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Honestly, what do you think about Season 8? Mod warning post #1/#410

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 786 ✭✭✭no.8


    loyatemu wrote:
    similarly they could have had Jon sit on the throne after offing Dany and wait for Drogon to come and finish him off.

    loyatemu wrote:
    that would have been great.

    loyatemu wrote:
    Drogon could also have brought Dany north of the wall to have her ressurected as the Night Queen.


    That's not cheesy at all lol.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    glasso wrote: »
    You'd be in the minority on that one.

    Really?

    I have never spoke to a single person who liked it.
    glasso wrote: »
    Bit of reaction at the time about the very last scene but as time goes on that restaurant scene at the end is seen as clever.

    Not by me it's not, it's seen as a "we have no idea how to end this and want to keep our options open"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Sopranos had run it's course by the finale and the ending was quite good I thought. Some people were put out of the abrupt nature of the end scene, but as a final season, and a final episode in itself, it remained perfectly decent, and was widely received as same to be fair.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭ionapaul


    Also thought the Sopranos ending was very good - agree that most people feel this way now.

    Not a chance there will be the same consideration given to the GoT finale in years to come! The first six seasons were so enjoyable and smart, even with the gratuitous nudity, violence and fantasy (all of which I also enjoyed! You just rarely get the latter at the same time as clever, engaging and thought-provoking), the last two seasons were such a let down :( Still full of spectacle and some excitement, just totally lacking in any sophistication and such a jarring change from the earlier episodes.

    Bit of a pity, when you think about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    GOT ended like the ending of a romantic movie might, with characters riding/sailing into the sunset etc. Very timid after all that went before. As for Bran, I don't know what he was about - throughout the film - great potential but never delivered.


  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    how they managed to create such emptiness at supposedly key moments in the final season was bewildering.


  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Really?

    I have never spoke to a single person who liked it.



    Not by me it's not, it's seen as a "we have no idea how to end this and want to keep our options open"

    well that's your day made now isn't it ! - at least 3 people who like the ending of the Sopranos and you've never heard from the 1 before.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    worst last seasons GOT or BSG?

    it has to be BSG


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,198 ✭✭✭PressRun


    Sopranos had run it's course by the finale and the ending was quite good I thought. Some people were put out of the abrupt nature of the end scene, but as a final season, and a final episode in itself, it remained perfectly decent, and was widely received as same to be fair.


    As I said in another thread, The Sopranos ending has aged well and the series in general is aging well. A lot of people were disappointed with the ending at the time as I think some people were expecting to see Tony go out in some blaze of glory, but it would never have worked and the rewatch value of the series is better for having not tried it. An ending involving Tony face down in a bowl of spaghetti or some such just wouldn't have been the right tone for the finale. Just my opinion. I watched it again recently and it still looks and sounds very slick, and the fact that the finale didn't try to do too much actually works well in its favour. David Chase should never have had to defend his choice there. It was completely the right thing to do and stayed true to what the show was about.

    Comparatively, I don't see GoT holding up as well, and I think the two boys will regret not giving it more time and attention, as it's something they'll be remembered for.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    glasso wrote: »
    well that's your day made now isn't it ! - at least 3 people who like the ending of the Sopranos and you've never heard from the 1 before.

    Just confirms my worst suspicions - the internet is a weirdo magnet:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,956 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    worst last seasons GOT or BSG?

    it has to be BSG

    Both were poor enough but BSG was slightly better in my opinion.

    Its interesting what George R.R. Martin had to say about the BSG finale
    "Battlestar Galactica ends with 'God Did It.' Looks like somebody skipped Writing 101, when you learn that a deus ex machina is a crappy way to end a story. Yeah, yeah, sometimes the journey is its own reward. I certainly enjoyed much of the journey with BSG. But damn it, doesn't anybody know how to write an ending any more? Writing 101, kids.

    Is he saying that now about the GOT Finale I wonder ?
    We shouldnt be surprised I guess all this has happened before, and all this will happen again.:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Diceicle


    They should have had the GOT ending with young Bran waking up in his bedroom in the modern era and it was all a dream......


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I dunno why people keep saying it got all LOTR like that was a bad thing..
    The Lord of the rings trilogy was quality..
    It was a different thing. It would never be as gritty as GOT..
    LOTR was way better than this pile of sh1te ended up being..


