Jordan Peterson interview on C4

silverharp · 23-01-2018 7:28pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why is pseudoscience being taught in University?

People spend 4 years of their lives studying these things. It's sad really.

Big Mac and fries......

conorhal · 23-01-2018 8:08pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

There appears to be a market for it, so while someone is willing to pay for it then the universities will sell it, what happens to their ex-students is not their concern. The expansion of courses in Critical theory (Cultural Marxism) and various resentment studies courses is tied to the expansion of the university system through cheap debt over the past few decades. These course do not require much intellectual effort so they are and easy way to expand the number of students in the university system and the administration that goes with that. The problem is these students don't stay in university forever, they have to get a job top pay back their student loans, this material does not qualify them for any profession in particular.

God how I wish this was actually true.
Some of them do stay in universities for life filling out the ever expanding social 'sciences' course offerings on feminist basket weaving or whatever, but something odd has been happening over the last decade.
New jobs keep cropping up in our HR departments for 'diversity officers' to provide these self-same university courses to employees on 'micro-aggressions' that we've seen on campuses (not kidding, we have had this where I work) or how to write 'diversity mission statement' for your department.
Charities that used to campaign for prisoners of dictatorial regimes that dared to speak freely are now (like Am-nasty International) campaigning against such people headed by folks that pay themselves more than MNC CEO's.
Quango's, government bodies that have more insider influence then citizens are infested with the graduates of such courses and of course the education and media sectors are almost completely SJW these days.

The sad truth is that the Marxists 'long march through the institutions' that began in the 70's is almost complete:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_march_through_the_institutions

Herbert Marcuse corresponded with Dutschke in 1971 to agree with this strategy, "Let me tell you this: that I regard your notion of the 'long march through the institutions' as the only effective way..."[4] In his 1972 book, Counterrevolution and Revolt, Marcuse wrote

To extend the base of the student movement, Rudi Dutschke has proposed the strategy of the long march through the institutions: working against the established institutions while working within them,

pemay · 23-01-2018 8:17pm

Had a quick look at the guy shouting in the middle of the protest. Its like a different planet, full of mongoes. Maybe it is Mongo, Ming and everything.

I don't remember anything even remotely close to this level of division when I was studying in colleges, its like as if some naughty god decided to organically lay the foundations for another world war, this is what it would look like.

Bizarre manifestations of human beings being absorbed into cult-like groups that reinforce the absurdity of said individual, eventually eliminating the need for an individual self. A rabbit-hole of ignorance. These cults have the sole purpose of destroying everything standing in the way of their domination of society, even if that be society itself.

That's all fine and good, except there must be like twenty or thirty individual groups frothing at the mouth to destroy each other. All wrapped in fuzzy, lovey-dovey language like "equality", "allies", "progress" etc, this is why they attract the more simple-minded and naive of people, because it "sounds nice" and its super easy too.

A very appealing proposition. The status quo of right now means that its a no-no to voice logical concern in public, its advantageous to just shut your mouth. Its even easier to attain status points in public by agreeing with the status quo, no matter how mad it is.

Its all so easy and attractive! These cults come pre-armed with what I call conversation-enders, buzz words like misogynist, bigot, racist, and so forth. You dont need to engage your brain or challenge anything, you just drop a conversation-ender and that's it, job done. Easy. You can be a deliverer of social justice with no effort required. Its the get-rich-quick scam applied to society instead of money. Easy, easy, easy, easy. Have I mentioned how easy it is?

Your man Peterson is like a breath of fresh air. But at the same time it just highlights how absolutely stinking the atmosphere has become in the first place.

storker · 23-01-2018 8:38pm

Shenshen wrote: »

I saw the interview at the time it was aired and felt rather disappointed in Newman - that certainly wasn't anywhere near her usual standards.

However, his replies showed clearly that he had inspected the subject and settled on the first answer that pleased him and complied with his pre-conceived ideas of the world.
Yes, there certainly is a difference between men and women in the jobs they choose, and in their levels of "agreeableness". Someone seriously interested in the subject would ask "Why? Where does that come from?", whereas he's perfectly happy to just stop there.

