The Healy Raes

SlowMotion321 · 25-07-2020 1:13pm

Edgware wrote: »

The pair got 25000 No 1s out of a 78000 poll. Not a bad hard core. Although Danny was about 7000 behind the "smarter" brother. They also "deliver" for their constituents and indeed are known to represent people outside Kerry who are getting nowhere with their own T.D.s

Indeed! The family motto being "If the cash is there, we do not care!"

SlowBlowin · 25-07-2020 4:23pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

People don’t understand what a TD is and what a councillor is. They vote in Healy Rae based on work a councillor should be doing

Ignorance of the Irish political system is the biggest issue

100% Agree with what you said, some people are ignorant of the local work all TDs do.

Heres the official line from https://www.citizensinformation.ie/ :

The work of a TD locally
TDs have both national and local roles. As your local representative, a TD can ask questions in the Dáil or raise issues that are important to you or your local area. Most TDs have constituency clinics, where you can meet them and discuss issues that might then be raised in the Dáil or in PQs.

Some people think that just because a TD does a great job locally, they are somehow bad !

Shefwedfan · 25-07-2020 4:28pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

100% Agree with what you said, some people are ignorant of the local work all TDs do.

Heres the official line from https://www.citizensinformation.ie/ :

The work of a TD locally
TDs have both national and local roles. As your local representative, a TD can ask questions in the Dáil or raise issues that are important to you or your local area. Most TDs have constituency clinics, where you can meet them and discuss issues that might then be raised in the Dáil or in PQs.

Some people think that just because a TD does a great job locally, they are somehow bad !

So health care is not important in your area?

Drinking pints in middle of day is?

They do a councillors job locally, what exactly are the local Healy Rae councillors doing?

jetsonx · 25-07-2020 4:35pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Some people think that just because a TD does a great job locally, they are somehow bad !

Exactly. The truth of the matter here is that very very few people in "normal jobs" would take on the work the Healy Raes have taken on and complete it successfully. People may complain that it's parish pump politics but their is their job. The Healy Raes never let on to be anything else. There is a certain honesty to that.

The Healy Raes are just easy targets because of their high-visibility. As politicians go, there is a lot worse out there. I guarantee you.

SlowBlowin · 25-07-2020 4:38pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So health care is not important in your area?

Come on.... even you know how committed HR is to healthcare.

Reminds me of the Monty Python, what have the Romans done for us ? Ohh he campaigns at a national level for increases in beds etc, ohh and he lays on buses for his constituents (and others) to get treatment... But apart for the national campaigning, and the private buses, what has he done ?

SlowMotion321 · 25-07-2020 5:21pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

^^^^^Are we related?

boardise · 25-07-2020 5:26pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Exactly. The truth of the matter here is that very very few people in "normal jobs" would take on the work the Healy Raes have taken on and complete it successfully. People may complain that it's parish pump politics but their is their job. The Healy Raes never let on to be anything else. There is a certain honesty to that.

The Healy Raes are just easy targets because of their high-visibility. As politicians go, there is a lot worse out there. I guarantee you.

Hype Raes indeed.

TaurenDruid · 25-07-2020 5:37pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Come on.... even you know how committed HR is to healthcare.

Reminds me of the Monty Python, what have the Romans done for us ? Ohh he campaigns at a national level for increases in beds etc, ohh and he lays on buses for his constituents (and others) to get treatment... But apart for the national campaigning, and the private buses, what has he done ?

The difference being, in the Monty Python sketch, the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, fresh-water system, and public health are all absent and get provided by the Romans.

The Healy-Raes lay on private buses for treatment that's already available to everyone.

If they genuinely gave a **** about their constituents instead of just their votes, they might actually be up in the Dáil, asking why it is that their constituents need to go to Norn' Iron for treatment, while Norn' Iron citizens come down here for the same treatment.

But if that all got sorted, they'd lose clients, so...

I wonder will Brexit feck that up for them?

Edgware · 25-07-2020 5:53pm

As a matter of interest they are not the Healy Raes. They are the Healys Rae

SlowBlowin · 25-07-2020 6:42pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

The difference being, in the Monty Python sketch, the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, fresh-water system, and public health are all absent and get provided by the Romans.

The Healy-Raes lay on private buses for treatment that's already available to everyone.

