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emigration

BenDover2020

So, when all this is over and the country is on its knees (again) and we're expected to pay higher taxes and save the day (again) and with no real chance of owning our own home due to Gov policy from the last time. what are peoples plans?

For me it just feels like there is nothing for us here now due to complete miss management and a horrible unlevel playing field with all the news of the vulture funds recently. This country is rotten to the core and it will only get worse. My options are probably Canada or New Zealand as I have some friends over there from the last mass emigration.

So what are everyones plans?

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Purple is a Fruit

People who call it a kip and a sh1t-hole really have no perspective whatsoever - and seem a little spoiled, ungrateful and ignorant.

There are countless people globally who:

- Have no access to clean water
- Are witness to huge infant/child mortality rates
- Have a ludicrously low life expectancy
- Have no, or virtually no, access to education
- Have no access to technology - still farming with a donkey
- Will be sent to prison, tortured or killed for speaking out against their government
- Have no, or virtually no, access to healthcare - and exposure to potentially deadly diseases
- Have no access to birth control
- Have state supports when out of work/wanting to go back to education? Hah!
- Live where religious fanaticism is still alive and well and must not dare question it, and could be victims of violence due to it
- Haven't a hope of work other than the odd few crumbs here and there
- Have barely any food/live in unimaginable poverty and squalor
- Are living in war zones
- Are displaced from their homes
- Live in suffocatingly overcrowded cities with stress everywhere
- Are afraid for their lives due to the crime (Irish cities do not even feature in the top 50 for crime I'm afraid)
- Live in societies where women or certain castes are treated as sub human
- Face a much higher risk of trafficking
- Live under off the scale corruption (bless if you think anything here comes close)

Ireland would be absolute heaven to them.

And obviously Ireland isn't perfect. Accommodation is a mess. And there shouldn't be any corruption. But as someone else said, another issue is the relentless whining.

Strumms

I agree with Purple there.

In addition, what is wrong with the country, we should look to better, to fix. To say well the above countries are worse and you’d be less safe, less well off etc....ok, but we need to remain focused on eradicating our issues, improving every facet of living here. Relentlessly.

If we eradicate waiting lists for heart transplants to two weeks even, do we stop there or say, let’s try make it one week... always be better, always look to be the best you can be.

Purple is a Fruit

Strumms wrote: »

I agree with Purple there.

In addition, what is wrong with the country, we should look to better, to fix. To say well the above countries are worse and you’d be less safe, less well off etc....ok, but we need to remain focused on eradicating our issues, improving every facet of living here. Relentlessly.

If we eradicate waiting lists for heart transplants to two weeks even, do we stop there or say, let’s try make it one week... always be better, always look to be the best you can be.

And the moaners never seem to suggest what to do to improve things.

And yeah I'm not saying other places being worse makes problems here acceptable - I just can't stand the lack of perspective.

[Deleted User]

Purple is a Fruit wrote: »

And the moaners never seem to suggest what to do to improve things.

And yeah I'm not saying other places being worse makes problems here acceptable - I just can't stand the lack of perspective.

100%.

OP, it’s relatively easy to emigrate these days. Do your research, choose a country where you skill set is valued, secure your visa, book your ticket and go. There’s no need to start a thread denigrating Ireland.

One thing emigration does produce is a sense of perspective. You’ll quickly realize that no country is utopia and that Ireland, despite its flaws, is a relatively nice place to live.

It’s not productive to whine incessantly about this country. It’s also slightly depressing for those of us who are committed to making this country a better place. So please make your plans to emigrate and execute on them. I’m sure your family and close friends will miss you. The other 7 million or so people on this island - well it won’t be creating a void in our lives.

[Deleted User]

Purple is a Fruit wrote: »

And the moaners never seem to suggest what to do to improve things.

And yeah I'm not saying other places being worse makes problems here acceptable - I just can't stand the lack of perspective.

It's nearly a religious devotion for certain types of people, always has been always will be. Given we have posters who live in Spain for example who divide their time on here moaning about living there, stuff going on here and a host of other topics.

Strumms

Not productive to whine.. but very productive to maintain a discussion, if positive, critical or a mixture of both.

irishguitarlad

Probably not a good place to put this op as the majority of the posters on boards are late 30s plus and are all part of the green jersey brigade. I recommend continental Europe Op and not a capital city or second city. You will never be rich but you will have a very high standard of living plus if you miss the folks you can always hop on a plane to see them.

Thelonious Monk

Auckland has massive problems with housing, and the rest of NZ. Same in Melbourne, Sydney, Vancouver, London etc. Basically anywhere Irish people seem to aspire to move to when things get sh*t here have similar problems. Rock and a hard place.

[Deleted User]

I think some people are lacking true perspective about moving abroad.

