Changes in the GAA - super thread

kilns

bruschi wrote: »

with regards to your earlier point on the nursery, yes, it is great to see 20% increase, but I'd like to see how that stacks up country wide. In our club for example, with no investment, it has similar increases, mainly because there was never nurseries before and for most places it is a relatively new set up.

further to your point above about Mayo spending their games development on their senior team, you do know that it is virtually impossible for this to happen? All these accounts have to be verified to the provincial council and wages are included in these figures which are paid by their employer which is the provincial council. Mayo do not have the ability to redistribute these funds and all expenditure on the under age teams which uses the development money has to be accounted for.

This is an argument I have seen before which has virtually no understanding of how provincial investment in games development is spent or that actual workings of how they operate.

I know and I agree the figures need to be there, but I know from my club a nursery has been there for 30 years but only recently the numbers are increasing dramatically, I do not think rural Ireland would have the capacity to increase 20% year on year like urban clubs would but it has having a positive effect and then when the kids get coaching in the schools or at the club it is from professionals who have to earn the right to call themselves coaches and not volunteers

I asked was it being diverted to the senior team, I dont think it is as I know Mayo are probably the best fundraisers out there apart from Kerry but it was in direct responses to some poster who claimed the same funds which are distributed to Dublin go into the senior team, I asked what is Mayos juvenile coaching template and plan

I think a national plan needs to be implemented and adjusted for rural and urban areas.

RoyalCelt

kilns wrote: »

I know and I agree the figures need to be there, but I know from my club a nursery has been there for 30 years but only recently the numbers are increasing dramatically, I do not think rural Ireland would have the capacity to increase 20% year on year like urban clubs would but it has having a positive effect and then when the kids get coaching in the schools or at the club it is from professionals who have to earn the right to call themselves coaches and not volunteers

I asked was it being diverted to the senior team, I dont think it is as I know Mayo are probably the best fundraisers out there apart from Kerry but it was in direct responses to some poster who claimed the same funds which are distributed to Dublin go into the senior team, I asked what is Mayos juvenile coaching template and plan

I think a national plan needs to be implemented and adjusted for rural and urban areas.

Maybe not rural but big clubs in Meath, Kildare, Wicklow, Laois, Louth, Antrim, Cork and plenty of other counties with big towns and cities would.

In fact I'd argue there's potential to increase numbers by a bigger %. The reality is the GAA don't give a **** because they're not the capital.

kilns

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Maybe not rural but big clubs in Meath, Kildare, Wicklow, Laois, Louth, Antrim, Cork and plenty of other counties with big towns and cities would.

In fact I'd argue there's potential to increase numbers by a bigger %. The reality is the GAA don't give a **** because they're not the capital.

Yeah your right they dont give a sh1t they only care about Dublin to hell with the rest :rolleyes:

ToBeFrank123

kilns wrote: »

There is no point even getting into a debate with you anymore as I have answered all these points numerous times to you previously but I get it your from Mayo you hold a grudge against Dublin and no matter what logic or counter arguments are made you will still hate Dublin

I have not heard one word from you how to improve other counties and if Mayo for example are applying their games development funding into their kids or pumping it into their senior team.

Also to make a final point, you may not want to hear it but the GAA in Dublin is competing against so many other sports/hobbies etc for kids attention. In places like rural Mayo there is only one show in town alot of the time, so in that case, the coaching structure needs to be different and not about winning the hearts of kids but developing them. What is Mayo County Boards coaching vision/template for the next 10 years for example?

That's fine. You haven't really moved beyond the "axe to grind, jealous begrudger" personal attack line. Hardly surprising. Its generally the fallback position of last resort.

Your final point about the GAA in Dublin competing against other sport is just pure nonsense and also regularly trotted out by Dublin supporters. As if the GAA in Cork, Limerick, Sligo and Galway have no other sports to compete with. They are absolutely no different to Dublin in this regard.

