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NFL Protest Discussion

1234568

Comments

  • #352
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    What did Brees say that was so bad? He has a reverence to the flag (that I personally don't agree with), to him it reminds him of those that fought/died in WW2, those that fought for civil rights, ....... so he sees kneeling to the flag as disrespectful to those (I don't agree with him).

    For Malcolm Jenkins to say Bress is the problem and telling him to shut the f*** up, is a pile of crap though. It's the kind of reaction that'll push people like Bress, who just don't want the flag disrespected, away from the cause. Racist people/cops/etc are the problem, not Brees.

    So you might say Bress isn't listening to the real problem that Jenkins has. Well, Jenkins isn't listening either, just telling Brees to shut the f*** up. Can't Brees be against racism and against what he sees as disrespecting something meaningful to him? That OTT reaction is why you get Donald Trump in power. The extreme left type reaction, pushing those on the left/center away.

    I don't agree with Brees on the flag, but I also don't see him as the problem. His work in NO and the $5m donation for COVID puts Brees at the back of any problem queue for me on this issue.

    This is why I don't like sport stars being involved with politics. I didn't have a problem with Jadon Sancho's t-shirt message, cause I agree with it. But if you allow it, then you have to let people have their pro-Trumo style messages too. Want to be political? Get into politics.


  • #353
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I have no problem with what brees said.

    Typical anti white racism from the blacks.


  • #354
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    What Brees said was pretty stupid and he was rightly called out on it from everyone from his teammates, Lebron James, Aaron Rodgers, Richard Sherman, Michael Thomas etc.

    Brees showed his ignorance of the issues black people in the US are facing and showed he either didn't care or didn't take the time to understand what Kaepernick was protesting about in the first place.

    Instead of showing same compassion and understanding of current events he came out with the same tired agenda that has been used to discredit and blackball Colin from the league.

    He did this at the worst possible time. At the very least any chance of a post playing career in media have taken a big setback.

    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt


  • #355
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    adrian522 wrote: »
    What Brees said was pretty stupid and he was rightly called out on it from everyone from his teammates, Lebron James, Aaron Rodgers, Richard Sherman, Michael Thomas etc.

    Brees showed his ignorance of the issues black people in the US are facing and showed he either didn't care or didn't take the time to understand what Kaepernick was protesting about in the first place.

    Instead of showing same compassion and understanding of current events he came out with the same tired agenda that has been used to discredit and blackball Colin from the league.

    He did this at the worst possible time. At the very least any chance of a post playing career in media have taken a big setback.

    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt
    Not this again...


    He wanted a starting job and top wages. He didnt play well enough to justify that. And wont take a backup job. Look at winston, etc that took low contracts as backups after losing starting jobs.


    It's nothing to do with race, it's ability and salary, end of.


  • #356
    MrKingsley
    Registered Users Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭MrKingsley


    Agree with most of what you said above Munster.

    Brees gives his opinion on respecting the flag and gets told to shut the f up and keep quiet. At the same time everyone from Obama, Tiger Woods and political commentators are calling for discussion, listening skills and education to be at the fore of any potential progress that can be made.

    Whilst Brees might have fallen short on some of these, people essentially telling him that he doesn’t have a right to express this opinion most certainly have


  • #357
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,363 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Not this again...


    He wanted a starting job and top wages. He didnt play well enough to justify that. And wont take a backup job. Look at winston, etc that took low contracts as backups after losing starting jobs.


    It's nothing to do with race, it's ability and salary, end of.

    He was a starting QB when he took the knee ffs.


  • #358
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ELM327 wrote: »
    ...the blacks.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    Do you mean "black people"?


  • #359
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Not this again...


    He wanted a starting job and top wages.

    Incorrect. This is false, he was prepared to workout for Seattle for the backup to Wilson.
    ELM327 wrote: »
    He didnt play well enough to justify that. And wont take a backup job

    Incorrect. As above he was prepared to compete for qa backup job but wasn;t offered any.
    ELM327 wrote: »
    Look at winston, etc that took low contracts as backups after losing starting jobs.

