Rock on, Rockall! (it's back)

FrancieBrady · 12-06-2019 12:47am

janfebmar wrote: »

It means the Canaries are Spanish and the Falklands are British.

droidman123 had said:
Ok so by that logic the malvinas are closer to argentina than the uk so......
so I replied to that. Do pay attention in the back of the class Francis.

Somebody just put their foot in their mouth yet again...:D:D:D

janfebmar · 12-06-2019 12:48am

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's an uninhabited rock. No one has ownership.

Any other uninhabited rocks at that or these latitudes in the world are owned.

What about when it was inhabited by Maclean and others? Who owned it then?

Duckworth_Luas · 12-06-2019 1:47am

janfebmar wrote: »

Any other uninhabited rocks at that or these latitudes in the world are owned.

What about when it was inhabited by Maclean and others? Who owned it then?

You should move there permanently to claim ownership for Britain.

Unfortunately there's no internet so, unless you train the periwinkles to carry messages, we will have to do without your complete lack of knowledge on any subject whatsoever.

archer22 · 12-06-2019 6:09am

The only way the issue can be resolved is by war.

Plus it would be entertaining to have a funny little war in the North Atlantic between Scotland and Ireland over a rock

If it's decided by a shooting war Scotland will win, but if it's decided by insults,snide remarks and chest thumping Ireland will win.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-06-2019 6:32am

archer22 wrote: »

The only way the issue can be resolved is by war.

Plus it would be entertaining to have a funny little war in the North Atlantic between Scotland and Ireland over a rock

If it's decided by a shooting war Scotland will win, but if it's decided by insults,snide remarks and chest thumping Ireland will win.

LET'S ROLL!

:cool:

ILoveYourVibes · 12-06-2019 6:42am

This has nothing to do with Fishing or a stupid rock.

Its a declaration of war on the negotiations.

The British are sly and the Scottish are biddable to them.

They have no shame.

They have threatened to board Irish ships by force.

That isn't something you do to a neighbour its something you do to an enemy.

odyssey06 · 12-06-2019 8:38am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This has nothing to do with Fishing or a stupid rock.
Its a declaration of war on the negotiations.
The British are sly and the Scottish are biddable to them.
They have no shame.
They have threatened to board Irish ships by force.
That isn't something you do to a neighbour its something you do to an enemy.

I guess we got our retaliation in first then when we detained two Northern Irish vessels?

https://www.thejournal.ie/dup-on-the-attack-over-heavy-handed-tactics-after-naval-service-detains-two-uk-registered-trawlers-4518726-Mar2019/

janfebmar · 12-06-2019 8:42am

archer22 wrote: »

The only way the issue can be resolved is by war.

.

Only problem is they have the fourth most powerful navy in the world. It used to be the most powerful 60 or 70 years ago but at least it's heading in the right direction now, according to Francis. Could we just keep them in the EU for another few decades and then go to war?

janfebmar · 12-06-2019 8:46am

odyssey06 wrote: »

I guess we got our retaliation in first then when we detained two Northern Irish vessels?

https://www.thejournal.ie/dup-on-the-attack-over-heavy-handed-tactics-after-naval-service-detains-two-uk-registered-trawlers-4518726-Mar2019/

Not to mention when we f***** up the Brexit negotiation on them....

RobMc59 · 12-06-2019 8:49am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

LET'S ROLL!

:cool:

You're all doomed!!!
https://youtu.be/ESsVydlq8cM

FrancieBrady · 12-06-2019 8:56am

It's over folks. Sturgeon was pushed out to tacitly surrender.
There will now follow a quiet little agreement and things will continue as they have.
The toys(rubber ducks?) are back in the UK pram. Poor Britannia can't even rule their own waves these days.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-06-2019 8:59am

RobMc59 wrote: »

You're all doomed!!!
https://youtu.be/ESsVydlq8cM

Come out an fight me ye black and tan! I am not afraid of Rab C Nesbit my da drinks more than him! And he has a job!

recedite · 12-06-2019 9:25am

RobMc59 wrote: »

You're all doomed!!!
https://youtu.be/ESsVydlq8cM

Beware the Ladies From Hell, as the Germans used to call them.

A number of authors state that the regiment was given the nickname "Ladies from Hell" ("Die Damen aus der Hölle") by German troops, allegedly on account of their kilts and fighting qualities

steddyeddy · 12-06-2019 9:33am

RobMc59 wrote: »

Personally I hope this can be sorted out amicably as I believe Ireland and Britain should work together to safeguard their joint fishing grounds-if anyone should be told to stop fishing there it should be Denmark and Iceland.
I'm also surprised Scotland are making such a fuss about this as they may need Ireland's backing over joining the EU in the event of independence-unless there's oil under rockall or something.

