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Changes in the GAA - super thread

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    #1172
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    You asked when did Dublin object to others getting more resources?

    They have to admit that they get far more resources than everyone else first. And then admit those resources should be redistributed.

    For the last couple of weeks we've have a number of people who have/had an involvement in Dublin football coming out to deny extra funding had anything to do with Dublin's success, it was all down to hard work, Jim Gavin, blah blah blah. Denial from the top to the bottom. So yes the answer is there is no willingness in Dublin to level the playing field, especially when they play dumb and pretend funding distribution doesn't matter.

    And the golden generation myth has also been put to bed. There's been a significant turnover of players since 2011 and there continues to be. So we know its not a golden generation of players and that its a vastly well funded system producing the players.

    One other thing made me laugh this week, Dean Rock saying he finds the Leinster championship competitive. You'd wonder what he's smoking :)

    you were asked when did Dublin ever object to anyone else getting more funding, you have failed to answer that question


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    #1173
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    kilns wrote: »
    you were asked when did Dublin ever object to anyone else getting more funding, you have failed to answer that question

    It was a pointless question. Its like asking when did Manchester City object to another club getting a new investor.

    You failed to answer why Dublin received more funds than they deserve from the GAA. All I got was something about participation and Dublin is a special case and other sports don't really exist outside Dublin and the GAA is the only game in town in most parts of Ireland which was shown to be a lie.


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    #1174
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    It was a pointless question.

    Its like asking when did Manchester City object to another club getting a new investor. Its completely meaningless.

    Its not a pointless question because you made a statement based on nothing at all and have failed to back it up so you are avoiding to answer because you know the answer, it would be very transparent if Dublin objected to funding for more counties within the GAA and using a premier league example to back up your point is laughable, they are chalk and cheese


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    #1175
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Dublin has about 1.6 million people? Right, so we’d have to put Ulster as a team, Connaught as a team, rest of Leinster as a team and Munster as a team. Now we have too few teams.

    It’s the money and, as important, the home advantage that sets Dublin apart. The players are obviously working hard but then again so would a Cavan footballer who, if they were winning AIs, could command €6000 appearance fees.

    Take Dublin out of CP except for Leinster final and AI Final. Make Dublin travel to Castlebar, Killarney, Ballybofey for an AI semi. Make them do what everyone else has to do. Then all of this will stop.


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    #1176
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    doc_17 wrote: »
    It’s the money and, as important, the home advantage that sets Dublin apart.

    Dublin were the second most successful county by far in the history of the Sam Maguire before anyone heard of development funds.

    They done plenty of traveling in the 80s & 70s aswell.

    I wonder what magical formula they had back then....seeing as it was never about population..very strange.


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    #1177
    Jaden
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Jaden


    doc_17 wrote: »
    Dublin has about 1.6 million people?
    1.35 Million
    doc_17 wrote: »
    It’s the money and, as important, the home advantage that sets Dublin apart. The players are obviously working hard but then again so would a Cavan footballer who, if they were winning AIs, could command €6000 appearance fees.

    If you can name the Player and the appearance, I'll be impressed. If you can tell me how this contributes to all Ireland success, I'd be even more impressed.
    doc_17 wrote: »
    Take Dublin out of CP except for Leinster final and AI Final. Make Dublin travel to Castlebar, Killarney, Ballybofey for an AI semi. Make them do what everyone else has to do. Then all of this will stop.

    Totally good with this idea. But the Democratic processes of the GAA will probably decide otherwise.

    That said, I think the last All Ireland Semi to be played outside of Croker was in Cork in 1983...


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    #1178
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Dublin were the second most successful county by far in the history of the Sam Maguire before anyone heard of development funds.

    They done plenty of traveling in the 80s & 70s aswell.

    I wonder what magical formula they had back then....seeing as it was never about population..very strange.

    They won 2 AIs between 1983 and 2010.

    The won 6/7 AIS between 2011 and 2019, which also coincided with a huge (mostly GAA funded) investment in Dublin football.

    2 AIs in 27 years before the benefits of the funding showed, 6 or 7 in the relatively short period after.

    And before you say "golden generation" that myth has already been exploded.


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    #1179
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    They won 2 AIs between 1983 and 2010.

    The won 6/7 AIS between 2011 and 2019, which also coincided with a huge (mostly GAA funded) investment in Dublin football.

    2 AIs in 27 years before the benefits of the funding showed, 6 or 7 in the relatively short period after.

    And before you say "golden generation" that myth has already been exploded.

