emigration

dxhound2005 · 25-05-2021 10:54pm

Timmyr wrote: »

Good point, once you hit 30 youre not getting into NZ unless you are highly skilled in a profession that is on the long term skills shortage list

Without researching it I expect they are the same as us and other developed countries. Young immigrants are needed to do the jobs the locals won't do. An aspect of the last wave of emigration from here was that about 65% of those leaving had jobs here. And with it being a global recession they were going to countries with high unemployment, to compete with the locals for scarce jobs.

pgj2015 · 25-05-2021 10:56pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Ireland is one of the 10 best places in the world to live, i tried living abroad and hated it. If you think Ireland is a kip then you dont know what a kip actually is.

It is amazing really how far we have come. From being such a poor country to one of the best to live in the world with such high standards of living. I will never get my head around Irish people who despise their own country.

PommieBast · 25-05-2021 10:58pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

And who said the UK are right? maybe we are the smart ones when it comes to covid plans. its not like they dealt with covid so brilliantly.

It is down to the UK's last chance saloon bet on vaccines. If it turns out right I can get on with my life 3-6 months earlier than if I stayed in Dublin. If that bet turns out wrong then pretty much everywhere is screwed.

branie2 · 25-05-2021 10:59pm

No plans to emigrate at the moment

I see sheep · 25-05-2021 11:04pm

I'm planning to move back to Ireland actually. Housing might be a complete mess, but I can get a nice pint at least. Swings & roundabouts...

dxhound2005 · 25-05-2021 11:06pm

I see sheep wrote: »

I'm planning to move back to Ireland actually. Housing might be a complete mess, but I can get a nice pint at least. Swings & roundabouts...

I think housing is probably much the same everywhere. Big cities very expensive. Other places cheaper.

https://www.daft.ie/property-for-sale/longford/houses

Timmyr · 25-05-2021 11:07pm

I see sheep wrote: »

I'm planning to move back to Ireland actually. Housing might be a complete mess, but I can get a nice pint at least. Swings & roundabouts...

Can you? arent pubs closed?

Not taking the piss im genuinely asking

One of the good things about being in NZ during covid is having pubs open and a normal lifestyle

I see sheep · 25-05-2021 11:10pm

Timmyr wrote: »

Can you? arent pubs closed?

Not taking the piss im genuinely asking

One of the good things about being in NZ during covid is having pubs open and a normal lifestyle

I won't be moving tomorrow like, but maybe in the next year.
I'm in the UK so yeah things are all open here, they will be soon in Ireland soon too.

I see sheep · 25-05-2021 11:13pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think housing is probably much the same everywhere. Big cities very expensive. Other places cheaper.

https://www.daft.ie/property-for-sale/longford/houses

Yeah I've no interest in living in a city in Ireland, but the lack of rental properties available is a bit mad. Having said that there does seem to be some decent deals in the countryside.

mobileforest · 25-05-2021 11:22pm

Exceltrup wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite! Average house prices are as follows:
NZ: $800,000
Canada: $716,000
Ireland: $407,000 (CAD) $467,000 (NZD)

716,000? Just googled it. You got that from a Cbc article. Don’t forget Toronto and Vancouver, both horribly expensive, skew the price to the right. Many other nice places in Canada are much cheaper. Have a look here https://www.livingin-canada.com/house-prices-canada.html

Purple is a Fruit · 25-05-2021 11:27pm

People who call it a kip and a sh1t-hole really have no perspective whatsoever - and seem a little spoiled, ungrateful and ignorant.

There are countless people globally who:

- Have no access to clean water
- Are witness to huge infant/child mortality rates
- Have a ludicrously low life expectancy
- Have no, or virtually no, access to education
- Have no access to technology - still farming with a donkey
- Will be sent to prison, tortured or killed for speaking out against their government
- Have no, or virtually no, access to healthcare - and exposure to potentially deadly diseases
- Have no access to birth control
- Have state supports when out of work/wanting to go back to education? Hah!
- Live where religious fanaticism is still alive and well and must not dare question it, and could be victims of violence due to it
- Haven't a hope of work other than the odd few crumbs here and there
- Have barely any food/live in unimaginable poverty and squalor
- Are living in war zones
- Are displaced from their homes
- Live in suffocatingly overcrowded cities with stress everywhere
- Are afraid for their lives due to the crime (Irish cities do not even feature in the top 50 for crime I'm afraid)
- Live in societies where women or certain castes are treated as sub human
- Face a much higher risk of trafficking
- Live under off the scale corruption (bless if you think anything here comes close)

Ireland would be absolute heaven to them.

