Dairy Chitchat 3

Mortelaro · 24-05-2020 6:10pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Young lad drives me twisty here when he doesn't empty a jar between cows especially at this time of year. They do empty themselves but sometimes he can't wait

Our jars have the old time Delaval levers
Centre wash
Back holds jar
Front milks straight out of the jar to receiver jar while milking
Only hold the jar when recording or treated

alps · 24-05-2020 6:13pm

Mach Two wrote: »

If the feeding value of good quality grass equals the feeding value of meal why feed meal.

The basis of ferocious debate at times.

It all hinges around substitution. If the meal fed means a reduction in grass intake, then it becomes questionable at best, but the question whether there has been substitution is unresolved.

I bet the guys above have little or no substitution effect when matching meal fed to output..intake will always increase with more than 1 fodder offered.

To stay on the correct side of the debate, feed up to the point where the cows are not achieving proper residuals....feeding beyond that point is definitely waste.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 24-05-2020 7:40pm

Mortelaro wrote: »

Our jars have the old time Delaval levers
Centre wash
Back holds jar
Front milks straight out of the jar to receiver jar while milking
Only hold the jar when recording or treated

Always hold it in the jar here. Mostly to check the milk if a cow bleeds into the udder or shows mastitis late into milking. A lot of the cows here wouldn't let down milk if they're coming into heat or already in heat so an additional check for heats.

The second lad prepares the cow and draws her and then lets up the milk while I'd have the milk left up while putting on the previous cow but he's starting to cop onto things like that a bit more now.

whelan2 · 24-05-2020 8:00pm

Mach Two wrote: »

Is that 2 kg on top of a set amount of meal you are giving to all the cows.

Yes.

Mach Two · 24-05-2020 8:09pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Yes.

Is it fair to ask how much are they getting across the board.

straight · 24-05-2020 8:12pm

Ya I wouldn't be without jars either. Great for spotting sick cow and for holding milk. I couldn't be fiddling around with pulling off milk tubes and using a dump bucket. That would be a backward step. I presume you could still do fty with jars. I've batch feeders so theres no such thing as an extra pull.

Mach Two · 24-05-2020 8:14pm

How much do jars cost. Not a simple question to answer.

whelan2 · 24-05-2020 9:15pm

Mach Two wrote: »

How much do jars cost. Not a simple question to answer.

There should be plenty of second hand jars around

whelan2 · 24-05-2020 9:17pm

Mach Two wrote: »

Is it fair to ask how much are they getting across the board.

4kg per day atm. Then extra for high yielders. Just have cashman feeders. New parlour hopefully going in next year

straight · 25-05-2020 9:52am

If grass is going blue/black on top is it from frost or a lack of nitrogen. Spreading 20 units of 18's here and I'm afraid I'm a bit low on nitrogen. Grass just stopped growing here in the frosty weather and all the ground is cracked open. Could I spread half a bag on the ground they're going into in 7 days

Keep Sluicing · 25-05-2020 10:26am

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Because it's what you want to hear maybe.

Maybe the results of the trial is what you wanted to hear?

trixi2011 · 25-05-2020 10:37am

All this talk of fty ,feeding cows the best quality conentrates , alot of farmers in the north were pushing out big litres a cow by using all these things in the 90 and 2000s and that didn't want well for alot of them , now I'm a big believer of feeding cows to reach there potential but only if it's profitable . How much extra profit is fty system delivering ?

Mach Two · 25-05-2020 10:41am

whelan2 wrote: »

4kg per day atm. Then extra for high yielders. Just have cashman feeders. New parlour hopefully going in next year

That is a considerable amount of feed on grass. So some cows are getting 8 kg/day.

GrasstoMilk · 25-05-2020 11:06am

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

Maybe the results of the trial is what you wanted to hear?