    They won 14 Leinsters between 1983 and 2010. Meath in their most golden era could only manage 9.....what could it be??...I wonder...it’s not population...we know that.


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    #1180
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    They won 2 AIs between 1983 and 2010.

    The won 6/7 AIS between 2011 and 2019, which also coincided with a huge (mostly GAA funded) investment in Dublin football.

    2 AIs in 27 years before the benefits of the funding showed, 6 or 7 in the relatively short period after.

    And before you say "golden generation" that myth has already been exploded.

    when you mentioned the "golden generation" myth has been exploded. I am sure you can agree, Cluxton, McCaffrey, McCarthy, Flynn, Connolly, Brogan, Cooper, Fenton and Mannion are amazing footballers and would find a place on any team in histroy. In order to destroy this Golden Generation myth can you name the younger players in the Dublin squad who are coming in a staking a claim to replace them? Considering probably the most influencal player to ever play (Cluxton) will soon finish up do we have another of his calibre to replace him?


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    #1181
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    kilns wrote: »
    when you mentioned the "golden generation" myth has been exploded. I am sure you can agree, Cluxton, McCaffrey, McCarthy, Flynn, Connolly, Brogan, Mannion, Cooper, Fenton and Mannion are amazing footballers and would find a place on any team in histroy. In order to destroy this Golden Generation myth can you name the younger players in the Dublin squad who are coming in a staking a claim to replace them? Considering probably the most influencal player to ever play (Cluxton) will soon finish up do we have another of his calibre to replace him?

    Mannion, Fenton and mccaffrey? Sure they’ll have 6 more years at a minimum.

    com ocallaghan, Brian Howard, Eoin Murchan and I hear Luke Swan is the new boy wonder. Two out of the four with all stars already.


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    #1182
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    kilns wrote: »
    when you mentioned the "golden generation" myth has been exploded. I am sure you can agree, Cluxton, McCaffrey, McCarthy, Flynn, Connolly, Brogan, Cooper, Fenton and Mannion are amazing footballers and would find a place on any team in histroy. In order to destroy this Golden Generation myth can you name the younger players in the Dublin squad who are coming in a staking a claim to replace them? Considering probably the most influencal player to ever play (Cluxton) will soon finish up do we have another of his calibre to replace him?

    THIS generation are the Golden generation, the 2011 and 2013 teams had great players but I dont think could be described as a generation.

    Of the 2011 team that beat Kerry
    • 15 from 19 played the previous year and lost to Cork
    • 9 from 19 played in the infamous Kerry game
    The 2013 team has similar numbers.

    It the Fenton, Mannion, Kilkenny, McCaffrey generation that have seen Dublin sprint ahead.


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    #1183
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    kilns wrote: »
    when you mentioned the "golden generation" myth has been exploded. I am sure you can agree, Cluxton, McCaffrey, McCarthy, Flynn, Connolly, Brogan, Cooper, Fenton and Mannion are amazing footballers and would find a place on any team in histroy. In order to destroy this Golden Generation myth can you name the younger players in the Dublin squad who are coming in a staking a claim to replace them? Considering probably the most influencal player to ever play (Cluxton) will soon finish up do we have another of his calibre to replace him?

    Flynn, Brogan and Connolly no longer play for the Dubs. Not even sure Brogan gets in the squad any more.
    They lost these 3 players and it made no difference. A sign its not a golden generation of a relatively small group of players. They are churning them out like nobody's business. Hardly surprising though when you have what many describe as financial doping.


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    #1184
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    THIS generation are the Golden generation, the 2011 and 2013 teams had great players but I dont think could be described as a generation.

    Of the 2011 team that beat Kerry
    • 15 from 19 played the previous year and lost to Cork
    • 9 from 19 played in the infamous Kerry game
    The 2013 team has similar numbers.

    It the Fenton, Mannion, Kilkenny, McCaffrey generation that have seen Dublin sprint ahead.

    And not Flynn, Brogan or Connolly? Yeh right.
    Flynn won 4 allstars in a row.
    Connolly is regularly touted as the greatest footballer of his generation.
    Brogan was one of the greatest forwards of the last 10 years.

    They left and its made no difference.

    Golden generation my eyeball. Its more of the usual bullsh*t.


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    #1185
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Mannion, Fenton and mccaffrey? Sure they’ll have 6 more years at a minimum.

    com ocallaghan, Brian Howard, Eoin Murchan and I hear Luke Swan is the new boy wonder. Two out of the four with all stars already.