    Incorrect, what backup jobs was he offered?

    ELM327 wrote: »
    It's nothing to do with race, it's ability and salary, end of.

    :eek:

    Better than at least half the starting QB's in the league and better than all the backups.


  • #360
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    MrKingsley wrote: »
    Agree with most of what you said above Munster.

    Brees gives his opinion on respecting the flag and gets told to shut the f up and keep quiet. At the same time everyone from Obama, Tiger Woods and political commentators are calling for discussion, listening skills and education to be at the fore of any potential progress that can be made.

    Whilst Brees might have fallen short on some of these, people essentially telling him that he doesn’t have a right to express this opinion most certainly have

    This issue has been around for years and despite Brees' PR stunts on race he made it clear yesterday that he hasn't been listening.

    Sometimes when it is clear a friend isn't listening you have to tell them to shut up for their own good and do a better job of hearing the other side.

    What Brees basically said yesterday was that his perception of disrespect to an inanimate object is more important than the lives of the majority of his team mates and their families.


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  • #361
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I have no problem with what brees said.

    Typical anti white racism from the blacks.

    Of course you don't, the rest of your post says all we need to know about why you feel that way.

    Remarkable insecurity on show.


  • #362
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    As expected, Drew Brees releases his apology on Instagram.


  • #363
    MrKingsley
    Registered Users Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭MrKingsley


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    This issue has been around for years and despite Brees' PR stunts on race he made it clear yesterday that he hasn't been listening.

    Sometimes when it is clear a friend isn't listening you have to tell them to shut up for their own good and do a better job of hearing the other side.

    What Brees basically said yesterday was that his perception of disrespect to an inanimate object is more important than the lives of the majority of his team mates and their families.

    I literally said that Brees might well have fallen short of listening/communicating.

    The object obviously isn’t inanimate to him. It means a huge amount clearly


  • #364
    myate
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭myate


    jack presley wrote: »
    As expected, Drew Brees releases his apology on Instagram.


    1. He's only apologised because he's been called out so much over the past few hours.
    2. His teammates now know how he feels about the situation.
    3. The rest of the leagues defensive players are gonna love sacking him this year!


  • #365
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    myate wrote: »
    1. He's only apologised because he's been called out so much over the past few hours.

    Of course. At least he didn't used the "I'm sorry if anyone was offended" line though.


  • #366
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    jack presley wrote: »
    Of course. At least he didn't used the "I'm sorry if anyone was offended" line though.

    He got very very close at one point - 'I am sick about the way my comments were perceived', though afterwards he takes full responsibility


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  • #367
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    MrKingsley wrote: »
    I literally said that Brees might well have fallen short of listening/communicating.

    And yet your focus was people who disagreed with him.

    If I ever fall so short on listening/communicating in front of the world then I hope I have a friend that will tell me to shut up.
    The object obviously isn’t inanimate to him.

    Unless he thinks flags are living creatures then they are by definition inanimate.
    It means a huge amount clearly

    If he feels the flag means more to him than the majority of his team mates and their families that is his choice, however he shouldn't at the same time do fake PR stunts pretending to support the cause that those men were protesting for.


  • #368
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    myate wrote: »
    1. He's only apologised because he's been called out so much over the past few hours.
    2. His teammates now know how he feels about the situation.
    3. The rest of the leagues defensive players are gonna love sacking him this year!

    Some are already making that feeling known

    https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1268366527083970565?s=20


  • #369
    MrKingsley
    Registered Users Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭MrKingsley


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    And yet your focus was people who disagreed with him.

    If I ever fall so short on listening/communicating in front of the world then I hope I have a friend that will tell me to shut up.



    Unless he thinks flags are living creatures then they are by definition inanimate.



    If he feels the flag means more to him than the majority of his team mates and their families that is his choice, however he shouldn't at the same time do fake PR stunts pretending to support the cause that those men were protesting for.