First off, regarding Ireland being a kip. It's not. However, if you end up living in somewhere like Thurles, then it's easy for your bubble of reality to shrink to a very small population, with few options for enjoyment, and limited scope for advancement in work. Whereas, if you move to Dublin, you have far more options, and any failure to appreciate them, is completely on you. I lived in Dublin for two years, after college, and I didn't like it. That was on me, but as a young person with little experience, I didn't have the balanced perspective to recognise that. I've been back a few times since and had a very different experience. In general terms, Ireland is a great country, although comparatively speaking, it's an expensive country.

I moved to Asia immediately after the Banking crash. Lived in Oz, and then, a variety of other Asian countries. When I lived in small cities, or the countryside, I experienced the same problems I had in Thurles, limited options. When I lived in cities of 9 million people or more, there was far greater options, and I enjoyed the experience more.

But I think people have to consider what work they do, and how that factors into things. I majored in Business/Finance, and most of my roles were connected to Credit Control, which is very much language based. So, I was mostly limited to English speaking countries, so I shifted roles to Management consulting, which was far more in demand in other nations. That shift also presented me with access to more levels of interaction with others, giving me the chance to see more levels of those cultures... whereas when I did credit control, even as a manager, I wasn't being introduced to the more prestigious or wealthier spheres of people.

The point being that when it comes to moving abroad, it shouldn't simply be the case of picking a destination. Consideration should be done regarding your career, and what you want from it, since that will affect your exposure to other cultures. Also, it's worth considering just how interested you are in developing your social life? Are you going to spend your free time getting stoned, and playing computer games? or are you going to be active, putting yourself out there, making friends, and pushing your own development?

I love living abroad. I have grown to appreciate Ireland due to my experiences living abroad, but I have little desire to live full-time here. However, at some point, practicalities kick in. Do you plan on leaving Ireland forever? Will you be contributing to a State pension, in addition to your own pension? Considering that it takes over twenty years for one to become eligible for the state pension, are you going to return to Ireland with enough time to avail of it, or are you going to find an alternative way to look after your retirement age?

I would highly recommend to everyone to live a few years abroad. Explore other cultures. Live in some major cities, like Berlin, or Tokyo. See what it's like in other places, and experience other cultures... but... don't skimp on being practical too. Make some realistic plans about your career development, do your research on financing, and pensions.. It's very easy to suddenly look back and realise that you've been a decade abroad, (and while it was fun), but then understand you've done little beyond paying your expenses.

[Deleted User]

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Probably not a good place to put this op as the majority of the posters on boards are late 30s plus and are all part of the green jersey brigade. I recommend continental Europe Op and not a capital city or second city. You will never be rich but you will have a very high standard of living plus if you miss the folks you can always hop on a plane to see them.

But that is not what people want you could go to Waterford or Limerick for that.

If they work in the media, music, performance, IT, anything finance or legal they want a capital city with all the cool stuff and more importantly, all the career opportunities minus the high rents and housing costs.

It's a bit of fantasy.

[Deleted User]

Just for fun, look at the prices of property in silicon valley.

The 2018 median home price in Silicon Valley was $1.18 million, anywhere people want to live because of the opportunities are always expensive.

irishguitarlad

mariaalice wrote: »

But that is not what people want you could go to Waterford or Limerick for that.

If they work in the media, music, performance, IT, anything finance or legal they want a capital city with all the cool stuff and more importantly, all the career opportunities minus the high rents and housing costs.

It's a bit of fantasy.

So you are comparing Seville, Valencia, Málaga, Lyon, Toulouse, Nice, Munich, Cologne, Frankfurt to Waterford and Limerick? and also saying that there is no work in said cities in the areas you have mentioned and no cool stuff to do?I haven't even mentioned Belgium, Holland or Italy either and the cities outside their top 2.

[Deleted User]

irishguitarlad wrote: »

So you are comparing Seville, Valencia, Málaga, Lyon, Toulouse, Nice, Munich, Cologne, Frankfurt to Waterford and Limerick? and also saying that there is no work in said cities in the areas you have mentioned and no cool stuff to do?I haven't even mentioned Belgium, Holland or Italy either and the cities outside their top 2.

I am sure they are all lovely with lots of employment but that not what it's about for most, they want the career type of employment that you get in capital cities or large cities in the US. Canada, Australia and NZ. There is also the language issue.

whisky_galore

mariaalice wrote: »

I am sure they are all lovely but that not what it's about for most, they want the career type of employment that you get in capital cities or large cities in the US. Canada, Australia and NZ. There is also the language issue.

How ever do non Anglophones manage in Ireland?
Just get off your arse and learn the language!

irishguitarlad

mariaalice wrote: »

I am sure they are all lovely with lots of employment but that not what it's about for most, they want the career type of employment that you get in capital cities or large cities in the US. Canada, Australia and NZ. There is also the language issue.

Language issue can be overcome but I get what you're saying, Irish people in general when they emigrate are very tunnel visioned in their choices.

[Deleted User]

CageWager wrote: »

Anyone under the age of 35 who is single with no kids is crazy to stay in Ireland. Hard to see anything going in the right direction - rising cost of living with stagnant wages.