If they genuinely gave a **** about their constituents instead of just their votes, they might actually be up in the Dáil, asking why it is that their constituents need to go to Norn' Iron for treatment, while Norn' Iron citizens come down here for the same treatment.

But if that all got sorted, they'd lose clients, so...

I wonder will Brexit feck that up for them?

Interesting read for you:

https://www.medicalindependent.ie/putting-the-politics-into-health/

Rows Grower · 25-07-2020 7:00pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Interesting read for you:

https://www.medicalindependent.ie/putting-the-politics-into-health/

What a knock out!

TaurenDruid · 25-07-2020 7:28pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Interesting read for you:

https://www.medicalindependent.ie/putting-the-politics-into-health/

Yeah. "It's grand, I can skip the queue, sure I know a TD." You do know this isn't a good thing? All the people they Healy-Raes skip get their own wait extended, like?

And the time and effort wasted answering those PQs takes up resources, too...

TaurenDruid · 25-07-2020 7:36pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

What a knock out!

"We have facilities here in our hospitals and they are operating for four, five, six hours a day. Operate the damn things for 10, 12 hours a day. Why should we be giving money to a hospital in the north — and I am appreciative of what they do — when we could do them here… our archaic system of operating dictates that it is like we are in slow motion.”

Well, Michael, that'd be because they cost money to operate, but we're paying admin staff to answer PQs instead of surgeons and theatre nurses...

SlowBlowin · 25-07-2020 7:36pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Yeah. "It's grand, I can skip the queue, sure I know a TD." You do know this isn't a good thing? All the people they Healy-Raes skip get their own wait extended, like?

This has been discussed before in this thread, no queue skipping, as you said your very self, its something they are entitled to.

TaurenDruid wrote: »

And the time and effort wasted answering those PQs takes up resources, too...

You do remember you post earlier saying they didn't ask enough questions, which is it - not enough or too many ??

SlowBlowin · 25-07-2020 7:42pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

"We have facilities here in our hospitals and they are operating for four, five, six hours a day. Operate the damn things for 10, 12 hours a day. Why should we be giving money to a hospital in the north — and I am appreciative of what they do — when we could do them here… our archaic system of operating dictates that it is like we are in slow motion.”

Well, Michael, that'd be because they cost money to operate, but we're paying admin staff to answer PQs instead of surgeons and theatre nurses...

How on earth do you have the balls to say that when you said this earlier ?

"If they genuinely gave a **** about their constituents instead of just their votes, they might actually be up in the Dáil, asking why it is that their constituents need to go to Norn' Iron for treatment, while Norn' Iron citizens come down here for the same treatment."

You cant debate logically when you make a 180 degree turn in your argument like that, its so random..

Rows Grower · 25-07-2020 7:42pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

"We have facilities here in our hospitals and they are operating for four, five, six hours a day. Operate the damn things for 10, 12 hours a day. Why should we be giving money to a hospital in the north — and I am appreciative of what they do — when we could do them here… our archaic system of operating dictates that it is like we are in slow motion.”

Well, Michael, that'd be because they cost money to operate, but we're paying admin staff to answer PQs instead of surgeons and theatre nurses...

You're out of your depth here lad, you thought you had nothing to do but play to the crowd by making a few smart comments and you got your ass handed to you on a plate.

Toddle on.

Shefwedfan · 25-07-2020 8:11pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

What a knock out!

How is that a knock out?

He is playing to the crowd

Instead of bumping one person up the list they should be helping fix the entire HSE, fact is they are not. They are part of the problem. Draining tax money into their own pockets and not helping at all with critical issues in Ireland

Only a Healy Rae supporter would think that Bs is a knock out.... f**king waste of spaces the pair of them in Dail

jetsonx · 25-07-2020 8:27pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How is that a knock out?

Instead of bumping one person up the list they should be helping fix the entire HSE, fact is they are not. They are part of the problem. Draining tax money into their own pockets and not helping at all with critical issues in Ireland

But that's like saying the General Manager of McDonalds in Ireland should be helping sort out the issues of McDonalds Inc Worldwide. He / she is not because it's not their job. Their job is look after the territory in Ireland. In the same way, the Healy Rae clan are looking after their territory in Kerry.

SlowBlowin · 25-07-2020 8:29pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How is that a knock out?