And obviously Ireland isn't perfect. Accommodation is a mess. And there shouldn't be any corruption. But as someone else said, another issue is the relentless whining.

Strumms · 25-05-2021 11:35pm

I agree with Purple there.

In addition, what is wrong with the country, we should look to better, to fix. To say well the above countries are worse and you’d be less safe, less well off etc....ok, but we need to remain focused on eradicating our issues, improving every facet of living here. Relentlessly.

If we eradicate waiting lists for heart transplants to two weeks even, do we stop there or say, let’s try make it one week... always be better, always look to be the best you can be.

Purple is a Fruit · 25-05-2021 11:39pm

Strumms wrote: »

I agree with Purple there.

In addition, what is wrong with the country, we should look to better, to fix. To say well the above countries are worse and you’d be less safe, less well off etc....ok, but we need to remain focused on eradicating our issues, improving every facet of living here. Relentlessly.

If we eradicate waiting lists for heart transplants to two weeks even, do we stop there or say, let’s try make it one week... always be better, always look to be the best you can be.

And the moaners never seem to suggest what to do to improve things.

And yeah I'm not saying other places being worse makes problems here acceptable - I just can't stand the lack of perspective.

Hamachi · 25-05-2021 11:49pm

Purple is a Fruit wrote: »

And the moaners never seem to suggest what to do to improve things.

And yeah I'm not saying other places being worse makes problems here acceptable - I just can't stand the lack of perspective.

100%.

OP, it’s relatively easy to emigrate these days. Do your research, choose a country where you skill set is valued, secure your visa, book your ticket and go. There’s no need to start a thread denigrating Ireland.

One thing emigration does produce is a sense of perspective. You’ll quickly realize that no country is utopia and that Ireland, despite its flaws, is a relatively nice place to live.

It’s not productive to whine incessantly about this country. It’s also slightly depressing for those of us who are committed to making this country a better place. So please make your plans to emigrate and execute on them. I’m sure your family and close friends will miss you. The other 7 million or so people on this island - well it won’t be creating a void in our lives.

25-05-2021 11:58pm

Purple is a Fruit wrote: »

And the moaners never seem to suggest what to do to improve things.

And yeah I'm not saying other places being worse makes problems here acceptable - I just can't stand the lack of perspective.

It's nearly a religious devotion for certain types of people, always has been always will be. Given we have posters who live in Spain for example who divide their time on here moaning about living there, stuff going on here and a host of other topics.

Strumms · 25-05-2021 11:59pm

Not productive to whine.. but very productive to maintain a discussion, if positive, critical or a mixture of both.

irishguitarlad · 26-05-2021 6:56am

Probably not a good place to put this op as the majority of the posters on boards are late 30s plus and are all part of the green jersey brigade. I recommend continental Europe Op and not a capital city or second city. You will never be rich but you will have a very high standard of living plus if you miss the folks you can always hop on a plane to see them.

Thelonious Monk · 26-05-2021 10:14am

Auckland has massive problems with housing, and the rest of NZ. Same in Melbourne, Sydney, Vancouver, London etc. Basically anywhere Irish people seem to aspire to move to when things get sh*t here have similar problems. Rock and a hard place.

26-05-2021 10:49am

I think some people are lacking true perspective about moving abroad.

First off, regarding Ireland being a kip. It's not. However, if you end up living in somewhere like Thurles, then it's easy for your bubble of reality to shrink to a very small population, with few options for enjoyment, and limited scope for advancement in work. Whereas, if you move to Dublin, you have far more options, and any failure to appreciate them, is completely on you. I lived in Dublin for two years, after college, and I didn't like it. That was on me, but as a young person with little experience, I didn't have the balanced perspective to recognise that. I've been back a few times since and had a very different experience. In general terms, Ireland is a great country, although comparatively speaking, it's an expensive country.

I moved to Asia immediately after the Banking crash. Lived in Oz, and then, a variety of other Asian countries. When I lived in small cities, or the countryside, I experienced the same problems I had in Thurles, limited options. When I lived in cities of 9 million people or more, there was far greater options, and I enjoyed the experience more.

But I think people have to consider what work they do, and how that factors into things. I majored in Business/Finance, and most of my roles were connected to Credit Control, which is very much language based. So, I was mostly limited to English speaking countries, so I shifted roles to Management consulting, which was far more in demand in other nations. That shift also presented me with access to more levels of interaction with others, giving me the chance to see more levels of those cultures... whereas when I did credit control, even as a manager, I wasn't being introduced to the more prestigious or wealthier spheres of people.

