Honestly, what do you think about Season 8? Mod warning post #1/#410

kunst nugget · 14-05-2019 9:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not going to watch the last episode..

Yeah, right...

amacca · 14-05-2019 9:39pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/game-of-thrones-has-descended-into-bumbling-spectacle-and-senseless-plots-1.3892012?mode=amp

They have ruined the show.

People not just suddenly totally acting out of character but actually doing a full 180.

Tyrion Smart to Idiot.
Baelish. Cunning to coward.
Varys. Whisperer to blabberer.
Jamie. Noble to Callous.
John. Dead to Alive to do what? Win staring contests.
Arya. Faceless Superwoman who suddenly gives up for no reason.
Dragons. Powerful to weak to powerful.
Night King. Seriously. I mean wtf. Poof. Its wizard of oz ****. Im melting....
Dany. Breaker of chains to mass murderer.
Bronn. Nada
Bran. Nada. Totally ignored.

No character or plot to go from A to Z

Acting good. Cinematography. Excellent.

You dont need budget and bang when the story and writing is good.

When it is rubbish as it has been then they dont add any gloss.

Im disappointed. I dont care what happens any more

Agreed on practically all points.....

ixoy · 14-05-2019 9:56pm

I'm enjoying it still for what it is. The writing's not what it was and they've done very poor service to some characters - Tyrion in particular - but it's not bothering me hugely. I can understand some people's frustrations although comments like "worst episode of any show ever" are ridiculous (unless this was the only show you watched).

The show didn't help itself when it had no books to use but I do think that the source material itself wasn't going anywhere - the last two books were meandering so I don't think I was ever going to get a satisfying conclusion in any medium. I eagerly devoured "A Storm of Swords" years ago and the books only fell from there, much like the show did at its halfway point (albeit it fell further).

Definitely though it's been far too rushed and I imagine it was the pile of dollars that kept D & D on board the most rather than from love of the show.

facehugger99 · 15-05-2019 8:09am

It's gone from very smart to very dumb.

Happens with a lot of stuff unfortunately.

Creators start trying to please the 'whoop and holler' audience at the expense of subtlety.

Cina · 15-05-2019 8:22am

Episode 1 - OK
Episode 2 - Good, nice build-up
Episode 3 - Spectacular but very flawed
Episode 4 - Hmm this is a bit of a slow open.. OH GOD WHAT THE HELL IS THIS STUPIDITY?
Episode 5 - Wtf is this sh*t? Hey that's a cool set piece, OH WHAT THE HELL IS THIS NONSENSE? Ooh cool battle! Rinse and repeat

Penn · 15-05-2019 9:00am

loyatemu wrote: »

ugh, I really didn't care much about Cleganebowl - the rivalry between them was never properly fleshed out in the TV series (maybe it's different in the books), and what was covered was like 5 seasons ago.

Since the 2 brothers were "resurrected" from their respective deaths they've had very little to do and have only been kept around for their eventual clash.

Have to agree. Never saw why it was being so hyped up. It's also not like they hadn't seen each other since childhood. We repeatedly heard over the seasons how much The Hound hated his brother, yet he seemingly never cared about killing him even to where we saw them briefly fight in Season 1 and The Hound stopped fighting him when King Robert ordered him to. They had no interaction other than that until last season and all of a sudden it became The Hound's life mission to kill his brother.

I enjoyed their fight a lot and it was a good end for The Hound, but it got as much if not a little more time than it deserved and it really seems like one of those things that was added because the fans were hyping it up rather than being in any way vital to the story.

15-05-2019 9:12am

loyatemu wrote: »

ugh, I really didn't care much about Cleganebowl - the rivalry between them was never properly fleshed out in the TV series (maybe it's different in the books), and what was covered was like 5 seasons ago.

Since the 2 brothers were "resurrected" from their respective deaths they've had very little to do and have only been kept around for their eventual clash.

Completely agree. It's a microcosm that represents all of season 7/8. A cool looking moment that the fans wanted that didn't make a whole lot of sense. It's like fan fiction at this point.

LastLagoon · 15-05-2019 9:15am

I just can believe those 2 clowns have ruined what was (in its 1st 4 seasons) one of the best TV shows of all time.
All so they can run off and make some castrated mess of Star Wars trilogy for Disney that nobody wants to see?
If they were tired of GOT then hand it over I’m sure HBO could have found someone to do justice to the story over a few more seasons

loyatemu · 15-05-2019 9:19am

Penn wrote: »

Have to agree. Never saw why it was being so hyped up. It's also not like they hadn't seen each other since childhood. We repeatedly heard over the seasons how much The Hound hated his brother, yet he seemingly never cared about killing him even to where we saw them briefly fight in Season 1 and The Hound stopped fighting him when King Robert ordered him to. They had no interaction other than that until last season and all of a sudden it became The Hound's life mission to kill his brother.

