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If the Green Party got into government are they mad

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    #92
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Macha wrote: »
    And right now people in China are probably saying why should we do anything, places like Ireland have per capita emissions far higher than ours.

    So we all sit in our hands and do nothing?

    I wonder if we were all on a sinking ship would we bicker this much about who's fault it is or would we all get bailing as fast as possible.


    China are investing hugely in green technology. They are the largest market at the moment for electric cars and it is growing. They are swapping buses to electric etc....


    Large apartment been build with trees etc in the design. They are doing a lot more than Ireland and we could easily be the envy of the rest of the World....but we are falling a mile behind them


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    #93
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    A Shropshire Lad wrote: »
    At least the Greens kind of stand for something real.

    You must be joking. Reality and the green party are complete opposites.


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    #94
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,853 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Nobelium wrote: »
    You must be joking. Reality and the green party are complete opposites.

    please explain?


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    #95
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    please explain?

    Reality is worrying about how you'll pay the mortgage, tax the car, insure the house and buy the kids' school uniforms and books all from this month's pay cheque.

    The Green Party is about saving the planet and has nothing - repeat absolutely nothing - to offer that can address the above real-world problems.

    Although, in fairness, Trevor Sargent would probably suggest growing one's own vegetables to help reduce the monthly food bill.


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    #96
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »
    Reality is worrying about how you'll pay the mortgage, tax the car, insure the house and buy the kids' school uniforms and books all from this month's pay cheque.

    The Green Party is about saving the planet and has nothing - repeat absolutely nothing - to offer that can address the above real-world problems.

    Although, in fairness, Trevor Sargent would probably suggest growing one's own vegetables to help reduce the monthly food bill.


    Reality is if the Green party do get in they will have little power to make massive changes which you suggest are suddenly going to stop you paying mortgage etc....


    That will be done by the main party in power, they might dress it up as a Green party decision because they will know it is unpopular


    No matter what party is in power, Green, Red, Blue etc....you are going to have to start either
    A. Pay more tax to cover the CO2 fines
    B. Start making changes in your everyday life to reduce CO2 emmisions...


    So far the carrot option byt the government has failed to work....the only option it seems that Irish people understand is taxing the ass out of stuff


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    #97
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    No matter what party is in power, Green, Red, Blue etc....you are going to have to start either
    A. Pay more tax to cover the CO2 fines
    B. Start making changes in your everyday life to reduce CO2 emmisions...

    So far the carrot option byt the government has failed to work....the only option it seems that Irish people understand is taxing the ass out of stuff

    So it's all about paying carbon taxes for the wealthy, who won't have to pay a cent . .

    How many hard pushed working families in the real world, commuting long distances to work every day, through no choice, can afford to switch to a new battery powered cars every couple of years ? How many will be able to afford to spend 10's of thousands along with some grants, retro-fitting competely new heating and power systems etc. ? You're living in cloud cookoo land like the green party. An awful lot of people trying to pay a mortgage and bring up a family can barely afford a fill of oil to heat their houses in one of the dampest, darkest wettest countries in Europe. You sound like some spoiled teenager in a Dublin 4 bedroom with no idea of reality.

    Meanwhile all the real C02 polluters like the energy companies, and multinational corporations, and countries like China etc. get away without paying a cent.


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    #98
    Mancomb Seepgood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭Mancomb Seepgood


    Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »
    Reality is worrying about how you'll pay the mortgage, tax the car, insure the house and buy the kids' school uniforms and books all from this month's pay cheque.

    The Green Party is about saving the planet and has nothing - repeat absolutely nothing - to offer that can address the above real-world problems.

    Although, in fairness, Trevor Sargent would probably suggest growing one's own vegetables to help reduce the monthly food bill.

    If you believe we face a serious environmental crisis,then saving the planet is a real world problem.It also affects so many aspects of everyday life:unstable weather patterns affect food prices,insurance costs are affected by extreme weather events.The fines that are coming down the line will be paid for out of taxation,the only question is how that will be paid for.


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    #99
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    So far the carrot option byt the government has failed to work....the only option it seems that Irish people understand is taxing the ass out of stuff


    And a party that tries to "tax the ass off us" in government will, rightly, be punished.


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    #100
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    Shefwedfan wrote: »

    Reality is if the Green party do get in they will have little power to make massive changes which you suggest are suddenly going to stop you paying mortgage etc....



    I made no such suggestion.

    If you are wholly incapable of understanding my posts, then might I suggest that you add me to your ignore list?


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    #101
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Nobelium wrote: »
    So it's all about paying carbon taxes for the wealthy, who won't have to pay a cent . .

    How many hard pushed working families in the real world, commuting long distances to work every day, through no choice, can afford to switch to a new battery powered cars every couple of years ? How many will be able to afford to spend 10's of thousands along with some grants, retro-fitting competely new heating and power systems etc. ? You're living in cloud cookoo land like the green party. An awful lot of people trying to pay a mortgage and bring up a family can barely afford a fill of oil to heat their houses in one of the dampest, darkest wettest countries in Europe. You sound like some spoiled teenager in a Dublin 4 bedroom with no idea of reality.