    Yes they do, but I mentioned the top top guys, what about the guys like McMahon, Fitzsimon. McAuley, McMen etc there is no obvious players en masse coming through to replace these, why are Dublin not dominating at under age level, because the fact is yes they may have the numbers but not the bulk of exceptional players. 5 years time should be very interesting, we should expect Kerry to be the dominant force by then if there under age success is anything to go by as their own golden generation (i hate that phrase) will be maturing, every county gets these phases where a group that comes through together are exceptional, from Meath in the 80/90s to Tyrone in the 00s to Dublin now. Its cyclical. Dublin will always be there or thereabouts due to sheer force of numbers but by no means will be as dominant


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    #1186
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    Flynn, Brogan and Connolly no longer play for the Dubs. Not even sure Brogan gets in the squad any more.
    They lost these 3 players and it made no difference. A sign its not a golden generation of a relatively small group of players. They are churning them out like nobody's business. Hardly surprising though when you have what many describe as financial doping.

    still waiting for my answer by the way...................


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    #1187
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    kilns wrote: »
    Yes they do, but I mentioned the top top guys, what about the guys like McMahon, Fitzsimon. McAuley, McMen etc there is no obvious players en masse coming through to replace these, why are Dublin not dominating at under age level, because the fact is yes they may have the numbers but not the bulk of exceptional players. 5 years time should be very interesting, we should expect Kerry to be the dominant force by then if there under age success is anything to go by as their own golden generation (i hate that phrase) will be maturing, every county gets these phases where a group that comes through together are exceptional, from Meath in the 80/90s to Tyrone in the 00s to Dublin now. Its cyclical. Dublin will always be there or thereabouts due to sheer force of numbers but by no means will be as dominant

    We didn’t know who McMahon or Mcauley or McCarthy or even Bernard Brogan were when they were 18 or 19.

    They have a team with a average age of around 27. Loads of young lads being introduced last year. Please stop with the nonsense about the well is running dry.


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    #1188
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    And not Flynn, Brogan or Connolly? Yeh right.
    Flynn won 4 allstars in a row.
    Connolly is regularly touted as the greatest footballer of his generation.
    Brogan was one of the greatest forwards of the last 10 years.

    They left and its made no difference.

    Golden generation my eyeball. Its more of the usual bullsh*t.

    Fantastic footballers no doubt, all three played in the 17 point defeat to Kerry, two of them played in the previous years hammering by Tyrone (Flynn was out)


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    #1189
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    We didn’t know who McMahon or Mcauley or McCarthy or even Bernard Brogan were when they were 18 or 19.

    They have a team with a average age of around 27. Loads of young lads being introduced last year. Please stop with the nonsense about the well is running dry.

    Maybe you didnt but most people clued into Dublin GAA would have

    I am not saying the well is running dry but I am saying the standard of player is currently not coming through that is currently there. Cluxton is a huge player for Dublin his value cant be underestimated, definitely the greatest goalkeeper ever and arguably the most influential player ever, you dont think Dublins level might drop when he leaves? The big difference between this set of Dublin players and previous ones too is management and attitude.

    Yes as I said the they will always be there or thereabouts but not as dominant. Lets see what Kerry are like in 5 years time and revisit this


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    #1190
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    kilns wrote: »
    Maybe you didnt but most people clued into Dublin GAA would have

    I am not saying the well is running dry but I am saying the standard of player is currently not coming through that is currently there. Cluxton is a huge player for Dublin his value cant be underestimated, definitely the greatest goalkeeper ever and arguably the most influential player ever, you dont think Dublins level might drop when he leaves? The big difference between this set of Dublin players and previous ones too is management and attitude.

    Yes as I said the they will always be there or thereabouts but not as dominant. Lets see what Kerry are like in 5 years time and revisit this

    Well I was clued in enough to know that Luke Swan is the coming star.

    Cluxton leaving will be a problem. When he goes. Who knows when that’ll be. If I was him I wouldn’t be going anywhere.


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    #1191
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    The likes of John small were not marked for brilliance from the age of 18 or 19. They just developed in their 20s.

    I think your point is nonsense to be honest.