I enjoyed their fight a lot and it was a good end for The Hound, but it got as much if not a little more time than it deserved and it really seems like one of those things that was added because the fans were hyping it up rather than being in any way vital to the story.

They could have left them both dead TBH.

Qyburn turning the Mountain into a zombie didn't really lead anywhere. In fact Qyburn turned out to be a fairly crap evil wizard. He didn't do anything with the severed wight hand he obtained last season, and clearly Kings Landing still had decent stocks of Wildfire but he didn't attempt to use them in the battle. No bonus for Qyburn this year...

Varik · 15-05-2019 9:21am

Pretty disappointing.

Maybe when I binge the whole lot in a few years this season won't stick out as such from an otherwise great show.

Adamocovic · 15-05-2019 9:22am

Sorry if posted but I saw a clip on YouTube of actors and their awkward responses when asked what they felt about the new season.

One stood out though, Joe Dempsie who plays Gendry.
He was doing an interview with Jacob Anderson (Grey Worm) and this was some of the exchange:

When host Jamie East suggested that season seven was 'a bit Avengers Assemble', Dempsie responded: "That's totally what season seven was all about, wasn't it? 'Character development?' 'Nah.' 'Story?' I really need to shut up now!"

"You're brave!" Anderson joked.

He went on to defend Season 8 saying he imagines it would be the perfect blend, but admitting they had only seen the first episode at the time.

Personally I think it's still good television, but not nearly as good as it was in previous seasons. I'm not on the edge of my seat anymore. Some of the reactions are over the top from people in my eyes but probably fueled by emotions.

I've no issue with the story they are trying to tell but it seems so much more rushed out and crammed this season. They have so many they're trying to give screentime to in such a short amount of time that it's having an effect on the impact of their characters in my eyes.

I understand the writers and actors want to move on, but it's a bit of a shame that they turned down HBO's offer to take more time telling the story. I don't feel like we're getting the slow stirring build up to things that we are used to.

Anyway, overall it's going down as my least favorite season, I'm going to be somewhat happy when it's over.

Adamocovic · 15-05-2019 9:25am

Varik wrote: »

Pretty disappointing.

Maybe when I binge the whole lot in a few years this season won't stick out as such from an otherwise great show.

Similar thing happened to me with Lost. (I know people will jump at me for this!)

I wasn't a big fan of the final season when watching it as they came out. A friend a couple of years back suggested I binged them again. He loved the entire thing.

After binging it I actually enjoyed the ending. I'm in the minority there but maybe you're right and when I binge GoT in the future the ending will be more enjoyable.

oppiuy · 15-05-2019 9:32am

Adamocovic wrote: »

Similar thing happened to me with Lost. (I know people will jump at me for this!)

I wasn't a big fan of the final season when watching it as they came out. A friend a couple of years back suggested I binged them again. He loved the entire thing.

After binging it I actually enjoyed the ending. I'm in the minority there but maybe you're right and when I binge GoT in the future the ending will be more enjoyable.

Did any of the stuff that happened in the show make sense after you watched it again? Like the others, polar bears, numbers , dharma project etc.

I could never look at that again, they made it up as they went along i reckon

Nody · 15-05-2019 9:34am

Penn wrote: »

Have to agree. Never saw why it was being so hyped up. It's also not like they hadn't seen each other since childhood. We repeatedly heard over the seasons how much The Hound hated his brother, yet he seemingly never cared about killing him even to where we saw them briefly fight in Season 1 and The Hound stopped fighting him when King Robert ordered him to. They had no interaction other than that until last season and all of a sudden it became The Hound's life mission to kill his brother.

I enjoyed their fight a lot and it was a good end for The Hound, but it got as much if not a little more time than it deserved and it really seems like one of those things that was added because the fans were hyping it up rather than being in any way vital to the story.

There was more to that relationship in the books that should have been told around the time of Joeffry/Sansa wedding in the story arc that would flesh out more who the Hound was and his hatred of his brother (and fire). However I guess it was cut simply because it was not seen as main story critical in similar ways we ended up with "bad pussy" parody of the snakes and Dorne in general being cut out of the story halfway through (while they in theory should have one of the largest armies around these days simply because they are about the only once who've not been fighting wars for the last couple of years).

15-05-2019 9:42am

It is clearly aimed at the Marvel generation. The show is all spectacle without form. For these people it matters not if it makes sense, or has plot, so long as something goes BOOM

Adamocovic · 15-05-2019 9:59am

oppiuy wrote: »

Did any of the stuff that happened in the show make sense after you watched it again? Like the others, polar bears, numbers , dharma project etc.

I could never look at that again, they made it up as they went along i reckon

I should bother spoiler tagging it but will anyway haha. It made more sense, or at least I convinced myself it did! Can't fully remember all as it was a couple of years back since last watching.

