD if you do end up in that combination.

Type 17 · 15-05-2021 5:53pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

...your chain should be long enough to accomodate it to prevent damage to the RD if you do end up in that combination.

Very true, here's a pic showing what happens when the chain is too short and the rider puts it into big/big on a hill - not only was the RD ruined, the rear wheel was dragged out of the dropouts, but not before the chainstay failed (carbon frame destroyed).

nicksnikita · 15-05-2021 6:21pm

Type 17 wrote: »

Very true, here's a pic showing what happens when the chain is too short and the rider puts it into big/big on a hill - not only was the RD ruined, the rear wheel was dragged out of the dropouts, but not before the chainstay failed (carbon frame destroyed).

But it’s all good - it’s still in big-big

Weepsie · 15-05-2021 6:34pm

Have taken delivery of s campagnolo groupset. Everything I have however is Shimano/sram tools and all.

I know different cables are needed, what of the tool for the bottom bracket and chainsrt installation. I've stuff for Hollowtech/Gxp and square taper but nothing for an ultratorque one.

Also, I'm righting in thinking an 11 speed Shimano cassette will work fine with a campy chain and chainset?

07Lapierre · 15-05-2021 6:41pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Have taken delivery of s campagnolo groupset. Everything I have however is Shimano/sram tools and all.

I know different cables are needed, what of the tool for the bottom bracket and chainsrt installation. I've stuff for Hollowtech/Gxp and square taper but nothing for an ultratorque one.

Also, I'm righting in thinking an 11 speed Shimano cassette will work fine with a campy chain and chainset?

Yes. You'll need a Campagnolo specific tool to tighten the Campagnolo BB cups.

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwi6nrKknczwAhUK1O0KHTa8ACkYABAQGgJkZw&sig=AOD64_1S1iGb9YQ52KFScBw6Oqbl-Dg2eQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwjilaaknczwAhXKTBUIHVqpCX0Qwg96BAgBEDQ&adurl=

Weepsie · 15-05-2021 7:23pm

The expense grows, plus I'll inevitably mess up and end up bringing it to humphries so might just do that anyway

15-05-2021 9:37pm

Finally got round to installing the Power2max on the supplied Rotor cranks, it says to tighten them to 33Nm yet my torque wrench only goes to 24Nm but even getting that tight was a struggle and with my spaghetti arms I doubt even if I had a torque wrench that went to 33 I would even be able to turn it. I presume 24Nm will be good enough?

cletus · 15-05-2021 10:13pm

There's a couple of factors at play here. First off, torque wrenches are most accurate when used in the middle of their range. Secondly, 33 nm is about 24ft lbs in old money, so while not a huge amount of torque, the length of your lever will directly affect your ability to apply torque. Cheater bars are often used for this application.

If you got another torque wrench that covered 33 nm somewhere in the middle of the range, the handle would likely be longer, giving more leverage.

Apart from all that, I wouldn't be overly worried about the torque spec unless in on carbon fibre. Just do the fasteners up good and tight

Type 17 · 16-05-2021 9:01am

As cletus says, torque settings for most applications can be done by feel, based on the items being clean (no rusty threads or facing surfaces under the fastener head) and taking into account the springiness of the items being fastened.

It's well understood these days that items made of non-springy materials can be damaged by over-torquing (carbon fibre, most grades of aluminium).

However items where a lot of force goes through the fastened joint (bicycle cranks, pedals, car-engine parts*, etc) also need to be torqued correctly - too loose and the high forces will cause movement, leading to facing-surface wear/damage and the fastener may even be worked loose (not a great scenario with bike cranks!).

TBH, I'd borrow a torque wrench that covers 33Nm before going out for a long/hard ride.

*Bicycle torque settings are very low overall - most engine cylinder-head bolts get torqued to over 100Nm, and the bolt for the front crank pulley on some Audi engines is torqued to 250Nm (it wouldn't be worth making a torque wrench that can handle 250Nm, as it would be expensive and not used enough to justify buying it, so an Audi geared tool is used, which multiplies a specified lower torque (about 100Nm) up to 250Nm).

velo.2010 · 16-05-2021 5:18pm

Don't buy cheap gear cable when replacing a worn cable!! I fell foul of that false economy after the sudden failure of a long lasting rear mech cable. Went into CSS and found only €30 cable sets on display — sure I wasn't paying that to replace one cable. Asked a mechanic for anything in the back and he came out and gave me a loop of cable for €1.50! I should have known... Cue continously slackening shifting for the past week or so.