The point being that when it comes to moving abroad, it shouldn't simply be the case of picking a destination. Consideration should be done regarding your career, and what you want from it, since that will affect your exposure to other cultures. Also, it's worth considering just how interested you are in developing your social life? Are you going to spend your free time getting stoned, and playing computer games? or are you going to be active, putting yourself out there, making friends, and pushing your own development?

I love living abroad. I have grown to appreciate Ireland due to my experiences living abroad, but I have little desire to live full-time here. However, at some point, practicalities kick in. Do you plan on leaving Ireland forever? Will you be contributing to a State pension, in addition to your own pension? Considering that it takes over twenty years for one to become eligible for the state pension, are you going to return to Ireland with enough time to avail of it, or are you going to find an alternative way to look after your retirement age?

I would highly recommend to everyone to live a few years abroad. Explore other cultures. Live in some major cities, like Berlin, or Tokyo. See what it's like in other places, and experience other cultures... but... don't skimp on being practical too. Make some realistic plans about your career development, do your research on financing, and pensions.. It's very easy to suddenly look back and realise that you've been a decade abroad, (and while it was fun), but then understand you've done little beyond paying your expenses.

mariaalice · 26-05-2021 10:53am

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Probably not a good place to put this op as the majority of the posters on boards are late 30s plus and are all part of the green jersey brigade. I recommend continental Europe Op and not a capital city or second city. You will never be rich but you will have a very high standard of living plus if you miss the folks you can always hop on a plane to see them.

But that is not what people want you could go to Waterford or Limerick for that.

If they work in the media, music, performance, IT, anything finance or legal they want a capital city with all the cool stuff and more importantly, all the career opportunities minus the high rents and housing costs.

It's a bit of fantasy.

mariaalice · 26-05-2021 10:59am

Just for fun, look at the prices of property in silicon valley.

The 2018 median home price in Silicon Valley was $1.18 million, anywhere people want to live because of the opportunities are always expensive.

irishguitarlad · 26-05-2021 11:38am

mariaalice wrote: »

But that is not what people want you could go to Waterford or Limerick for that.

If they work in the media, music, performance, IT, anything finance or legal they want a capital city with all the cool stuff and more importantly, all the career opportunities minus the high rents and housing costs.

It's a bit of fantasy.

So you are comparing Seville, Valencia, Málaga, Lyon, Toulouse, Nice, Munich, Cologne, Frankfurt to Waterford and Limerick? and also saying that there is no work in said cities in the areas you have mentioned and no cool stuff to do?I haven't even mentioned Belgium, Holland or Italy either and the cities outside their top 2.

mariaalice · 26-05-2021 11:43am

irishguitarlad wrote: »

So you are comparing Seville, Valencia, Málaga, Lyon, Toulouse, Nice, Munich, Cologne, Frankfurt to Waterford and Limerick? and also saying that there is no work in said cities in the areas you have mentioned and no cool stuff to do?I haven't even mentioned Belgium, Holland or Italy either and the cities outside their top 2.

I am sure they are all lovely with lots of employment but that not what it's about for most, they want the career type of employment that you get in capital cities or large cities in the US. Canada, Australia and NZ. There is also the language issue.

whisky_galore · 26-05-2021 11:44am

mariaalice wrote: »

I am sure they are all lovely but that not what it's about for most, they want the career type of employment that you get in capital cities or large cities in the US. Canada, Australia and NZ. There is also the language issue.

How ever do non Anglophones manage in Ireland?
Just get off your arse and learn the language!

irishguitarlad · 26-05-2021 11:48am

mariaalice wrote: »

I am sure they are all lovely with lots of employment but that not what it's about for most, they want the career type of employment that you get in capital cities or large cities in the US. Canada, Australia and NZ. There is also the language issue.

Language issue can be overcome but I get what you're saying, Irish people in general when they emigrate are very tunnel visioned in their choices.

26-05-2021 11:53am

CageWager wrote: »

Anyone under the age of 35 who is single with no kids is crazy to stay in Ireland. Hard to see anything going in the right direction - rising cost of living with stagnant wages.

I recommend people get more creative with their choice of destination than the usual Oz/NZ/Canada thing. Lots of fabulous countries in Asia and Latin America where you can have an excellent standard of living.

Thats happening worldwide at the moment. Your going to struggle to find a country as soft as Ireland. Best of luck.

theteal · 26-05-2021 12:38pm

I'm kind of hoping to move back at some point. . .

Thelonious Monk · 26-05-2021 12:45pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

How ever do non Anglophones manage in Ireland?
Just get off your arse and learn the language!

