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Property Market 2020

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    #7952
    OttoPilot
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭OttoPilot


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Sure, my example didn't have that though..
    Fair play on the other lad for getting his house for nothing.

    Didnt have what? A bailout?


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    #7953
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Dav010 wrote: »
    How do you know the information is real and honest?

    Well it's in writing, so if it wasn't correct/true then loss of license and fines would be the punishment...if an EA tells you property has X offered on it it's a matter of he said/she said and very hard to prove..


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    #7954
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    OttoPilot wrote: »
    True, but the details of payments to directors is public knowledge. The investment is highly liquid. That's not a bad thing. For instance, the prices of REITs fell sharply since Jan. If you believe the underlying assets are still quality, then it's a great buying opportunity for a stable dividend. Personally, I will be interested to see what non-payment and vacancy rates are like and how they compare to non-institutional landlords.

    if i had a hundred grand to spend right now , id much rather buy the IRES reit than a single property , the dividend yield is 5% yet despite this , the stock almost halved in value , its since back up about a third , foreign money dumped indescriminantly


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    #7955
    SteelyDanJalapeno
    Registered Users Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    Dav010 wrote: »
    How do you know the information is real and honest?

    everything sold can be cross referenced on PPR, it's in their best interest to be honest, they'd be found out fairly soon otherwise.

    I'd also guess the sellers may have a problem with them listing no offer for their property if they were lying on other properties.


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    #7956
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »
    everything sold can be cross referenced on PPR, it's in their best interest to be honest, they'd be found out fairly soon otherwise.

    I'd also guess the sellers may have a problem with them listing no offer for their property if they were lying on other properties.

    Bit of an aside but the PPR is so sh1te. They put in the bare minimum of information. It's useless for figuring the market rate. Also, some of the properties have incorrect addresses or at least don't show up right in the search.


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    #7957
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Just wondering...if you are selling a house, do you have to sell it to the highest bidder?

    Just something that popped into my head


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    #7958
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,743 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Just wondering...if you are selling a house, do you have to sell it to the highest bidder?

    Just something that popped into my head

    course not, you can sell it to whoever you want.


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    #7959
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Cyrus wrote: »
    course not, you can sell it to whoever you want.

    Was always curious, as if you sell it cheaper the Tax man misses out on monies


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    #7960
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,438 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Was always curious, as if you sell it cheaper the Tax man misses out on monies

    Tax is payable on the market value.

    If you sell it for less than the market value that's up to you, but the tax man will get what he's owed none the less.

    You can't sell your house to your mate for half the value to try dodge tax.


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    #7961
    SteelyDanJalapeno
    Registered Users Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Bit of an aside but the PPR is so sh1te. They put in the bare minimum of information. It's useless for figuring the market rate. Also, some of the properties have incorrect addresses or at least don't show up right in the search.

    Agreed on the spelling I'd say people purposely misspell half the time to hide the cost.

    I do think it's a great tool thou to see even the area or a streets worth


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    #7962
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,743 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Was always curious, as if you sell it cheaper the Tax man misses out on monies

    not on a ppr (in most cases)

    i was more thinking of a situation where you may sell for 10-20k less to someone who isnt in a chain that kind of thing.


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    #7963
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »
    everything sold can be cross referenced on PPR, it's in their best interest to be honest, they'd be found out fairly soon otherwise.

    I'd also guess the sellers may have a problem with them listing no offer for their property if they were lying on other properties.

    That is a record of bids, it is not a record of who made the bids. All EA’s must keep a record of bids, just because it is published on a website makes it no more transparent, honest or indeed real than another EA writing a bid in their book. Unless of course you believe everything on the internet is true.


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    #7964
    SteelyDanJalapeno
    Registered Users Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    Dav010 wrote: »
    That is a record of bids, it is not a record of who made the bids. All EA’s must keep a record of bids, just because it is published on a website makes it no more transparent, honest or indeed real than another EA writing a bid in their book. Unless of course you believe everything on the internet is true.

    Right..... Assuming they're both true, I can't currently see the EAs "book", I can see the bids on auctioneers.
    Hence why I said it's more transparent to me right now at this time...


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    #7965
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »
    Right..... Assuming they're both true, I can't currently see the EAs "book", I can see the bids on auctioneers.
    Hence why I said it's more transparent to me right now at this time...

    I’d be inclined to thinks it’s a gimmick open to abuse, what owner/EA wants their property to show no/very low bids?

    And before you ask, I’m not an EA.


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    #7966
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    OttoPilot wrote: »
    Any investment makes more returns if you borrow. It's called leverage. Doesn't mean it's not risky. More leverage = more risk

    I will admit the tax breaks for primary residence make it an attractive option however the benefits are rarely realised because anyone selling if just putting those gains into a bigger house, further inflating housing bubble.

    There is more risk. In the apartment I was in today the owner had 2 cash negative periods total about 6 years over the 23 years of ownership. The borrower has to be able to survive the bad times occasionally, nevertheless the apart is 100% bought with tenants money and cash flow positive on into the future.