His opinions are what they are because he is seriously interested in his subject and he has asked "Why? Where does that come from?". His positions, and I don't agree with all of them, are the result of the answers he has found rather than being preconceived ideas. What you're describing appears much more to be the thought processes of those who would silence him, or dismiss him as Alt-Right because they're either too lazy to debate or because they know that they can't effectively argue their positions.

Pa ElGrande · 23-01-2018 8:59pm

conorhal wrote: »

God how I wish this was actually true.

I agree with you. They have been making their way into industry over the last decade in particular through the HR departments which already tend to be female dominated and they are bringing their politically correct ideology with them and imposing it through through company policy under the term diversity. If you have not already you will find yourself over the next few years undergoing implicit association tests, which are derived from the Jungian philosophy, you may already be familiar with the myers briggs personality types which is another derivative of Jung. Unfortunately for both sexes this wave of feminists are also pushing to expand into the science technology engineering & mathematics (STEM) departments under the guise of pushing more girls into these subjects. Jordan Peterson in the channel4 interview highlighted the example of Scandinavia that when offered a free choice men and women tended to pick roles that suited their common genders traits best. By imposing STEM on girls they must fill quotas and force more women into these subjects, inevitably pushing more people who are unsuited to these disciplines will drop out and likely transfer to the easier gender studies courses in order to get a degree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hXlGFlbzoE

silverharp · 23-01-2018 9:14pm

^^^

couldnt make it to the end of that video

cantdecide · 23-01-2018 9:23pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hXlGFlbzoE

Sends a shiver down my spine that stuff. Aside from the buzzword soup of 'intersectional' 'diversity', 'social justice' and 'gender studies' curriculum and all the usual twaddle, she speaks about "real world relevance" of the subject matter and the "transformation" of the students... but I read it all as 'indoctrination'. Of course they all go on to have successful careers in "academia" and "publishing" where they can attempt to perpetuate the doctrine of moral superiority.

It's finally here...

Mickeywish · 23-01-2018 9:28pm

There is a dangerous truth about Humanity which Cathy falls into. There exists a significant portion of society who are unable to objectively look at facts, their opinion is based on two factors. The number of people they see who have a particular belief, and the social status of the people who have a particular belief.

If Cathy lived in 1930's Germany I think she would be one of the millions who just "knew" that Jews where inferior. The power of group think is so very dangerous as we have witnessed in the last century.

conorhal · 23-01-2018 9:32pm

cantdecide wrote: »

Sends a shiver down my spine that stuff. Aside from the buzzword soup of 'intersectional' 'diversity', 'social justice' and 'gender studies' curriculum and all the usual twaddle, she speaks about "real world relevance" of the subject matter and the "transformation" of the students... but I read it all as 'indoctrination'. Of course they all go on to have successful careers in "academia" and "publishing" where they can attempt to perpetuate the doctrine of moral superiority.

It's finally here...

And anybody that's followed the Evergreen College controversy knows that this is where that ends.....

cantdecide · 23-01-2018 9:47pm

conorhal wrote: »

And anybody that's followed the Evergreen College controversy knows that this is where that ends.....

I've been following it. Here is the subject of their witch-hunt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmGgna7nlcI

"You can't pin down what is meant by 'equity' but by questioning how to define it, you fall afoul of a booby-trap that has you confronted as a white supremacist".

s7ryf3925pivug · 23-01-2018 10:51pm

Leftist extremists don't justify the ideologies of rightist extremists. Leftist extremists are also fringe groups. It's disingenuous to portray them as representative of the mainstream. They are the counterparts of the alt right.

Pa ElGrande · 23-01-2018 10:54pm

Thought-Criminal Jordan Peterson Versus Cathy Newman & The Baader-Meinhof Gang

A dystopian future indeed if this is allowed to continue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWu0tsiZM

20Cent · 23-01-2018 11:16pm

Mickeywish wrote: »

If Cathy lived in 1930's Germany I think she would be one of the millions who just "knew" that Jews where inferior. The power of group think is so very dangerous as we have witnessed in the last century.

Aaaaannnd we have a Godwin.