The SNP don't really have the vote of Scotland's fishing communities. This is simply an attempt to get them on board.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-06-2019 9:34am

steddyeddy wrote: »

The SNP don't really have the vote of Scotland's fishing communities. This is simply an attempt to get them on board.

Well it backfired now!

12-06-2019 9:36am

recedite wrote: »

Beware the Ladies From Hell, as the Germans used to call them.

A number of authors state that the regiment was given the nickname "Ladies from Hell" ("Die Damen aus der Hölle") by German troops, allegedly on account of their kilts and fighting qualities .

It could equally refer to the skirted lady you pick up with the hope of a bit of canoodling, only to find, 'her eyes! her thighs! SURPRISE!'

The first description sounds like the victors version :pac:

steddyeddy · 12-06-2019 9:36am

recedite wrote: »

Beware the Ladies From Hell, as the Germans used to call them.

I think trade and economics will be the new battlefield now. I don't think the UK will risk upsetting an EU country. There's a lot of bluster there about no-deal Brexit but outside of old Etonians there's not an appetite for that.

steddyeddy · 12-06-2019 9:48am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
Well it backfired now!

I think the Irish government are being the most sensible on this. It's an inhabited rock with no exclusion zone. No offense to any royalists reading this but having the queen plant a flag on a rock hundreds of miles away from the coast of any country doesn't really fly with anyone anymore. Especially when you're no longer a superpower.

vicwatson · 12-06-2019 9:49am

whisky_galore wrote: »

If it's an infographic it has to be true.

Ok wise guy, what’s the distances then?? Jesus Christ some people on boards :mad:

vicwatson · 12-06-2019 9:53am

recedite wrote: »

So I just measured it, and Rockall is 300km to St Kilda, and 420km to Tory Island (these are the exact points to measure to, being the nearest inhabited parts of each country).

“The uninhabited rocky outcrop lies around 230 nautical miles northwest of Donegal and 240 miles west of Scotland in the North Atlantic.”

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0609/1054357-rockall/

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2019 9:55am

vicwatson wrote: »

Ok wise guy, what’s the distances then?? Jesus Christ some people on boards :mad:

what part of scotland are they measuring it from? the nearest inhabitable part of scotland is St Kilda which is 303Km from Rockall.

12-06-2019 9:57am

steddyeddy wrote: »

The SNP don't really have the vote of Scotland's fishing communities. This is simply an attempt to get them on board.

The relative intelligent can see that.

For some though, it’s British imperialism brought about by Westminster and using their puppet state in Holyrood

blinding · 12-06-2019 9:59am

I blame Mel Gibson ! He gave those Scots Notions !

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2019 10:02am

vicwatson wrote: »

“The uninhabited rocky outcrop lies around 230 nautical miles northwest of Donegal and 240 miles west of Scotland in the North Atlantic.”

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0609/1054357-rockall/

i'd love to know what part of donegal they measure that from to get 368KM. It is 423KM to Tory Island.

12-06-2019 11:04am

Aegir wrote: »

The relative intelligent can see that.

While Steddyeddy is correct that this whole Rockall business has much more to do with the SNP need to assuage Scottish fishing communities/domestic politics, it also points to those communities being very naïve to believe that any Brexiteer government is *not* going to sell Scottish fishing rights out for greater British rights to other areas of the EU market.

It will sell Scottish fishermen out, even if they wrap the sell-out in Union Jacks and fine speeches supported by the oligarch-owned, Tory-supporting "free press". Fishing is just not a big enough industry in Britain to be anything more than a bargaining chip. That is the long and the short of this. Not one of the mendacious guttersnipes who constitute the pro-Brexit lobby have the integrity to be honest about this reality of the post-Brexit UK state.

Skylinehead · 12-06-2019 11:05am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i'd love to know what part of donegal they measure that from to get 368KM. It is 423KM to Tory Island.

Nautical miles.

12-06-2019 11:07am

Aegir wrote: »

For some though, it’s British imperialism brought about by Westminster and using their puppet state in Holyrood

Ironically, though - and you're not going to like this at all - this entire Brexit business is highlighting the essentially de facto imperial status of the relationship between Scotland and England in 2019.

In the 2014 Scottish referendum the pro "Remain in the UK" side sold UK membership to the Scots by saying remaining in the UK will ensure Scotland stays part of the EU. The Scots voted to remain in the UK, and then, in 2016, to remain in the EU.

Now, nevertheless, they must do as they're told and leave the EU because the English want to "take back control". Given the Scottish majority vote against Brexit in 2016, there's not much "taking back control" for the Scots - in reality, Brexit has resulted in an overthrow by the majority of the English electorate of the wishes of the majority of the Scottish electorate. As long as the Scots are a perpetual minority in the English-gerrymandered state of the "United Kingdom" the Scots will always be marching to the wishes of the English. Brexit has shown that for as long as Scotland remains in the UK the democratically expressed wishes of the Scots can be, and will be, overthrown by the democratically expressed wishes of the English. "We're better together" indeed.