I've ordered some quality Jagwire cable and hope that resolves the shifting issue. Oh, and bought some PFTE tubing on ebay to use as a cable guide to avoid the PITA that is running cable through internally routed frames.

Type 17 · 16-05-2021 5:38pm

All brake and gear cable inner wires (even good quality stuff like Jagwire) need pre-stretching before final indexing.

Feed it through the pinch-bolt, shift to the fully-pulled gear (big sprocket for RD, big ring for FD) then give the cable a stretch (with your hand on an exposed section, but you can use the shifter on fully-enclosed cables) and then pull the cable through the pinch bolt again, finish off with the barrel adjuster if required.

The €1.50 cable has probably finished stretching now, so if you don't want the hassle of changing it again, give it a final stretch to be sure and index it one more time, and it should stay set up.

16-05-2021 9:18pm

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice, managed to get the power meter with cranks and existing chainrings installed on the bike. Hopefully if the weather holds tomorrow I'll get a chance to try it outside :-)

The only difficulty I encountered was getting the drive side crank in all the way, I had to hit it harder than I would have liked using a DIY rubber mallet which I made by wrapping an old inner tube around a normal hammer.

Hope you don't mind but I've decided to give away the old cranks and spider to the first person that asked.

adrian522 · 17-05-2021 10:46am

Ever since I dropped my bike in for its free 6 week service I'm having trouble with noise from the front derailleur. But worse than that yesterday it wasn't shifting onto the lower ring at times. A couple of times I needed to use my hand to push it in.

Any idea what causes this, is it an easy fix or should I drop it back into the shop?

Maidhci · 17-05-2021 11:42am

adrian522 wrote: »

Ever since I dropped my bike in for its free 6 week service I'm having trouble with noise from the front derailleur. But worse than that yesterday it wasn't shifting onto the lower ring at times. A couple of times I needed to use my hand to push it in.

Any idea what causes this, is it an easy fix or should I drop it back into the shop?

I would definitely drop it back to the shop again before I would attempt to fix it. It should be very easy for them to make the necessary adjustments. Explain that the problem has arisen since the service etc. Have you used this bike shop before or do you know if they have a good reputation for servicing etc.

Weepsie · 17-05-2021 1:40pm

I'm living to regret this campagnolo groupset choice.

BB that came with it is English threaded, and so now I don't know which of the ultra torque BBS I need. There seems to be 2-3 options depending on age or model of crank.

I'd presume it just the standard one but still.

Regretting not buying the campy carbon brake pads from fat bloke on ear too.

07Lapierre · 17-05-2021 2:40pm

Weepsie wrote: »

I'm living to regret this campagnolo groupset choice.

BB that came with it is English threaded, and so now I don't know which of the ultra torque BBS I need. There seems to be 2-3 options depending on age or model of crank.

I'd presume it just the standard one but still.

Regretting not buying the campy carbon brake pads from fat bloke on ear too.

I fitted these to a Ribble Frame (68mm BSA thread)
https://www.mantel.com/ie/campagnolo-record-ultratorque-cups

Weepsie · 17-05-2021 2:44pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

I fitted these to a Ribble Frame (68mm BSA thread)
https://www.mantel.com/ie/campagnolo-record-ultratorque-cups

I need the Italian thread which is out of stock and wiggle and CRC give conflicting information regarding it working with the 11 speed centaur.

Also, the centaur shifters are teeny. I'll be like zoolander and his anger about the tiny school

17-05-2021 7:22pm

Bit of a disaster today, although it's my fault for not checking everything was working perfectly before setting off. Ever since the reinstallation of the new cranks I'm having trouble shifting in the front chainrings the front derailleur drop's the chain in-between the big and small cog at first I was able to free it and get it back on but now the chain has jammed. I've attached a picture of what I mean.

putting a positive spin on things I managed to not crash and I wasn't too far from home.

07Lapierre · 17-05-2021 7:35pm

Weepsie wrote: »

I need the Italian thread which is out of stock and wiggle and CRC give conflicting information regarding it working with the 11 speed centaur.

Also, the centaur shifters are teeny. I'll be like zoolander and his anger about the tiny school

Can't see how wouldn't work with a cantaur chainset. I suppose you could ask the supplier you are buying from to confirm that they are compatible?