Max Prophet · 23-01-2018 11:19pm

20Cent wrote: »

Aaaaannnd we have a Godwin.

There was one earlier in case you missed it.....

20Cent wrote: »

Its a little known fact but Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot all began their careers campaigning for preferred pronouns.

Pa ElGrande · 23-01-2018 11:22pm

Royce Stocky Stage wrote: »

Leftist extremists don't justify the ideologies of rightist extremists. Leftist extremists are also fringe groups. It's disingenuous to portray them as representative of the mainstream. They are the counterparts of the alt right.

The Alt right is just a nebulous claim made by a failed politician. It is not representative of any political ideology and is just used by political hacks to frame any number of disaffected voters (i.e. the basket of deplorables) that could not be categorised into a group that fit the identity politics within the various Democrat party caucus groups.

Leftist extremists on the other hand are very real and were being given a free hand to operate earlier in 2017 in Democrat controlled cities before the connections became obvious and they were ordered back.

johnp001 · 23-01-2018 11:42pm

Condemning anything just on the basis of it being defined as "extremism" is a slippery slope. The Overton window can easily be moved making yesterday's centrist today's extremist.
It's usually easy enough to find a valid reason to criticise ideologies on their merits rather than having to rely on a judgement based on their current level of acceptance by the general population. Using extremism as a reason to condemn something is just lazy.

And to quote Chomsky:
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum...."

And he would know all about this as a major proponent of this tactic himself [URL='https://www.corbettreport.com/meet-noam-chomsky-academic-gatekeeper-video/]
Meet Noam Chomsky, Academic Gatekeeper[/URL]

s7ryf3925pivug · 24-01-2018 12:19am

Hillary didn't coin 'alt right'. The term is clear enough I think. Stick with wing nuts if you prefer though.

Antifa are a disaster. There is no evidence of links with the democrats in that link, just a claim. I am aware that some of these groups are fake puppets of the far right. Others are sponsored by Russia. Others are just violent idiots.

The thing about extremism doesn't relate to my point. People on this thread are linking absurd and extreme left entities and claiming this is representative of mainstream thought or show the direction things are going. It's not. Hippies and communists have been around a long time. Wing nuts have too. Pointing out hippies are full of rubbish doesn't mean it's okay to be a wing nut. Saying mainstream institutions are all communists and hippies is just a lie. It seems to me that these new right movements are based on a dishonest view of what the mainstream is.

silverharp · 24-01-2018 12:28am

Royce Stocky Stage wrote: »

Hillary didn't coin 'alt right'. The term is clear enough I think. Stick with wing nuts if you prefer though.

Antifa are a disaster. There is no evidence of links with the democrats in that link, just a claim. I am aware that some of these groups are fake puppets of the far right. Others are sponsored by Russia. Others are just violent idiots.

The thing about extremism doesn't relate to my point. People on this thread are linking absurd and extreme left entities and claiming this is representative of mainstream thought or show the direction things are going. It's not. Hippies and communists have been around a long time. Wing nuts have too. Pointing out hippies are full of rubbish doesn't mean it's okay to be a wing nut. Saying mainstream institutions are all communists and hippies is just a lie. It seems to me that these new right movements are based on a dishonest view of what the mainstream is.

it depends, if you see someone with a flag with a hammer and sickle on it, thats pretty extreme yet it acceptable to have them at normal public events.

16195046_10154193442256500_7668801840501064262_n_by_the_necromancer-dawb1fv.jpg

16195046_10154193442256500_7668801840501064262_n_by_the_necromancer-dawb1fv.jpg

Pa ElGrande · 24-01-2018 12:48am

Royce Stocky Stage wrote: »

It seems to me that these new right movements are based on a dishonest view of what the mainstream is.

It is just the return of the classical liberals, the progressives who commandeered the Liberal label throughout the 20th century are disintegrating and reverting back to their socialist origins.