1. The others were people who followed Jacob on the island. He would bring them to the island.
2. Polar bears, just brought over by Dharma for testing.
3. Numbers. Each of the numbers corresponded to a person on the plane, someone Jacob felt was worthy to replace him as he feared his brother was going to murder him. There is a reason why each number corresponds to a certain person but I can't fully remember that.
4. Dharma Initiative was a scientific group who went to the island to perform tests and experiments to alter a prediction/equation that pointed towards the end of the world. Can't remember how they found the island however, think it was shown in flashbacks.

It wasn't everyone's cup of tea but I still enjoyed it, no matter how bizarre and farfetched it got.

Ave Sodalis · 15-05-2019 10:04am

I am so fed up with people whinging about it. Yes, the episodes have mistakes but all of my social media platforms are full of people complaining and it's really not that bad. Daenerys' psychotic break is entirely plausible (high risk due to having a father with it, even higher risk due to being a result of incest, higher again risk due to her age, and very high risk due to the extreme loss and stress she was under). There have been several psychologists with posts on reddit about how this is plausible.
The only thing odd about the last episode is the horse randomly being there, but my first thoughts weren't that the horse is off putting, it's that now people are gonna blow it way out of proportion and whine about it for weeks.
No matter what these guys did, no matter how they ended it, it would still leave a lot of people unhappy. I am getting very tired of people sucking the fun out of episodes because they have bombarded social media with their tantrums.

The_Honeybadger · 15-05-2019 10:05am

Adamocovic wrote: »

I should bother spoiler tagging it but will anyway haha. It made more sense, or at least I convinced myself it did! Can't fully remember all as it was a couple of years back since last watching.
1. The others were people who followed Jacob on the island. He would bring them to the island.
2. Polar bears, just brought over by Dharma for testing.
3. Numbers. Each of the numbers corresponded to a person on the plane, someone Jacob felt was worthy to replace him as he feared his brother was going to murder him. There is a reason why each number corresponds to a certain person but I can't fully remember that.
4. Dharma Initiative was a scientific group who went to the island to perform tests and experiments to alter a prediction/equation that pointed towards the end of the world. Can't remember how they found the island however, think it was shown in flashbacks.

It wasn't everyone's cup of tea but I still enjoyed it, no matter how bizarre and farfetched it got.

I’m one of the people that gave up on Lost during the last season. The plot just became so utterly daft I couldn’t bear another minute. I often thought of going back and watching it again as it was really good for a while but haven yet. Might give it another go at some stage soon

Adamocovic · 15-05-2019 10:14am

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I’m one of the people that gave up on Lost during the last season. The plot just became so utterly daft I couldn’t bear another minute. I often thought of going back and watching it again as it was really good for a while but haven yet. Might give it another go at some stage soon

Obviously different people will have different views but I was the same. Was hesitant to rewatch and took some convincing. For me at least I enjoyed it more, felt like a bit of closue, could close that ranting passage of my life. Or maybe acceptance :P

So even though I'm not enjoying this season of GoT as much, maybe if I binge it down the lines it will grow on me more.

grogi · 15-05-2019 10:17am

RiCriostoir wrote: »

I've seen a lot of complaints about it on Facebook, Twitter and Reddit. But personally I don't see anything wrong with Season 8, and feel as if the directors are doing a good job on it. It does feel a small bit rushed but the CGI is amazing.

What do yous think?

CGI is amazing.

But the story, the depth of characters, the dialogues are nowhere where it was at the beginning.

The writers did a great job of adapting the books to the screen, but when the books could not provide guidance anymore, they started to fail.

The_Honeybadger · 15-05-2019 10:21am

grogi wrote: »

CGI is amazing.

But the story, the depth of characters, the dialogues are nowhere where it was at the beginning.

The writers did a great job of adapting the books to the screen, but when the books could not provide guidance anymore, they started to fail.

I don’t really know much about how the writing has been done since they ran out of books. Has GRRM been providing a storyboard for them or are they going in their own direction does anybody know?

Penn · 15-05-2019 10:27am

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I’m one of the people that gave up on Lost during the last season. The plot just became so utterly daft I couldn’t bear another minute. I often thought of going back and watching it again as it was really good for a while but haven yet. Might give it another go at some stage soon

The problem with Lost's final season is that they had created so many mysteries throughout the show that so much hype built up around expecting answers that it became a thing where they felt like they had to answer as many of the mysteries as possible, even where the explanations were bland, confusing and pointless.

Lost became too much about the mysteries, but when you watch it more for the characters' individual stories and journeys, it's a lot more enjoyable. I actually never had an issue with the ending, and I'd still stand by it. A lot of it doesn't make sense, but again that's not the point. It's about the character's journeys.

Which (to bring it back to GoT) is I think why so many have an issue with Season 8. Character journeys are being somewhat sidelined in favour of big set pieces (eg. it turns out it was Arya's destiny to kill the Night King and she basically saves Westeros, yet it's practically never mentioned again and has had no discernible effect on her), fan-service (such as Cleganebowl) and rushing through huge changes in characters rather than giving them time to breathe and develop.