Maybe so but I know quite a few who are doing big kgs with no fty.
2 guys in my dg did just short of 580 kgs in 2019.
Fed well with 1.2t each.
Alot doing 550 or so aswell
Have a friend who did 570 kgs with a crossbred herd no fty either

blackdog1 · 25-05-2020 11:26am

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Maybe so but I know quite a few who are doing big kgs with no fty.
2 guys in my dg did just short of 580 kgs in 2019.
Fed well with 1.2t each.
Alot doing 550 or so aswell
Have a friend who did 570 kgs with a crossbred herd no fty either

i did 612kgs with a pedigree herd no fty on just over 1.5 tonne a cow and i still want fty in my parlour. the thing is if big milking cows aren't getting the right amount of feed it affects them going back in calf. my calving interval is 411 which I recon i could get down considerably while keeping my production if the high yielders where getting fed better. I am also in a split herd so definitely would make sense for me.

mahoney_j · 25-05-2020 11:53am

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Maybe so but I know quite a few who are doing big kgs with no fty.
2 guys in my dg did just short of 580 kgs in 2019.
Fed well with 1.2t each.
Alot doing 550 or so aswell
Have a friend who did 570 kgs with a crossbred herd no fty either

Not doubting any of that but do they have a diet feeder ???,u could have maize/beet moist grains etc going in outside of parlour .the thing I find with selling those kind of kgms with no fty is some cows are underfed and more overfeed .fry would possibly save them feed by concentrating the feed to the cows doing that bit more

GrasstoMilk · 25-05-2020 12:19pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not doubting any of that but do they have a diet feeder ???,u could have maize/beet moist grains etc going in outside of parlour .the thing I find with selling those kind of kgms with no fty is some cows are underfed and more overfeed .fry would possibly save them feed by concentrating the feed to the cows doing that bit more

My friend with crossbreds has a feeder, one of guys that i mentioned from the dg has one also. Other is just good bales and nuts.
Yes possibly might save meal but with the price of the fty system you would be a long time getting back the price of it in what's saved in meal

atlantic mist · 25-05-2020 12:48pm

i know of a few herds in uk that base meal feed only on condition score of the animals...something im consedering trialing

lad beside me is using field to yield based on solids not litres, not sure if i like as only tested once a month, but he is very happy with results

im always questioning our method, especially when i see lads feeding 2/3 kg for a similar amount of litres in production, ive tried dropping but condition drops of their back and i spend the whole milking being eyeballed by cows for more feed

i think your location, land type, cow type and personal preference play a part, plenty of ways to skin a cat

orm0nd · 25-05-2020 12:51pm

straight wrote: »

If grass is going blue/black on top is it from frost or a lack of nitrogen. Spreading 20 units of 18's here and I'm afraid I'm a bit low on nitrogen. Grass just stopped growing here in the frosty weather and all the ground is cracked open. Could I spread half a bag on the ground they're going into in 7 days

it's usually from cold nights or lack of moisture, plays havoc with solids if long term

neighbour said to me last week , think your field needs sulphur

no i said , all that field needs is rain , got some since but drying out very fast

mahoney_j · 25-05-2020 12:52pm

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

My friend with crossbreds has a feeder, one of guys that i mentioned from the dg has one also. Other is just good bales and nuts.
Yes possibly might save meal but with the price of the fty system you would be a long time getting back the price of it in what's saved in meal

If feeding 1.2/11.5 tonne payback would be lot quicker than you’d think and you’d get more bang for your buck on meal fed

Morris Moss · 25-05-2020 1:01pm

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

My friend with crossbreds has a feeder, one of guys that i mentioned from the dg has one also. Other is just good bales and nuts.
Yes possibly might save meal but with the price of the fty system you would be a long time getting back the price of it in what's saved in meal

I don't know what fty systems your looking at but the difference between dairymaster batch feeders and fty was minimal here, no point in feeding a cow that's doing 20 litres the same as a one doing 50, and then wondering why your best cows aren't going in calf again