He is playing to the crowd

Instead of bumping one person up the list they should be helping fix the entire HSE, fact is they are not. They are part of the problem. Draining tax money into their own pockets and not helping at all with critical issues in Ireland

Only a Healy Rae supporter would think that Bs is a knock out.... f**king waste of spaces the pair of them in Dail

Trouble is you wont listen or indeed read, both of which I would have thought were a prerequisite for your degree ?

The comment "Hes playing to the crowd" is such a cop out, so you can dismiss anything he says of indeed does.

Hes not bumping anyone up, this was discussed before, hes helping people get treatment.

How is he not questioning the HSE when hes asked more questions of the health minster than any other TD ?

I dont think your mind can be changed by any combination of facts and logic, you dismiss both.

Rows Grower · 25-07-2020 8:52pm

All politics is local.

That's something that Mehall and Leo learned at the last election when they barely scraped in on the 5th and 6th count.

TaurenDruid · 26-07-2020 11:46am

SlowBlowin wrote: »

How on earth do you have the balls to say that when you said this earlier ?

"If they genuinely gave a **** about their constituents instead of just their votes, they might actually be up in the Dáil, asking why it is that their constituents need to go to Norn' Iron for treatment, while Norn' Iron citizens come down here for the same treatment."

You cant debate logically when you make a 180 degree turn in your argument like that, its so random..

I don't want to get personal. But reading comprehension might not be your strong point.

There's a world of difference between "To ask the Minister why X hospital only carried out Y operations of Z type last year, can the number be increased, what barriers there might be to such an increase, can they be addressed if Sláintecare was fully implemented, and if he will make a statement on the matter." and "To ask the Minister if he is aware of the case of person X [details supplied] who is waiting on operation Y and can their operation be expedited, because they're suffering far more than every single other person on the list, I've checked, and the clinicians are obviously wrong, I know this because I'm a business owner."

Shefwedfan · 26-07-2020 11:49am

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Trouble is you wont listen or indeed read, both of which I would have thought were a prerequisite for your degree ?

The comment "Hes playing to the crowd" is such a cop out, so you can dismiss anything he says of indeed does.

Hes not bumping anyone up, this was discussed before, hes helping people get treatment.

How is he not questioning the HSE when hes asked more questions of the health minster than any other TD ?

I dont think your mind can be changed by any combination of facts and logic, you dismiss both.

What have the Healy Rae family done in all the years they have been voted in to resolve the HSE or any issue?

TaurenDruid · 26-07-2020 11:50am

jetsonx wrote: »

But that's like saying the General Manager of McDonalds in Ireland should be helping sort out the issues of McDonalds Inc Worldwide. He / she is not because it's not their job. Their job is look after the territory in Ireland. In the same way, the Healy Rae clan are looking after their territory in Kerry.

Looking after "their territory"? They're not supposed to be feudal lords. I mean, they obviously think they are, and are treated as such by their constituents, who are only delighted to receive the largesse that falls form their lords' tables.

But if we're talking about "their territory in Kerry", that's the job of county councillors, the vast majority of the time, except every so often when a huge national plan such as the spatial strategy or Climate Action Plan is developed. Although Danny doesn't believe in climate change, so may be behind the curve there...

Shefwedfan · 26-07-2020 11:53am

I glad everyone is so happy to vote in a TD to do f**k all ....then go around every other thread complaining about every other political party....if you want to waste your vote, no problem but then you shouldn’t be complaining about any party trying to fix those issues.

SlowBlowin · 26-07-2020 11:56am

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I don't want to get personal. But reading comprehension might not be your strong point.

There's a world of difference between "To ask the Minister why X hospital only carried out Y operations of Z type last year, can the number be increased, what barriers there might be to such an increase, can they be addressed if Sláintecare was fully implemented, and if he will make a statement on the matter." and "To ask the Minister if he is aware of the case of person X [details supplied] who is waiting on operation Y and can their operation be expedited, because they're suffering far more than every single other person on the list, I've checked, and the clinicians are obviously wrong, I know this because I'm a business owner."

Only in your mind, think about it a bit more.

SlowBlowin · 26-07-2020 11:58am

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Looking after "their territory"? They're not supposed to be feudal lords. I mean, they obviously think they are, and are treated as such by their constituents, who are only delighted to receive the largesse that falls form their lords' tables.