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Before the last episode I was thinking 'I don't know they could make it any worse'.. And then I saw a spoiler..,Bran on the fncking throne.. That was the one way they could make it worse..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Diceicle


    valoren wrote: »
    It was perhaps a victim of it's own success. The earlier seasons before it became a pop culture phenomenon were wrought with dialogue, plotting and characterization. It didn't have the enormous budget the latter seasons enjoyed. I guess if you give someone a hammer (big productions costs) then all they will see is nails (big set pieces, spectacles, style over substance) while losing focus on the writing which actually gave them the 'hammer' subsequently with each seasons spectacle becoming inversely proportional to the quality of the dialogue, plotting and characterization.

    I was thinking something similar earlier - after GOT peaked or broke into the mainstream there could be pressure or a tendency to dilute some of the grittier plots - the harder edged scenes. Keep the mass appeal going. Make it more blockbuster entertainment than medieval grit-fest.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 stmargarets4


    Terrible. Simple as that.
    CGI Terrible
    Acting Terrible
    Dialogue Terrible
    The list goes on

    Too rushed, too little thought put into it - just a disappointing end to what could have been a great series. It could of held it's own against the like of Sopranos and the wire but unfortunately it doesn't come close.

    Some great episodes and series along the but all ruined, in my eyes, by the final 6 episodes.

    I'm glad its over - the inevitable spin off's can F right off.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Really?

    I have never spoke to a single person who liked it.



    Not by me it's not, it's seen as a "we have no idea how to end this and want to keep our options open"

    I loved the ending of the Sopranos. It was perfect.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    I dunno why people keep saying it got all LOTR like that was a bad thing.
    Back in season 4 GOT was way better than LOR because of its complexity but it ended up becoming simplistic good v evil in the end just like LOR. The writers just let everyone down


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Back in season 4 GOT was way better than LOR because of its complexity but it ended up becoming simplistic good v evil in the end just like LOR. The writers just let everyone down

    That and it became much more quest driven, worst example team beyond the wall zombie hunt


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Back in season 4 GOT was way better than LOR because of its complexity but it ended up becoming simplistic good v evil in the end just like LOR. The writers just let everyone down

    Yeah, but LOTR was different..it was going for a more archetypal fairy tale thing..he was actually trying to create a mythology..It was written what 80 years ago too..
    And when those movies came out they were epic as f*ck..
    And GOT would never have existed without LOTR..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭Fian


    not my line - from the irish times:
    Martin McBennett
    The season was dark and full of errors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Like everyone I was disappointed with how it ended because I wanted it to end differently.
    Thing is it kept you guessing all through.
    I can see how it ended like it did and I accept the ending and how it played out.
    For a lot of people they seemed to want it as complicated at the end as it was all along and that was impossible to do.
    It's the greatest show in the history of tv imo. I'll always recommend it to people and I'll never forget it.
    I never rewatch tv shows but I think I'll watch this again in a couple of years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭dusty bin


    Think I'm in the minority here. But I enjoyed it.

    Going back to Season 1, the starks were always the good guys and I am happy that they now have a king beyond the wall, queen in the north and king in the six kingdoms. Also, arya to be queen of the seas. (sorry yara). The kids Ned reared have all done well.

    Thank you GOT for the 73 episodes. I've enjoyed every minute. Sad its now over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    worst last seasons GOT or BSG?

    it has to be BSG

    I'd say GOT for all reasons people have offered. BSG had some cracking episodes in the last season, although the show and characters had nowhere to go and they'd already brought in that history repeating itself theme. The ending was a naff and a bit long but after a few rewatches it's actually not a completely unsatisfactory observation of their need to start over but God thing is just silly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,947 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Whole thing was a waste of time. Height of rubbish

    Lot of ppl know this but won’t admit it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Feel this season will stand up better for people who binge watch it straight after the others. No matter what they did with the last few seasons it was always going to seem rushed compared to the GRRM material, but by limiting the time lag between episodes and seasons it will allow character arcs and storylines to flow better and not seem as rushed as we found it watching along.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭youreadthat


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Feel this season will stand up better for people who binge watch it straight after the others. No matter what they did with the last few seasons it was always going to seem rushed compared to the GRRM material, but by limiting the time lag between episodes and seasons it will allow character arcs and storylines to flow better and not seem as rushed as we found it watching along.