Saw it here over the years absolutely smashing cows not in calf and an aul screw of a yoke in calf, hasn't happened for the last 2 years thankfully

jaymla627 · 25-05-2020 1:19pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not doubting any of that but do they have a diet feeder ???,u could have maize/beet moist grains etc going in outside of parlour .the thing I find with selling those kind of kgms with no fty is some cows are underfed and more overfeed .fry would possibly save them feed by concentrating the feed to the cows doing that bit more

Main issue with feeding nuts is the railroading you get of merchants for their ‘premium’ spec nuts with all the goodies , used to feeding up to 10kgs of nuts here to high yielders through the parlour but am down to 3 kgs now with cows feed a tmr of beet/silage/course ration now of 7kgs dm per head daily.....
Yield is holding on par with other years but bf and cow condition is a lot better due to a more balanced diet

GrasstoMilk · 25-05-2020 1:33pm

Morris Moss wrote: »

I don't know what fty systems your looking at but the difference between dairymaster batch feeders and fty was minimal here, no point in feeding a cow that's doing 20 litres the same as a one doing 50, and then wondering why your best cows aren't going in calf again

Saw it here over the years absolutely smashing cows not in calf and an aul screw of a yoke in calf, hasn't happened for the last 2 years thankfully

What about the cost of the meters? The electronic feeders are about 500e a cow space iirc along with the meters it's a nice chunk of money. Increased service costs then aswell.

Sure look it's up to one self what they want to spend money on but it's not all nessecary to get cows milking well and the pay back is quite a while

Buford T. Justice XIX · 25-05-2020 1:47pm

What's the weather forecast for the next few days?

I have a strong paddock to take out in the next 2 or 3 days and would like some bit of dry weather before taking it out.

And some rain then to get it growing again:rolleyes:

thisyear · 25-05-2020 2:34pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNdwAZHTmic&t=6s

Saw this on facebook. Heard her talk at grasslands conference earlier in the year

Timmaay · 25-05-2020 2:49pm

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

What about the cost of the meters? The electronic feeders are about 500e a cow space iirc along with the meters it's a nice chunk of money. Increased service costs then aswell.

Sure look it's up to one self what they want to spend money on but it's not all nessecary to get cows milking well and the pay back is quite a while

Dm batch feeders are an absolute rip off in comparison to the likes of pig feeders which do the same job and are simpler.

Mooooo · 25-05-2020 2:59pm

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

What about the cost of the meters? The electronic feeders are about 500e a cow space iirc along with the meters it's a nice chunk of money. Increased service costs then aswell.

Sure look it's up to one self what they want to spend money on but it's not all nessecary to get cows milking well and the pay back is quite a while

I enquired about a cluster flush system and swing over arms and acrs this spring, and added the metre wouldn't have been a whole pile extra. Didn't go with any of it after

Morris Moss · 25-05-2020 4:07pm

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

What about the cost of the meters? The electronic feeders are about 500e a cow space iirc along with the meters it's a nice chunk of money. Increased service costs then aswell.

Sure look it's up to one self what they want to spend money on but it's not all nessecary to get cows milking well and the pay back is quite a while

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head as it was a new parlour we put in, but the fty was 1.5k extra over batch feeders

Your right each to their own, as a lad said to me, every cripple has his own way of walking ha.

Timmaay · 25-05-2020 5:14pm

Morris Moss wrote: »

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head as it was a new parlour we put in, but the fty was 1.5k extra over batch feeders

Your right each to their own, as a lad said to me, every cripple has his own way of walking ha.

1500 per unit for a full fty maybe? For my 14unit it was 4500 for the pig batch feeders, or 14k for a cashman manual individual feeder system. If I remember correctly the cheapest fully automatic fty system at the time was in around 25k for the 14units.

Timmaay · 25-05-2020 5:14pm

Morris Moss wrote: »

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head as it was a new parlour we put in, but the fty was 1.5k extra over batch feeders

Your right each to their own, as a lad said to me, every cripple has his own way of walking ha.

1500 per unit for a full fty maybe? For my 14unit it was 4500 for the pig batch feeders, or 14k for a cashman manual individual feeder system. If I remember correctly the cheapest fully automatic fty system at the time was in around 25k for the 14units.