I recommend people get more creative with their choice of destination than the usual Oz/NZ/Canada thing. Lots of fabulous countries in Asia and Latin America where you can have an excellent standard of living.

Thats happening worldwide at the moment. Your going to struggle to find a country as soft as Ireland. Best of luck.

theteal

I'm kind of hoping to move back at some point. . .

Thelonious Monk

whisky_galore wrote: »

How ever do non Anglophones manage in Ireland?
Just get off your arse and learn the language!

It's kind of a different ball game, everyone wants to learn English in other countries and have been doing so since they were children and Anglophone culture is popular worldwide. It's also the international language.
I have been learning Spanish for years now and am at a decent level but I would still need full immersion to get totally comfortable.

Also Valencia, Seville, Porto etc are lovely places but people don't go there not only because of the language, but because there are few employment opportunities and unemployment is usually a lot higher than Ireland.

Thelonious Monk

Is this a thing in other similar sized countries? Like in Finland do people start going on about emigrating any time there are housing and jobs issues? Or is it just kind of an Irish tradition to leave when the going gets tough?

Strumms

A language isn’t difficult to learn for many people ...it’s a little time consuming however and you need to put in the work, the hours...

In years gone by you had to rely on a book and a teacher / tutor.

Now you’d ‘probably’ need neither as pretty much all is done online...

irishguitarlad

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's kind of a different ball game, everyone wants to learn English in other countries and have been doing so since they were children and Anglophone culture is popular worldwide. It's also the international language.
I have been learning Spanish for years now and am at a decent level but I would still need full immersion to get totally comfortable.

Also Valencia, Seville, Porto etc are lovely places but people don't go there not only because of the language, but because there are few employment opportunities and unemployment is usually a lot higher than Ireland.

And what about cities in Germany,Holland,Belgium and France? Lots of employment there no?

[Deleted User]

I take it many of the pro emigration posters have never actually lived and worked abroad?

We have it pretty good here. Not the best, but far from the worst. Well paid job opportunities in abundance, nice climate and scenery to boot. Lots of culture on our doorstep.

Now if only we sorted out public transport, insurance and the rental market we could be a top class country!!!

Thelonious Monk

irishguitarlad wrote: »

And what about cities in Germany,Holland,Belgium and France? Lots of employment there no?

I would imagine there's some alright but not much of it accessible to your typical Irish person. I mean I couldn't go to Lyon or Arnhem and expect to find anything beyond menial work because of the language and my CV, I would imagine most are in the same boat.

Tell me how

BenDover2020 wrote: »

It's a relatively safe country, i'll give you that but it's by no means " not a bad country to live in" It's a kip, but a safe kip

You've lived a very sheltered life if you think Ireland can be categorized as a kip on the international scale.

irelandrover

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I would imagine there's some alright but not much of it accessible to your typical Irish person. I mean I couldn't go to Lyon or Arnhem and expect to find anything beyond menial work because of the language and my CV, I would imagine most are in the same boat.

You could definitely go to Arnhem and get work beyond menial work without speaking Dutch. Healthcare is about the only profession in the Netherlands that is closed off if you don't speak dutch.

Thelonious Monk

irelandrover wrote: »

You could definitely go to Arnhem and get work beyond menial work without speaking Dutch. Healthcare is about the only profession in the Netherlands that is closed off if you don't speak dutch.

Arnhem is a bridge too far for me

irelandrover

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Arnhem is a bridge too far for me

I really hope hope that your original post was just to set that up. Fair play.

Witchie

Just landed myself a job in Malaysia so I can get back to Kuala Lumpur in the next month or so. I have lived there for almost 4 years and miss it like mad.

While my wage is crap by Irish standards it's more than enough to live comfortably there.

Planning on getting a condo like this in this building, across the road from the Petronas Towers for about €400 a month with rooftop pool etc. Sky Suites

Been back in Ireland since November and don't think can take much more. Such a rip off for everything.

And Malaysia is 4th best country for expats according to Internations.

dxhound2005

That looks better than this:

https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/183847/view/polluted-river-running-through-a-malaysian-slum

I see Greater KL has a population of 8 million. It would not suit those who think Ireland is overcrowded with 5 million.

Purple is a Fruit

Northernlily wrote: »

I take it many of the pro emigration posters have never actually lived and worked abroad?

We have it pretty good here. Not the best, but far from the worst. Well paid job opportunities in abundance, nice climate and scenery to boot. Lots of culture on our doorstep.

Now if only we sorted out public transport, insurance and the rental market we could be a top class country!!!

The climate isn't extreme but it's awful. If I could do what I wanted, I'd go to southern California from early January until April/May. Happy to be in Ireland the rest of the time (I like wintry weather from Halloween to Christmas).

Nothing wrong imo with people wanting to live abroad - temporarily or permanently - just the nonsense notions people have of this country.