Honestly, what do you think about Season 8? Mod warning post #1/#410

Ave Sodalis

IAmTheReign wrote:

Personally I would have expected the Golden Company to be on the walls of the city they're supposed to be defending. Hard to defend a city when you're outside it. I don't think anyone was expecting dragon fire to blow down the wall on top of them though since the only reason Jon survived a few weeks ago was because he was hiding behind a wall when a dragon was blowing fire at him. Who needs consistency though when you have dragons and explosions right?

The first part is fair enough. The second, I just put down to the fact that one dragon was much stronger from the start, wasn't leaking fire out the side of their jaws, and didn't have a furiously crazy rider on it's back.

NIMAN

Casual watcher here, wouldn't call myself a fan by any means.

I didn't get into watching GOT until maybe 2 years ago, then watched it all from the start.

I enjoyed the earlier seasons, but found I was enjoying it less around maybe season 5 or early season 6. Got to the stage where I considered stopping watching. I stuck with it though as i had invested so much time in it.

Now last couple of nights I watched season 8 episodes 1 and 2. I think it's a major drop off in quality again, and although Ill persevere to the end as it's so close, if someone told me I couldn't watch any more, it wouldn't bother me in the least. And considering I have spent so many hours watching it to this point, that's a sad reflection that I could quit so easily.

When the hype was building over the last year, we were told each episode of season 8 would be like a feature film in terms of quality. They lied.

Penn

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

But unlike the first dragon, Drogon was actively avoiding them. In order to pierce the dragon, they need to be huge, which makes them easy for a dragon to track.

Even if they did get a shot off, if dragon fire can burn the scorpions, it can burn a missile when its burning the vicinity anyway.

Again though, once Drogon swoops down for his first attack, you have about 50 ships there. Say he burns 5 with his first attack, he is then flying just above those ships (therefore the sun is no longer blinding everyone) and those ships are all spread out and at different angles to Drogon. Even if fewer than half of those ships tried to fire at Drogon at that point, you have 20 ships firing a shot at Drogon from different angles, at pretty close range considering Drogon has to be closer to the ships to burn them than they need to be to fire at him.

There should be no way to avoid all of those shots.

What is annoying me about the pacing issues is that the show runners were offered more episodes to finish the show off and turned them down.

I've no real problem with the direction the story has gone, in terms of Dany anyway, but they could have gotten there a bit more elegantly, and with less collateral damage to other characters development if they had availed themselves of a bit more time to play with.

It's frustrating that a lot of the problems are self-inflicted by the show runners eagerness to wrap the show up.

kunst nugget

I've been very disappointed in season 8. I bought a new jar of hand cream and there's been no rape or incest all and I suspect there's going to be none in the last episode either. My callouses are going all soft and wrinkly.

grogi

Ward J. Littell wrote: »

It's frustrating that a lot of the problems are self-inflicted by the show runners eagerness to wrap the show up.

But Star Wars!

Ave Sodalis

Penn wrote:

Again though, once Drogon swoops down for his first attack, you have about 50 ships there. Say he burns 5 with his first attack, he is then flying just above those ships (therefore the sun is no longer blinding everyone) and those ships are all spread out and at different angles to Drogon. Even if fewer than half of those ships tried to fire at Drogon at that point, you have 20 ships firing a shot at Drogon from different angles, at pretty close range considering Drogon has to be closer to the ships to burn them than they need to be to fire at him.

Maybe, but a dragon of unknown course that is actively avoiding them, whilst attacking them, would still be very difficult to hit. Could they have hit him? Yes, absolutely. Is it reasonable that they missed? Also yes.

Or at least, from years of doing archery, that's what I'd expect.

GRRM, several of the actors that have done interviews and a lot of fans are all disappointed.

Its just been too rushed and didn't do justice to the years spent building stories.

But they've got star wars to focus on.

kunst nugget

Lads, you're debating the flight patterns and potential attacking abilities of imaginary, flying lizards... it's a lovely day out there, get some sun.