It's kind of a different ball game, everyone wants to learn English in other countries and have been doing so since they were children and Anglophone culture is popular worldwide. It's also the international language.
I have been learning Spanish for years now and am at a decent level but I would still need full immersion to get totally comfortable.

Also Valencia, Seville, Porto etc are lovely places but people don't go there not only because of the language, but because there are few employment opportunities and unemployment is usually a lot higher than Ireland.

Thelonious Monk · 26-05-2021 12:53pm

Is this a thing in other similar sized countries? Like in Finland do people start going on about emigrating any time there are housing and jobs issues? Or is it just kind of an Irish tradition to leave when the going gets tough?

Strumms · 26-05-2021 12:56pm

A language isn’t difficult to learn for many people ...it’s a little time consuming however and you need to put in the work, the hours...

In years gone by you had to rely on a book and a teacher / tutor.

Now you’d ‘probably’ need neither as pretty much all is done online...

irishguitarlad · 26-05-2021 12:56pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's kind of a different ball game, everyone wants to learn English in other countries and have been doing so since they were children and Anglophone culture is popular worldwide. It's also the international language.
I have been learning Spanish for years now and am at a decent level but I would still need full immersion to get totally comfortable.

Also Valencia, Seville, Porto etc are lovely places but people don't go there not only because of the language, but because there are few employment opportunities and unemployment is usually a lot higher than Ireland.

And what about cities in Germany,Holland,Belgium and France? Lots of employment there no?

26-05-2021 12:59pm

I take it many of the pro emigration posters have never actually lived and worked abroad?

We have it pretty good here. Not the best, but far from the worst. Well paid job opportunities in abundance, nice climate and scenery to boot. Lots of culture on our doorstep.

Now if only we sorted out public transport, insurance and the rental market we could be a top class country!!!

Thelonious Monk · 26-05-2021 12:59pm

irishguitarlad wrote: »

And what about cities in Germany,Holland,Belgium and France? Lots of employment there no?

I would imagine there's some alright but not much of it accessible to your typical Irish person. I mean I couldn't go to Lyon or Arnhem and expect to find anything beyond menial work because of the language and my CV, I would imagine most are in the same boat.

Tell me how · 26-05-2021 12:59pm

BenDover2020 wrote: »

It's a relatively safe country, i'll give you that but it's by no means " not a bad country to live in" It's a kip, but a safe kip

You've lived a very sheltered life if you think Ireland can be categorized as a kip on the international scale.

irelandrover · 26-05-2021 1:04pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I would imagine there's some alright but not much of it accessible to your typical Irish person. I mean I couldn't go to Lyon or Arnhem and expect to find anything beyond menial work because of the language and my CV, I would imagine most are in the same boat.

You could definitely go to Arnhem and get work beyond menial work without speaking Dutch. Healthcare is about the only profession in the Netherlands that is closed off if you don't speak dutch.

Thelonious Monk · 26-05-2021 1:09pm

irelandrover wrote: »

You could definitely go to Arnhem and get work beyond menial work without speaking Dutch. Healthcare is about the only profession in the Netherlands that is closed off if you don't speak dutch.

Arnhem is a bridge too far for me

irelandrover · 26-05-2021 1:10pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Arnhem is a bridge too far for me

I really hope hope that your original post was just to set that up. Fair play.

Witchie · 26-05-2021 3:16pm

Just landed myself a job in Malaysia so I can get back to Kuala Lumpur in the next month or so. I have lived there for almost 4 years and miss it like mad.

While my wage is crap by Irish standards it's more than enough to live comfortably there.

Planning on getting a condo like this in this building, across the road from the Petronas Towers for about €400 a month with rooftop pool etc. Sky Suites

Been back in Ireland since November and don't think can take much more. Such a rip off for everything.

And Malaysia is 4th best country for expats according to Internations.

dxhound2005 · 26-05-2021 3:20pm

That looks better than this:

https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/183847/view/polluted-river-running-through-a-malaysian-slum

I see Greater KL has a population of 8 million. It would not suit those who think Ireland is overcrowded with 5 million.

Purple is a Fruit · 26-05-2021 4:22pm

Mekhi Tender Arch wrote: »

I take it many of the pro emigration posters have never actually lived and worked abroad?

We have it pretty good here. Not the best, but far from the worst. Well paid job opportunities in abundance, nice climate and scenery to boot. Lots of culture on our doorstep.

Now if only we sorted out public transport, insurance and the rental market we could be a top class country!!!

The climate isn't extreme but it's awful. If I could do what I wanted, I'd go to southern California from early January until April/May. Happy to be in Ireland the rest of the time (I like wintry weather from Halloween to Christmas).

