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Property Market 2020

Bigmac1euro

Maybe an article for “Property Market 2020”
Anyhow looks like developers are going to start strangling supply in order to keep prices in check.

Worth a read anyway.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/developers-now-fear-flooding-market-as-house-prices-in-decline-38820967.html

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c.p.w.g.w

Dav010 wrote: »

How do you know the information is real and honest?

Well it's in writing, so if it wasn't correct/true then loss of license and fines would be the punishment...if an EA tells you property has X offered on it it's a matter of he said/she said and very hard to prove..

Mad_maxx

OttoPilot wrote: »

True, but the details of payments to directors is public knowledge. The investment is highly liquid. That's not a bad thing. For instance, the prices of REITs fell sharply since Jan. If you believe the underlying assets are still quality, then it's a great buying opportunity for a stable dividend. Personally, I will be interested to see what non-payment and vacancy rates are like and how they compare to non-institutional landlords.

if i had a hundred grand to spend right now , id much rather buy the IRES reit than a single property , the dividend yield is 5% yet despite this , the stock almost halved in value , its since back up about a third , foreign money dumped indescriminantly

SteelyDanJalapeno

Dav010 wrote: »

How do you know the information is real and honest?

everything sold can be cross referenced on PPR, it's in their best interest to be honest, they'd be found out fairly soon otherwise.

I'd also guess the sellers may have a problem with them listing no offer for their property if they were lying on other properties.

Wompa1

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

everything sold can be cross referenced on PPR, it's in their best interest to be honest, they'd be found out fairly soon otherwise.

I'd also guess the sellers may have a problem with them listing no offer for their property if they were lying on other properties.

Bit of an aside but the PPR is so sh1te. They put in the bare minimum of information. It's useless for figuring the market rate. Also, some of the properties have incorrect addresses or at least don't show up right in the search.

c.p.w.g.w

Just wondering...if you are selling a house, do you have to sell it to the highest bidder?

Just something that popped into my head

Cyrus

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Just wondering...if you are selling a house, do you have to sell it to the highest bidder?

Just something that popped into my head

course not, you can sell it to whoever you want.

c.p.w.g.w

Cyrus wrote: »

course not, you can sell it to whoever you want.

Was always curious, as if you sell it cheaper the Tax man misses out on monies

awec

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Was always curious, as if you sell it cheaper the Tax man misses out on monies

Tax is payable on the market value.

If you sell it for less than the market value that's up to you, but the tax man will get what he's owed none the less.

You can't sell your house to your mate for half the value to try dodge tax.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Wompa1 wrote: »

Bit of an aside but the PPR is so sh1te. They put in the bare minimum of information. It's useless for figuring the market rate. Also, some of the properties have incorrect addresses or at least don't show up right in the search.

Agreed on the spelling I'd say people purposely misspell half the time to hide the cost.

I do think it's a great tool thou to see even the area or a streets worth

Cyrus

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Was always curious, as if you sell it cheaper the Tax man misses out on monies

not on a ppr (in most cases)

i was more thinking of a situation where you may sell for 10-20k less to someone who isnt in a chain that kind of thing.

[Deleted User]

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

everything sold can be cross referenced on PPR, it's in their best interest to be honest, they'd be found out fairly soon otherwise.

I'd also guess the sellers may have a problem with them listing no offer for their property if they were lying on other properties.

That is a record of bids, it is not a record of who made the bids. All EA’s must keep a record of bids, just because it is published on a website makes it no more transparent, honest or indeed real than another EA writing a bid in their book. Unless of course you believe everything on the internet is true.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Dav010 wrote: »

That is a record of bids, it is not a record of who made the bids. All EA’s must keep a record of bids, just because it is published on a website makes it no more transparent, honest or indeed real than another EA writing a bid in their book. Unless of course you believe everything on the internet is true.

Right..... Assuming they're both true, I can't currently see the EAs "book", I can see the bids on auctioneers.
Hence why I said it's more transparent to me right now at this time...

[Deleted User]

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Right..... Assuming they're both true, I can't currently see the EAs "book", I can see the bids on auctioneers.
Hence why I said it's more transparent to me right now at this time...

I’d be inclined to thinks it’s a gimmick open to abuse, what owner/EA wants their property to show no/very low bids?

And before you ask, I’m not an EA.

Claw Hammer

OttoPilot wrote: »

Any investment makes more returns if you borrow. It's called leverage. Doesn't mean it's not risky. More leverage = more risk

I will admit the tax breaks for primary residence make it an attractive option however the benefits are rarely realised because anyone selling if just putting those gains into a bigger house, further inflating housing bubble.

There is more risk. In the apartment I was in today the owner had 2 cash negative periods total about 6 years over the 23 years of ownership. The borrower has to be able to survive the bad times occasionally, nevertheless the apart is 100% bought with tenants money and cash flow positive on into the future.

c.p.w.g.w

Cyrus wrote: »

not on a ppr (in most cases)

i was more thinking of a situation where you may sell for 10-20k less to someone who isnt in a chain that kind of thing.

ppr? Property price registry

What do you mean by your second point?

Cyrus

principal private residence

i meant that if you are selling and have several bidders the highest may not be the best offer for you.

[Deleted User]

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

ppr? Property price registry

What do you mean by your second point?