    Right this won’t be going anywhere quick. Not even sure that we are debating the same points. I’ll leave it there


  • #370
    Oat23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,368 ✭✭✭✭Oat23


    Just when you think 2020 has peaked you have Bears fans criticising Brian Urlacher (for his Brees-like tone deaf opinions) and praising Aaron Rodgers.


  • #371
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    MrKingsley wrote: »
    Right this won’t be going anywhere quick. Not even sure that we are debating the same points. I’ll leave it there

    If you were planning to continue to argue that for some people flags are not inanimate then we should definitely leave it there.


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  • #372
    MrKingsley
    Registered Users Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭MrKingsley


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    If you were planning to continue to argue that for some people flags are not inanimate then we should definitely leave it there.

    Yes that was exactly where I was going with it. Well spotted


  • #373
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    And here we go again

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1268998143733051394?s=20


  • #374
    alchemist33
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    a74a744fef9b3e83e674ae860ccf1039de-02-CPAC-Trump-Hugs-Flag.2x.rsquare.w1200.jpg

    I'm embarrassed for the flag.

    But really, what's more important? Making the right body language to a symbol or people's lives? Because if you think it's the piece of cloth, then what is represents is people getting killed.

    But if course the language doesn't matter here. No players are disrespecting their country, but making gullible people think they are makes you look patriotic and gets votes.


  • #375
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Goodell accepts that the NFL got it wrong and should have listened to the players but fails to apologise to Kaepernick...

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/sport/roger-goodell-responds-nfl-stronger-together-video/


  • #376
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    And here we go again

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1268998143733051394?s=20

    https://twitter.com/drewbrees/status/1269089165972471814?s=19


  • #377
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,363 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    You know what I’ve never understood about the objection to the kneeling is how kneeling is somehow disrespectful to the flag or anthem. I can understand you wanting people to be respectful towards a country’s flag but I’m assuming that the vast majority of players in the NFL were raised in some Christian denomination in which kneeling is seen as the ultimate show of respect. That’s whats so baffling to me about this whole thing being honest.


  • #378
    D9Male
    Registered Users Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭D9Male


    At least Brees has had the sense to climb down from his high horse, so I respect him for that. Kneeling for the anthem was a peaceful protest. Those who claimed it disrespected the flag were trying to take attention away from the real issue, which many didn't want to address or even admit to.

    Talking about peaceful Kaep-like protests being disrespectful was always ridiculous, but especially tone deaf in light of events in the past 10 days. Brees deserved a lot of criticism, but thankfully he is not stupid enough to stick with his stance.


  • #379
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Goodell accepts that the NFL got it wrong and should have listened to the players but fails to apologise to Kaepernick...

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/sport/roger-goodell-responds-nfl-stronger-together-video/

    oh sh1t, better git on this bandwagon quick smart.


  • #380
    MileHighGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭MileHighGuy


    glasso wrote:
    oh sh1t, better git on this bandwagon quick smart.


    ... damned if you do, damned if you don't.


  • #381
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MileHighGuy wrote: »
    ... damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    Yes but given the prior stance just makes it look all the more jarring.

    The NFL won't be judged well historically on this.

    White administrators with a load of black lads and affirmative actions were effectively subdued.


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  • #382
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    MileHighGuy wrote: »
    ... damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    He's damned for his reaction 3 years ago and he can't make up for that now but its good to at least see him acknowledge it was wrong.


  • #383
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,162 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Would even 1 in a 1000 African Americans in the NFL have backed taking the Knee, it wasn't popular among any demographic.


  • #384
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,768 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Danzy wrote: »
    Would even 1 in a 1000 African Americans in the NFL have backed taking the Knee, it wasn't popular among any demographic.

