The glorious 12th

citytillidie wrote: »

If you can’t see what that appearing in free Derry corner means then I dunno I guess you know nothing. Bet you were celebrating it with the others who were celebrating it like a victory on Saturday

I think you will see I condemned it. But you guys have got BS in this special place. That somehow the feelings of those families are more important that the feelings of others. You just need to get some perspective. The stuff up at the minute threating to kill informers is imho much more serious.
But hear me again. The graffiti on free Derry corner is absolutely wrong and shouldn’t happen. Hardly a case for directing important police resources at.

citytillidie

downcow wrote: »

...agreed, but in the scheme of things it’s very minor. A small Protestant enclave in Belfast has been getting a hammering this week. And much more serious graffiti in Derry this week is the stuff trying to scupper the investigation in Lyra murder threatening that anyone giving info about it will be shot. The good people of Derry had the soldier f graffiti down in a couple of hours but won’t touch the anti Lyra stuff. Interesting.
So I hope the police don’t get the soldier f graffiti out of perspective just because of republican noise.

If you can’t see what that appearing in free Derry corner means then I dunno I guess you know nothing. Bet you were celebrating it with the others who were celebrating it like a victory on Saturday

citytillidie

downcow wrote: »

...agreed, but in the scheme of things it’s very minor. A small Protestant enclave in Belfast has been getting a hammering this week. And much more serious graffiti in Derry this week is the stuff trying to scupper the investigation in Lyra murder threatening that anyone giving info about it will be shot. The good people of Derry had the soldier f graffiti down in a couple of hours but won’t touch the anti Lyra stuff. Interesting.
So I hope the police don’t get the soldier f graffiti out of perspective just because of republican noise.

Here you are again bringing Lyra into it after her family have asked people stop using her name as political football

downcow wrote: »

My point is prioritise It wouldn’t be a priority as I see it. Much more important to get the Derry anti Lyra stuff felt with.

Of course it isn't a priority, nothing seems to be for you, when it is happening to the nationalist community.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So ignore it, because 'themuns over there' are worse?

My point is prioritise It wouldn’t be a priority as I see it. Much more important to get the Derry anti Lyra stuff felt with.

downcow wrote: »

...agreed, but in the scheme of things it’s very minor. A small Protestant enclave in Belfast has been getting a hammering this week. And much more serious graffiti in Derry this week is the stuff trying to scupper the investigation in Lyra murder threatening that anyone giving info about it will be shot. The good people of Derry had the soldier f graffiti down in a couple of hours but won’t touch the anti Lyra stuff. Interesting.
So I hope the police don’t get the soldier f graffiti out of perspective just because of republican noise.

So ignore it, because 'themuns over there' are worse?

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you`re talking about the soldier F stencil,that is horrendous,who ever did that should be ashamed and I hope if they are caught they should face the full weight of the law.

...agreed, but in the scheme of things it’s very minor. A small Protestant enclave in Belfast has been getting a hammering this week. And much more serious graffiti in Derry this week is the stuff trying to scupper the investigation in Lyra murder threatening that anyone giving info about it will be shot. The good people of Derry had the soldier f graffiti down in a couple of hours but won’t touch the anti Lyra stuff. Interesting.
So I hope the police don’t get the soldier f graffiti out of perspective just because of republican noise.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There is no point. You'd do yourself and everyone else a favour if you just ignored her.

You might be right, her last two posts - her blindspot and fetish all in one.

Junkyard Tom

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is the freaking point with somebody like you. :rolleyes:

There is no point. You'd do yourself and everyone else a favour if you just ignored her.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Compare that to northern Ireland where a Unionist party with the support of the British had control of it for over 70 years.

Their majority was a sizeable majority, but you keep thinking Northern Catholics were MOPS (most oppressed people ever). They were not. In Northern Ireland, the minority kept getting bigger throughout the 20th century, in fact in the 20th century in the UK minorities of all types ( religious, sexual, etc) thrived and grew in numbers, inc many from Ireland.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The south is correct at the top.

Nobody is saying any place was or is perfect but one thing for sure Francie, unless you are a retired top politician or top banker here, Ireland is not "correct at the top".

Any more great one liners for a laugh Francie, like "no accommodation crises in Ireland", "Ireland's bankers were always correct" or "DeValera saves Jews from Europe"? or "Tuam sewage pit babies from mid 20th Century were Britains fault"

FrancieBrady wrote: »

a state that has failed over the 100 years of it's existence.

Northern Ireland arguably made a much bigger contribution to saving Europe from Facism than we did, what with its use in the battle of the Atlantic and its overall contribution to the war effort.