Sleepy · 15-05-2019 10:29am

loyatemu wrote: »

ugh, I really didn't care much about Cleganebowl - the rivalry between them was never properly fleshed out in the TV series (maybe it's different in the books), and what was covered was like 5 seasons ago.

Since the 2 brothers were "resurrected" from their respective deaths they've had very little to do and have only been kept around for their eventual clash.

In reference to the books, Cleganebowl was originally a very specific prediction about

Cersei's trial by the faith militant. While in the show Tommen outlaws trial by combat as a means o deciding this trial, none of this has happened yet in the books and as it's obvious that Cersei will opt for trial by combat with the Mountain as her champion.

The Hound, whose survival we've only seen hinted at in the books (living as a un-named novice in the Septry on the Quiet Isle), would be the obvious choice for the Faith Militant to use as their champion in this trial by combat.

A much more nuanced setup than the shows version of "I've always hated my brother but despite living in the same city as him for decades now that it's convenient for the showrunners my only purpose in life is to kill him".

Keyzer · 15-05-2019 10:33am

Very disappointing but the blame lies solely wtih the writers - the direction, visuals and acting (lets give the actors credit, they can only work with the material they are given) have been top notch.

Season 8 has been an absolute debacle from a writing perspective since EP1. Its like all logic, consistency and common sense was thrown out the window - examples:

EP4 - Rhaegal taken out by three shots from a giant crossbow on a boat, from miles away. Dany flee's for fear of losing her last dragon - she also didn't see Euron's fleet and apparently "forgot" about them.
EP4 - Cersei doesn't kill Dany and her last remaining dragon while they are in a stationary position outside KL - completely against Cersei's character but done to further the plot.
EP5 - Said crossbows are now completely useless and Dany destroys Euron and the Golden army within minutes - again, to further the plot. Consistency out the window.

Its like the two writers got bored, said lets wrap this up and move onto Star Wars and wrote any aul sh1te they could come up with with no regard for the previous material.

I'd love to see a questions and answers session with D&D where they respond to the criticism - and I mean really respond as in have the courage to be challenged on this. But, alas, this will never happen as they'll be busy writing the new Star Wars movies.

Ave Sodalis · 15-05-2019 11:16am

Keyzer wrote:

EP4 - Rhaegal taken out by three shots from a giant crossbow on a boat, from miles away. Dany flee's for fear of losing her last dragon - she also didn't see Euron's fleet and apparently "forgot" about them. EP4 - Cersei doesn't kill Dany and her last remaining dragon while they are in a stationary position outside KL - completely against Cersei's character but done to further the plot. EP5 - Said crossbows are now completely useless and Dany destroys Euron and the Golden army within minutes - again, to further the plot. Consistency out the window.

I'm not sure why people are struggling to see the difference between a prepared side long shot at an unsuspecting dragon, and an unprepared front facing shot into the sun at a fully aware and attacking dragon. With the golden company, were you really expecting her to blow the wall down on top of them from behind?

Cersei was still playing the "I'm the good guy in this, fighting off the invading savages and saving the city".

Penn · 15-05-2019 11:32am

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I'm not sure why people are struggling to see the difference between a prepared side long shot at an unsuspecting dragon, and an unprepared front facing shot into the sun at a fully aware and attacking dragon.

I can see the difference in that. What I can't see is why every other scorpion shot after that misses. The ships aren't all taken out in one shot, which means by the time Drogon swoops down and hits the first few ships, he no longer has the sun behind him, is a lot closer to them and has ships all around him in different directions which means it'd be nearly impossible to dodge all of them. We barely even see any of the arrows soaring past him as he flies around. There's even a sequence where he flies along the wall around Kings Landing and takes out maybe 8 scorpions in a line. There's no way one of them at the back shouldn't have been able to take a decent enough shot, but they don't even seem to fire.

I agree about how she used the sun to swoop down to attack the first few ships. However it's ludicrous that from what they showed us that no-one else was able to make a shot.

walshb · 15-05-2019 12:13pm

Visually it's nice in parts

But lacks any real drama, suspense, imagination, excitement, tension, charisma.

Same old same old for episode after episode after episode, right up until this season...

The characters are for the most part, awful.

Sleepy · 15-05-2019 12:15pm

TBH, the main issue was with the previous week. If we'd seen Rhaegal killed with a single hit from a volley of ballista fire (i.e. one shot fired by each ship in the fleet as the surprise attack) we could surmise an element of luck that helped them take it out. Instead we saw 3 laser guided hits on a moving, aerial target from a ship-mounted firing platform which made the scorpions look way more powerful than they should have been in the first place (and that's before we take account of the miraculous reloading rate Euron's crews were achieving).