MisterAnarchy

Sleepy wrote: »

TBH, the main issue was with the previous week. If we'd seen Rhaegal killed with a single hit from a volley of ballista fire (i.e. one shot fired by each ship in the fleet as the surprise attack) we could surmise an element of luck that helped them take it out. Instead we saw 3 laser guided hits on a moving, aerial target from a ship-mounted firing platform which made the scorpions look way more powerful than they should have been in the first place (and that's before we take account of the miraculous reloading rate Euron's crews were achieving).

This is a good article here by a medieval warfare expert in relation to the attack on Rhaegal and how ludicrous it was.
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/9/18538169/game-of-thrones-crossbows-explained-medieval-warfare

Euron and his forces take out Rhaegal with three hits from a considerable distance. How difficult would it be to hit a moving target from that distance? Is it even possible to do that given their resources?

No [laughs], that’s the short answer. Both cases, no. The ballisti that we know of, the larger ones—they might’ve had that distance, they certainly would not have had that accuracy. To be able to hit three [times], even on a large dragon, would’ve been rather difficult. Of course, at the same time, I’m not sure that anybody would ever fall for that type of an ambush if they had dragons to be out scouting, which they would certainly think knowing they were facing a navy from the enemy side.

There’s a lot of problems with history with that whole thing. I think that was one of the first times I felt really cheated by Game of Thrones—to have such a mediocre defensive stunt pulled and not seen by the people who are supposed to be superior military intellects. I was not entirely thrilled with that whole part of that episode, and the large crossbows taking out the dragon like that. They wouldn’t have had the ballistic power, they wouldn’t have had the aim. It’s hard to aim a crossbow and it would’ve been hard aiming a large ballista like that, certainly because the shot would have to be so powerfully delivered that with the kickback you couldn’t really judge where the crossbow bolt would end up.

And even in the lore of George R.R. Martin’s books, dragon’s skin is likened to steel, and the only time something like that kills a dragon is when one is pierced in the eye. That’s a one-in-a-million shot, too.

twinytwo

They built jon and the nightking up over years.. nothing.. jon spends nearly all of season 8 standing around doing nothing.

Kinda just write jamie off, his death was lame.

Any sort of military tactical knowledge gone out the window.

Bron who?

IAmTheReign

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

No, but my point was that I wasn't worried about it, I was worried there was going to be endless complaining about it.


I don't think it's above criticism at all, and that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is the silly, constant whinging that's absolutely everywhere is getting tiring. People complaining for the sake of complaining. For example, two Instagram pages I followed that had great content before are full on throwing their toys out of their prams and have had about 20 posts each of what could only be described as a melt down about the most ridiculous of things. The posts saying the pacing is off, or they simply didn't enjoy it, fine. It's the weird hysteria that people seem to having whipped themselves up into about it that I'm sick of seeing.

But do you not think that if the same people who used to do great content about the show are now complaining about it there might be a reason for it? There's been so many plot holes and inconsistencies with characters this season I can't just ignore them.

Why is Tyrion so stupid and naive now? Why can't Varys keep a secret anymore? Why did Jamie do a complete u turn and go back to Cersei? Why did the Night King really want to kill Bran? And why use Bran to trap the Night King if they didn't have a plan to kill him when he got there? Why keep women and children in a crypt when you know your enemy can raise the dead? Why would Dany decide to kill civilians when for 8 seasons shes done the exact opposite? Why did the lord of light bring Jon back if he wasn't needed to kill the Night King?

All of these things could have been explained (except putting women and children in the crypt, I mean really?) with some decent character development and a proper plot but the whole season has been so rushed and disjointed none of it makes sense. And knowing that HBO were willing to let the show run and end it right but the showrunners said no really annoys me.

Mickeroo

kunst nugget wrote: »

Lads, you're debating the flight patterns and potential attacking abilities of imaginary, flying lizards... it's a lovely day out there, get some sun.

That sounds like something someone who doesn't know the average airspeed velocity of an unladen African dragon would say.