A cash buyer can in some cases negotiate a discount as there is less delays (does not need to sell in order to buy, does not have to wait for mortgage draw down) and the finance is not subject to survey. Therefore many sellers prefer a cash buyer over a buyer who needs finance or is in a chain. The buyer may therefore be more inclined to take less from a cash buyer.

sanfranbest

It would be a very brave buyer to complete a purchase right now,

Everything points to a reduction in prices in the coming year.

But then again if the seller offered a 10% price reduction to close the sale!

What would you do?

Mic 1972

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Property investment makes more sense if you borrow. I was in an apartment this morning. The owner bought it in 1997 for about £80,000 roughly €100,000. He borrowed £86,000 so the entire purchase including fit out was funded from borrowed money. He qualified for section 23 relief of £64,000 saving himself about £30,000 in tax. The rent covered the interest payments on the apartment and it when cash flow positive after three years. It went cash flow negative for three years around 2010. Now the loan is paid off and the apartment is bringing in about €1600 month. For no cash at all, the owner has acquired an asset worth over €200,000 and apart from service charge and some maintenance has an income of €19,200 per annum.

if he had the cash to make the same investment without borrowing he would have saved the money spent in paying back the interested
If you borrow money you always need to account for interest, also never take rent money for granted
I would strongly discourage anyone to borrow money - huge amounts - for an investment property, chances are you'll spend the next 20 years paying mortgage and interested and having all the hassle that comes with tenants

Mic 1972

Mad_maxx wrote: »

1997 was another country when it comes to buy to let , these days with tenants having the upper hand , large borrowings on a place could quickly become a nightmare if you dont get paid any rent for two years

Absolutely correct. Unfortunately owing an investment property is embedded in our culture and people with no means will go out of their way to borrow money so as to own a second property only to regret it for the following 20 years

combat14

how does anyone in dublin buy a house if this is indicative:

43 Female, Software Technician on 35000 euro
saving <100 euro a month .......

http://jrnl.ie/5102325f

Mic 1972

combat14 wrote: »

how does anyone in dublin buy a house if this is indicative:

43 Female, Software Technician on 35000 euro
saving <100 euro a month .......

http://jrnl.ie/5102325f

she spends the most in rent and car loan, both can easily been reduced or avoided altogether

OttoPilot

Mic 1972 wrote: »

she spends the most in rent and car loan, both can easily been reduced or avoided altogether

How do you avoid or reduce paying rent? 800 in dublin is fairly standard.

Mic 1972

OttoPilot wrote: »

How do you avoid or reduce paying rent? 800 in dublin is fairly standard.

best option is to move in with partner who already own a house, in case she has one ;-)
or she can rent a smaller room outside dublin for 500 and commute to town by bus, a car is expensive to maintain on top of the monthly loan

Hubertj

combat14 wrote: »

how does anyone in dublin buy a house if this is indicative:

43 Female, Software Technician on 35000 euro
saving <100 euro a month .......

http://jrnl.ie/5102325f

Needs to look at career progression and upskilling to increase salary potential.

c.p.w.g.w

Mic 1972 wrote: »

best option is to move in with partner who already own a house, in case she has one ;-)
or she can rent a smaller room outside dublin for 500 and commute to town by bus, a car is expensive to maintain on top of the monthly loan

She also smokes...3 packs a week if her diary is accurate, unless he bought multiply packs each time...€40.50 a week...€2,106 a year

Umaro

Why doesn't she just buy an insect infested hovel, wait 2 years and then sell it for 65% more than she bought it?

megabomberman

Wompa1 wrote: »

Bit of an aside but the PPR is so sh1te. They put in the bare minimum of information. It's useless for figuring the market rate. Also, some of the properties have incorrect addresses or at least don't show up right in the search.

https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/

These folk do a decent job of tidying up some of the input errors. The search doesn't completely fail if you accidentally punch in a space after the address. Some additional little features as well.

sanfranbest

Yes the property price website is horrendous.

It should list the following.

Type of property, house, apartment, site,

Square meters, so you can see how much was paid by square meter so you can compare to other properties,

Amount of bedrooms and bathrooms,

Size of total land, site etc

Last sold price and date of sale.

In the USA they have many websites that show every type of history on the property,
Would love a website like Zillow in Ireland.

JJJackal

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Property investment makes more sense if you borrow. I was in an apartment this morning. The owner bought it in 1997 for about £80,000 roughly €100,000. He borrowed £86,000 so the entire purchase including fit out was funded from borrowed money. He qualified for section 23 relief of £64,000 saving himself about £30,000 in tax. The rent covered the interest payments on the apartment and it when cash flow positive after three years. It went cash flow negative for three years around 2010. Now the loan is paid off and the apartment is bringing in about €1600 month. For no cash at all, the owner has acquired an asset worth over €200,000 and apart from service charge and some maintenance has an income of €19,200 per annum.

Property investment makes no sense if you borrow. I was in an apartment this morning. The owner bought it in 2007 for about €500,000 roughly €500,000. He borrowed €450,000 so the entire purchase including fit out was funded from borrowed money. He qualified for very little tax relief of €30,000 saving himself about €14,000 in tax. The rent did not cover the interest payments on the apartment and it when cash flow negative after three months. It went cash flow positive for three years around 2019. Now the loan is €460,000 (had to halt payments for a while as tenants refused to pay) and the apartment is bringing in about €2500 month. For no cash at all, the owner has acquired an asset worth over €450,000 and apart from service charge and some maintenance has an income of €30,000 per annum which just now covers the mortgage.

Learning point - timing is everything