    Meanwhile all the real C02 polluters like the energy companies, and multinational corporations, and countries like China etc. get away without paying a cent.


    I think you need to stop pointing at China, you can't compare 5 million people with over a billion and expect them to have the same CO2. As I already posted China is doing a lot more than anything Ireland is doing


    Am I a D4 teenager in a leafy suburbs?



    You seem to have a major chip on your shoulder with people who have managed to get a decent job and make a living for themselves.



    You don't need to spend 10's of thousands, small changes can make a big difference. How many houses in Ireland haven't bothered buying a few rolls of insulation and sticking into the attic? changing to eco bulbs


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    #102
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »
    If you believe we face a serious environmental crisis,then saving the planet is a real world problem.It also affects so many aspects of everyday life:unstable weather patterns affect food prices,insurance costs are affected by extreme weather events.The fines that are coming down the line will be paid for out of taxation,the only question is how that will be paid for.

    Believing that the planet faces a serious environmental crisis is one thing.

    Believing that a small nation like Ireland can do much about it is delusional.

    The EU fines that are coming down the line are for the environmental crimes that we committed in 2008 & 2009. There's not much point in deluding people into believing that if we clean up our act now we'll avoid having to pay them.

    But this thread is about what the Greens will do if in Governement - not about the bigger picture.


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    #103
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I think you need to stop pointing at China, you can't compare 5 million people with over a billion and expect them to have the same CO2. As I already posted China is doing a lot more than anything Ireland is doing


    Am I a D4 teenager in a leafy suburbs?



    You seem to have a major chip on your shoulder with people who have managed to get a decent job and make a living for themselves.



    You don't need to spend 10's of thousands, small changes can make a big difference. How many houses in Ireland haven't bothered buying a few rolls of insulation and sticking into the attic? changing to eco bulbs

    Changing insulation and eco bulbs,which are most lilely shipped from.china is drop in the ocean stuff surely?


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    #104
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Changing insulation and eco bulbs,which are most lilely shipped from.china is drop in the ocean stuff surely?


    If every house in Ireland changed to energy saver bulbs and increased attic insulation the culumative effect could be huge


    Sitting on your arse complaining and saying it is everyone else's fault with do nothing.


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    #105
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Nobelium wrote: »
    So it's all about paying carbon taxes for the wealthy, who won't have to pay a cent . .

    How many hard pushed working families in the real world, commuting long distances to work every day, through no choice, can afford to switch to a new battery powered cars every couple of years ? How many will be able to afford to spend 10's of thousands along with some grants, retro-fitting competely new heating and power systems etc. ? You're living in cloud cookoo land like the green party. An awful lot of people trying to pay a mortgage and bring up a family can barely afford a fill of oil to heat their houses in one of the dampest, darkest wettest countries in Europe. You sound like some spoiled teenager in a Dublin 4 bedroom with no idea of reality.

    Meanwhile all the real C02 polluters like the energy companies, and multinational corporations, and countries like China etc. get away without paying a cent.
    You know, what's really sad is that a lot of the problems you've just highlighted would be exactly what the Green Party would tackle - and if their policiee had been implemented, they would have been avoided.

    - bad planning means people live miles away from amenities and work, meaning they have to buy and run one or even two cars. Spending two hours a day sitting in traffic (breathing in car fumes), paying more for childcare to cover this time, it's just such a drain on quality of life.
    - poor building regulations means people are living in badly insulated houses and vulnerable to increased costs of fossil fuels (we get around 90% of our gas from a single pipe from Scotland - and the North Sea reserves are declining.

    Good green policies would invest in resolving these issues exactly by taxing the big polluters. Does it make more sense to pay around €6 billion a year importing polluting fossil fuels or taking some of that money and investing it in insulating our houses so people are more confortable and have lower bills?


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    #106
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    If every house in Ireland changed to energy saver bulbs and increased attic insulation the culumative effect could be huge


    Sitting on your arse complaining and saying it is everyone else's fault with do nothing.

    But would the carbon used to ship these items from.china not offset most of benefit??



    Noone is saying they wont make a difference,but saying ignore china and most goods you want to use to improve situation come from there... seems ridclous?



    Imo best way to reduce waste/pollution is everyone stop buying tatt/crap online and getting it shipped to.them.....consumerism.is the problem,not few lightbulbs in peoples house


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    #107
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    _blaaz wrote: »
    But would the carbon used to ship these items from.china not offset most of benefit??



    Noone is saying they wont make a difference,but saying ignore china and most goods you want to use to improve situation seems ridclous?



    Imo best way to reduce waste/pollution is everyone stop buying tatt/crap online and getting it shipped to.them.....consumerism.is the problem,not few lightbulbs in peoples house


    Who said ignore China, I asked what is the carbon per person in China compared to Ireland?

    I love the Irish attitude, point the finger and blame someone else while sitting doing nothing to resolve the problem local. What happens when the rest of the World has hit targets and we are still sitting here doing nothing? you still going to point the finger at China?