TerrorFirmer

In fairness I think some of those are a matter of opinion rather than just being plain daft. Out of those points, the Cersei and Jaime arc made perfect sense to me; Jon was brought back by the Lord of Light because he was crucial to actually bonding the grand alliance that defeated the Night King.

Tyrion being reduced from the smartest man in Westeros to a bumbling idiot shackled with wooden dialogue and Vary's being his little-better idiot sidekick for several seasons is a perfect example though.

tayto lover

Thought this weeks episode was very poor. It seems rushed and had too many easy endings for many characters. It was a big let down for me.

IAmTheReign

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

In fairness I think some of those are a matter of opinion rather than just being plain daft. Out of those points, the Cersei and Jaime arc made perfect sense to me; Jon was brought back by the Lord of Light because he was crucial to actually bonding the grand alliance that defeated the Night King.

Tyrion being reduced from the smartest man in Westeros to a bumbling idiot shackled with wooden dialogue and Vary's being his little-better idiot sidekick for several seasons is a perfect example though.

Jamie running back to Cersei for me didn't make any sense given Jamies arc. All the character development for him to revert back to type felt like a lazy end to his character. His line about never caring about the people after killing the mad king to save them? Come on. And for Jon I would assume that's why he was brought back, but my point is the way it went we're left guessing. That's lazy writing.

kunst nugget

Mickeroo wrote: »

That sounds like something someone who doesn't know the average airspeed velocity of an unladen African dragon would say.

Hello?!? These dragons are from Westeros! Totally different universe. Westeros has an average windspeed 3.2mph as opposed to 9.7mph in Africa. And that's before we get into weight differentials between African dragons and their Westeros counterparts...

If you could see how I'm mockingly shaking my head at the screen, whilst my hand cream jar forms a lair of dust on its unopened lid due to the lack of riding in this season, you would wither.

Doctors room ghost

Brian? wrote: »

I gave up half way through episode 5. 8 years of character development binned to make a spectacular battle.

You did better then me.i gave up when they killed ned stark.

TerrorFirmer

IAmTheReign wrote: »

Jamie running back to Cersei for me didn't make any sense given Jamies arc. All the character development for him to revert back to type felt like a lazy end to his character. His line about never caring about the people after killing the mad king to save them? Come on.

I've already posted here as to why I think Cersei and Jaime makes sense and is a realistic ending though I can see why it's not satisfying to some.

As for that line, I think it's open well enough to interpretation as to not be too baffling.

He could be referring to the fact that he received nothing but hate and disdain from the very people he saved by slaying the mad king.

Maybe he genuinely never cared much for 'the people' but still had a moral compass and knew stopping the mad king was the only thing to do.

Or maybe....he was just making a light hearted remark to Tyrion in a dark moment.

I think it's ambiguous enough as to not actually damage his character in any way.

Also I don't think they needed to spell out the Jon thing. He clearly had to live to unite the wildings, northern forces and Daenerys in the grand alliance necessary to defeat the Night King.

No Jon = Night King sweeping through Westeros without any unified, serious opposition.

Akrasia

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Who is Misandre?

Yer one who grey worm is in love with, however you spell her name

katie275

Way too rushed but still great tv.

Fair play to Lena Headey for earning $1million per episode for standing at a window drinking a glass of wine!!

Tired Gardener

Season 8, really should have been two seasons. What we have got is rushed and forced into 6 episodes where they have to fit the TV formula. The pacing is all out of whack because of this. If each of the story arcs in season 8 had one season to flesh out what is going on and how it impacts on the characters it would be more palatable. The pacing is causing the characters to do some dubious actions all in order to serve the plot.

There is now very little consequences to bad decisions, for example, Sam stealing his family's valeryian steel sword... that had zero negative impact upon him, that is a break from the thread that GoT/ASoIaF has taught is is part of its narrative. Actions have consequences... now it is all about the spectacle.

It is a hot mess, but it is what it is, and we should at least be thankful that we got a good show that breaks from the usual crap that is produced.

Breaking Bad is still safe with having the best ending in a TV show.

Gulliver

What really rustles my jimmies is that on every single forum, someone comes up with a more realistic descent into mass-murderer for Danny that could have been achieved in the same episode timeframe.