Without the scene, and taking on board the lore that only once in the history of this world has a dragon been taken down in flight (and the destruction we saw writ large in the ruin of Harrenhal) Drogon's destruction of Kings Landing whilst easily avoiding the missiles fired at her from the ballista (which we should have seen at least getting off a few shots at her) would have made perfect sense.

Akrasia · 15-05-2019 1:09pm

Sleepy wrote: »

TBH, the main issue was with the previous week. If we'd seen Rhaegal killed with a single hit from a volley of ballista fire (i.e. one shot fired by each ship in the fleet as the surprise attack) we could surmise an element of luck that helped them take it out. Instead we saw 3 laser guided hits on a moving, aerial target from a ship-mounted firing platform which made the scorpions look way more powerful than they should have been in the first place (and that's before we take account of the miraculous reloading rate Euron's crews were achieving).

Without the scene, and taking on board the lore that only once in the history of this world has a dragon been taken down in flight (and the destruction we saw writ large in the ruin of Harrenhal) Drogon's destruction of Kings Landing whilst easily avoiding the missiles fired at her from the ballista (which we should have seen at least getting off a few shots at her) would have made perfect sense.

Yep. Killing Rhaegal in E04 was a terrible mistake. The point was to show Dani starting to lose her sanity as she loses her advisers and it's obvious that her people do not love her. But they could have shown this with the killing of Misandre and the scenes where she was rejected by the North and betrayed by her advisers. There was no need to kill that dragon in E04. It seems like they just stuck it in because they thought that the episode didn't have enough 'wow factor'

But the way they did it was so stupid, and it then fed into the ultimate 'breaking bad' moment also being stupid. Her being triggered by some bells? Seriously, How about have her getting triggered by watching her 'child' getting killed in front of her. If there were 2 dragons defeating Cersai's army and destroying her castle, it would have been more believable, and then if one of the last scorpions got a fatal blow on Rhaegal just as she thought she had won (perhaps if a civilian managed to help fire that scorpion, thereby showing that they were loyal to Cersai), she then lost her mind and killed the civillians.

It would have been satisfactory, it would have given her a more believable transition into the mad queen, and it would have provided a much better send off for Rhaegal.

Also
Euron didn't need to die fighting Jamie. It was stupid. He should have died on his ship, fighting the dragons. Give him another minute or two of him grazing a dragon with a scorpion or wounding but not killing one of the dragons. Have him do something reckless with one of the ships to sacrifice them for glory or some kind of trap or something.

Having his entire fleet wiped out in less than a minute (it seems) without even firing back (again it seemed only one or two scorpions were fired) only for him to somehow survive his ship exploding without even a scratch and then to randomly meet up with Jamie in a cave, on his own.. it was awful.

Jamie could have been wounded in any number of other plausible ways during the battle that could have developed his character. Was he fighting for or against the Lanisters, maybe he had to kill a soldier to get access to the castle, or a civilian....

I'm not saying these are the best possible ways the story could have gone. I am just saying that even I, as a nobody, can think of multiple better ways of handling these last few episodes that all arrive at exactly the same place but without the infuriatingly improbable and unbelievable plot devices that they used.

Brock Turnpike · 15-05-2019 1:13pm

The best season, of the best TV show, of all time.

Brock Turnpike · 15-05-2019 1:18pm

Akrasia wrote: »

Sleepy wrote: »

TBH, the main issue was with the previous week. If we'd seen Rhaegal killed with a single hit from a volley of ballista fire (i.e. one shot fired by each ship in the fleet as the surprise attack) we could surmise an element of luck that helped them take it out. Instead we saw 3 laser guided hits on a moving, aerial target from a ship-mounted firing platform which made the scorpions look way more powerful than they should have been in the first place (and that's before we take account of the miraculous reloading rate Euron's crews were achieving).

Without the scene, and taking on board the lore that only once in the history of this world has a dragon been taken down in flight (and the destruction we saw writ large in the ruin of Harrenhal) Drogon's destruction of Kings Landing whilst easily avoiding the missiles fired at her from the ballista (which we should have seen at least getting off a few shots at her) would have made perfect sense.

Yep. Killing Rhaegal in E04 was a terrible mistake. The point was to show Dani starting to lose her sanity as she loses her advisers and it's obvious that her people do not love her. But they could have shown this with the killing of Misandre and the scenes where she was rejected by the North and betrayed by her advisers. There was no need to kill that dragon in E04. It seems like they just stuck it in because they thought that the episode didn't have enough 'wow factor'

But the way they did it was so stupid, and it then fed into the ultimate 'breaking bad' moment also being stupid. Her being triggered by some bells? Seriously, How about have her getting triggered by watching her 'child' getting killed in front of her. If there were 2 dragons defeating Cersai's army and destroying her castle, it would have been more believable, and then if one of the last scorpions got a fatal blow on Rhaegal just as she thought she had won (perhaps if a civilian managed to help fire that scorpion, thereby showing that they were loyal to Cersai), she then lost her mind and killed the civillians.