FA Hayek wrote:

The picture generally given of the relative position of the three parties does more to obscure than to elucidate their true relations. They are usually represented as different positions on a line, with the socialists on the left, the conservatives on the right, and the liberals somewhere in the middle. Nothing could be more misleading. If we want a diagram, it would be more appropriate to arrange them in a triangle with the conservatives occupying one corner, with the socialists pulling toward the second and the liberals toward the third. But, as the socialists have for a long time been able to pull harder, the conservatives have tended to follow the socialist rather than the liberal direction and have adopted at appropriate intervals of time those ideas made respectable by radical propaganda. It has been regularly the conservatives who have compromised with socialism and stolen its thunder. Advocates of the Middle Way with no goal of their own, conservatives have been guided by the belief that the truth must lie somewhere between the extremes—with the result that they have shifted their position every time a more extreme movement appeared on either wing.

source

s7ryf3925pivug · 24-01-2018 12:55am

silverharp wrote: »

it depends, if you see someone with a flag with a hammer and sickle on it, thats pretty extreme yet it acceptable to have them at normal public events.

Wtf.

Bizarre and outrageous.

They're random ****tards though. Shockingly ignorant they may be. That this was presumably tolerated doesn't mean it was thought to be okay.

markodaly · 24-01-2018 1:05am

silverharp wrote: »

^^^

couldnt make it to the end of that video

I know right.

Your job prospects is literally only available in further academia or working for feminists advocacy groups. But you have to pay them almost €7000 euro first to be 'woke'. What a scam.

She loves the diversity of students, but I somehow doubt she would like diversity of thought or if someone tried to challenge some of her home truths.

markodaly · 24-01-2018 1:06am

Brian? wrote: »

That’s the most detailed ad hominem attacks I’ve ever seen.

I do not think you know what Ad hominem means.

SeanW · 24-01-2018 1:10am

20Cent wrote: »

Jaysus you'd think he saved the world from alien invasion.

Post-modernism is much more insidious.

It's a college.

No.

He's protesting/arguing against college rules and regulations.

No. His argument is against laws that force a particular language to be used. I.E. laws that make it a crime not to affirm someone's ... claim to be something other than what they are. What he heard from the college was legal advice stemming from Ontario and (if C16 passes) Canadian legislation.

If his fanboys experienced one fraction of the discrimination, fear and silencing that minorities face every day they would have something to cry about. So ironic they call the other side snowflakes.

He and his so called "fanboys" are lied about, demonised and intimidated as matter of routine. If you think being a white conservative is so easy, try to organise a college speaking tour for Ben Shapiro or Nigel Farage, Milo Y, Laura Southern etc. Then tell me about "discrimination, fear and silencing".

"Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low." Wallace Sayre.

Really? The ability to brainwash the next generation is "stakes so low?" The reason people who've been to college tend to lean left of those who have not is because colleges in the West are stacked with vermin like these: http://www.professorwatchlist.org/

Little should one wonder how much power the Post-Modernist Left now has in our imperiled society, it would be like stacking the colleges with Nazis and then wondering why all the students graduated sporting narrow mustaches and jabbering about how great Naziism is. And the stakes really are high - people come out of these indoctrination centres and into positions where they can do real damage, like politics and media.

Pa ElGrande · 24-01-2018 1:13am

Royce Stocky Stage wrote: »

Wtf.

Bizarre and outrageous.

They're random ****tards though. Shockingly ignorant they may be. That this was presumably tolerated doesn't mean it was thought to be okay.

The sign in the back reads "seize him by the means of production". This is standard operating procedure for socialists to attach themselves to others protest marches. Sinn Fein and other socialist political parties often employ this tactic in this country. Most people chose to ignore the oppression and destruction imposed by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics with the excuse that was not real socialism.

Noel82 · 24-01-2018 1:39am

20Cent wrote: »

Aaaaannnd we have a Godwin.

Herb Powell · 24-01-2018 1:51am

SeanW wrote: »

Really? The ability to brainwash the next generation is "stakes so low?" The reason people who've been to college tend to lean left of those who have not is because colleges in the West are stacked with vermin like these: http://www.professorwatchlist.org/

Little should one wonder how much power the Post-Modernist Left now has in our imperiled society, it would be like stacking the colleges with Nazis and then wondering why all the students graduated sporting narrow mustaches and jabbering about how great Naziism is. And the stakes really are high - people come out of these indoctrination centres and into positions where they can do real damage, like politics and media.