As for there being only one sport in town in rural Mayo, more nonsense. Athletics, rugby, soccer, basketball, boxing and numerous other sports are very strong in all or many regions of Mayo. Rugby is strong in Westport and Ballina. Soccer is very strong all over the county, as are athletics. Boxing, basketball are also very strong. Sport in general is strong in Mayo.

Improve other counties? That's easy and I've said it numerous times. The GAA should be proactive in implementing a balanced club per GDO ratio in all counties. It can be 1 officer to cover 10 clubs. Alternatively it can be 1 officer per 1000 registered players. Either/Or.

The current model of spreading participation has failed miserably in Dublin. Its not about spreading participation as we know non nationals are not being represented at the elite levels and also player registration in general is low compared to other counties. Another clusterf*ck among many from the GAA. Throwing money into a "problem" and creating an even bigger problem.

I don't expect any Dublin supporter to debate this properly. All they are responding with now is the relatively immature "you're a jealous begrudger for questioning this".

ToBeFrank123

kilns wrote: »

Yeah your right they dont give a sh1t they only care about Dublin to hell with the rest :rolleyes:

Well that is exactly how its coming across and you aren't helping the perception by arguing that a special case needs to be made for Dublin because they are "competing against other sports".

You'd swear there was no other sports elsewhere in the country!

Try telling that to Sonia O'Sullivan, the Cork rowers, Rob Heffernan, Roy Keane, Ronan O'Gara, John Hayes, etc etc.

Slattsy

Has anyone from Mayo ever gone on to be an elite athlete or sportsperson?

Do Mayo have any (worthwhile) soccer clubs? Or Rugby? Can't think of any boxers that represented Ireland come to think of it..

Plenty of GAA lads that are half decent tbf. Wonder why that is. Hmmm

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

That's fine. You haven't really moved beyond the "axe to grind, jealous begrudger" personal attack line. Hardly surprising. Its generally the fallback position of last resort.

Your final point about the GAA in Dublin competing against other sport is just pure nonsense and also regularly trotted out by Dublin supporters. As if the GAA in Cork, Limerick, Sligo and Galway have no other sports to compete with. They are absolutely no different to Dublin in this regard.

As for there being only one sport in town in rural Mayo, more nonsense. Athletics, rugby, soccer, basketball, boxing and numerous other sports are very strong in all or many regions of Mayo. Rugby is strong in Westport and Ballina. Soccer is very strong all over the county, as are athletics. Boxing, basketball are also very strong. Sport in general is strong in Mayo.

Improve other counties? That's easy and I've said it numerous times. The GAA should be proactive in implementing a balanced club per GDO ratio in all counties. It can be 1 officer to cover 10 clubs. Alternatively it can be 1 officer per 1000 registered players. Either/Or.

The current model of spreading participation has failed miserably in Dublin. Its not about spreading participation as we know non nationals are not being represented at the elite levels and also player registration in general is low compared to other counties. Another clusterf*ck among many from the GAA. Throwing money into a "problem" and creating an even bigger problem.

I don't expect any Dublin supporter to debate this properly. All they are responding with now is the relatively immature "you're a jealous begrudger for questioning this".

The problem is you do have an axe to grind and are blind to it, being from Mayo i dont blame you because you have come close but have been beaten by a better team in the last few years and now that Mayo team are more or less gone, it could be a long time before they have a change to win an All Ireland again

But yes the GAA do have an urban problem which they have addressed in Dublin but need to look at it in the bigger towns and cities around Ireland, I would back 100% anything that improves this.

Can you quote me figures as to how participation has not increased and stating the fact that non nationals are not representing Dublin is not a reasonable argument, can you tell me there are no non national kids playing with clubs? Off the top of my head I can name 5 different nationalities playing with our boys under 10s

ToBeFrank123

Slattsy wrote: »

Has anyone from Mayo ever gone on to be an elite athlete or sportsperson?

Do Mayo have any (worthwhile) soccer clubs? Or Rugby? Can't think of any boxers that represented Ireland come to think of it..