Mortelaro · 25-05-2020 6:04pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

What's the weather forecast for the next few days?

I have a strong paddock to take out in the next 2 or 3 days and would like some bit of dry weather before taking it out.

And some rain then to get it growing again:rolleyes:

I'm not expecting any rain here between now and Sunday
The only risk down your area might be heat induced isolated thunderstorms drifting in at some point but I doubt it at this stage

Buford T. Justice XIX · 25-05-2020 6:12pm

Mortelaro wrote: »

I'm not expecting any rain here between now and Sunday
The only risk down your area might be heat induced isolated thunderstorms drifting in at some point but I doubt it at this stage

Thanks for that.

A bit of drizzle now so I'll probably cut it after dinner tomorrow.

Gillespy · 25-05-2020 6:27pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Main issue with feeding nuts is the railroading you get of merchants for their ‘premium’ spec nuts with all the goodies , used to feeding up to 10kgs of nuts here to high yielders through the parlour but am down to 3 kgs now with cows feed a tmr of beet/silage/course ration now of 7kgs dm per head daily.....
Yield is holding on par with other years but bf and cow condition is a lot better due to a more balanced diet

Have you considered giving everything with the feeder? Cows are milked all over the world with no feeding in the parlour. Can't imagine our cows adapting too easily though. They will start backing out and stop coming in when they see no meal.

Cows walk past a 140 foot wall here on their way into milking so I always had in mind putting a trough along that and feed them there. Keeps them out of the shed where it gets slippery and it's nice to have it empty and clean for the summer.

Mooooo · 25-05-2020 7:05pm

Fed here with no parlour feeders for years. If plenty headspace and space to split aut/ spring groups if split milking its fine. Drawback of feeding meal is holding cow's back instead of leaving back out to field. Cow's are way quieter to milk without feeders in the parlour. May walk in a bit slower but go out faster. Having said that put them in here and wouldn't go back to without for convenience sake. Had to split the cow's when feeding as didn't have headspace and in winter spring girls were being over fed thru the wagon as not space to split up as well holding cow's to feed when they could have gone straight out. If buffer feeding all year round may be no need for feeders.
What are the feed costs/ litre for those of ye feeding at that level?

Gawddawggonnit · 25-05-2020 8:31pm

Gave a lot of thought into going fty. Visited several farms etc to get the lowdown. The one thing that turned me off them was cows clattering the hell out of them trying to get more meal. I know that’s no real reason to not get them, but that’s me.
No in-parlor feeders in France because everyone has a diet feeder so the feeders would be in the cubicle shed and the clattering would be incessant and annoying.
We can easily produce 10K+L (or 740kg+ in NZ speak) without fty, and it would also mean we’d have to buy ration which would make me break out in hives.

Morris Moss · 25-05-2020 8:35pm

Timmaay wrote: »

1500 per unit for a full fty maybe? For my 14unit it was 4500 for the pig batch feeders, or 14k for a cashman manual individual feeder system. If I remember correctly the cheapest fully automatic fty system at the time was in around 25k for the 14units.

I'm just going on what we were quoted for the whole parlour, but apologies I did make a balls of it, it was actually those individual feeders not batch feeders, it was the difference between those and fty that was small.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 26-05-2020 11:16am

I kept a few cows this morning for the vet to handle, calved over 70 days and not showing heat. So I was expecting a few coils going in but it turns out a good share were in calf. Looks like one of my bulls was jumping into the calved cows and jumping back in before I caught him, the fecker:(

So I'll have a few calving from mid January next year, not the end of the world really as I'll have a sup of spare milk for the lambs:)

whelan2 · 26-05-2020 11:50am

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I kept a few cows this morning for the vet to handle, calved over 70 days and not showing heat. So I was expecting a few coils going in but it turns out a good share were in calf. Looks like one of my bulls was jumping into the calved cows and jumping back in before I caught him, the fecker:(

So I'll have a few calving from mid January next year, not the end of the world really as I'll have a sup of spare milk for the lambs:)

Shorten the calving interval too, lucky you didn't estrumate them

Buford T. Justice XIX · 26-05-2020 1:22pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Shorten the calving interval too, lucky you didn't estrumate them

I'd always get them handled before I'd do anything, I nearly got caught with a cow I was giving estrumate to years ago but she broke out before I could give her a shot. Had the vet in the yard the following morning and he handled her and found she was well in calf.

