The glorious 12th

janfebmar wrote: »

I am not aware of calls for inquiries from family members. Unless new evidence is produced what would be the point as the killings were already investigated a long time ago?

Do you support them if they do exist?

janfebmar wrote: »

Not while 200 people got amnesty letters, and all other prisoners were released, and while the cost of the Bloody Sunday inquiry was £195,000,000.00, and while other certain people will not even admit they were in the ira. As I said, unless new evidence is produced what would be the point as the killings were already investigated a long time ago?

So that is a no them.

My opinion of your morals remains unchanged. You don't deserve decent government.

There were no letters of 'amnesty' btw. The 'letters of comfort' were given by the same government that had no regard to it's responsibilities nor it duties under fundamental human rights law either.
They also had to pay the cost of an inquiry because they ran away from the summary executions their soldiers carried out and they whitewashed them to such an extent that people like blanch152 still believes that the dead did not come out as innocent and people like you try to excuse and vindicate the soldiers for what happened.

janfebmar wrote: »

LOL. Maybe I will be one of the people you want to deport in the event of a "United Ireland"?

I would be more worried if my morals were like yours Francie, as you expressed support for certain paramilitaries who you said were justified and correct in "acts of war" in "killing" certain "legitimate targets" which include certain public service pensioners, elected politicians etc.

I at least condemn the activities of paramilitaries on both sides, unlike you, and my opinion of your morals has not changed. If I was praised by you (or the mysterious davycc, who thanks you when you are desperate) I would be more worried.

So once again your answer is a tissue of lies.

And your defence of the British government's activity is based on a tissue of lies. As we seen, what masquerades as your moral standpoint very quickly hit a wall.
You cannot even show support for a fundamental and basic principle of governance.

In your desperation and flailing around you even attack another poster whose terrible and heinous sin is that he chooses to read posts here.

janfebmar wrote: »

Does it? Not really. My view is consistent with that of the law, and most people north and south I would say.


I do actually. I believe the security forces of a democratically elected government have a right and obligation to act within the law, and that they in turn should expect to be able to live peacefully without fear of attack when on or off duty, or retired.

You, however, have justified attacks and murder of people by unelected paramilitaries.

But you won't support the upholding of a fundamental principle of governance cause 'themums got something'.

Away up the yard, as they'd say around here. You don't even recognise your own hypocrisy.

It is crystal clear what you stand for and I am not the only contributor to this thread that can see it either.

janfebmar wrote: »

And what fundamental principle would that be? In post no. 2649 I agreed the State should not be involved in extrajudicial killings (of whomsoever) or summary executions where an arrest and trial can be affected. They should not lower themselves to the standards of those attacking them.

Once again you got your facts wrong Francie. It is becoming extremely regular now.

And that is the hypocrisy - identical to the hypocrisy of the British government who have signed up to this principle.

You spout that you believe it but you refuse to allow or support anyone who wants to challenge it = stone cold hypocrisy.

Goodnight janfebmar. We are done with this sick nonsense.

downcow wrote: »

No. I would rather see the billions required spent on health and education ie our future

Thankfully you Unionists no longer have a veto. They never had a great sense of the responsibilities of power.

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you put as much effort into your own countries problems that would probably be more useful than constantly telling Britain and NI what they're doing wrong.
I don't know anyone else who is as vocal in their opinions on how to make everything right using your template-"the thoughts of chairman francie"

I'm in my 'own' country Rob.

janfebmar wrote: »

Ever think of fixing our own jurisdictions problems Francie instead of complaining so much about the neighbours all the time?

There is no nirvana out there janfebmar, anywhere. There will always be issues and problems and I do my fair share in addressing them.

The south is correct at the top. It has to all intents and purposes a functional (for the people) constitution inspired by the clauses of the Proclamation. It has stood us in good stead and allowed us to eventually shake off the yoke of the church.. As other writers have remarked, the Vatican congress of 1932 showed quite clearly that the new state didn't stand a chance.

I think, having read the latest biog of Dev, that his hard fought decision not to make the Roman Catholic religion the official state religion actually enabled us to separate church and state much more easily when the time came and was inspired.
The people of the south are as much as is possible truly sovereign in a republican sense and that is a testament to the founders of the state. .

In other words, we are set up properly as a state, and the rapid move away from the church and our emergence as a modern, progressive state (not without it's problems) that can speak it's own mind and make it's own way n the world shows that clearly.