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    #7967
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Cyrus wrote: »
    not on a ppr (in most cases)

    i was more thinking of a situation where you may sell for 10-20k less to someone who isnt in a chain that kind of thing.

    ppr? Property price registry

    What do you mean by your second point?


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    #7968
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,743 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    principal private residence

    i meant that if you are selling and have several bidders the highest may not be the best offer for you.


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    #7969
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,084 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    ppr? Property price registry

    What do you mean by your second point?

    A cash buyer can in some cases negotiate a discount as there is less delays (does not need to sell in order to buy, does not have to wait for mortgage draw down) and the finance is not subject to survey. Therefore many sellers prefer a cash buyer over a buyer who needs finance or is in a chain. The buyer may therefore be more inclined to take less from a cash buyer.


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    #7970
    sanfranbest
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭sanfranbest


    It would be a very brave buyer to complete a purchase right now,

    Everything points to a reduction in prices in the coming year.

    But then again if the seller offered a 10% price reduction to close the sale!

    What would you do?


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    #7971
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Property investment makes more sense if you borrow. I was in an apartment this morning. The owner bought it in 1997 for about £80,000 roughly €100,000. He borrowed £86,000 so the entire purchase including fit out was funded from borrowed money. He qualified for section 23 relief of £64,000 saving himself about £30,000 in tax. The rent covered the interest payments on the apartment and it when cash flow positive after three years. It went cash flow negative for three years around 2010. Now the loan is paid off and the apartment is bringing in about €1600 month. For no cash at all, the owner has acquired an asset worth over €200,000 and apart from service charge and some maintenance has an income of €19,200 per annum.


    if he had the cash to make the same investment without borrowing he would have saved the money spent in paying back the interested
    If you borrow money you always need to account for interest, also never take rent money for granted
    I would strongly discourage anyone to borrow money - huge amounts - for an investment property, chances are you'll spend the next 20 years paying mortgage and interested and having all the hassle that comes with tenants


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    #7972
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    1997 was another country when it comes to buy to let , these days with tenants having the upper hand , large borrowings on a place could quickly become a nightmare if you dont get paid any rent for two years


    Absolutely correct. Unfortunately owing an investment property is embedded in our culture and people with no means will go out of their way to borrow money so as to own a second property only to regret it for the following 20 years


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    #7973
    combat14
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭combat14


    how does anyone in dublin buy a house if this is indicative:

    43 Female, Software Technician on 35000 euro
    saving <100 euro a month .......

    http://jrnl.ie/5102325f


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    #7974
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    combat14 wrote: »
    how does anyone in dublin buy a house if this is indicative:

    43 Female, Software Technician on 35000 euro
    saving <100 euro a month .......

    http://jrnl.ie/5102325f


    she spends the most in rent and car loan, both can easily been reduced or avoided altogether


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    #7975
    OttoPilot
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭OttoPilot


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    she spends the most in rent and car loan, both can easily been reduced or avoided altogether

    How do you avoid or reduce paying rent? 800 in dublin is fairly standard.


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    #7976
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    OttoPilot wrote: »
    How do you avoid or reduce paying rent? 800 in dublin is fairly standard.


    best option is to move in with partner who already own a house, in case she has one ;-)
    or she can rent a smaller room outside dublin for 500 and commute to town by bus, a car is expensive to maintain on top of the monthly loan


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    #7977
    Hubertj
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    combat14 wrote: »
    how does anyone in dublin buy a house if this is indicative:

    43 Female, Software Technician on 35000 euro
    saving <100 euro a month .......

    http://jrnl.ie/5102325f

    Needs to look at career progression and upskilling to increase salary potential.


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    #7978
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    best option is to move in with partner who already own a house, in case she has one ;-)
    or she can rent a smaller room outside dublin for 500 and commute to town by bus, a car is expensive to maintain on top of the monthly loan

    She also smokes...3 packs a week if her diary is accurate, unless he bought multiply packs each time...€40.50 a week...€2,106 a year


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    #7979
    Umaro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Umaro


    Why doesn't she just buy an insect infested hovel, wait 2 years and then sell it for 65% more than she bought it?


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    #7980
    megabomberman
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭megabomberman


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Bit of an aside but the PPR is so sh1te. They put in the bare minimum of information. It's useless for figuring the market rate. Also, some of the properties have incorrect addresses or at least don't show up right in the search.

    https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/

    These folk do a decent job of tidying up some of the input errors. The search doesn't completely fail if you accidentally punch in a space after the address. Some additional little features as well.


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    #7981
    sanfranbest
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭sanfranbest


    Yes the property price website is horrendous.

    It should list the following.

    Type of property, house, apartment, site,

    Square meters, so you can see how much was paid by square meter so you can compare to other properties,

    Amount of bedrooms and bathrooms,

    Size of total land, site etc

    Last sold price and date of sale.

    In the USA they have many websites that show every type of history on the property,
    Would love a website like Zillow in Ireland.


This discussion has been closed.
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