But if we're talking about "their territory in Kerry", that's the job of county councillors, the vast majority of the time, except every so often when a huge national plan such as the spatial strategy or Climate Action Plan is developed. Although Danny doesn't believe in climate change, so may be behind the curve there...

Very immature line of argument, picking on the use of the word territory.

Shefwedfan · 26-07-2020 12:00pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

All politics is local.

That's something that Mehall and Leo learned at the last election when they barely scraped in on the 5th and 6th count.

Still done more in a day for Ireland than the Healy Rae have down in how many years

SlowBlowin · 26-07-2020 12:01pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I don't want to get personal. But reading comprehension might not be your strong point.

There's a world of difference between "To ask the Minister why X hospital only carried out Y operations of Z type last year, can the number be increased, what barriers there might be to such an increase, can they be addressed if Sláintecare was fully implemented, and if he will make a statement on the matter." and "To ask the Minister if he is aware of the case of person X [details supplied] who is waiting on operation Y and can their operation be expedited, because they're suffering far more than every single other person on the list, I've checked, and the clinicians are obviously wrong, I know this because I'm a business owner."

Look, you talked rubbish, and you were proved wrong, now you decide to get personal (your words), very immature behaviour. Its not a playground grow up.

Edgware · 26-07-2020 12:02pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

All politics is local.

That's something that Mehall and Leo learned at the last election when they barely scraped in on the 5th and 6th count.

20000 votes for Martin and his colleague is hardly scraping in and delivered 2 seats and ultimately Taoiseach. The fishwife refused to have a running mate in case she lost the poll topper headline

Rows Grower · 26-07-2020 12:05pm

Poor ol' tauren and sheffield furiously trying to make a case that they are right and everyone who believes the Healy Rae's are good politicians are Wrong, wrong, wrong!

They're like two blind men trying to do a radio commentary on a horse race, not a clue between them.

TaurenDruid · 26-07-2020 12:08pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Only in your mind, think about it a bit more.

Thought about it a bit more.

"Can you fix the health service so more operations are carried out, for everyone's benefit."

versus

"Can you get Mary an operation sooner, cos she's my constituent?"

Mary is 100th on the list and they do 5 of Mary's type of operation a day, so - after all the bureaucracy and waste of resources involved in writing to consultants and hospital management results in a decision from the consultant that she can't be arsed dealing with more H-R post, it's slowing down her work, fine, move Mary up to 1st on the list. There are another 9 H-R letters in, too. They all get bumped up.

Paddy-Joe, who would never dream of skipping his turn, was due to get his operation on the 1st of the month. He gets a letter saying his letter has been postponed to the 3rd.

Multiply out by all the letters and phone calls and PQs Meehawl and Danny are writing and it's not a day or two, it's months.

Yeah, not changing my mind...

MayoAreMagic · 26-07-2020 12:12pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

All politics is local.

That's something that Mehall and Leo learned at the last election when they barely scraped in on the 5th and 6th count.

It is a nice quip that gets used a lot, but im not sure it's actually true. Obviously if you get the taoiseach role, you have more to consider than potholes in your town.
If there was a vote tomorrow, would Leo fare better or worse? We both know the answer is better, and that is down to actions carried out on a national scale, so no, all politics are not local.

What is true is that it is possible to play the system by rabidly and unashamedly directing national funds to your own neck of the woods. Then, if you are really and truely brazen, you can direct the works to your own companies and actually keep the lions share of the money yourself.
Personally I wouldnt call that politics, Id call it a scam.

Rows Grower · 26-07-2020 12:17pm

Edgware wrote: »

20000 votes for Martin and his colleague is hardly scraping in and delivered 2 seats and ultimately Taoiseach. The fishwife refused to have a running mate in case she lost the poll topper headline

Its disingenuous to give Mehall credit for Micheal McGraths votes and include them as votes of support for Mehall which they clearly were not.

He scraped in on the sixth count with the full financial support and backing of one of the biggest political parties in the state of which he was leader.

Rows Grower · 26-07-2020 12:21pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is a nice quip that gets used a lot, but im not sure it's actually true. Obviously if you get the taoiseach role, you have more to consider than potholes in your town.
If there was a vote tomorrow, would Leo fare better or worse? We both know the answer is better, and that is down to actions carried out on a national scale, so no, all politics are not local.

