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What would you have done?

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    #92
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    SNIP

    Still using the lovely language I see, but not angry at all of course. You actually brought the point about your daughter up yourself, saying if she was ever in that situation you hope she doesn't come across a shower of something or others like us.


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    #93
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Antares35 wrote: »
    I have a daughter too and also hope she never ends up like this, as I'm sure most parents do. If I had a son, I'd advise him not to get involved either, in order to protect himself from false allegations.
    Why don't you tell him to stay away from her and ring the guards and tell them where she is and to go collect her?

    And NO ...no one should go near a vulnerable woman. I don't know if you are a rapist or not. Its not safe for women to think they can let men go up to them. And its not safe for MEN who are drunk to let men go up to them too.

    Just call the guards. Direct them to where she is. Its not rocket science.

    No NO one should be going up to drunk people ..men or women. You should not be going up to drunk blokes either.


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    #94
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    What are people afraid of happening if they asked her if she was OK?

    Someone could be waiting to jump you. She could have been groped by someone else ...or drugged by someone else. And think its you.

    Also ITS NOT a good idea to tell women its safe to let random men help them. Nor is it safe for men

    Reynard Sinaga was a guy who waited for drunk guys to pass ..he would offer to help them if they were wasted ..he would offer them water or a drink but it was drugged he would them rape them.

    He raped TWO HUNDRED MEN and recorded it on his phone.

    He is now in prison for 88 life sentences.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/25/friends-flatmates-reynhard-sinaga

    You should not offer a drunk girl help. Try and get a woman to help her ...or ring the guards ...

    Its not a good idea to make women think its OK to accept help from random men. Its just not.

    That is the world we live in ...

    Its not good for anyone.

    TRUST me its better for you ..its better for her.

    And for all you know she/he isn't drunk and its a scam.

    I was walking down the road and this drunk guy started to follow me. I started screaming at him to **** off.....he then stood up straight and it was clear he hadn't been drunk at all. But was TRYING to catch me off guard. He then said ok ...calm down im going. And then he left. Perfectly lucid. You don't know

    I wouldn't want a guy i didn't know coming up to me if i was drunk. I WOULD want him to call the guards.


    You are protecting everyone by letting pros handle it. Not everything has to be politicized.


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    #95
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    Wheres a mod, SmartinMartin is bang out of order throwing abuse at people left right and centre.
    Why bother trying debate with his replies


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    #96
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,023 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    In France it’s a crime not to offer assistance to a person in danger.
    Looks like Ireland needs something similar.


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    #97
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Locking this for the moment. Too many reported posts to count.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #98
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    rapul wrote: »
    Wheres a mod,
    Fast asleep, dreaming of swimwear models and 1960's Ferraris.

    SmartinMartin, take a break to calm down. Some posts deleted.


    Going forward(I feel dirty typing that) everyone chill, attack the poster not the post and so forth. Thread reopened

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #99
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Fast asleep, dreaming of swimwear models and 1960's Ferraris.

    SmartinMartin, take a break to calm down. Some posts deleted.


    Going forward(I feel dirty typing that) everyone chill, attack the poster not the post and so forth. Thread reopened

    I often thought Wibbs was Magnum and there we have it!!! Keep up the good worl’n


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    #100
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    Ha ha, you'd have to think twice to engage in this thread ..no mind picking up a plastered yang one :)

    It just reminded me of an female yank friend as we drove throught Washington St. in Cork one night many years ago around 3am. It was like a drunken high heeled mini skirted apocalypse.
    And she said "if this was the states .. they'd all be raped"
    I thought it was a bit much but she seemed adamant.


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    #101
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Why don't you tell him to stay away from her and ring the guards and tell them where she is and to go collect her?

    And NO ...no one should go near a vulnerable woman. I don't know if you are a rapist or not. Its not safe for women to think they can let men go up to them. And its not safe for MEN who are drunk to let men go up to them too.

    Just call the guards. Direct them to where she is. Its not rocket science.

    No NO one should be going up to drunk people ..men or women. You should not be going up to drunk blokes either.