Type 17 · 17-05-2021 8:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Bit of a disaster today, although it's my fault for not checking everything was working perfectly before setting off. Ever since the reinstallation of the new cranks I'm having trouble shifting in the front chainrings the front derailleur drop's the chain in-between the big and small cog at first I was able to free it and get it back on but now the chain has jammed. I've attached a picture of what I mean.

putting a positive spin on things I managed to not crash and I wasn't too far from home.

The chain shouldn't be able to get in between the rings like that - do the crank manufacturers say that you can use Shimano rings? (I presume so, given that those rings have a Shimano-unique bolt pattern).

Is there any way to get them closer together? (remove spacers, etc)

Brian? · 17-05-2021 8:10pm

adrian522 wrote: »

Ever since I dropped my bike in for its free 6 week service I'm having trouble with noise from the front derailleur. But worse than that yesterday it wasn't shifting onto the lower ring at times. A couple of times I needed to use my hand to push it in.

Any idea what causes this, is it an easy fix or should I drop it back into the shop?

Drop of oil down the cable outers and on thr derailleur spring

ednwireland · 17-05-2021 8:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Bit of a disaster today, although it's my fault for not checking everything was working perfectly before setting off. Ever since the reinstallation of the new cranks I'm having trouble shifting in the front chainrings the front derailleur drop's the chain in-between the big and small cog at first I was able to free it and get it back on but now the chain has jammed. I've attached a picture of what I mean.

putting a positive spin on things I managed to not crash and I wasn't too far from home.

i had that happen out in the burren once, que sitting at the side of the road taking chain ring apart to get the chain out. at least it was a nice day. never happened again

17-05-2021 9:10pm

Looks like I will be getting more use out of my DIY rubber mallet, I suspect I put the inner chainring on back to front.

There is an image here in this thread that explains what I mean.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chain-getting-stuck-between-chainrings/

cletus · 17-05-2021 9:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looks like I will be getting more use out of my DIY rubber mallet, I suspect I put the inner chainring on back to front.

There is an image here in this thread that explains what I mean.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chain-getting-stuck-between-chainrings/

At least it's a relatively easy fix, and it's all a learning curve

CramCycle · 18-05-2021 9:47am

adrian522 wrote: »

Ever since I dropped my bike in for its free 6 week service I'm having trouble with noise from the front derailleur. But worse than that yesterday it wasn't shifting onto the lower ring at times. A couple of times I needed to use my hand to push it in.

Any idea what causes this, is it an easy fix or should I drop it back into the shop?

Check the chainring bolts if its a Shimano 4 bolt, they sometimes are not tightened enough and if one or two come loose shifting becomes intermittent in its success and a chain can drop between the two. The sooner you check it the less likely you are too do any other damage to it.

RebelButtMunch · 18-05-2021 9:49am

Maidhci wrote: »

I would definitely drop it back to the shop again before I would attempt to fix it. It should be very easy for them to make the necessary adjustments. Explain that the problem has arisen since the service etc. Have you used this bike shop before or do you know if they have a good reputation for servicing etc.

Yeah I'd bring it back too, it sounds like it could be a cable that's not tightened properly

Brian? · 18-05-2021 9:59am

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Yeah I'd bring it back too, it sounds like it could be a cable that's not tightened properly

If it's not shifting down it's because there is too much tension on the cable or the cable tension isn't released because it's catching somewhere.

Weepsie · 18-05-2021 8:37pm

Well i know this isn't normal and I certainly didn't notice it the other day, but did this morn.

What the video doesn't show is the BB itself moving quite a lot. I've never had that much play in a bb before.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WRs8VLhJtuEtpRqq8

Bottom Bracket is maybe a year old, previous one lasted 4 years, albeit it was the expensive ceramic bearings.

Went to remove it and it won't budge at all. Italian Threaded GXP so it's tightened/loosened the same direction both sides. Was going to be coming off anyway for the Ultratorque one, but now I'm worried the shell might be damaged or loose if this is even possible.

adrian522 · 18-05-2021 10:02pm

Brian? wrote: »

If it's not shifting down it's because there is too much tension on the cable or the cable tension isn't released because it's catching somewhere.