What is true is that it is possible to play the system by rabidly and unashamedly directing national funds to your own neck of the woods. Then, if you are really and truely brazen, you can direct the works to your own companies and actually keep the lions share of the money yourself.
Personally I wouldnt call that politics, Id call it a scam.

You can call it what you want, that doesn't mean you're right.

A scam is an illegal activity and if you have any evidence of one being operated by any politician you should report it.

SlowBlowin · 26-07-2020 12:42pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Thought about it a bit more.

"Can you fix the health service so more operations are carried out, for everyone's benefit."

versus

"Can you get Mary an operation sooner, cos she's my constituent?"

Mary is 100th on the list and they do 5 of Mary's type of operation a day, so - after all the bureaucracy and waste of resources involved in writing to consultants and hospital management results in a decision from the consultant that she can't be arsed dealing with more H-R post, it's slowing down her work, fine, move Mary up to 1st on the list. There are another 9 H-R letters in, too. They all get bumped up.

Paddy-Joe, who would never dream of skipping his turn, was due to get his operation on the 1st of the month. He gets a letter saying his letter has been postponed to the 3rd.

Multiply out by all the letters and phone calls and PQs Meehawl and Danny are writing and it's not a day or two, it's months.

Yeah, not changing my mind...

What a load of pedantic bollox.

If you complain about something is it not logical to make reference to the actual data that is causing the issue ?

If your mum bought a new Nissan car and the MPG was really bad, would you go in the dealership and say "I think Nissan should improve the MPG of their cars" or would you say "My mum bought a car from you and its getting really bad MPG, whats going on" ?

You dont seem to grasp that by drawing attention to real world cases, in bulk, in front of cameras, MHR is making more of a point than asking a simple question, not backed up by real information.

Thats fine, thats just the way you think, but I would always make a point backed up by real world data, it has more impact and relevance.

I think it bizarre that people criticise MHR for asking the question and quoting the actual case. Your preferred route would be to generalise the question and not quote specifics ??? How is that better ???

ExMachina1000 · 26-07-2020 12:48pm

I would prefer to have the Healy raes representing my interests than the useless parasites in my area.

SlowBlowin · 26-07-2020 1:06pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Thought about it a bit more.

"Can you fix the health service so more operations are carried out, for everyone's benefit."

versus

"Can you get Mary an operation sooner, cos she's my constituent?"

Mary is 100th on the list and they do 5 of Mary's type of operation a day, so - after all the bureaucracy and waste of resources involved in writing to consultants and hospital management results in a decision from the consultant that she can't be arsed dealing with more H-R post, it's slowing down her work, fine, move Mary up to 1st on the list. There are another 9 H-R letters in, too. They all get bumped up.

Paddy-Joe, who would never dream of skipping his turn, was due to get his operation on the 1st of the month. He gets a letter saying his letter has been postponed to the 3rd.

Multiply out by all the letters and phone calls and PQs Meehawl and Danny are writing and it's not a day or two, it's months.

Yeah, not changing my mind...

Can you watch this then continue with your argument.

https://www.facebook.com/MHealyRaeTD/videos/279650666630703/

SlowBlowin · 26-07-2020 1:19pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Yeah, not changing my mind...

If you have watched the video can you comment ?

Remember your stance in this argument is that MHR does not ask questions about the performance of the National Health service.

Edgware · 26-07-2020 2:11pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Its disingenuous to give Mehall credit for Micheal McGraths votes and include them as votes of support for Mehall which they clearly were not.

He scraped in on the sixth count with the full financial support and backing of one of the biggest political parties in the state of which he was leader.

The idea is to run the number of candidates to maximise your party vote resulting in max seats. S.F. showed their ignorance of the system that they left several seats behind them. The fishwife and more had enough surplus to win extra seats. At least O Broin had the courage to have a running mate and with good vote management got the second seat.
The fishwife was playing best girl in the school yard and wasted her surplus

MayoAreMagic · 26-07-2020 4:46pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

You can call it what you want, that doesn't mean you're right.

A scam is an illegal activity and if you have any evidence of one being operated by any politician you should report it.

It doesnt mean I am wrong either, so what does your response prove exactly?