Oooooooooh dear

pemay · 24-01-2018 2:51am

Herb Powell wrote: »

Oooooooooh dear

Herb Powell?

Herb f**king Powell?!

Man, how long has it been?! I had to think fast there, knew it couldn't be anyone else, good old Herb, good ol' Herb "Black Tuesday" Powell!

Remember that time back in college, do you? How could you forget, says you! You smeared pig fat all over your face and swore "that's the last time you'll see me peeping through a hedge crooked, let me tell ya!"

Ah jaysus, good times, wha'? And sure where would you leave the time you went leppin' across the street like a mad yoke to the Reichstag, sure they couldn't tell you not to put your flute away, they couldn't!

Ye mad yoke, Herb

Mickeyswish · 24-01-2018 7:57am

Cathy displays traits of group think, beliefs are based on the number of people who hold those beliefs and the social status of those who hold those beliefs. It is a vulnerability in human psychology, thankfully there are people such as Jordan Peterson who can base their beliefs on facts and sound logic.

The dangers of group think can be seen looking back through history at the likes of National Socialism in Germany for example. Someone controlled by group think will also blurt out "Godwins Law" in a Pavlovian manner if they here anything to related to German National Socialism. They heard enough people say it so they think it is cool to say it.

Group think is dangerous in other ways, for example the 2004 tsunami, many people died because they looked to other people's reactions to assess the danger rather than using the facts and evidence to assess the danger. It's like when the fire alarm.sounds in an office, people look to others to see what they should do rather than exit the building.

Intothesea · 24-01-2018 8:25am

In this interview it seems as if Cathy Newman was taking on the apparent persona and not just the illogical angles of online neo-feminists. The very specific gauche combative approach and word-for-word script the likes of which are replicated throughout cyberspace between ostensibly normal people and 3rd-wavers certainly provokes the same sort of disbelief, anyway.

Maybe she thought literally speaking up for the neo-feminist sisterhood would be politically expedient, and especially if Peterson came off as anything less than a gentleman. Fair play to JP for side-stepping this balderdash. Very instructive

As well, is Peterson (or anyone else making a heart-felt effort to address disaffected young people in the west) relating the rise of post-modern/post-Marxist philosophical inculcation in western universities to the solidification of neo-liberal economic and social approaches in these societies, as a reactionary move? If this holds, the overall picture and reasons for it would become quite a bit clearer. I notice that Peterson points to the university issues driving the mass neo-feminist wave, but he doesn't go so far as to relate it to the zero-sum value that modern economic/social approaches deliver very specifically to the western man. Is anyone addressing this part of the map online?

20Cent · 24-01-2018 9:11am

SeanW wrote: »

No. His argument is against laws that force a particular language to be used. I.E. laws that make it a crime not to affirm someone's ... claim to be something other than what they are. What he heard from the college was legal advice stemming from Ontario and (if C16 passes) Canadian legislation.

The monsters, you can't even call black people the N word these days PC gone mad.

SeanW wrote: »

He and his so called "fanboys" are lied about, demonised and intimidated as matter of routine. If you think being a white conservative is so easy, try to organise a college speaking tour for Ben Shapiro or Nigel Farage, Milo Y, Laura Southern etc. Then tell me about "discrimination, fear and silencing".

The poor things, you can't go into a college and put up a photo of a student calling her a pervert or advocating for sex with children these days without someone getting mad!

SeanW wrote: »

Really? The ability to brainwash the next generation is "stakes so low?" The reason people who've been to college tend to lean left of those who have not is because colleges in the West are stacked with vermin like these: http://www.professorwatchlist.org/

Little should one wonder how much power the Post-Modernist Left now has in our imperiled society, it would be like stacking the colleges with Nazis and then wondering why all the students graduated sporting narrow mustaches and jabbering about how great Naziism is. And the stakes really are high - people come out of these indoctrination centres and into positions where they can do real damage, like politics and media.

Ze students making lists of vermin teachers doesn't sound fascist at all does it.

Jordan Peterson interview on C4

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