    They don't even flow well within the individual episodes, even if you binge watch you'll notice what took 30 episodes to set up now takes 2. Imagine telling someone in season 4 that they'll tie up the White Walkers and NK in a single episode and Cersi would be alive but do nothing for the final season, even though it's only 6 episodes long! You'd assume the ratings tanked and the money ran out or something.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Lone Stone


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Feel this season will stand up better for people who binge watch it straight after the others. No matter what they did with the last few seasons it was always going to seem rushed compared to the GRRM material, but by limiting the time lag between episodes and seasons it will allow character arcs and storylines to flow better and not seem as rushed as we found it watching along.

    I binged it on the lead up to the final season and i think it made it worse :(
    Show really needed 2 more seasons to get it where it ended. Shame to see my favorite show/book just end us as some badly written gibberish.

    Even my mother in her 60's down there in on the second last episode now and she was like why would danny do that, this makes no sense ! :confused:
    Like for example i think it took like 3 seasons ? for the boltons to be that bat **** crazy and danny was basically goes nuts in 2 episodes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    I was willing to forgive a lot of the issues with the season up until last week, but last night's episode sent me over the edge. Just a terrible ending. They would've been better off cutting to black after Arya killed the night king


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Blinky Plebum


    It was too rushed.

    The visuals were great the night king episode was really good but the story was far too rushed.Good spectacle at times but poor storytelling.

    In reality they should have had a 2 part season of around 8 -10 1 hour episodes in each. Part 1 should have been building up the Night king and the battle at Winterfell and Part 2 should have been the battle between Cersei and Danaerys ,

    They should have allowed more time for character development and scheming.

    Don't know why they rushed it so much as it seems like HBO were happy for more episodes to be made so clearly it seems like a selfish decision on behalf of the producers to just want to get rid of the show once and for all which is really a dreadful thing to do to what is one of the greatest television shows of all time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭OptimusTractor


    If the writers were arsed at all there was at least 3 seasons of content left. Even at 6 episodes.

    Season 8: The War with the White Walkers.

    Season 9: Dany's conquering of Westeros.

    Season 10: The inevitable civil war when other Houses realise Queen Dee takes after the rest of her family and join with Sansa.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,956 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Don't know why they rushed it so much as it seems like HBO were happy for more episodes to be made so clearly it seems like a selfish decision on behalf of the producers to just want to get rid of the show once and for all which is really a dreadful thing to do to what is one of the greatest television shows of all time.

    Its a crying shame what the writers did ,producing such atrocious scripts.
    What they produced wouldn't make it past an early first draft not to mind get filmed.

    It was a real smack in the face to everyone else on the crew who did absolutely trojan work.
    The set builders,the stunt team ,the CGI crew etc.

    Ramin Djawadi did a phenomenal job scoring the season and the actors gave it their best too but they simply couldn't turn a pigs ear into silk.

    A very sad final two seasons to what was previously a superb show .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    They don't even flow well within the individual episodes, even if you binge watch you'll notice what took 30 episodes to set up now takes 2. Imagine telling someone in season 4 that they'll tie up the White Walkers and NK in a single episode and Cersi would be alive but do nothing for the final season, even though it's only 6 episodes long! You'd assume the ratings tanked and the money ran out or something.

    You could assume that or that the original writer tied himself in knots by slowly over expanding the narrative in a way that could never be closed out at the same pace and the showrunners had to try to clean up his mess. They did a decent job of cutting out a lot of the unneeded fat but more should have been done and the pace increased eariler, though that was difficult in itself as I doubt they told that GRRM would produce so little over the period of the show.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Lone Stone wrote: »
    I binged it on the lead up to the final season and i think it made it worse :(
    Show really needed 2 more seasons to get it where it ended. Shame to see my favorite show/book just end us as some badly written gibberish.

    Even my mother in her 60's down there in on the second last episode now and she was like why would danny do that, this makes no sense ! :confused:
    Like for example i think it took like 3 seasons ? for the boltons to be that bat **** crazy and danny was basically goes nuts in 2 episodes.

    Binged it for the first time or repeat viewing? I think the latter will be helpful in the future, along with watching the final season with the right expectations and outside the echo chamber of complaints.

    They could have gone on for another 5 seasons and people wouldn’t have complained. Given how sidetracked the showrunners got last season it probably wouldn't have helped too much getting to an ending that everyone was happy with.