Who was behind the failed border campaign of 1956 -1962 or other failed attempts to undermine the state?

janfebmar wrote: »

I listed the likes of Haughey, Ahern, Cowen etc as they were the calibre of people at the top in Ireland ( they were all Taoiseagh ). They were not a "shopping list". They were listed as you claimed "the south is correct at the top".
Do you really think they were correct, after all is known about them?

As said before, other leaders in any other western country would have resigned over less.

I really think you have an inability for this level of discussion.

What have Cowen, Ahern, Haughey got to do with our constitution and the quality of it? Every country in the world has bad leaders, corrupt and incompetent politicians. We got rid of them, because we could. And we broke the bonds with the church too.
We the people are sovereign because of the quality of our constitution. (AND I STRESS AGAIN, there are the same day to day problems as any other democracy has)

Compare that to northern Ireland where a Unionist party with the support of the British had control of it for over 70 years.They had a veto that was only ended when Ireland (us) and Britain negotiated the Anglo Irish Agreement.

NI was rotten from the TOP down.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you notice how I separated out your shopping list to comment on each one by any semblance of a chance.

I listed the likes of Haughey, Ahern, Cowen etc as they were the calibre of people at the top in Ireland ( they were all Taoiseagh ). They were not a "shopping list". They were listed as you claimed "the south is correct at the top".
Do you really think they were correct, after all is known about them?

As said before, other leaders in any other western country would have resigned over less.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, the church owes money, but that is ongoing,

It has been ongoing for a long time Francie and investigations in to its abuses were "ongoing" 40 years ago. Except more and more came out. Every year something new. Only last year the remains of hundreds of children buried in a mass grave / sewerage tank at a former Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home were promised to be exhumed as part of a major forensic investigation. Someone discovered discovered 796 juvenile deaths at the institution were registered where no burial location was recorded. The government promised to implement a multi-disciplinary framework, known as “humanitarian forensic action”, as the appropriate response to the discover of the remains of children there....but has it actually done anything? I would say the government is more concerned about the Fine Gael politician putting in the insurance claim after falling off the swing in a nightclub.

For generations people could not even buy condoms in this state, such was its grip, they had to go to N.I. for same. Yeah Francie, "the south is correct at the top"....except some of those at the top even sued and said they should have had adult supervision on how to use a swing. No wonder Europe's insurance companies view us as a basket case.

RobMc59 wrote: »

You don`t want to get into a discussion about Ireland`s shortcomings-your only interested in your favourite subject-telling everyone how bad the UK is,how bad the "belligerent unionists","partitionists"(offensive term constantly used as a weapon to upset by you)any generally anyone who does`nt share your vision.
I personally would NEVER criticise Ireland`s heroes-I have too much respect for Ireland ,you on the other hand have no respect for Ireland`s closest neighbours and think it`s acceptable to be offensive and derogatory about all the people of the UK and Northern Ireland hold dear.

No, I don't want to go into specifics because apart from the fact it fulfills somebody's fetish, it is a discussion that can be held in general terms.

And I don;t 'criticise' everyone in Britain, please stop being melodramatic as well. It is a thread about northern Ireland, a state that has failed over the 100 years of it's existence.

I have pointed to a reason why, if you can counter that go ahead. It is quite an interesting time in history.

janfebmar wrote: »

So the reason they have much less insurance premiums, a better health service, lower taxes etc is because they are attached to 60 million.
QED.

Did you notice how I separated out your shopping list to comment on each one by any semblance of a chance. Jaysus. What is the freaking point with somebody like you. :rolleyes:

RobMc59

citytillidie wrote: »

Why do you keep bringing in Bloody Sunday and the cost ? You do know that the 1st investigation was a white wash and cover up so the new one was needed to uncover the truth.

If the Army and Government acted right the 1st time there would have been no need for the 2nd inquiry.

Also I see neither you or someone else here have spoken out on what happened in Derry over the weekend

If you`re talking about the soldier F stencil,that is horrendous,who ever did that should be ashamed and I hope if they are caught they should face the full weight of the law.

citytillidie wrote: »

Why do you keep bringing in Bloody Sunday and the cost ?

It's not me who keeps harping on about Bloody Sunday : the only reason I mention it then was because someone asked would I be in favour of more such inquiries ( for victims of the British of course - Republicans never want inquiries for the far more numerous victims of Republican violence). I pointed out the Bloody Sunday inquiry cost £195,000,000 stg. I would prefer see taxpayers money spent on something else for the future, as someone said, like education or health., that to see billions spent on inquiries and old sores re-opened.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not really interested in getting into a discussion on this with a serial Irish denegrator.
We largely didn't know what either Cowen or Haughey were doing until near the end of their political careers. And when we did the inevitable happened when the people are ultimately sovereign.
Yes, the church owes money, but that is ongoing, I am glad that again, the people had their constitution behind them and were able to separate church and state. (also an ongoing project)

So do we. Maybe stop being melodramatic? We have as many problems as the NHS and the Education board, but we function.
Well, any fool will tell you that is because it is attached to a 60 million population.