    Maybe I would. When I said not get involved, I meant not go up asking her if she is ok etc. But in any event, my job as a parent is to make sure he always has his own welfare to the fore of his mind first and foremost. If other people want to raise martyrs, that's their parenting prerogative too

    Nobody is saying it's rocket science, the posters who have said they wouldn't intervene have been quite clear in their reasons why.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    volchitsa wrote: »
    In France it’s a crime not to offer assistance to a person in danger.
    Looks like Ireland needs something similar.

    No, it doesn't because "most" people are able to accept that there are different circumstances in life, and that we can choose for ourselves depending on those circumstances.

    There is a huge difference between someone drowning in a river, and someone wandering drunk at night. I'd seek to help the person drowning, whereas the drunk person? Nope. Probably not. (Although I have sought to help others before in certain circumstances)

    This thread seems to attract people who can't accept that these situations are not all the same. Looking for absolutes. I'd always help vs you would (in every situation) refuse. There are variables involved, and people should seek to protect themselves first, before leaping in to help others.


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    #103
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I didnt read through but Im guessing there must be a lot of monday morning quarterbacking going on, firstly being in a car automatically creates a disconnect and it can be more difficult to be spontaneous. If I had been walking by I might have shouted out do you need any help/call a taxi for example. In a car I'd imagine I would have just driven by and I would have been well past before I processed it, seeing someone drunk doesnt generate an automatic pull over to see what is going on. Ultimately whoever she is needs new friends

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #104
    Tig98
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Tig98


    If it were the opposite situation, and your daughter/wife came home and said she picked up a 20 something lad clearly scuttered at the side of the road and dropped him home how would you react? Would you applaud their good samaritan-ness or tell them to be more careful next time and just drive on?

    Probably the latter. We dont usually afford people the benefit of the doubt when the situation could quickly turn sour. Anyone watching you pulling up alongside the girl probably would have had similar thoughts about her safety.


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    #105
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Tig98 wrote: »
    If it were the opposite situation, and your daughter/wife came home and said she picked up a 20 something lad clearly scuttered at the side of the road and dropped him home how would you react? Would you applaud their good samaritan-ness or tell them to be more careful next time and just drive on?

    Probably the latter. We dont usually afford people the benefit of the doubt when the situation could quickly turn sour. Anyone watching you pulling up alongside the girl probably would have had similar thoughts about her safety.

    there are literally adverts warning about sketchy males "helping " young wans that are drunk. Unless they come out with benevolent males and the opposite message I think I would have to sit this one out. Ringing the local police station would cover good citizen so I'd agree with that
    I have intervened a couple of times were it looked like a kid was surrounded by a bunch of other kids and it looked a bit dodgy

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #106
    Tefral
    Registered Users Posts: 4,318 ✭✭✭Tefral


    This is certainly a polarising thread.

    I have to say id keep driving too, and I'd be known for the type of fella that would help someone out... I didn't always have this opinion, as id like to think if it were my wife or sisters or my mother someone would help them if they are in any sort of danger, but its gone crazy out there now. People are getting accused of all sorts and unfortunately the way things are going its your guilty until you can prove your innocent these days. Trial by social media has done this.

    Even if you would exonerate yourself there's always the "there's no smoke without fire" people who would never let you forget it. Reputation takes a lifetime to curate but only a second to destroy.

    There's even an article in the times today about women not exercising in public due to males. Everything is stacked against you as a man in helping out and someone turns on you for helping.


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    #107
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Speaking as a woman, if I was in a sticky situation late at night, say my car had broken down or I'd missed the last bus I wouldn't want a man stopping for me. It would be different if he was with a woman or his kids but a lone man or a group of men would scare me.


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    #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Speaking as a woman, if I was in a sticky situation late at night, say my car had broken down or I'd missed the last bus I wouldn't want a man stopping for me. It would be different if he was with a woman or his kids but a lone man or a group of men would scare me.