A scam is not an illegal activity, it is actually defined as a dishonest scheme. There are plenty scams that are within the remit of the law.

Even if it was illegal, why cant we discuss it here, without my reporting them to the authorities first? That sounds like an attempt to shut down a discussion to be honest about it.

The reality is, they are frauding the system and basically bribing those who can vote them out so that it can continue. While I know politicians need to look after their constituents, the way they are funnelling the funds into their own pockets is a bit of a disgrace and it simply shouldnt be possible. That is a scam, legal or otherwise.

SlowBlowin · 26-07-2020 5:26pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It doesnt mean I am wrong either, so what does your response prove exactly?

A scam is not an illegal activity, it is actually defined as a dishonest scheme. There are plenty scams that are within the remit of the law.

Even if it was illegal, why cant we discuss it here, without my reporting them to the authorities first? That sounds like an attempt to shut down a discussion to be honest about it.

The reality is, they are frauding the system and basically bribing those who can vote them out so that it can continue. While I know politicians need to look after their constituents, the way they are funnelling the funds into their own pockets is a bit of a disgrace and it simply shouldnt be possible. That is a scam, legal or otherwise.

I think the only way to achieve your ideals is to not allow TDs to be involved in any business/organisation that can financially benefit from government policy.

Shefwedfan · 26-07-2020 5:38pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

You can call it what you want, that doesn't mean you're right.

A scam is an illegal activity and if you have any evidence of one being operated by any politician you should report it.

Yes a scam, like the mileage claim submitted by both Healy Rae with the exact same mileage.

Getting expenses for been at Dail while at a funeral in Kerry

Danny hiding money from tax man for the pub

The road company run by Healy Rae which has been given millions while Kerry CO co got worst rating in Ireland for corruptions.

The list goes on

For all the talk of the great politicians they are, not doing much when they are never in Dail. Scam is the exact phrase I would use

Shefwedfan · 26-07-2020 5:40pm

So for all the people raving about the Healy Rae. Let’s say every person in Ireland votes in a Healy Rae or equivalent to represent them in the Dail. An independent that does nothing at a national level

So please tell me how is that going to work?

If they all have the same attendance rate as the Healy Rae would we even need a Dail?

Donald Trump · 26-07-2020 8:14pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

What a load of pedantic bollox.

If you complain about something is it not logical to make reference to the actual data that is causing the issue ?

If your mum bought a new Nissan car and the MPG was really bad, would you go in the dealership and say "I think Nissan should improve the MPG of their cars" or would you say "My mum bought a car from you and its getting really bad MPG, whats going on" ?

You dont seem to grasp that by drawing attention to real world cases, in bulk, in front of cameras, MHR is making more of a point than asking a simple question, not backed up by real information.

Thats fine, thats just the way you think, but I would always make a point backed up by real world data, it has more impact and relevance.

I think it bizarre that people criticise MHR for asking the question and quoting the actual case. Your preferred route would be to generalise the question and not quote specifics ??? How is that better ???

"The prisoners dilemma" is a simple and easy to understand example in game theory of how individuals acting solely on their own narrow self interest leads them all to having a less optimal outcome than if they actually cooperated.

To put some figures on an example, suppose you can make a decision tomorrow and your other half can also make a decision. Both of you rationally choose what will maximize your return based solely on what decision you control of. You end up in an equilibrium where you get 70 Euro and your other half ends up with 80 Euro.

But suppose you could coordinate and cooperate, then you could both end up with 100 Euro. But you don't and so, by choosing the selfish option to maximize your own outcome, you both end up with less

That is what happens as a result of parish pump politics.

Rows Grower · 26-07-2020 8:20pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It doesnt mean I am wrong either, so what does your response prove exactly?

A scam is not an illegal activity, it is actually defined as a dishonest scheme. There are plenty scams that are within the remit of the law.

Even if it was illegal, why cant we discuss it here, without my reporting them to the authorities first? That sounds like an attempt to shut down a discussion to be honest about it.

The reality is, they are frauding the system and basically bribing those who can vote them out so that it can continue. While I know politicians need to look after their constituents, the way they are funnelling the funds into their own pockets is a bit of a disgrace and it simply shouldnt be possible. That is a scam, legal or otherwise.

Ah c'mere, don't be such a drama queen for the love of God.