No, nobody is forcing me to join it, but they are pushing their Unionist veto mentality on society. See their resolutions.

This is the last time I am going to do this list stuff, where you get to do what you do best, denigrate aspects of Ireland to praise the British.

In general, because we have a sound constitution we cope with whatever is thrown at us. We have not broken down into bloody conflict since the state was established.

The north is in cyclical conflict since partition and is about to cause mayhem on this island again, precisely because it is wrongly constituted from the top down.

You don`t want to get into a discussion about Ireland`s shortcomings-your only interested in your favourite subject-telling everyone how bad the UK is,how bad the "belligerent unionists","partitionists"(offensive term constantly used as a weapon to upset by you)any generally anyone who does`nt share your vision.
I personally would NEVER criticise Ireland`s heroes-I have too much respect for Ireland ,you on the other hand have no respect for Ireland`s closest neighbours and think it`s acceptable to be offensive and derogatory about all the people of the UK and Northern Ireland hold dear.

citytillidie

janfebmar wrote: »

Not while 200 people got amnesty letters, and all other prisoners were released, and while the cost of the Bloody Sunday inquiry was £195,000,000.00, and while other certain people will not even admit they were in the ira. As I said, unless new evidence is produced what would be the point as the killings were already investigated a long time ago?

Why do you keep bringing in Bloody Sunday and the cost ? You do know that the 1st investigation was a white wash and cover up so the new one was needed to uncover the truth.

If the Army and Government acted right the 1st time there would have been no need for the 2nd inquiry.

Also I see neither you or someone else here have spoken out on what happened in Derry over the weekend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, any fool will tell you that is because it is attached to a 60 million population.

.

So the reason they have much less insurance premiums, a better health service, lower taxes etc is because they are attached to 60 million.
QED.

janfebmar wrote: »

Haughey and Ahern and Cowen remained in power here as long as politicians in other countries did, despite their failings. The Catholic church still has a lot of power here eg over education, still a lot of property and still owes the state a lot of money for abuse victims. There is an accommodation crises, a homelessness crises, our health systems is in ruins etc.

Not really interested in getting into a discussion on this with a serial Irish denegrator.
We largely didn't know what either Cowen or Haughey were doing until near the end of their political careers. And when we did the inevitable happened when the people are ultimately sovereign.
Yes, the church owes money, but that is ongoing, I am glad that again, the people had their constitution behind them and were able to separate church and state. (also an ongoing project)

Look north and they still have a functioning education and health system,

So do we. Maybe stop being melodramatic? We have as many problems as the NHS and the Education board, but we function.

insurance companies do not regard the place as a basket case

Well, any fool will tell you that is because it is attached to a 60 million population.

and they still have an Orange border. Nobody is forcing you to join it, same as nobody forces people to join the GAA, Opus Dei or the Knights.

No, nobody is forcing me to join it, but they are pushing their Unionist veto mentality on society. See their resolutions.

This is the last time I am going to do this list stuff, where you get to do what you do best, denigrate aspects of Ireland to praise the British.

In general, because we have a sound constitution we cope with whatever is thrown at us. We have not broken down into bloody conflict since the state was established.

The north is in cyclical conflict since partition and is about to cause mayhem on this island again, precisely because it is wrongly constituted from the top down.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And we survive and march on as a country because we fundamentally have a constitution that serves the people not ONE section of society. And as you have just shown, if you are a Charlie Haughey, or a Brian Cowen or an errant church, you will not survive in power.

Look northwards and you still have the OO, a Unionist party desperately trying to cling on to it's veto, and a British government that pays lip service to caring for the whole sorry 100 year old mess.

Haughey and Ahern and Cowen remained in power here as long as politicians in other countries did, despite their failings. The Catholic church still has a lot of power here eg over education, still a lot of property and still owes the state a lot of money for abuse victims. There is an accommodation crises, a homelessness crises, our health systems is in ruins etc.

Look north and they still have a functioning education and health system, insurance companies do not regard the place as a basket case and they still have an Orange order. Nobody is forcing you to join it, same as nobody forces people to join the GAA, Opus Dei or the Knights.

Neither jurisdiction is perfect but for you to claim Ireland is correct at the top Is pulling the piss. Maybe if you are a government official or top banker...