    I'm not sure what you're talking about with the Boltons, Ramsey was cutting off parts of Theon from the point we met him and Roose was never truly crazy, just ruthless in getting what he wanted. I don’t want to get into another circular argument of the Dany character arc, you think it was over 2 episodes whereas I see the development clearly building since season 1.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,532 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    If the writers were arsed at all there was at least 3 seasons of content left. Even at 6 episodes.

    Season 8: The War with the White Walkers.

    Season 9: Dany's conquering of Westeros.

    Season 10: The inevitable civil war when other Houses realise Queen Dee takes after the rest of her family and join with Sansa.

    The show has been on a downward spiral over the last 3 seasons, the last thing it needed was more seasons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Blinky Plebum


    The show has been on a downward spiral over the last 3 seasons, the last thing it needed was more seasons.

    The first 4 seasons are defintely better than the final 4 but Season 8 is miles off all the other seasons.Season 5 for example is the first season where it takes a backward step but it's much much better than season 8 as it stuck to the Ten 1 hour episode (with maybe 1 extra long episode) formula which was working so well.

    I haven't read the books but it seems like the first 4 seasons just follow George RR Martin's novels and then they have to start doing some work themselves for the remainder of the show so it looks now that the writers weren't really the reason for the success of the show it was George RR Martin combined with the brilliant production values and direction.


    I think I'll read the books in a few years time (if the are ever finished), I kind of regreat not reading them now.

    I wonder if this season might eventually be more appreciated in a few years time once it gets detached from the negative reaction it's gotten so far.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,367 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    It's telling that the best two episodes of Season 8 (Episodes 1 and 2) were written by Dave Hill (Winterfell) and Bryan Cogman (A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms) whilst the last 4 were all written by Benioff & Weiss.

    One can only wish that they'd been fired and Cogman asked to finish out the series. Even within the 6 episodes, I think he'd have managed a better job of it.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Episodes 1-3 were sh1te too..it was just that it was still too cognitively dissonant for a lot of people to accept GOT had gone to sh1t..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Feel this season will stand up better for people who binge watch it straight after the others. No matter what they did with the last few seasons it was always going to seem rushed compared to the GRRM material, but by limiting the time lag between episodes and seasons it will allow character arcs and storylines to flow better and not seem as rushed as we found it watching along.

    That, actually, is a very good observation. While I still believe that season 7 wasn't great (But not bad either) and season 8 was mainly down to pacing (Apart from the last episode which, to me, was very poor, toothless and unsatisfactory), for someone who has not read the books or seen the series, it will probably hold up a lot better.

    They will notice a serious dip in risk-taking and change in tone but a binger will watch all 78 (79?) episodes in about 3 weeks. They won't be as invested in the series as someone who has waited 8 years to be disappointed or a bajillion plus years for the books to finish.

    They will see it for what it is: escapist fun. And, come on folks, that's really what it was.

    It has upped the ante on what you can do on a TV series. Action sequences in the last two seasons especially were like something out of a major movie. The battle between Jaime's wagon train and the Dothraki and Drogon last season would have been the main setpiece for a HUGE movie only a couple of years ago.

    I don't think it is sustainable though. Bigger and more expensive does have its risks and may not always be rewarded. I am concerned about BBC/HBO's His Dark Materials adaptations. I LOVE the books and think they will do a good job. But I am worries that people will think it's another GoT, find out it isn't and then ratings will plummet and we will not get the last season and risky shows will be deemed too risky


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah it won't..I binge watched it all before this season.. very obvious drop in quality started season 6..7 was brutal too..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,627 ✭✭✭tedpan


    When's season 9 out..???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    tedpan wrote: »
    When's season 9 out..???

    Not for a while. They have to reshoot the entire eight season first...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭killanena


    I have watched game of thrones sense the first series was released. I don't believe season 8 is terrible but it was flawed. Some decisions the writers made make no sense, like the tactics used at the battle for Winterfell or Ayra being the one who killed the night king.. I always had the idea that Jon and Dany would face him down together in an epic fight and Ayra would finish her list off with Cersei.

    But I always had a feeling that Dany would end up being the bad guy once she arrived in Westeros. She always took it upon herself to choose what was right or just and never considered other culture or beliefs. The people she loved and kept close kept her grounded, you can see this time and time again throughout all the seasons where they talk her down from doing something horrible. Once her closest friends had died or betrayed her there was nothing holding her back anymore.