    The whole steelers team refused to come out for the anthem bar their lineman who had served


  • #385
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    You know what I’ve never understood about the objection to the kneeling is how kneeling is somehow disrespectful to the flag or anthem. I can understand you wanting people to be respectful towards a country’s flag but I’m assuming that the vast majority of players in the NFL were raised in some Christian denomination in which kneeling is seen as the ultimate show of respect. That’s whats so baffling to me about this whole thing being honest.

    Certain people always find a reason to be against black people protesting.

    When there isn't an obvious excuse they just make one up to be faux offended.

    I'm happy Brees came out with his rebuke of Trump but it takes willful ignorance to have been a player in the NFL for the years that the protests were headlines and only now 'realize' that they weren't about the flag. Brees shows the same willful ignorance about his connections to a group that performs/supports gay conversion therapy. He is either very dumb or has very questionable morals.


  • #386
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Danzy wrote: »
    Would even 1 in a 1000 African Americans in the NFL have backed taking the Knee, it wasn't popular among any demographic.

    From everything that came out, it was very popular among players but most feared for their jobs if they showed support. The few times teams supported them in taking one the majority did.

    Given what happened to Kaep they were right to be scared for their jobs.


  • #387
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    From everything that came out, it was very popular among players but most feared for their jobs if they showed support. The few times teams supported them in taking one the majority did.

    Given what happened to Kaep they were right to be scared for their jobs.
    Why, were they also former starters still looking for starter money?


  • #388
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Why, were they also former starters still looking for starter money?

    Can you post a source for this or stop posting please?


  • #389
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Can you post a source for this or stop posting please?
    Gladly


    I remember it happening. Here are the first three results from a quick google. It's not like this isnt common knowledge, so there are many more links if needed.
    No one is going to pay 9-10mn to him to be a backup. He's not a starter at this point.





    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2713471-colin-kaepernick-seahawks-contract-reportedly-didnt-happen-because-of-money
    https://www.businessinsider.com/broncos-wont-sign-colin-kaepernick-contract-john-elway-2018-8
    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/28/report-kaepernick-wants-a-chance-to-start-and-9-10-million/


  • #390
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    It's unclear what Kaepernick is seeking on his next contract. The 29-year-old was due $14.5 million in base salary next season with the 49ers before opting out.

    Where does it confirm he was looking for starter money? Where did he turn down a backup job?

    The Broncos one is complete nonsense, that's referring to a possible trade 2 years previously where they were expecting him to take a $5M pay cut. So not surprising he didn't go for that.

    On the 3rd one $9-10 million is hardly starter money or preventing anyone from picking him up. The fact is he wasn't really given a chance by any team in the league and that was due to his protesting of police brutality.

    The idea that Kaepernick doesn't have a job being because of salary demands or that he is just not good enough don't stand up to scrutiny at all.


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  • #391
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Foxtrol wrote: »

    Given what happened to Kaep they were right to be scared for their jobs.

    Eric Reid still doesn’t have a job.


  • #392
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Where does it confirm he was looking for starter money? Where did he turn down a backup job?

    The Broncos one is complete nonsense, that's referring to a possible trade 2 years previously where they were expecting him to take a $5M pay cut. So not surprising he didn't go for that.

    On the 3rd one $9-10 million is hardly starter money or preventing anyone from picking him up. The fact is he wasn't really given a chance by any team in the league and that was due to his protesting of police brutality.

    The idea that Kaepernick doesn't have a job being because of salary demands or that he is just not good enough don't stand up to scrutiny at all.


    AS a GM would you prefer your backup as Winston/Flacco on $1m a year base, or 9-10mn for kapernick ?


  • #393
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    The facts are that not a single team has offered Kaepernick a contract on any description since 2016.

    And I'd much prefer Kaerpernick than either of those 2 QB's.

    Winston threw as many INT's last season as Kaepernick did in his entire career.


  • #394
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    adrian522 wrote: »
    The facts are that not a single team has offered Kaepernick a contract on any description since 2016.

    And I'd much prefer Kaerpernick than either of those 2 QB's.

    Winston threw as many INT's last season as Kaepernick did in his entire career.
    On 10x the salary?
    If yes then you are delusional.


