Replay: All Ireland SFC Final Dublin v Kerry Saturday 14/09/2019 @ 6pm

Gael85 wrote: »

Whelan is usually decent on the analysis and good knowledge of modern game. Haven't seen his take on cooper red cars as was at game. Malachy O'Rourke was very good when on TSG a couple weeks ago. Impressed with Rochford too.

I think Whelan offers nothing at all to be honest - would put him behind the other 2 in terms of ability to analyse a game.

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I think Whelan offers nothing at all to be honest - would put him behind the other 2 in terms of ability to analyse a game.

Have to disagree on Whelan. Is well clued into modern systems/tactics, does homework on teams. I heard he didn't cover himself in glory over the last game but he usually on the ball. Spillane offers nothing on analysis, throws a couple scoring averages and pushes his own agenda every week about defensive systems. Completely out of touch with modern game. Brolly knows his stuff but just winds up other pundits and should be given the door.

davegilly wrote: »

...and Connolly was heading off on his hols to the states a few weeks back so can't be anywhere near fit enough to start.

.

So Connolly played no football when he was not on the Dublin panel??

Nope, he'd been training 3/4 times a week with Vincents. The standard of fitness is unreal at Division 1 and 2 level in Dublin and the overall standards are way in excess of what is around the country. Of course, there are certain clubs around the country who are just as good, but the strength in depth is much better.

The leagues play away without the Dublin squad and that tends to even the teams up. There's usually only a few points between getting into the league playoff and going into the relegation playoff.

It's a huge reason why Dublin players improve so much from minor to U20/U21 level as they get exposed to this high level of competition with regular matches.

So, don't worry about Connolly. He's back with the inter-county squad long enough with a strong enough base to have caught up with everyone at this stage, in fitness terms.

As for the ref, all I ask is that he gives the same protection to Con and Mannion as he does to Clifford and the other Kerry forwards. A level playing field and I'm sure Lane will oblige.

Dublin have started poorly in so many games now that it's hard to fathom. Keep getting away with it:
- Meath hit about a dozen first half wides
- Cork took their scores but refused to challenge on our kickouts so let us play us our way back into the game at our leisure
- Mayo took some advantage, but still should have been more ahead at the break
- Kerry missed a sea of chances, not an over-exaggeration to say they left behind a reasonably handy 2-4.

Dubs need to get down to business from the off as I doubt very much Kerry will be as profligate the next time.

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for son.

Correct application of the rules would have seen Kerry get a penalty after 4 mins (Geaneys shot cleared off the line) as Cooper clearly pulled Sean O Shea to the ground - this would also have brought forward Cooper's red card by about 20 mins.

Geaney's missed penalty would have been retaken
John Small would have received a black card to go with his yellow for constantly pulling Stephen O Brien to ground off the ball and thus would have been sent off too.

Jack Mc would have given away a 14 yard free for a foul on Stephen O Brien in the second half and Lyne would have won a free off Connolly at the very end to give Kerry an attacking platform.

Add to that about 10-15 pointless off the ball digs thrown by Michael Darragh and I think the 2/3 questionable frees that you are calling for Dublin to get will be negated.

Refs make mistakes - both teams usually benefit and suffer for them in the same match

Wow "dad", that's quite the litany.

So going by your amazing rulebook, how many penalties should Dublin have had? How many cards and what colour for O'Sullivan and Morley?

What colour card should Sean O'Shea have received for the tackle across the neck and head of Paddy Small right at the end?

And regardless, for the replay, if Con and Mannion get equal (not asking for any favours) protection, then I'll be happy. Even playing field, and may the best team on the day prevail.

The Rooster wrote: »

Wow "dad", that's quite the litany.

So going by your amazing rulebook, how many penalties should Dublin have had? How many cards and what colour for O'Sullivan and Morley?

What colour card should Sean O'Shea have received for the tackle across the neck and head of Paddy Small right at the end?

And regardless, for the replay, if Con and Mannion get equal (not asking for any favours) protection, then I'll be happy. Even playing field, and may the best team on the day prevail.

O'Shea could have seen red for that tackle if interpreted as putting a player at risk (rules 5.17 or 5.28). He would have missed the replay.

We never saw a replay of the clash that led to John Small leaving the field as it led directly to the Kerry goal. There is a bit of history for Dublin with goalkeepers with Niall Morgan breaking Paddy Andrews jaw and no free. A free on that occasion would have been a tapover putting six points between the teams. I am sure there will be many to say it happened in front of them and was purely accidental.

At least two examples of Kerry players picking the ball up. A Dublin player was pinged for that, but not Kerry.

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Morley didnt warrant any card- give me a clear example of where?
Sean O Shea - yellow card as small ducked into the tackle
O Sullivan - got a ticking as per the rules - next foul was red.

What I am saying is that you cant have selective application of the rules - the ref made mistakes for both teams and if you want them all rectified then theres a good chance that Dublin may have come off worse on the first day.

How many penalties should Dublin have had? None from my record but am open to suggestions

Not sure what you're getting at.

I made no reference to the first game.

All I said is I hope Mannion and Con get the same protection as Clifford and the Kerry forwards in the replay.

You then selectively picked out 6 moans. I was wondering in my reply whether you noted all the Kerry near-fouls or fouls as well!! But it seems the ref only missed one Kerry card and no Dublin penalties while he missed half dozen Dublin cards and a couple of penalties. :P

Anyway, on to the replay. No moaning. Up the Dubs, but if Kerry are good enough to win, then hearty congrats to them!

blanch152 wrote: »

O'Shea could have seen red for that tackle if interpreted as putting a player at risk (rules 5.17 or 5.28). He would have missed the replay.