There's no one trying to "shut down a discussion", you're making allegations of wrongdoing by people in public office and i'm suggesting if you have any proof then you should report it.

That's an actual discussion, whether you like it or not. Just because people don't agree with your wild allegations doesn't mean they are trying to censor you.

Would ya go away and cop yourself on with your ol' rubbish talk of fraud, bribes and funnelling funds into their own pockets.

Rows Grower · 26-07-2020 8:24pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

"The prisoners dilemma" is a simple and easy to understand example in game theory of how individuals acting solely on their own narrow self interest leads them all to having a less optimal outcome than if they actually cooperated.

To put some figures on an example, suppose you can make a decision tomorrow and your other half can also make a decision. Both of you rationally choose what will maximize your return based solely on what decision you control of. You end up in an equilibrium where you get 70 Euro and your other half ends up with 80 Euro.

But suppose you could coordinate and cooperate, then you could both end up with 100 Euro. But you don't and so, by choosing the selfish option to maximize your own outcome, you both end up with less

That is what happens as a result of parish pump politics.

What

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SlowBlowin · 26-07-2020 8:52pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

"The prisoners dilemma" is a simple and easy to understand example in game theory of how individuals acting solely on their own narrow self interest leads them all to having a less optimal outcome than if they actually cooperated.

To put some figures on an example, suppose you can make a decision tomorrow and your other half can also make a decision. Both of you rationally choose what will maximize your return based solely on what decision you control of. You end up in an equilibrium where you get 70 Euro and your other half ends up with 80 Euro.

But suppose you could coordinate and cooperate, then you could both end up with 100 Euro. But you don't and so, by choosing the selfish option to maximize your own outcome, you both end up with less

That is what happens as a result of parish pump politics.

In your analogy I am assuming one of the "prisoners" is MHR, his admin staff, and all his constituents (who attend his clinics).

Do I assume the other prisoner is the rest of the country (minus Kerry), the Dail ?

If this is the analogy, how does the video link I posted earlier fit in with this theory ?

Donald Trump · 26-07-2020 9:31pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

In your analogy I am assuming one of the "prisoners" is MHR, his admin staff, and all his constituents (who attend his clinics).

Do I assume the other prisoner is the rest of the country (minus Kerry), the Dail ?

If this is the analogy, how does the video link I posted earlier fit in with this theory ?

Which video? The one about Michael Healy Rae claiming that he is organising for people to go up the North for operations?

That is a national scheme. It is not something that he is doing off his own bat. He might like the local yokels to think he is the one doing it and be eternally grateful to him for "giving" them something that is theirs by right anyway.

My post was in response to someone more or less saying how they'd be glad that MHR was representing them as long as he was going to get them bumped up a list (at the expense of others). If everyone follows that same principle, then you are left with an overall solution which is not optimum for everyone, and possibly not even optimum for anyone.

Donald Trump · 26-07-2020 9:38pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

What

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Don't worry. I wasn't expecting everyone to understand it. You can read a little bit here if you want.

The example on that page of doping in sport is one that people might be able to relate to a little easier. The idea for that one is that if doping is available in sport, then an athlete trying to gain an advantage will take the drug. But then more and more have to take it in order to try to compete with the dopers. It eventually ends up that all competitors need to take it. Therefore there is no longer any advantage to any competitor....but they are now all taking drugs that could harm them.

Parish-pump politics is the same. Everyone wants their own local fella to look after them. Then because some people are getting skipped up the queue, everyone else has to go to their local fella. But in reality, once everyone is doing it then there is no advantage anymore. You are just now left with a worse system.

MayoAreMagic · 26-07-2020 9:39pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Ah c'mere, don't be such a drama queen for the love of God.

There's no one trying to "shut down a discussion", you're making allegations of wrongdoing by people in public office and i'm suggesting if you have any proof then you should report it.

That's an actual discussion, whether you like it or not. Just because people don't agree with your wild allegations doesn't mean they are trying to censor you.

Would ya go away and cop yourself on with your ol' rubbish talk of fraud, bribes and funnelling funds into their own pockets.

Ah here, ah cmere, drame queen, would you go away, go and report it zzzzzzz
Spare us all that tired old stuff. If that is all you have to add then you have nothing to add.
We both know that what I am saying is true.

The Healy Raes

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