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    #1192
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    kilns wrote: »
    Yes they do, but I mentioned the top top guys, what about the guys like McMahon, Fitzsimon. McAuley, McMen etc there is no obvious players en masse coming through to replace these, why are Dublin not dominating at under age level, because the fact is yes they may have the numbers but not the bulk of exceptional players. 5 years time should be very interesting, we should expect Kerry to be the dominant force by then if there under age success is anything to go by as their own golden generation (i hate that phrase) will be maturing, every county gets these phases where a group that comes through together are exceptional, from Meath in the 80/90s to Tyrone in the 00s to Dublin now. Its cyclical. Dublin will always be there or thereabouts due to sheer force of numbers but by no means will be as dominant

    Howard has already replaced McAuley. Howard will be there another 10 years.
    McMenamen was never really a regular starter and his impact has been less and less in recent years. Still a good player to have but his impact in the later stages is not what it was. A replacement is probably waiting in the wings. Cooper is a bigger loss than McMahon would be so lets see how that plays out. I'm sure Dublin have 3 or 4 good players for every position and can slot them in easily enough.

    Midfield has been replaced with two young players, the forwards have been mostly replaced and a number of the backs have been replaced.

    There's question marks over who replaces McMahon, Cooper, O'Sullivan and Cluxton at the back, but they have a couple years left in them yet and there is plenty of talent at u20/u21 level who should be able to come through.


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    #1193
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    The likes of John small were not marked for brilliance from the age of 18 or 19. They just developed in their 20s.

    I think your point is nonsense to be honest.

    John Small while good is a solid player. He is not the kind of player who are going to make Dublin be a huge dominant force but he will slot into the team nicely. Would he be a stand out player with the other top teams Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry, Roscommon?


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    #1194
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    Howard has already replaced McAuley. Howard will be there another 10 years.
    McMenamen was never really a regular starter and his impact has been less and less in recent years. Still a good player to have but his impact in the later stages is not what it was. A replacement is probably waiting in the wings. Cooper is a bigger loss than McMahon would be so lets see how that plays out. I'm sure Dublin have 3 or 4 good players for every position and can slot them in easily enough.

    Midfield has been replaced with two young players, the forwards have been mostly replaced and a number of the backs have been replaced.

    There's question marks over who replaces McMahon, Cooper, O'Sullivan and Cluxton at the back, but they have a couple years left in them yet and there is plenty of talent at u20/u21 level who should be able to come through.

    McAuley is still the regular starter at midfield, Howard would have replaced Flynn more

    You say plenty of talent coming through but are they stand out talent, good players yes but players that would stand out nobody knows, even Luke Swan is so young nobody knows what way his career will go. Look at Mayo, seemed to have good underage talent but have underwhelmed at senior level

    The point is again its cyclical and Dublin will not always be out front as much as they currently are


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    #1195
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    kilns wrote: »
    John Small while good is a solid player, its guys like him which are coming through now currently. He is not the kind of player who are going to make Dublin be a huge dominant force but he will slot into the team nicely. Would he be a stand out player with the other top teams Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry, Roscommon?
    You asked for the replacements incoming. I gave you 3 and a wonder kid. You’re still arguing.

    I pointed out we aren’t going to know all the players at 18 or 19 who will be world beaters for Dublin. I pointed out 4 time all Ireland winning John small who wasn’t anything huge underage. You’re still arguing.

    You can argue with yourself now.


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    #1196
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    kilns wrote: »
    Luke Swan is so young nobody knows what way his career will go.

    Kilkenny, Costello and o Callaghan are the other stand out wonderkids that were talked about from the age of 18.

    Worked out pretty well for them.


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    #1197
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    You asked for the replacements incoming. I gave you 3 and a wonder kid. You’re still arguing.

    I pointed out we aren’t going to know all the players at 18 or 19 who will be world beaters for Dublin. I pointed out 4 time all Ireland winning John small who wasn’t anything huge underage. You’re still arguing.

    You can argue with yourself now.

    Not arguing just stating that its cyclical and the huge group of talent that Dublin have at their disposal will not always last


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    #1198
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Kilkenny, Costello and o Callaghan are the other stand out wonderkids that were talked about from the age of 18.

    Worked out pretty well for them.

    For every OCallaghan you have a Beano McDonald


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    #1199
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Have a good weekend lads I am off

    and just remember, the funding means nothing but Dublin will still win 10 in a row :D


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    #1200
    Jaden
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Jaden


    kilns wrote: »
    Have a good weekend lads I am off

    and just remember, the funding means nothing but Dublin will still win 10 in a row :D

    Looking forward to it. Have a good weekend.


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    #1201
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    kilns wrote: »
    Have a good weekend lads I am off

    and just remember, the funding means nothing but Dublin will still win 10 in a row :D

    The funding means everything :)

    Have a good weekend.


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