In contrast the northern state is wrong from the top down, you had the British, like you jan, paying lipservice to notions of democracy and human rights while doing and supporting the exact opposite, for decades.
As a consequence the state has never worked and will never work properly. It is rotten at the top.
It's a microcosm of the UK itself whose rottenness is being laid bare in front of our eyes. That rottenness is it English centric core. History will see that as the reason it breaks up, not Brexit, which is only a symptom of their problem.

janfebmar wrote: »

Hold on a second there Francie and look at some of the people we had at the top in our adult lifetime. There was Haughey, who told us all to wear the hair shirt while he was secretly buying the most expensive hand made shirts in the world, with his secret Mistress. And where did he get the money to buy Kinsealy, and what of the arms trial? Then there was Bertie, who as minister for finance never even had a bank account but was great at getting dig outs from his pals, and sure he won the rest of his money on de horses. And Cowen, who infamously went on the radio drunk to give a political insight one morning, having been taped in high spirits at a sing song at 2.30 that morning! Thanks to "correct" people like that at the top we had the bank bailout Francie.

Yeah Francie, the country is very correct at the top. The church in this country was very correct too in 79 during the Popes visit, but then decades later all the scandals came out, and it even emerged the 2 on the alter with the Pope in Galway were secretly fathers. The Church still owes the State a lot of money: how can you say the south is correct at the top when this sort of carry on goes on?
In other countries, people resign over far less.

I should have put a bet on that you would write the list.

The point is, as I said, we have and had our problems, but we survived them, the people remain sovereign and we DON'T require an international agreement between two countries and a special form of devolution to function.

And we survive and march on as a country because we fundamentally have a constitution that serves the people not ONE section of society. And as you have just shown, if you are a Charlie Haughey, or a Brian Cowen or an errant church, you will not survive in power.

Look northwards and you still have the OO, a Unionist party desperately trying to cling on to it's veto, and a British government that pays lip service to caring for the whole sorry 100 year old mess.

janfebmar wrote: »

Haughey and Ahern and Cowen remained in power here as long as politicians in other countries did, despite their failings. The Catholic church still has a lot of power here eg over education, still a lot of property and still owes the state a lot of money for abuse victims. There is an accommodation crises, a homelessness crises, our health systems is in ruins etc.

Not really interested in getting into a discussion on this with a serial Irish denegrator.
We largely didn't know what either Cowen or Haughey were doing until near the end of their political careers. And when we did the inevitable happened when the people are ultimately sovereign.
Yes, the church owes money, but that is ongoing, I am glad that again, the people had their constitution behind them and were able to separate church and state. (also an ongoing project)

Look north and they still have a functioning education and health system,

So do we. Maybe stop being melodramatic? We have as many problems as the NHS and the Education board, but we function.

insurance companies do not regard the place as a basket case

Well, any fool will tell you that is because it is attached to a 60 million population.

and they still have an Orange border. Nobody is forcing you to join it, same as nobody forces people to join the GAA, Opus Dei or the Knights.

No, nobody is forcing me to join it, but they are pushing their Unionist veto mentality on society. See their resolutions.

This is the last time I am going to do this list stuff, where you get to do what you do best, denigrate aspects of Ireland to praise the British.

In general, because we have a sound constitution we cope with whatever is thrown at us. We have not broken down into bloody conflict since the state was established.

The north is in cyclical conflict since partition and is about to cause mayhem on this island again, precisely because it is wrongly constituted from the top down.

janfebmar wrote: »

Not while 200 people got amnesty letters, and all other prisoners were released, and while the cost of the Bloody Sunday inquiry was £195,000,000.00, and while other certain people will not even admit they were in the ira. As I said, unless new evidence is produced what would be the point as the killings were already investigated a long time ago?

Why do you keep bringing in Bloody Sunday and the cost ? You do know that the 1st investigation was a white wash and cover up so the new one was needed to uncover the truth.

If the Army and Government acted right the 1st time there would have been no need for the 2nd inquiry.

Also I see neither you or someone else here have spoken out on what happened in Derry over the weekend

janfebmar wrote: »

So the reason they have much less insurance premiums, a better health service, lower taxes etc is because they are attached to 60 million.
QED.

Did you notice how I separated out your shopping list to comment on each one by any semblance of a chance. Jaysus. What is the freaking point with somebody like you. :rolleyes:

downcow wrote: »

...agreed, but in the scheme of things it’s very minor. A small Protestant enclave in Belfast has been getting a hammering this week. And much more serious graffiti in Derry this week is the stuff trying to scupper the investigation in Lyra murder threatening that anyone giving info about it will be shot. The good people of Derry had the soldier f graffiti down in a couple of hours but won’t touch the anti Lyra stuff. Interesting.
So I hope the police don’t get the soldier f graffiti out of perspective just because of republican noise.

Here you are again bringing Lyra into it after her family have asked people stop using her name as political football

I seen the police are out in force to help contractors remove an anti-interment bonfire in Belfast. Pity they don't enforce such actions on the 11th night bonfire's instead of letting the bully boys win.

Maybe the difference is that SF and SDLP want the bonfire's gone

Just wee toe rags building the bonfire that the community there don't want but the police handling is very telling. Where they said they could not guarantee the contractors safety on the days leading to the 11th but can today.