Why didn't the writers?

That aside, Danny was always a nasty person, wiling to kill to prove her point. People shouldn't have been shocked when she eventually showed her true face, but it felt so rushed.

I was so worried that she was going to do a 180 and become a Disney Princess because of her relationship with Jon, so at least they stayed true to her character when she throws a fit because he won't do the nasty with her.

Brock Turnpike

Akrasia wrote: »

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Who is Misandre?

Yer one who grey worm is in love with, however you spell her name

Well that's just lazy writing.

Weepsie

It's pretty bad to be honest. Season 7 was not great, but had it's moments. It's gone a bit Michael Bay or Disney as people have said. They've brought back violence/sex etc for the sake of it, rather than to aid the story. Everything is rushed. There's a load of fan service and some really painful bits where they reach back to something, however vague from a previous season, and say it's foreshadowing. It's a lazy way to avoid building plot and character.

Remember how Tyrion defended nights landing, or how Ramsay out maneuvered Jon et al? Gone are the slow, steady plans, plotting and intrigue.

The acting has become a bit hammier too.

eviltimeban

Have enjoyed all of it so far! The night time battle and the Bells destruction orgy have been highlights so far.

daheadonu

Gulliver wrote:

That aside, Danny was always a nasty person, wiling to kill to prove her point. People shouldn't have been shocked when she eventually showed her true face, but it felt so rushed.

Gulliver wrote:

What really rustles my jimmies is that on every single forum, someone comes up with a more realistic descent into mass-murderer for Danny that could have been achieved in the same episode timeframe.

Danny's dragon should have been killed when the bells were tolling rather than for nothing in the previous episode.It would have lent more weight to her homicidal rage and mental break.

is_that_so

Weepsie wrote: »

It's pretty bad to be honest. Season 7 was not great, but had it's moments. It's gone a bit Michael Bay or Disney as people have said. They've brought back violence/sex etc for the sake of it, rather than to aid the story. Everything is rushed. There's a load of fan service and some really painful bits where they reach back to something, however vague from a previous season, and say it's foreshadowing. It's a lazy way to avoid building plot and character.

Remember how Tyrion defended nights landing, or how Ramsay out maneuvered Jon et al? Gone are the slow, steady plans, plotting and intrigue.

The acting has become a bit hammier too.

They can only do it as well as the script allows!

Mousewar

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I've already posted here

Also I don't think they needed to spell out the Jon thing. He clearly had to live to unite the wildings, northern forces and Daenerys in the grand alliance necessary to defeat the Night King.

No Jon = Night King sweeping through Westeros without any unified, serious opposition.

Meh, Ned could have have done that. Or Robb. Or anybody half decent. If a show is going to have a character resurrected by a god for some divine purpose that purpose better be very clear and singularly crucial. Killing the NK fits the bill perfectly but they decided to give that to someone else.

Agree with your Cersei and Jaime points though. Perfect ending for him. He did become a better person but the show never once even hinted at him not loving her. Despite everything she was he loved her and wanted to be with her. It made sense, it was a fitting ending for him.

Overall, the main problem with season 8 is that it was rushed. GoT was always a series that took its time and let its characters breathe and develop. That way, their decisions and their actions were totally believable. This season, they've effectively condensed several seasons worth of development into a few episodes and it shows.

Martin originally planned to write a trilogy of books but he's ended up looking at 7 (long) books. Why? Because he lets his characters breathe and develop. He knows the ending but he's not going to force his characters there. They have to go themselves and they'll take as long as they want. If Martin wants Jon and Danaerys to go north of the wall he's going to have to wait until they choose to go there for a valid reason - he's not going to just make them go there for no reason at all like Weiss and Beinhoff did. He respects the characters he has created and won't force them to do things they wouldn't do themselves. It's a shame the showrunners didn't have the same respect and patience because everything else - the set pieces, the visuals, the directing are excellent.

Tikki Wang Wang

But the elephants? What about the elephants? What would and could they have done? Sadly we will never know.....