    Exactly. The Irish social perception has shifted dramatically regarding the safety of women regarding male strangers. When I was young, there would have been more trust, but even then, it would have been somewhat dodgy (although then again, there would have been far less women out alone at night, or being drunk without a posse, too)


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    #109
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Speaking as a woman, if I was in a sticky situation late at night, say my car had broken down or I'd missed the last bus I wouldn't want a man stopping for me. It would be different if he was with a woman or his kids but a lone man or a group of men would scare me.

    What a sad existence you must live.

    I needed a hand not so long ago with my jeep...I couldn't push it on my own...within a minute 4 men who were strangers to me saw I needed help and got stuck in...one lad drove me to the nearest garage to get help which was closed, another guy rang his mechanic friend who turned up within the hour and got me back on the road.


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    #110
    Tefral
    Registered Users Posts: 4,318 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    What a sad existence you must live.

    I needed a hand not so long ago with my jeep...I couldn't push it on my own...within a minute 4 men who were strangers to me saw I needed help and got stuck in...one lad drove me to the nearest garage to get help which was closed, another guy rang his mechanic friend who turned up within the hour and got me back on the road.

    Most men would be happy to help out, that's the issue.. The problem is, for every one woman that is ok with this, there's also a woman that isn't.

    Its just easier to stay away unless specifically asked for help.


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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    What a sad existence you must live.

    I needed a hand not so long ago with my jeep...I couldn't push it on my own...within a minute 4 men who were strangers to me saw I needed help and got stuck in...one lad drove me to the nearest garage to get help which was closed, another guy rang his mechanic friend who turned up within the hour and got me back on the road.

    She said "late at night", and I'd consider it to be a reasonable fear. Our demographics have changed, as has the nature of crime/violence in Ireland.

    TBH, as a male, I'd be uncomfortable with any male strangers late at night too.


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    #112
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Tefral wrote: »
    This is certainly a polarising thread.

    I have to say id keep driving too, and I'd be known for the type of fella that would help someone out... I didn't always have this opinion, as id like to think if it were my wife or sisters or my mother someone would help them if they are in any sort of danger, but its gone crazy out there now. People are getting accused of all sorts and unfortunately the way things are going its your guilty until you can prove your innocent these days. Trial by social media has done this.

    Even if you would exonerate yourself there's always the "there's no smoke without fire" people who would never let you forget it. Reputation takes a lifetime to curate but only a second to destroy.

    There's even an article in the times today about women not exercising in public due to males. Everything is stacked against you as a man in helping out and someone turns on you for helping.

    I don't really know what to make of that article in the times. The only solution I can see is to ban men from parks. The author states that men going about their business minding themselves and bothering no one else is intimidating for women, so what can you do?

    The idea mooted here that you have to record yourself to protect yourself from false accusations from the person whom you are helping, says it all I'm afraid. The fact is unfortunately whipping out the phone and filming will make you look like some sort of deviant as well.

    So the question is running through the good samaritans is should I get involved here, should I open myself up to the possibility of dealing with a headcase, should I bring trouble on myself? Vs this individual got themselves in this situation, they have been irresponsible, they are in no huge danger and they will probably be fine.

    We take risks every day, usually to accrue some sort of benefit for ourselves, but even if things go ok, helping out a drunk is going to cost you time, minimum for no benefit.

    The logical choice is always to walk on.


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    #113
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    What a sad existence you must live.

    I needed a hand not so long ago with my jeep...I couldn't push it on my own...within a minute 4 men who were strangers to me saw I needed help and got stuck in...one lad drove me to the nearest garage to get help which was closed, another guy rang his mechanic friend who turned up within the hour and got me back on the road.

    Late at night, on my own with no one else around I would be scared. Its different during the day, its different when other people are around. Its about protecting yourself, same as most men here who wouldn't stop. I've also been on the receiving end of a serious sexual assault and that kind of thing stays with you and makes you nervous in certain situations. I make no apologies for that.


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    #114
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Late at night, on my own with no one else around I would be scared. Its different during the day, its different when other people are around. Its about protecting yourself, same as most men here who wouldn't stop. I've also been on the receiving end of a serious sexual assault and that kind of thing stays with you and makes you nervous in certain situations. I make no apologies for that.