Plenty of GAA lads that are half decent tbf. Wonder why that is. Hmmm

There are few/no sporting centres of excellence in Mayo so that immediately puts the county at a disadvantage. Nevertheless sport is strong.

Westport United have reached junior FAI cup finals.
Various underage soccer teams regularly reach all finals and semi finals and win regionally.
Ballina are strong in the rugby but obviously you need to move to Connacht to go professional.
The Ballina basketball team competed for a few years but fell away.
One or two nifty boxers.
A couple good athletes.

Not sure I said competitors in other sports had to compete at an elite level by the way. I said the sports were strong in that there are a lot of registered players playing them.

ToBeFrank123

kilns wrote: »

The problem is you do have an axe to grind and are blind to it, being from Mayo i dont blame you because you have come close but have been beaten by a better team in the last few years and now that Mayo team are more or less gone, it could be a long time before they have a change to win an All Ireland again

But yes the GAA do have an urban problem which they have addressed in Dublin but need to look at it in the bigger towns and cities around Ireland, I would back 100% anything that improves this.

Can you quote me figures as to how participation has not increased and stating the fact that non nationals are not representing Dublin is not a reasonable argument, can you tell me there are no non national kids playing with clubs? Off the top of my head I can name 5 different nationalities playing with our boys under 10s

Ah here we go again with this nonsense.

The facts about Dublins funding advantage are out there, not made up by me. You just bypass the facts and go straight for the man. Expected at this stage.

How many nationalities are playing with your under 20s?

Slattsy

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Slattsy wrote: »

Has anyone from Mayo ever gone on to be an elite athlete or sportsperson?

Do Mayo have any (worthwhile) soccer clubs? Or Rugby? Can't think of any boxers that represented Ireland come to think of it..

Plenty of GAA lads that are half decent tbf. Wonder why that is. Hmmm

There are few/no sporting centres of excellence in Mayo so that immediately puts the county at a disadvantage. Nevertheless sport is strong.

Westport United have reached junior FAI cup finals.
Various underage soccer teams regularly reach all finals and semi finals and win regionally.
Ballina are strong in the rugby but obviously you need to move to Connacht to go professional.
The Ballina basketball team competed for a few years but fell away.
One or two nifty boxers.
A couple good athletes.

Not sure I said competitors in other sports had to compete at an elite level by the way. I said the sports were strong in that there are a lot of registered players playing them.

Thanks for clearing that up.

As you were.

ToBeFrank123

Slattsy wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up.

As you were.

I cleared it up pretty well. Its not my fault you or Kilns can't accept there are other sports in Mayo that are competing with the GAA.

The suggestion that its GAA or nothing in Mayo is more of the usual nonsense.

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Ah here we go again with this nonsense.

The facts about Dublins funding advantage are out there, not made up by me. You just bypass the facts and go straight for the man. Expected at this stage.

How many nationalities are playing with your under 20s?

Its not nonsense when it clearly clouds your judgement

Dublin have advantages in many forms, mostly population and the small size of the county and yes the funding has let children play the game who might not have got an opportunity and yes with more children playing the game the chances of a better player representing Dublin increases but the whole point is that is not the objective of the GAA. The GAA was dying a slow death in Dublin and something needed to be done and it has been done and very succesfully i might add. Its an ongoing process but they are trying to rebalance take for example the 2018 figures - Dublin received 1.3m and Mayo 134k. On the face of it you might complain thats so unfair but you have to break it down per child and it works out at 4,31 per child vs 3,93

Who cares how many nationalities play with the under 20s non nationals participation is not an accurate way to gauge participation. There are 302,748 children under 18 in Dublin, 11,283 are non nationals which is 3.7%. All from census figures if you wish to check

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I cleared it up pretty well. Its not my fault you or Kilns can't accept there are other sports in Mayo that are competing with the GAA.

The suggestion that its GAA or nothing in Mayo is more of the usual nonsense.