Sounds likely I think as tightening the cables is pretty much what they do during these 6 week services.

tdf7187 · 20-05-2021 4:25pm

Can anyone help me with this, the gap between my rear derailleur and cassette seems far too large. Everywhere I look online says the gap should be between 5 and 9 mm depending on the bike, it is much larger than that on mine. I tried adjusting the gap adjuster ("B Screw") to little effect. Gear change functions ok, could be a little smoother:

hesker · 20-05-2021 4:35pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

Can anyone help me with this, the gap between my rear derailleur and cassette seems far too large. Everywhere I look online says the gap should be between 5 and 9 mm depending on the bike, it is much larger than that on mine. I tried adjusting the gap adjuster ("B Screw") to little effect. Gear change functions ok, could be a little smoother:

What happens if you remove b screw altogether

Chain might be too long. Can you post a pic from a bit further away

tdf7187 · 20-05-2021 4:37pm

^ Removed B-Screw, screwed it back in but only a few turns. Distance now better but still slightly too big, approx 1cm maybe a little more.

Yeah was thinking you meant chain too long rather than too short.

Weepsie · 20-05-2021 5:04pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Well i know this isn't normal and I certainly didn't notice it the other day, but did this morn.

What the video doesn't show is the BB itself moving quite a lot. I've never had that much play in a bb before.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WRs8VLhJtuEtpRqq8

Bottom Bracket is maybe a year old, previous .

An update on this and as I had feared but dared not say, lbs thinks the threads have basically come unbonded from the frame.

My bike is dead, long live my bike. I just bought a campag groupset for it an all. This is incredibly poor timing.

ARX · 20-05-2021 5:25pm

Weepsie wrote: »

An update on this and as I had feared but dared not say, lbs thinks the threads have basically come unbonded from the frame.

My bike is dead, long live my bike. I just bought a campag groupset for it an all. This is incredibly poor timing.

fat bloke might have a spare frame lying around that he's not using ...

hesker · 20-05-2021 5:37pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

^ Removed B-Screw, screwed it back in but only a few turns. Distance now better but still slightly too big, approx 1cm maybe a little more.

Yeah was thinking you meant chain too long rather than too short.

Put the chain on big ring on front and second biggest on back and post a photo. The der should be fairly stretched out in that combo.

Do same for small small to see how wrapped the der is

Weepsie · 20-05-2021 5:44pm

ARX wrote: »

fat bloke might have a spare frame lying around that he's not using ...

I just sold him another bike and all! Me and Fat Bloke are being punished.

This was the only bike I looked after reasonably well too. New Groupset for it, new wheels.

only offer a 2 year warranty. I have it bang on 5 years and 2 weeks today.

tdf7187 · 20-05-2021 6:20pm

hesker wrote: »

Put the chain on big ring on front and second biggest on back and post a photo. The der should be fairly stretched out in that combo.

hesker wrote: »

Do same for small small to see how wrapped the der is

Type 17 · 20-05-2021 6:50pm

Chain is a few links too long - the official Shimano check is put the chain in the highest gear (biggest ring, smallest sprocket,) and the small silver bolts for the jockey wheels should be vertical, one above the other, or close to it.

tdf7187 · 20-05-2021 6:58pm

Type 17 wrote: »

Chain is a few links too long - the official Shimano check is put the chain in the highest gear (biggest ring, smallest sprocket,) and the small silver bolts for the jockey wheels should be vertical, one above the other, or close to it.

Ah ok thanks. Edit: do you not mean lowest gear?

Wishbone Ash · 20-05-2021 8:41pm

The right cleat on one of my shoes is losing tightness on longer rides. It's not becoming visibly loose but requires about quarter of a turn of the bolts to tighten it again. It's not a big deal when solo but very annoying to others on a group ride as it begins to squeak (especially when climbing or out of the saddle).

I'm reluctant to use Loctite or similar products in case I won't be able to remove them again when required. I've never had this problem before. I can temporarily stop the squeaking by moving my heel slightly to the right (but it naturally drifts back to proper position).

Any advice/tips? Thanks.

Brian? · 20-05-2021 8:45pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The right cleat on one of my shoes is losing tightness on longer rides. It's not becoming visibly loose but requires about quarter of a turn of the bolts to tighten it again. It's not a big deal when solo but very annoying to others on a group ride as it begins to squeak (especially when climbing or out of the saddle).

I'm reluctant to use Loctite or similar products in case I won't be able to remove them again when required. I've never had this problem before. I can temporarily stop the squeaking by moving my heel slightly to the right (but it naturally drifts back to proper position).

Any advice/tips? Thanks.