    I'm very sorry to hear that, and I accept that it will have in impact on how you perceive strange men in a late night senario.

    Stopping to help a stranger at night with car trouble is something I wouldn't hesitate to do having experienced it myself, probably something I should avoid if it is a woman.


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    #115
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    I don't really know what to make of that article in the times. The only solution I can see is to ban men from parks. The author states that men going about their business minding themselves and bothering no one else is intimidating for women, so what can you do?

    The idea mooted here that you have to record yourself to protect yourself from false accusations from the person whom you are helping, says it all I'm afraid. The fact is unfortunately whipping out the phone and filming will make you look like some sort of deviant as well.

    So the question is running through the good samaritans is should I get involved here, should I open myself up to the possibility of dealing with a headcase, should I bring trouble on myself? Vs this individual got themselves in this situation, they have been irresponsible, they are in no huge danger and they will probably be fine.

    We take risks every day, usually to accrue some sort of benefit for ourselves, but even if things go ok, helping out a drunk is going to cost you time, minimum for no benefit.

    The logical choice is always to walk on.

    The Times run articles of this nature every week...next week it'll be how Santa Clause is a threat to women or some such...a media company best ignored.


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    #116
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    I'm very sorry to hear that, and I accept that it will have in impact on how you perceive strange men in a late night senario.

    Stopping to help a stranger at night with car trouble is something I wouldn't hesitate to do having experienced it myself, probably something I should avoid if it is a woman.

    You said yourself earlier in the thread that you can understand men not stopping and that it might be the best call when you consider the risk involved and yet a woman who has the same concerns from the other side is living a "sad existence"

    I don't understand the double standard there.


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    #117
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    I think there's a bit of anti-stranger hysteria to be honest.

    You're more likely as a man or a woman to be a victim of crime by a friend/family member/coworker than a stranger. Most women are raped/assaulted by someone they know.

    And the days of serial killers (1970s) are gone. The world in 2020 (despite this year) has been going on an upward trend of being safer in nearly every way.

    Besides, this is Ireland. When is the last time you heard of a woman getting kidnapped.


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    #118
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Besides, this is Ireland. When is the last time you heard of a woman getting kidnapped.

    Sadly not so long ago in Enniskerry, surely you are here long enough to remember that, poor girl

    I still stand by what I said before, any man is opening a can of worms these days trying to help a woman or child for ****s sake, bad white man, lock up all women and children, welcome to 2020 folks, some dose
    Feel sorry for young lads growing up nowadays


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    #119
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You said yourself earlier in the thread that you can understand men not stopping and that it might be the best call when you consider the risk involved and yet a woman who has the same concerns from the other side is living a "sad existence"

    I don't understand the double standard there.

    Stopping to help a drunk woman is madness for any man.

    Stopping to help a motorist who is experiencing problems late at night is not, good chance she is not drunk....it is a risk I'd be willing to make to help a stranger male or female but I guess women should be left alone, I'd hate to think some woman thought of me as a threat!


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    #120
    StevenToast
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    I think there's a bit of anti-stranger hysteria to be honest.

    You're more likely as a man or a woman to be a victim of crime by a friend/family member/coworker than a stranger. Most women are raped/assaulted by someone they know.

    And the days of serial killers (1970s) are gone. The world in 2020 (despite this year) has been going on an upward trend of being safer in nearly every way.

    Besides, this is Ireland. When is the last time you heard of a woman getting kidnapped.

    You know its a good thread when Mr.Feg is a contributor!

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



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    #121
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You said yourself earlier in the thread that you can understand men not stopping and that it might be the best call when you consider the risk involved and yet a woman who has the same concerns from the other side is living a "sad existence"

    I don't understand the double standard there.

    We as a society cannot create a situation where we say to men and women that be on your guard at all times for predators yet at the same time expect people to go out of their way to help others in mild trouble.

    So the next time someone is stuck on the side of the road is wondering why so many are driving on and not helping, or we hear of a drunk person stumbling into traffic and getting hurt and no one intervened we can point to media campaigns and a society generally that has created the environment where the helpers motive is often the first thing questioned.


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