It would have been satisfactory, it would have given her a more believable transition into the mad queen, and it would have provided a much better send off for Rhaegal.

Also
Euron didn't need to die fighting Jamie. It was stupid. He should have died on his ship, fighting the dragons. Give him another minute or two of him grazing a dragon with a scorpion or wounding but not killing one of the dragons. Have him do something reckless with one of the ships to sacrifice them for glory or some kind of trap or something.

Having his entire fleet wiped out in less than a minute (it seems) without even firing back (again it seemed only one or two scorpions were fired) only for him to somehow survive his ship exploding without even a scratch and then to randomly meet up with Jamie in a cave, on his own.. it was awful.

Jamie could have been wounded in any number of other plausible ways during the battle that could have developed his character. Was he fighting for or against the Lanisters, maybe he had to kill a soldier to get access to the castle, or a civilian....

I'm not saying these are the best possible ways the story could have gone. I am just saying that even I, as a nobody, can think of multiple better ways of handling these last few episodes that all arrive at exactly the same place but without the infuriatingly improbable and unbelievable plot devices that they used.

Who is Misandre?

gibgodsman · 15-05-2019 1:23pm

Looks nice, happy its finally back, but my god the writting and what they have done to the story is nothing short of dreadful, they might as well have said "See those past 7 seasons? Forget them, never happened, character development? HA! Here have some huge action scenes that make absolutely no sense"

SureYWouldntYa · 15-05-2019 1:33pm

I know a lot of people think the season isn't living up to expectations because the hype was just so big

It's bs though because Breaking Bad got better in its final season and more than lived up to the hype

How did other massive shows like the Sopranos live up in its final season? Is GOT the only one thats taken such a massive nonsensical drop

Dial Hard · 15-05-2019 1:39pm

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Who is Misandre?

It's either a typo or Melisandre and Missandei had a love-child we don't know about.

TerrorFirmer · 15-05-2019 1:48pm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

The only thing odd about the last episode is the horse randomly being there, but my first thoughts weren't that the horse is off putting, it's that now people are gonna blow it way out of proportion and whine about it for weeks.

Absolutely nowhere have I seen any sort of deal made about the horse.

People's valid criticism is with pacing, scripting, character development, rushed story arcs and inconsistencies which have crept in since S7 and become extremely prevalent in S8.

I don't understand why people seem to think there's some sort of global conspiracy against S8 based on hysteria - and I don't understand why people seem to believe it should be above criticism either.

If you enjoy it, great! I'm genuinely glad you are and I would never seek to tell you why you're wrong for enjoying it. I enjoy it too but far less than I should due to the serious flaws that I see. Most people who have issue with it still enjoy it to some extent.

People have put effort into detailing what's wrong with the last season or two compared to what came before it - but it's constantly getting dismissed as nitpicking, tantrums, whining, etc.

People are calling the show as they see it. It's hardly a coincidence that critical response to this season is the lowest of all 8 seasons, or that user scores are also the lowest in the franchise for certain episodes?

It doesn't mean people don't enjoy it to varying degrees and don't appreciate the vast spectacle on display and all the effort that went into producing it.

They just see that it's painting over some serious cracks in the foundation. A lot care. A lot don't. Both are valid opinions.

Breaking Bad was another huge show that critics and users rated extremely highly in its final season - because it was incredibly consistent right up until the end.

There is no conspiracy. S8 is just weak in the scripting department and over-reliant on huge CGI spectacle to compensate.

IAmTheReign · 15-05-2019 2:04pm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I'm not sure why people are struggling to see the difference between a prepared side long shot at an unsuspecting dragon, and an unprepared front facing shot into the sun at a fully aware and attacking dragon. With the golden company, were you really expecting her to blow the wall down on top of them from behind?

Cersei was still playing the "I'm the good guy in this, fighting off the invading savages and saving the city".

Personally I would have expected the Golden Company to be on the walls of the city they're supposed to be defending. Hard to defend a city when you're outside it. I don't think anyone was expecting dragon fire to blow down the wall on top of them though since the only reason Jon survived a few weeks ago was because he was hiding behind a wall when a dragon was blowing fire at him. Who needs consistency though when you have dragons and explosions right?

Ave Sodalis · 15-05-2019 2:18pm

Penn wrote:

I can see the difference in that. What I can't see is why every other scorpion shot after that misses. The ships aren't all taken out in one shot, which means by the time Drogon swoops down and hits the first few ships, he no longer has the sun behind him, is a lot closer to them and has ships all around him in different directions which means it'd be nearly impossible to dodge all of them. We barely even see any of the arrows soaring past him as he flies around. There's even a sequence where he flies along the wall around Kings Landing and takes out maybe 8 scorpions in a line. There's no way one of them at the back shouldn't have been able to take a decent enough shot, but they don't even seem to fire.