We never saw a replay of the clash that led to John Small leaving the field as it led directly to the Kerry goal. There is a bit of history for Dublin with goalkeepers with Niall Morgan breaking Paddy Andrews jaw and no free. A free on that occasion would have been a tapover putting six points between the teams. I am sure there will be many to say it happened in front of them and was purely accidental.

At least two examples of Kerry players picking the ball up. A Dublin player was pinged for that, but not Kerry.

The Kerry keeper caught Small in the head. The angle was too far to know whether it was deliberate or accidental.

Can't understand at all how Small ended up with blood on his hand/arm. While there was no replay, I did rewind my recording of it. And while the angle is not great, I can't see any contact with Small's arm/hand.

The Rooster wrote: »

The Kerry keeper caught Small in the head. The angle was too far to know whether it was deliberate or accidental.

Can't understand at all how Small ended up with blood on his hand/arm. While there was no replay, I did rewind my recording of it. And while the angle is not great, I can't see any contact with Small's arm/hand.

The Rooster wrote: »

That's a pretty pathetic attempt, is it not?

Would you be so kind as to put into words what was wrong with me saying that it was impossible to know from the TV angle whether the collision was accidental or deliberate?

Looking for an incident when there seems to be nothing at all

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

O Shea's was up for debate but I'd imagine the fact that Small ducked into the challenge led to ref to stay on the side of leniency which I think is reasonable.

The second point above-noone saw as you mentioned so it's completely hypothetical and we have to trust the officials that nothing happened.
I ddidnt see Dublin appeal for anything, did you?

From a Dublin perspective, we have had to trust the officials that nothing happened when Paddy Andrews jaw was broken in a clash with Niall Morgan, so you can understand the query.

corny wrote: »

There might be method in that though when you see how they're finishing games. They were ravenous in the last 10 minutes against Kerry.

I'm sure they know the capabilities of the players and at what point (kms covered for example) performance might suffer. Maybe the slow start, where movement is slack in the forwards and defenders are slow to close down, is a way of ensuring players are still able to go full tilt when the game hits the crucial minutes. Personally I find that more plausible than player apathy or a lack of focus as reasons to explain the slow starts.

Perhaps you're right. I can't imagine we deliberately start slowly. But silly mistakes like Cooper being caught in possession, McCarthy being caught in possession, Kilkenny misdirecting a short handpass (all resulting in careless turnovers early on certainly helped Kerry get a platform and should have seen them take a commanding lead) should be easy to cut out without impacting the last quarter.

Well whatever the reason, I'm hoping for a better start next time.

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

But then we are more or less in agreement!

Yep. I made no complaints about Gough!

Bemused by some of the responses I got, especially from the other lad who clearly didn't read my posts properly.

The Rooster wrote: »

Yep. I made no complaints about Gough!

Bemused by some of the responses I got, especially from the other lad who clearly didn't read my posts properly.

But sure your original point was that Con & Mannion didnt get the protection that Clifford did- that's a complaint about Gough

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Anything that happens cant technically be deemed to be nothing at all but in the context of foul play or misdemeanors committed then it was nothing at all - noone from Dublin even appealed for anything and there seemed to be absolutely nothing in it - Small didnt even appeal and he literally gives it the pained face appeal to every incident he is involved in.

As I said by even raising that as an issue - you are clutching

Jeez Louise!

Did I raise the issue? Really? Did I say it was foul?

Did you actually even see the incident?

Small was lying in a heap, he immediately raised his hand to seek attention. He was unable to continue. Are suggesting he was faking it?

After the goal went in two Dublin players went straight to Gough. Not that complaining means anything. There's probably nobody other than the keeper himself who could say whether it was accidental or intentional. Would be very difficult for Gough to give anything given he was a good distance from it. Umpire didn't budge, but umpires are umpires.

Again, you're trying to get contrary about nothing.

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Your the fella who can't understand English. You seem to have a problem comprehending your own posts. Your nothing but a moaner.

Good boy. Keep up the lessons, you've a bit to go.

Poor ol gill will be here along shortly with another post you can thank! You're pure deadly at that.

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Gaelic football is a contact sport. If you can't handle that why don't you just toddle off somewhere else like a good little boy

You're some moaner. Everyone else here trying to give their views, but all you can contribute is whinging.

Have you an actual point to make, or are you just going to keep up with the moaning?

The Rooster wrote: »

Again, if you want to quote a post of mine where I complained about Gough please do.

If you want to quote a post of mine where I said Small was fouled, please do.

Otherwise, leave it alone and move on, and stop trying to make arguments where there are none. Leave the nonsense to the other lad.

You said that you hoped that Con & Mannion got the same protection as Clifford in the replay - this clearly implies that you think that they didnt the first day out (that's fairly clear).

You have raised the issue of the challenge on Small and said that you have watched it back but cant be sure whether there was foul play or not - clearly raising and issue and hypothesizing that something may have occurred when you then later state that it was nothing while also stating that it wasn't nothing.

You're going in circles to be fair and all I'm doing is pointing that out.

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

You said that you hoped that Con & Mannion got the same protection as Clifford in the replay - this clearly implies that you think that they didnt the first day out (that's fairly clear).

You have raised the issue of the challenge on Small and said that you have watched it back but cant be sure whether there was foul play or not - clearly raising and issue and hypothesizing that something may have occurred when you then later state that it was nothing while also stating that it wasn't nothing.

You're going in circles to be fair and all I'm doing is pointing that out.

So you can't quote anything that backs up what you say. Just re-phrasing stuff to suit your agenda and imagining what I must have been thinking based on your own prejudices!

If you want to reply to direct posts from me, using my actual words and whole posts please do. Otherwise let's move on. The replay thread doesn't mean you keep putting up strawmen and keep knocking them over. The quare fella will keep thanking you for it, but the rest of board must find it quite tedious.

How about we talk about the actual replay...