Are the 2 million conservative Scots, 55% of the electorate, who voted for UK membership/English rule in 2014 now very embarrassed by how naïve they were?

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2019 11:11am

Skylinehead wrote: »

Nautical miles.

It doesnt matter what units you use there is no part of donegal that is closer to rockall than St Kilda in scotland.

RobMc59 · 12-06-2019 11:15am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ironically, though - and you're not going to like this at all - this entire Brexit business is highlighting the essentially de facto imperial status of the relationship between Scotland and England in 2019.

In the 2014 Scottish referendum the pro "Remain in the UK" side sold UK membership to the Scots by saying remaining in the UK will ensure Scotland stays part of the EU. The Scots voted to remain in the UK, and then, in 2016, to remain in the EU.

Now, nevertheless, they must do as they're told and leave the EU because the English want to "take back control". Given the Scottish majority vote against Brexit in 2016, there's not much "taking back control" for the Scots - in reality, Brexit has resulted in an overthrow by the majority of the English electorate of the wishes of the majority of the Scottish electorate. As long as the Scots are a perpetual minority in the English-gerrymandered state of the "United Kingdom" the Scots will always be marching to the wishes of the English. Brexit has shown that for as long as Scotland remains in the UK the democratically expressed wishes of the Scots can be, and will be, overthrown by the democratically expressed wishes of the English. "We're better together" indeed.

Are the 2 million conservative Scots, 55% of the electorate, who voted for UK membership/English rule in 2014 now very embarrassed by how naïve they were?

None of that will matter when the Scots open a can of whoopass:)

12-06-2019 11:34am

Deleted User wrote: »

Ironically, though - and you're not going to like this at all - this entire Brexit business is highlighting the essentially de facto imperial status of the relationship between Scotland and England in 2019.

In the 2014 Scottish referendum the pro "Remain in the UK" side sold UK membership to the Scots by saying remaining in the UK will ensure Scotland stays part of the EU. The Scots voted to remain in the UK, and then, in 2016, to remain in the EU.

Now, nevertheless, they must do as they're told and leave the EU because the English want to "take back control". Given the Scottish majority vote against Brexit in 2016, there's not much "taking back control" for the Scots - in reality, Brexit has resulted in an overthrow by the majority of the English electorate of the wishes of the majority of the Scottish electorate. As long as the Scots are a perpetual minority in the English-gerrymandered state of the "United Kingdom" the Scots will always be marching to the wishes of the English. Brexit has shown that for as long as Scotland remains in the UK the democratically expressed wishes of the Scots can be, and will be, overthrown by the democratically expressed wishes of the English. "We're better together" indeed.

Are the 2 million conservative Scots, 55% of the electorate, who voted for UK membership/English rule in 2014 now very embarrassed by how naïve they were?

good man, you never fail to disappoint.

How is the UK gerrymandered?
Did everyone that voted no in the Scottish referendum a Tory?
Why is being part of a union where Scotland has 59 out of 650 parliamentary seats worse than being part of a union where it would have 13 out of 751 seats?

12-06-2019 11:37am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It doesnt matter what units you use there is no part of donegal that is closer to rockall than St Kilda in scotland.

If you measure East to West?

12-06-2019 11:50am

Aegir wrote: »

How is the UK gerrymandered?

Seriously? Let's see. Putting the Scots in an English parliament at Westminster where the English are a perpetual majority, for starters. Having a UK-wide vote where there will always be far more English voters voting for English interests than Scottish voters...

Aegir wrote: »

Did everyone that voted no in the Scottish referendum a Tory?

Presumably they all didn't support the Tories, but in that 2014 referendum on whether to keep the United Kingdom, they were all certainly Unionists when they voted to keep it.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2019 11:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

If you measure East to West?

i really hope this is a joke.

Skylinehead · 12-06-2019 11:52am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It doesnt matter what units you use there is no part of donegal that is closer to rockall than St Kilda in scotland.

Oh, I know. I think they've been sneaky with their wording there, 230 nautical miles (425 kilometres) is more than 240 "normal" miles (386 kilometres). They never claimed that Donegal is 368 km from Rockall, just being very liberal with their measurement units for some bizarre reason.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2019 11:57am

Skylinehead wrote: »

Oh, I know. I think they've been sneaky with their wording there, 230 nautical miles (425 kilometres) is more than 240 "normal" miles (386 kilometres). They never claimed that Donegal is 368 km from Rockall, just being very liberal with their measurement units for some bizarre reason.

i didn't notice that. that is deliberately misleading from RTE.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2019 12:09pm

So i have emailed RTE to ask if that was a deliberate attempt to mislead or did their reporter simply not understand the difference between nautical miles and miles. I await their reply with baited breath.