Use blue loctite and it'll be ok to remove. Don't use red

Speedplay cleat screws come pre coated in loctite, I'm surprised more don't

Wishbone Ash · 20-05-2021 8:58pm

Brian? wrote: »

Use blue loctite and it'll be ok to remove. Don't use red...

Great stuff thanks. I didn't know there are different types.

Brian? · 20-05-2021 9:22pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Great stuff thanks. I didn't know there are different types.

Yeah, the blue stuff isn't hard to break at all. I've used it loads over the years in industrial settings.

MangleBadger · 20-05-2021 9:34pm

So my new wheels finally arrived. Spent the afternoon fighting with tyres and tubes. Forgot to put some rim tape on so punctured a tube. Also put the tyres on the wrong direction. Finally they’re ready to be mounted.
Open my new rotors and pads to find out the rotors did not come with lock rings. And my old wheels are 6 bolt.
Hopefully I can pick some lock rings up locally tomorrow.

hesker · 20-05-2021 10:25pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. Edit: do you not mean lowest gear?

I would guess Type 17 means big front small back. Certainly do that test if that is the official one but I'll be honest from the photos you posted it doesn't look too long to me.

You could simulate what removing a few links would do by just putting a suitably sized object in between the big chainring and the chain. Or pull out the chain and fold over a couple of links.

I'd check also if your derailleur is pivoting freely where it is attached at the derailleur hanger.

07Lapierre · 20-05-2021 11:28pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

Can anyone help me with this, the gap between my rear derailleur and cassette seems far too large. Everywhere I look online says the gap should be between 5 and 9 mm depending on the bike, it is much larger than that on mine. I tried adjusting the gap adjuster ("B Screw") to little effect. Gear change functions ok, could be a little smoother:

How old is the chain and derailleur? They look well used/old in the photo? Is the derailleur working? Can you select all the gears?

If you put the bike in a work stand, remove the chain from the chainset and see if the derailleur moves freely? Maybe the main spring is clogged with dirt and is not allowing the derailleur to move up towards the cassette?

tdf7187 · 20-05-2021 11:52pm

hesker wrote: »

I would guess tdf7187 means big front small back. Certainly do that test if that is the official one but I'll be honest from the photos you posted it doesn't look too long to me.

You could simulate what removing a few links would do by just putting a suitably sized object in between the big chainring and the chain. Or pull out the chain and fold over a couple of links.

I'd check also if your derailleur is pivoting freely where it is attached at the derailleur hanger.

Too late I'm afraid I've already removed a link. It's working fine, seems smoother.

tdf7187 · 20-05-2021 11:54pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

How old is the chain and derailleur? They look well used/old in the photo? Is the derailleur working? Can you select all the gears?

If you put the bike in a work stand, remove the chain from the chainset and see if the derailleur moves freely? Maybe the main spring is clogged with dirt and is not allowing the derailleur to move up towards the cassette?

Chain and derailleur each under 6 months. Left out in the rain so may look older. Edit: They are actually older than I thought, 8 months, I looked at my receipts. Derailleur is working fine in the sense that I can select all gears but there is slippage on a small number of them (however, I haven't checked if any improvement since I did the adjustments referred to below).

I don't have a work stand unfortunately. The situation has improved since I unscrewed the B screw almost all the way out and removed some links from the chain.

Brian? · 21-05-2021 6:45am

tdf7187 wrote: »

Chain and derailleur each under 6 months. Left out in the rain so may look older. Edit: They are actually older than I thought, 8 months, I looked at my receipts. Derailleur is working fine in the sense that I can select all gears but there is slippage on a small number of them (however, I haven't checked if any improvement since I did the adjustments referred to below).

I don't have a work stand unfortunately. The situation has improved since I unscrewed the B screw almost all the way out and removed some links from the chain.

Give your drive chain a good clean or there are more problems coming.

Type 17 · 21-05-2021 7:35am

tdf7187 wrote: »

Ah ok thanks. Edit: do you not mean lowest gear?

The lowest gear is smallest ring / biggest sprocket and the highest gear is biggest ring / smallest sprocket.

It's the ratio between input and output that gives us the term 'gear ratios'.

Vehicle gears are described as high or low because a low gear has a low output (wheel-speed) for a given input (pedal or engine-speed), and a high gear has a relatively high output for a given input.

the 'there's no such thing as a stupid question' bike maintenance thread

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