    S08E05 is in the top 10 episodes of the show in my opinion.

    Edit: I forgot to even mention the last episode lol. I'm still processing it, I am thankful they tied up the loose ends but the whole episode felt so rushed, more so then the rest of the season. They should have made it 2 hours at least. Instead of jumping forward in time after Jon kills Dany they should of shown how Jon was captured and the trail / negotiations about what to do with him.
    If they had only just flushed it out a bit more I would be more satisfied with the ending.


  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The whole final season was just completely emotionless.

    Why not build the relationship with Dany and Jon more?

    Why not add a scene with Dany confiding all of her insecurities to Ser Jorah? Talk to him about being insecure that Jon is more loved than her, that he has a claim to the throne, that she is heartbroken that he no longer wants to be with her.

    Why not add a scene of Dany bonding with Missandei and her telling Dany that she is going to move away with Greyworm when the war is done.

    These are the kind of the details that are necessary to make us really feel a characters pain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    killanena wrote: »
    Instead of jumping forward in time after Jon kills Dany they should of shown how Jon was captured and the trail / negotiations about what to do with him.
    If they had only just flushed it out a bit more I would be more satisfied with the ending.

    Impossible to show this because in what world would Greyworm not have killed Jon on the spot or at least tried to kill him?

    They actually missed an opportunity for a good fight scene between those two. I'd have had Jon talking to Dany with Greyworm present. It would become heated and Greyworm would step in. Decent fight between them as Dany watches on. Jon eventually wins and then advances on Dany, still conflicted, still unsure but ultimately resolved. Dany's fear would have been a more interesting visual than that ridiculous smooch they had before Jon cowardly gutted her.

    This is the problem though when fans start suggesting alternatives or ways to do it better. There's not a single alternative I ever considered up to season 7 because the show was gospel. Everything that happened made sense and felt real. You didn't question it - it was just what happened, part of a greater story that is being slowly revealed to you. Almost as if you were watching a documentary. But as soon as they went on that ludicrous mission north of the wall, all reason went out the window and the characters were exposed as mere tools of the writers to get what they want. It's no longer gospel - just what the writers decided when they might as easily have decided something else. So we start thinking of other things they might have done and it no longer feels real anymore.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭killanena


    Mousewar wrote:
    Impossible to show this because in what world would Greyworm not have killed Jon on the spot or at least tried to kill him?

    I do agree a fight scene between these two would have been very welcomed. But Grayworm is a smart man, not a brute and has a good grasp of his emotions considering. I'd imagine he would put the lives his men above his desire to revenge his queen. The norths army was still present don't forget and the dothraki may have chosen to follow John as he defeated their khaleesi (I don't know if killing a khaleesi is the same as killing a khal).


    Alternatively, Jon could have left the scene before Greyworm even knew what happened. He had orders from Dany to enforce with his men so he must have been busy.

    Everyone is going to have there own opinion on what should have happened here but I think we can all agree that jumping forward in time with no context to what happened to Jon doesn't do us or the show justice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭Wailin


    Jesus lads the amount of wannabe script writers in this thread lol. It's actually amazing seeing some of the bile spouted by some posters on here, a few at it constantly. Have ye no lives to live? It's only a tv show ffs!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    Wailin wrote: »
    Jesus lads the amount of wannabe script writers in this thread lol. It's actually amazing seeing some of the bile spouted by some posters on here, a few at it constantly. Have ye no lives to live? It's only a tv show ffs!

    Perhaps a different thread might suit you so? You seem to have misunderstood the concept of a discussion board.


  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wailin wrote: »
    Jesus lads the amount of wannabe script writers in this thread lol. It's actually amazing seeing some of the bile spouted by some posters on here, a few at it constantly. Have ye no lives to live? It's only a tv show ffs!

    You sound like my wife telling me that "Its only a game" when I watch football and my team concedes a goal to lose the game in the 93rd minute. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,596 ✭✭✭threein99


    Wailin wrote: »
    Jesus lads the amount of wannabe script writers in this thread lol. It's actually amazing seeing some of the bile spouted by some posters on here, a few at it constantly. Have ye no lives to live? It's only a tv show ffs!

    What does that say about you if you're reading it all ?


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