Its not on the same scale and you know it. The GAA is the number one sport in about 90% of every rural area in the country, in Dublin I would argue that figure would be around 30/40% if that

ToBeFrank123

kilns wrote: »

Its not on the same scale and you know it. The GAA is the number one sport in about 90% of every rural area in the country, in Dublin I would argue that figure would be around 30/40% if that

These are stats you pulled out of nowhere and based on your opinion. I doubt you'd let me away with doing the same.

Re rural areas, you know as well as I there is a GAA club and a soccer club in virtually every town and village in Ireland.

The reverse is also true btw, in many parts of Dublin the GAA is overwhelmingly the number 1 sport and others don't even come close. Agreed?

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

These are stats you pulled out of nowhere and based on your opinion. I doubt you'd let me away with doing the same.

Re rural areas, you know as well as I there is a GAA club and a soccer club in virtually every town and village in Ireland.

The reverse is also true btw, in many parts of Dublin the GAA is overwhelmingly the number 1 sport and others don't even come close. Agreed?

I agree but i would say they are a very close estimate or what would you suggest they would be?

Thats why I stated 90%, the other 10% would be made of up of soccer and rugby being the number 1 sport in rural areas but we both know its rare in rural areas where GAA is not number one

I agree thats why I stated 30/40 % that its number 1 in Dublin but on the flip side up until 15 years they would have been zero presence in certain parts of Dublin. Look at Ranelagh Gaels as an example there was no club in Dublin 6 (which is a huge area with a huge population) up until around 2003/2004, now its in there and thriving. That is the same thing the GAA need to do with big towns around ireland like Drogheda, Dundalk, Galway City etc

ToBeFrank123

Well it appears soccer is the number 1 sport across Ireland and by a long way.

https://www.balls.ie/football/soccer-players-gaa-players-ireland-went-war-whod-win-108849

The battle for the hearts and minds of the Irish sporting youth has long been a contentious and highly political one. Soccer sits atop the pile with 340,070 participants across the country in 2,500 clubs. The GAA finds itself in second place with 294, 577 registered players across 2,359 clubs. Rugby, though growing, is a distant third with 158,685 registered players and 236 clubs.

But again, there's need for a further breakdown of the stats for Dublin and the rest of the country. But it is interesting that there are more soccer clubs than gaelic ones in Ireland.

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Well it appears soccer is the number 1 sport across Ireland and by a long way.

https://www.balls.ie/football/soccer-players-gaa-players-ireland-went-war-whod-win-108849



But again, there's need for a further breakdown of the stats for Dublin and the rest of the country. But it is interesting that there are more soccer clubs than gaelic ones in Ireland.

Not surprising really, however in terms of clubs, I know a group guys who just formed their own "club" for just their team to have a kick about on a Sunday afternoon, there are plenty of those around Dublin

lukin

kilns wrote: »

which it is, funding that comes from the GAA for games development (which are the figures which are always discussed) not one Euro goes to the running of the senior teams and if you would like to provide evidence to the contrary I would be delighted to see it

How do we know that Dublin are spending all this Games Development money on kids? Is there a way it can be proven? And let's say they were; then surely if the GAA are providing these huge sums of money for Games development then it frees up a lot of Dublin GAA's "normal" income for spending on the senior team?
I expect you will come back with an argument to disprove this also.

Jaden

lukin wrote: »

How do we know that Dublin are spending all this Games Development money on kids? Is there a way it can be proven? And let's say they were; then surely if the GAA are providing these huge sums of money for Games development then it frees up a lot of Dublin GAA's "normal" income for spending on the senior team?
I expect you will come back with an argument to disprove this also.

Switch Dublin for literally any other county, and the question still stands. Odd that one specific county would be singled out.

Wait, that's not odd...

Stoner

ToBeFrank123 wrote:

The reverse is also true btw, in many parts of Dublin the GAA is overwhelmingly the number 1 sport and others don't even come close. Agreed?