But unlike the first dragon, Drogon was actively avoiding them. In order to pierce the dragon, they need to be huge, which makes them easy for a dragon to track.

Even if they did get a shot off, if dragon fire can burn the scorpions, it can burn a missile when its burning the vicinity anyway.

Sleepy wrote:

TBH, the main issue was with the previous week. If we'd seen Rhaegal killed with a single hit from a volley of ballista fire (i.e. one shot fired by each ship in the fleet as the surprise attack) we could surmise an element of luck that helped them take it out. Instead we saw 3 laser guided hits on a moving, aerial target from a ship-mounted firing platform which made the scorpions look way more powerful than they should have been in the first place (and that's before we take account of the miraculous reloading rate Euron's crews were achieving).

Firing at a side long target that's moving at a regular speed on a set course is actually relatively simple.

ednwireland · 15-05-2019 2:19pm

rushed - i suspect they couldnt get the actors for any longer

Ave Sodalis · 15-05-2019 2:25pm

TerrorFirmer wrote:

Absolutely nowhere have I seen any sort of deal made about the horse.

No, but my point was that I wasn't worried about it, I was worried there was going to be endless complaining about it.

TerrorFirmer wrote:

People's valid criticism is with pacing, scripting, character development, rushed story arcs and inconsistencies which have crept in since S7 and become extremely prevalent in S8.
I don't understand why people seem to think there's some sort of global conspiracy against S8 based on hysteria - and I don't understand why people seem to believe it should be above criticism either.

I don't think it's above criticism at all, and that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is the silly, constant whinging that's absolutely everywhere is getting tiring. People complaining for the sake of complaining. For example, two Instagram pages I followed that had great content before are full on throwing their toys out of their prams and have had about 20 posts each of what could only be described as a melt down about the most ridiculous of things. The posts saying the pacing is off, or they simply didn't enjoy it, fine. It's the weird hysteria that people seem to having whipped themselves up into about it that I'm sick of seeing.

IAmTheReign · 15-05-2019 2:27pm

Sleepy wrote: »

TBH, the main issue was with the previous week. If we'd seen Rhaegal killed with a single hit from a volley of ballista fire (i.e. one shot fired by each ship in the fleet as the surprise attack) we could surmise an element of luck that helped them take it out. Instead we saw 3 laser guided hits on a moving, aerial target from a ship-mounted firing platform which made the scorpions look way more powerful than they should have been in the first place (and that's before we take account of the miraculous reloading rate Euron's crews were achieving).

Without the scene, and taking on board the lore that only once in the history of this world has a dragon been taken down in flight (and the destruction we saw writ large in the ruin of Harrenhal) Drogon's destruction of Kings Landing whilst easily avoiding the missiles fired at her from the ballista (which we should have seen at least getting off a few shots at her) would have made perfect sense.

This. That scene last week could so easily have been written better. Euron could have laid a trap for Dany by leaving the Iron Fleet in the open near Dragonstone. Dany, thinking she could take them out easily with the dragons, flies directly at them and into a volley of ballista fire which manages to catch one of the dragons. No need to have a huge fleet of ships be invisible from the air or rapid firing ballistas.

Honestly though how Rhaegal died wasn't even the worst part of that scene for me though. Why did Euron not attack the survivors on Dragonstone while they were disorganised? Why only take one prisoner? He could have crushed the only people still loyal to Dany right there.

Ave Sodalis · 15-05-2019 2:30pm

IAmTheReign wrote:

Personally I would have expected the Golden Company to be on the walls of the city they're supposed to be defending. Hard to defend a city when you're outside it. I don't think anyone was expecting dragon fire to blow down the wall on top of them though since the only reason Jon survived a few weeks ago was because he was hiding behind a wall when a dragon was blowing fire at him. Who needs consistency though when you have dragons and explosions right?

The first part is fair enough. The second, I just put down to the fact that one dragon was much stronger from the start, wasn't leaking fire out the side of their jaws, and didn't have a furiously crazy rider on it's back.

NIMAN · 15-05-2019 2:36pm

Casual watcher here, wouldn't call myself a fan by any means.

I didn't get into watching GOT until maybe 2 years ago, then watched it all from the start.

I enjoyed the earlier seasons, but found I was enjoying it less around maybe season 5 or early season 6. Got to the stage where I considered stopping watching. I stuck with it though as i had invested so much time in it.

Now last couple of nights I watched season 8 episodes 1 and 2. I think it's a major drop off in quality again, and although Ill persevere to the end as it's so close, if someone told me I couldn't watch any more, it wouldn't bother me in the least. And considering I have spent so many hours watching it to this point, that's a sad reflection that I could quit so easily.

When the hype was building over the last year, we were told each episode of season 8 would be like a feature film in terms of quality. They lied.