Nothing wrong imo with people wanting to live abroad - temporarily or permanently - just the nonsense notions people have of this country.

listermint · 26-05-2021 4:28pm

CageWager wrote: »

Anyone under the age of 35 who is single with no kids is crazy to stay in Ireland. Hard to see anything going in the right direction - rising cost of living with stagnant wages.

I recommend people get more creative with their choice of destination than the usual Oz/NZ/Canada thing. Lots of fabulous countries in Asia and Latin America where you can have an excellent standard of living.

Stagnant wages ???

All the statistics disagree with your headline.

Canyon86 · 26-05-2021 5:42pm

I'm looking at transferring to an internal job abroad possibly Switzerland or US for a year or two

The past year or so of lockdowns has given me the itch to explore the world more

Long term I would see myself in Ireland

CageWager · 26-05-2021 8:02pm

listermint wrote: »

Stagnant wages ???

All the statistics disagree with your headline.

The ESRI must have their facts wrong

"A combination of stagnant wages and higher housing costs have left young workers in Ireland financially worse off than their parents, according to a study (May 2021) by the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI)."

"The study found there has been “widespread stagnation in earnings growth” since the 2008 financial crisis, with average earnings for those born in the 1980s no higher from age 25 to 35 than for those born in the 1970s."

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/stagnant-wages-and-expensive-housing-leave-young-people-in-ireland-worse-off-than-parents-1.4560760

ILoveYourVibes · 26-05-2021 8:09pm

I wouldn't consider going outside of the EU. Not unless you already have your visa set up and a proper job. I know far too many in limbo stuck in a catch 22 situation. They are there legally but on temporary visas. They can't get proper jobs without residency ...but they can't get residency without getting nominated by the province (canada) which is hard without a decent job.

PeggyShippen · 26-05-2021 8:49pm

Hamachi wrote: »

100%.

OP, it’s relatively easy to emigrate these days. Do your research, choose a country where you skill set is valued, secure your visa, book your ticket and go. There’s no need to start a thread denigrating Ireland.

One thing emigration does produce is a sense of perspective. You’ll quickly realize that no country is utopia and that Ireland, despite its flaws, is a relatively nice place to live.

It’s not productive to whine incessantly about this country. It’s also slightly depressing for those of us who are committed to making this country a better place. So please make your plans to emigrate and execute on them. I’m sure your family and close friends will miss you. The other 7 million or so people on this island - well it won’t be creating a void in our lives.

First time iv seen someone use the population of Northern Ireland and Ireland together to make a point about life in Ireland. Isn't N.I. part of the UK and a totally different country.

PeggyShippen · 26-05-2021 8:55pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Arnhem is a bridge too far for me

You could always try 'Market Gardening'....

26-05-2021 8:56pm

PeggyShippen wrote: »

First time iv seen someone use the population of Northern Ireland and Ireland together to make a point about life in Ireland. Isn't N.I. part of the UK and a totally different country.

He said Island. Not Ireland. Perhaps read again the post, and consider why he used different paragraphs/lines.

PeggyShippen · 26-05-2021 8:59pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He said Island. Not Ireland. Perhaps read again the post, and consider why he used different paragraphs/lines.

I know he said Island...I get what he said. Its just more of this creepy push for Unification. 10 years ago people wouldnt have dreamt of saying the population of the whole Island to make a point about living in Ireland. Wait until the Unioniosts get forced into a united Ireland and a bombing campaign starts. We ll have cheap housing then..

Wanderer78 · 26-05-2021 9:05pm

BenDover2020 wrote:

So, when all this is over and the country is on its knees (again) and we're expected to pay higher taxes and save the day (again) and with no real chance of owning our own home due to Gov policy from the last time. what are peoples plans?

Government ideologies are starting to fail dramatically, its very likely the government will fall quicker than expected, there's also no need for the higher taxes at all, all these issues are resolvable with new thinking, we re just waiting for ffg to move on, to get cracking on it, so hang tough

Hamachi · 26-05-2021 9:45pm

PeggyShippen wrote: »

I know he said Island...I get what he said. Its just more of this creepy push for Unification. 10 years ago people wouldnt have dreamt of saying the population of the whole Island to make a point about living in Ireland. Wait until the Unioniosts get forced into a united Ireland and a bombing campaign starts. We ll have cheap housing then..

Lol you’re reading way too much into a throwaway comment. The standard of living is pretty similar across the entire island, hence the 7 million comment.

Hate to disappoint you, but I don’t have a sinister plan to force assimilate unwilling unionists..

emigration

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