No, absolutely not

Soccer is no 1 and for good reason

lukin

Jaden wrote: »

Switch Dublin for literally any other county, and the question still stands. Odd that one specific county would be singled out.

Wait, that's not odd...

So just so I can be absolutely unequivocal about this; you are saying that the funding Dublin have received from the GAA has not helped them in any way to win all the All-Ireland's they have won?
A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice, no need for a long-winded answer.

kilns

lukin wrote: »

So just so I can be absolutely unequivocal about this; you are saying that the funding Dublin have received from the GAA has not helped them in any way to win all the All-Ireland's they have won?
A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice, no need for a long-winded answer.

No, population, ease of movement within the county, facilities (DCU) and some of the greatest players ever to play the game along with one of the greatest manager plus the lack of any real depth of decent opposition over this time has been a much bigger factor

If Dublin did not receive a penny of funding would we still have had Cluxton, Cooper, McCarthy, OSullivan, McCaffrey, Fenton, Brogan, Costello, Flynn, Connolly, Kilkenny, Mannion - yes we would

Would DCU be there? - yes it would (it was being used in the 90s and 00s too)

Is Dublin small so it is easy to reach training sessions etc - yes it is

Is the population huge compared to other counties and therefore a natural larger pick of players - yes it is

Is the standard of opposition in general poor - yes, only Mayo (being better than the sum of their parts) have really pushed Dublin once or twice but still never beat them under Gavin

So take away the funding and Dublin still would have won all before them


The funding has revived clubs and got more children involved in the sports both boys and girls

Beechwoodspark

kilns wrote: »

No, population, ease of movement within the county, facilities (DCU) and some of the greatest players ever to play the game along with one of the greatest manager plus the lack of any real depth of decent opposition over this time has been a much bigger factor

The funding has revived clubs and got more children involved in the sports both boys and girls

So from the way you have worded the above, you are saying money did play a factor but other advantages were bigger factors?

kilns

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So from the way you have worded the above, you are saying money did play a factor but other advantages were bigger factors?

I am saying for the current team the funding was not a factor, the funding has helped clubs attract more children and for new clubs and areas where no children have previously been reached to be able now to be reached and brought into the game

If the funding is to have an impact it will be long term and you will see I would estimate in 5 to 10 years, however, if you look at under age success as a barometer than so far you could argue that funding is not directly related to success

lukin

kilns wrote: »

So take away the funding and Dublin still would have won all before them

Delusional.

kilns

lukin wrote: »

Delusional.

Do you dispute the points I made which are not funding related, I would like to hear

lukin

kilns wrote: »

Do you dispute the points I made which are not funding related, I would like to hear

It seems an amazing coincidence that Dublin's period of dominance began a few years after the time that ye started to receive all this extra funding. It's just a coincidence though I am sure.

Dots1982

Understand that the funding figures make peoples’ eye bulge but really this domination comes down to population mainly

Between 1990-2016 Dublin population increased by 300,000 people. So much more than the present entire populations of Kildare and Meath.

It’s not a sexy issue like funding but it’s far more key to properly understanding Dublin’s success.

kilns

lukin wrote: »

It seems an amazing coincidence that Dublin's period of dominance began a few years after the time that ye started to receive all this extra funding. It's just a coincidence though I am sure.

Again the points i made, where do you dispute the points?

its not an amazing coincidence that Dublin have a very good group of players, they have had many in the past, the difference now is management and a winning mentality.

kilns

Dots1982 wrote: »

Understand that the funding figures make peoples’ eye bulge but really this domination comes down to population mainly

Between 1990-2016 Dublin population increased by 300,000 people. So much more than the present entire populations of Kildare and Meath.

It’s not a sexy issue like funding but it’s far more key to properly understanding Dublin’s success.

I personally think although it wont be popular that Dublin will have to be split into 2, it will take the ethos of the GAA away or the alternative is that some weaker counties combine, either way its not a popular issue.

If for example Dublin did split in two would that also mean the club scene would have to split in two also?