Ireland correct at the top lol. We were rescued by the trike (UK, IMF, EU) only a short number of years ago.

janfebmar wrote: »

Hold on a second there Francie and look at some of the people we had at the top in our adult lifetime. There was Haughey, who told us all to wear the hair shirt while he was secretly buying the most expensive hand made shirts in the world, with his secret Mistress. And where did he get the money to buy Kinsealy, and what of the arms trial? Then there was Bertie, who as minister for finance never even had a bank account but was great at getting dig outs from his pals, and sure he won the rest of his money on de horses. And Cowen, who infamously went on the radio drunk to give a political insight one morning, having been taped in high spirits at a sing song at 2.30 that morning! Thanks to "correct" people like that at the top we had the bank bailout Francie.

Yeah Francie, the country is very correct at the top. The church in this country was very correct too in 79 during the Popes visit, but then decades later all the scandals came out, and it even emerged the 2 on the alter with the Pope in Galway were secretly fathers. The Church still owes the State a lot of money: how can you say the south is correct at the top when this sort of carry on goes on?
In other countries, people resign over far less.

I should have put a bet on that you would write the list.

The point is, as I said, we have and had our problems, but we survived them, the people remain sovereign and we DON'T require an international agreement between two countries and a special form of devolution to function.

And we survive and march on as a country because we fundamentally have a constitution that serves the people not ONE section of society. And as you have just shown, if you are a Charlie Haughey, or a Brian Cowen or an errant church, you will not survive in power.

Look northwards and you still have the OO, a Unionist party desperately trying to cling on to it's veto, and a British government that pays lip service to caring for the whole sorry 100 year old mess.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

.

The south is correct at the top.

Hold on a second there Francie and look at some of the people we had at the top in our adult lifetime. There was Haughey, who told us all to wear the hair shirt while he was secretly buying the most expensive hand made shirts in the world, with his secret Mistress. And where did he get the money to buy Kinsealy, and what of the arms trial? Then there was Bertie, who as minister for finance never even had a bank account but was great at getting dig outs from his pals, and sure he won the rest of his money on de horses. And Cowen, who infamously went on the radio drunk to give a political insight one morning, having been taped in high spirits at a sing song at 2.30 that morning! Thanks to "correct" people like that at the top we had the bank bailout Francie.

Yeah Francie, the country is very correct at the top. The church in this country was very correct too in 79 during the Popes visit, but then decades later all the scandals came out, and it even emerged the 2 on the alter with the Pope in Galway were secretly fathers. The Church still owes the State a lot of money: how can you say the south is correct at the top when this sort of carry on goes on?
In other countries, people resign over far less.

janfebmar wrote: »

Ever think of fixing our own jurisdictions problems Francie instead of complaining so much about the neighbours all the time?

There is no nirvana out there janfebmar, anywhere. There will always be issues and problems and I do my fair share in addressing them.

The south is correct at the top. It has to all intents and purposes a functional (for the people) constitution inspired by the clauses of the Proclamation. It has stood us in good stead and allowed us to eventually shake off the yoke of the church.. As other writers have remarked, the Vatican congress of 1932 showed quite clearly that the new state didn't stand a chance.

I think, having read the latest biog of Dev, that his hard fought decision not to make the Roman Catholic religion the official state religion actually enabled us to separate church and state much more easily when the time came and was inspired.
The people of the south are as much as is possible truly sovereign in a republican sense and that is a testament to the founders of the state. .

In other words, we are set up properly as a state, and the rapid move away from the church and our emergence as a modern, progressive state (not without it's problems) that can speak it's own mind and make it's own way n the world shows that clearly.

In contrast the northern state is wrong from the top down, you had the British, like you jan, paying lipservice to notions of democracy and human rights while doing and supporting the exact opposite, for decades.
As a consequence the state has never worked and will never work properly. It is rotten at the top.
It's a microcosm of the UK itself whose rottenness is being laid bare in front of our eyes. That rottenness is it English centric core. History will see that as the reason it breaks up, not Brexit, which is only a symptom of their problem.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm in my 'own' country Rob.

Ever think of fixing our own jurisdictions problems Francie instead of complaining so much about the neighbours all the time?

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you put as much effort into your own countries problems that would probably be more useful than constantly telling Britain and NI what they're doing wrong.
I don't know anyone else who is as vocal in their opinions on how to make everything right using your template-"the thoughts of chairman francie"

I'm in my 'own' country Rob.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

downcow wrote: »

No. I would rather see the billions required spent on health and education ie our future

Thankfully you Unionists no longer have a veto. They never had a great sense of the responsibilities of power.

If you put as much effort into your own countries problems that would probably be more useful than constantly telling Britain and NI what they're doing wrong.
I don't know anyone else who is as vocal in their opinions on how to make everything right using your template-"the thoughts of chairman francie"

downcow wrote: »

No. I would rather see the billions required spent on health and education ie our future

Thankfully you Unionists no longer have a veto. They never had a great sense of the responsibilities of power.