Penn · 15-05-2019 2:37pm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

But unlike the first dragon, Drogon was actively avoiding them. In order to pierce the dragon, they need to be huge, which makes them easy for a dragon to track.

Even if they did get a shot off, if dragon fire can burn the scorpions, it can burn a missile when its burning the vicinity anyway.

Again though, once Drogon swoops down for his first attack, you have about 50 ships there. Say he burns 5 with his first attack, he is then flying just above those ships (therefore the sun is no longer blinding everyone) and those ships are all spread out and at different angles to Drogon. Even if fewer than half of those ships tried to fire at Drogon at that point, you have 20 ships firing a shot at Drogon from different angles, at pretty close range considering Drogon has to be closer to the ships to burn them than they need to be to fire at him.

There should be no way to avoid all of those shots.

15-05-2019 2:38pm

What is annoying me about the pacing issues is that the show runners were offered more episodes to finish the show off and turned them down.

I've no real problem with the direction the story has gone, in terms of Dany anyway, but they could have gotten there a bit more elegantly, and with less collateral damage to other characters development if they had availed themselves of a bit more time to play with.

It's frustrating that a lot of the problems are self-inflicted by the show runners eagerness to wrap the show up.

kunst nugget · 15-05-2019 2:39pm

I've been very disappointed in season 8. I bought a new jar of hand cream and there's been no rape or incest all and I suspect there's going to be none in the last episode either. My callouses are going all soft and wrinkly.

grogi · 15-05-2019 2:40pm

Ward J. Littell wrote: »

It's frustrating that a lot of the problems are self-inflicted by the show runners eagerness to wrap the show up.

But Star Wars!

Ave Sodalis · 15-05-2019 2:44pm

Penn wrote:

Again though, once Drogon swoops down for his first attack, you have about 50 ships there. Say he burns 5 with his first attack, he is then flying just above those ships (therefore the sun is no longer blinding everyone) and those ships are all spread out and at different angles to Drogon. Even if fewer than half of those ships tried to fire at Drogon at that point, you have 20 ships firing a shot at Drogon from different angles, at pretty close range considering Drogon has to be closer to the ships to burn them than they need to be to fire at him.

Maybe, but a dragon of unknown course that is actively avoiding them, whilst attacking them, would still be very difficult to hit. Could they have hit him? Yes, absolutely. Is it reasonable that they missed? Also yes.

Or at least, from years of doing archery, that's what I'd expect.

15-05-2019 2:49pm

GRRM, several of the actors that have done interviews and a lot of fans are all disappointed.

Its just been too rushed and didn't do justice to the years spent building stories.

But they've got star wars to focus on.

kunst nugget · 15-05-2019 2:53pm

Lads, you're debating the flight patterns and potential attacking abilities of imaginary, flying lizards... it's a lovely day out there, get some sun.

MisterAnarchy · 15-05-2019 2:53pm

Sleepy wrote: »

TBH, the main issue was with the previous week. If we'd seen Rhaegal killed with a single hit from a volley of ballista fire (i.e. one shot fired by each ship in the fleet as the surprise attack) we could surmise an element of luck that helped them take it out. Instead we saw 3 laser guided hits on a moving, aerial target from a ship-mounted firing platform which made the scorpions look way more powerful than they should have been in the first place (and that's before we take account of the miraculous reloading rate Euron's crews were achieving).

This is a good article here by a medieval warfare expert in relation to the attack on Rhaegal and how ludicrous it was.
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/9/18538169/game-of-thrones-crossbows-explained-medieval-warfare

Euron and his forces take out Rhaegal with three hits from a considerable distance. How difficult would it be to hit a moving target from that distance? Is it even possible to do that given their resources?

No [laughs], that’s the short answer. Both cases, no. The ballisti that we know of, the larger ones—they might’ve had that distance, they certainly would not have had that accuracy. To be able to hit three [times], even on a large dragon, would’ve been rather difficult. Of course, at the same time, I’m not sure that anybody would ever fall for that type of an ambush if they had dragons to be out scouting, which they would certainly think knowing they were facing a navy from the enemy side.

There’s a lot of problems with history with that whole thing. I think that was one of the first times I felt really cheated by Game of Thrones—to have such a mediocre defensive stunt pulled and not seen by the people who are supposed to be superior military intellects. I was not entirely thrilled with that whole part of that episode, and the large crossbows taking out the dragon like that. They wouldn’t have had the ballistic power, they wouldn’t have had the aim. It’s hard to aim a crossbow and it would’ve been hard aiming a large ballista like that, certainly because the shot would have to be so powerfully delivered that with the kickback you couldn’t really judge where the crossbow bolt would end up.

And even in the lore of George R.R. Martin’s books, dragon’s skin is likened to steel, and the only time something like that kills a dragon is when one is pierced in the eye. That’s a one-in-a-million shot, too.

Honestly, what do you think about Season 8? Mod warning post #1/#410

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