  • #395
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    ELM327 wrote: »
    On 10x the salary?
    If yes then you are delusional.

    Not really 10 times the salary now is it? Given he wasn't offered that by any team.

    The $9m was just a rumour of what he was looking for in contract negotiations.

    The bottom line is that Colin was blackballed from the league and didn't receive a single offer from any team for any amount.


  • #396
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Not really 10 times the salary now is it? Given he wasn't offered that by any team.

    The $9m was just a rumour of what he was looking for in contract negotiations.

    The bottom line is that Colin was blackballed from the league and didn't receive a single offer from any team for any amount.
    You have no proof of either of those things.


    No one wants him, he's past it, brings too much baggage, even if he signed at the vet min as a backup QB.


    Look at Vick, who spent years out of the league. He wasn't the same afterwards. He also had baggage, people took a chance on him as a backup (since he accepted backup money).


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  • #397
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You have no proof of either of those things.


    No one wants him, he's past it, brings too much baggage, even if he signed at the vet min as a backup QB.


    Look at Vick, who spent years out of the league. He wasn't the same afterwards. He also had baggage, people took a chance on him as a backup (since he accepted backup money).

    I don't have proof that he was not offered any deals? It's pretty common knowledge actually. You don't have any proof that he was offered anything and have resorted to posting Internet rumors to back up your claims.

    Vick wasn't the same afterwards but he was still very good and crucially was offered another chance. Arguably the best years of his career were in Philly. Certainly 2010 was right up there, 3000 yards, 21 TDs, 6 INT's plus another 9 rushing TD's.

    In the morality of the NFL dog fighting is OK, but protesting police brutality is not apparently.


  • #398
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,768 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You have no proof of either of those things.


    No one wants him, he's past it, brings too much baggage, even if he signed at the vet min as a backup QB.


    Look at Vick, who spent years out of the league. He wasn't the same afterwards. He also had baggage, people took a chance on him as a backup (since he accepted backup money).

    Eh didn't vick get a pro bowl nod and lead them to playoffs after his suspension??


  • #399
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You have no proof of either of those things.

    No one wants him, he's past it, brings too much baggage, even if he signed at the vet min as a backup QB.

    Look at Vick, who spent years out of the league. He wasn't the same afterwards. He also had baggage, people took a chance on him as a backup (since he accepted backup money).

    But you've already conceded that Kaep was ostracised because of what he said and did and it had nothing to do with salary.

    Here is your reaction to the Deshaun Watson comment a few weeks ago...
    ELM327 wrote: »
    Watson should shut up or he'll find himself the next kap

    We're you not pretty much saying Watson would be blackballed just like Kaep?


  • #400
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Why, were they also former starters still looking for starter money?

    To quote Akiem Hicks - "We signed Mike Glennon". That deal made him $16m in 2017 and then he went on to earn $7.5m across 2 teams in 2018

    What about Chase Daniel getting $7m in 2016?

    We have Nick Foles getting $12m to be a backup in 2018.

    Then you have utter madness of Blake Bortles getting $20m in 2018.

    Your $9-10m number is complete fantasy but even if we took it as being true, the above players show how it isn't an issue in the NFL to overpay backups or poor starters when they feel like it, guys that didn't have the body of work that Kaep has.


  • #401
    Barney92
    Registered Users Posts: 2,906 ✭✭✭Barney92


    You have the Colts who have Rivers with a cap hit of 25m this year and Brissett with a cap hit of 21.4m.

    Raiders have both Carr (21.5m) and Mariota (9.1m), as well as another 2m for Nathan Peterman.

    Miami's three qb's have cap hit of 8m (Fitz), 5.5m (Tua) and 2m (Rosen).

    Chargers have Taylor (7.5m) and Herbert.

    Bears - Trubisky (9.3m) and Foles (5.3m)

    That is all based on cap hit this year, if you go by average salary then you can add in a few more team with what are going to be highly paid back ups.


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