12-06-2019 12:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously? Let's see. Putting the Scots in an English parliament at Westminster where the English are a perpetual majority, for starters. Having a UK-wide vote where there will always be far more English voters voting for English interests than Scottish voters...

there hasn't been an English parliament 1707.

If you are referring to the Parliament of the United Kingdom, where Scotland is over represented and is able to vote on matters that only affect England and over turn many of the laws they aren't happy with, then how is that gerrymandering?

Deleted User wrote: »

Presumably they all didn't support the Tories, but in that 2014 referendum on whether to keep the United Kingdom, they were all certainly Unionists when they voted to keep it.

Considering Labour and the Lib Dems were also campaigning heavily for a no vote, I would say that your "Presumption" is actually a "Certainty".

odyssey06 · 12-06-2019 12:16pm

RTE must be using Irish miles for measuring from Donegal and imperial miles for Scotland...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_measure

12-06-2019 12:20pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

RTE must be using Irish miles for measuring from Donegal and imperial miles for Scotland...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_measure

Understandable considering - the relative measure for each country. Makes sense.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2019 12:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Understandable considering - the relative measure for each country. Makes sense.

we haven't used irish miles for 200 years.

Skylinehead · 12-06-2019 12:53pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

RTE must be using Irish miles for measuring from Donegal and imperial miles for Scotland...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_measure

Deleted User wrote: »

Understandable considering - the relative measure for each country. Makes sense.

Can yis not read? It says nautical miles in the article...

odyssey06 · 12-06-2019 1:27pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

Can yis not read? It says nautical miles in the article...

Fake miles though as we know they dont add up.

odyssey06 · 12-06-2019 1:30pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

we haven't used irish miles for 200 years.

Last time RTE measured the distances apparently... or how else are they so far wrong !

janfebmar · 12-06-2019 1:45pm

RTE is not a reputable news source when they mislead over basic facts like that.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2019 1:48pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Last time RTE measured the distances apparently... or how else are they so far wrong !

they are not wrong strictly. what they wrote is misleading because they used different units for the two distances.

FrancieBrady · 12-06-2019 2:01pm

Why all the fussing about 'distance'. As janfebmar said distance is not the issue, the Canaries would belong to Morrocco and the Malvinas would belong to Argentina if 'distance' was the deciding factor.

Here is the deciding factor, and the reason Scotland is climbing back into it's box:

The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea states, "Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf."

Ireland's position is the legal and lawful one.

odyssey06 · 12-06-2019 2:16pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why all the fussing about 'distance'. As janfebmar said distance is not the issue, the Canaries would belong to Morrocco and the Malvinas would belong to Argentina if 'distance' was the deciding factor.
Here is the deciding factor, and the reason Scotland is climbing back into it's box:
The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea states, "Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf."
Ireland's position is the legal and lawful one.

If they can still have a territorial sea it is important.
Also, it's why Ireland has no ownership claim on Rockall.

I'm not sure what the exact legal meaning of "economic life of their own" is. If the area is full of fish, even if you can't really inhabit it, does it have an economic life?

The fussing about distance is also important in the context of RTE's reporting.

firemansam4 · 12-06-2019 2:35pm

Yes talk about this rock being a few miles closer to Scotland is beside the point.
The fact that a lunitic camped on that rock for a few weeks does not class it as being habitable.
It is not habitable and Irish fishing vessels are clearly well within there rights to fish in the waters around it.

This is just some saber ratling from Scottish ministers, it will all be forgotten about soon enough and Irish fishing vessels will continue to fish in these waters.
The end.

RobMc59 · 12-06-2019 2:36pm

firemansam4 wrote: »

Yes talk about this rock being a few miles closer to Scotland is beside the point.
The fact that a lunitic camped on that rock for a few weeks does not class it as being habitable.
It is not habitable and Irish fishing vessels are clearly well within there rights to fish in the waters around it.

This is just some saber ratling from Scottish ministers, it will all be forgotten about soon enough and Irish fishing vessels will continue to fish in these waters.
The end.

It would be terrible if the taoiseach had to make a second embarrassing climbdown.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/impounding-ni-registered-fishing-boats-regrettable-varadkar-1.3811547

odyssey06 · 12-06-2019 2:40pm

firemansam4 wrote: »

Yes talk about this rock being a few miles closer to Scotland is beside the point.
The fact that a lunitic camped on that rock for a few weeks does not class it as being habitable.
It is not habitable and Irish fishing vessels are clearly well within there rights to fish in the waters around it.

It depends on whether you are talking about within 12miles or 200miles of it.
Within 200 miles yes.
Within 12 miles, maybe, could be one for the lawyers.

Rock on, Rockall! (it's back)

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