I really need to get my bull pens sorted this year but it'll have to wait till I upgrade the water pipes to the cows.

And a 2 or 3c rise in price:rolleyes:

Mooooo · 26-05-2020 2:15pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'd always get them handled before I'd do anything, I nearly got caught with a cow I was giving estrumate to years ago but she broke out before I could give her a shot. Had the vet in the yard the following morning and he handled her and found she was well in calf.

I really need to get my bull pens sorted this year but it'll have to wait till I upgrade the water pipes to the cows.

And a 2 or 3c rise in price:rolleyes:

Had two land Xmas week here..... for bull pens I welded another bar a foot or so over the barrier and gates in to the pen stops any from jumping over. Have locking barrier as well in it put shoukd have put it higher as it's awkward to lock em esp the old fella as he is cute to it closing now

huntinghill · 27-05-2020 9:31am

For anyone measuring grass, how do your calculations change as the year goes on? I have just started measuring this year with a Jenquip EC09. I subtract 1500 from the total I get after a walk. Should I be doing something different in dry weather/different growth stages.

kevthegaff · 27-05-2020 11:17pm

Are lads still spreading fertiliser?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 27-05-2020 11:43pm

kevthegaff wrote: »

Are lads still spreading fertiliser?

Yeah, a bag of 20N 6P and 6S as soon as the cows are out of the paddock. We still have growth here, was at 77 on Monday so will stay going till growth stops.

visatorro · 28-05-2020 7:36am

Dead crow in a drinker yesterday morning. Fished it out with a pigtail. Another dead crow in same drinker this morning. Dirty bastards

visatorro · 28-05-2020 7:37am

kevthegaff wrote:

Are lads still spreading fertiliser?

Contractor coming tomorrow to do silage ground. Have protected urea for a few paddocks with a cover on them. Time will tell whether I'll be wasting my time

Buford T. Justice XIX · 29-05-2020 1:18pm

Just did a walk this morning, growth back again to 64, just matching demand. I have a strong paddock, up at 2200 and starting to head out that I was hoping to take out this week but I'll be left with a massive hole in the wedge if I don't graze it.

Rain needed here again, the heavier paddocks motoring at over 90 and the drier ones in the 40s.

visatorro · 29-05-2020 1:19pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote:

Just did a walk this morning, growth back again to 64, just matching demand. I have a strong paddock, up at 2200 and starting to head out that I was hoping to take out this week but I'll be left with a massive hole in the wedge if I don't graze it.

Didn't hit 64 all year. Normally in the 40s ,one week 56 I think. Silage back in today

GrasstoMilk · 29-05-2020 1:24pm

visatorro wrote: »

Didn't hit 64 all year. Normally in the 40s ,one week 56 I think. Silage back in today

Why have you had such low growth?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 29-05-2020 1:24pm

visatorro wrote: »

Didn't hit 64 all year. Normally in the 40s ,one week 56 I think. Silage back in today

That's squeaky bum time, full time!

If I saw a drop of rain coming, I'd take it out even if I had to feed some back in a week, just to keep the quality in the sward but I don't think I'll have that option from now on.

There's a good few paddocks starting to head out as well.

Have you enough ground closed for winter silage?

whelan2 · 29-05-2020 1:32pm

visatorro wrote: »

Didn't hit 64 all year. Normally in the 40s ,one week 56 I think. Silage back in today

Just went through my silage ground today. Great crop. Putting 2 of the paddocks in with it into pit will cut next week.

Dairy Chitchat 3

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