    If Irish people are unwilling to change a few light bulbs and put in some insulation then to be honest I would back the government to tax the ass out of everyone.


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    #108
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Who said ignore China, I asked what is the carbon per person in China compared to Ireland?

    I love the Irish attitude, point the finger and blame someone else while sitting doing nothing to resolve the problem local. What happens when the rest of the World has hit targets and we are still sitting here doing nothing? you still going to point the finger at China?

    If Irish people are unwilling to change a few light bulbs and put in some insulation then to be honest I would back the government to tax the ass out of everyone.

    But you havnt answered.....will the carbon used to bring them.to ireland....offset any benefits here??



    I dont really see point in ranting at me,when you wont even acknowledge basic questions about carbon usage in relation to shipping stuff here......


    I broadly support green policies......but unless there is a consorted effort to tackle rampant consumerism.....


    Changing a few lightbulbs is same as shouting at crows,while pigs have broken into the field of potatoes


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    #109
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    _blaaz wrote: »
    But you havnt answered.....will the carbon used to bring them.to ireland....offset any benefits here??



    I dont really see point in ranting at me,when you wont even acknowledge basic questions about carbon usage in relation to shipping stuff here......


    I broadly support green policies......but unless there is a consorted effort to tackle rampant consumerism.....


    Changing a few lightbulbs is same as shouting at crows,while pigs have broken into the field of potatoes


    But it's virtue signalling, and that's what really impresses the youth of today.


    My last 10 led bulbs came from China so their carbon footprint is probably almost as big as Eamon Ryan's was following his drive from Dublin to Castlebar to Cork and back to Dublin a fortnight ago to attend the two European counts.


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    #110
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    _blaaz wrote: »
    But you havnt answered.....will the carbon used to bring them.to ireland....offset any benefits here??



    I dont really see point in ranting at me,when you wont even acknowledge even basic questions about carbon usage in relation to shipping stuff here......


    I broadly support green policies......but unless there is a consorted effort to tackle rampant consumerism.....


    Changing a few lightbulbs is same as shouting at crows,while pigs have broken into the field of potatoes

    Who is ranting?

    You are talking about the carbon used for shipping? Why would they stop any benefits? Do you think each bulb is sent on a plane on its own?

    As I already said if every house swapped then the cumulative effect would be great...

    How would you describe doing nothing?


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    #111
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Macha wrote: »
    You know, what's really sad is that a lot of the problems you've just highlighted would be exactly what the Green Party would tackle

    Bollocks. The green party had their chance 2007-2011 and instead screwed generations of Irish people to pay for their cronie capitalism. They supported and defended, and propped up FF and the banksters corruption to the hilt. The same green party that got us all driving diesel cars to support their cronies in the SIMI and the Germans.


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    #112
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Who is ranting?

    You are talking about the carbon used for shipping? Why would they stop any benefits? Do you think each bulb is sent on a plane on its own?

    Noone said it would stop any benefits...but will it not offset any benefits???,surely lightbulbs manufactered here would be better.....the problem.is western governments have outsourced supplying consumer products to china....unless you tackle this (and rampant consumerism,its gross btw) your fighting an uphill battle that wont be won
    As I already said if every house swapped then the cumulative effect would be great...

    How would you describe doing nothing?

    It would be great for bills etc...but as regards overall carbon benefits of it....i remain skeptical,the fact you dont even want to grasp.that nettle suggests enough



    How.would i describe doing nothing????ignoring.rampant consumerism.and shouting down anyone who suggests this might be a more pressing concern that few lightbulbs


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    #113
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    In fairness, the kid is right.

    If every bulb was switched to led and if every house was to be properly insulated, then the reduction in the demand for electricity just might lead to Electric Ireland stopping its turf-burning stations. Which would be really great for the environment.

    (Although the unemployed turf cutters and ESB workers mightn't be too impressed.)


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    #114
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »
    In fairness, the kid is right.

    If every bulb was switched to led and if every house was to be properly insulated, then the reduction in the demand for electricity just might lead to Electric Ireland stopping its turf-burning stations. Which would be really great for the environment.

    (Although the unemployed turf cutters and ESB workers mightn't be too impressed.)

    That won't stop the green party getting us to pay extortionate carbon taxes so the rich and their international corporations won't have to.

    Also where's all the massive power demands that electric cars are going to require come from ?


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    #115
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    Nobelium wrote: »

    Also where's all the massive power demands that electric cars are going to require come from ?

    Nuclear energy? ;)


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    #116
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Nobelium wrote: »
    That won't stop the green party getting us to pay extortionate carbon taxes so the rich and their international corporations won't have to.

    Also where's all the massive power demands that electric cars are going to require come from ?

    If you knew about the grid the biggest issue in Ireland and in the uk is peaks....in the UK they have the kettle issue which costs a fortune....the recent example I was given was the baking show on C4, at the break you might have 4 million + people flick on the kettle, this causes a huge power demand so they have to ramp up supply then bring it down....power supply companies want a level demand

    Car charging at night time will use over supply from wind electricity is one suggestion....also a 60kWh battery car will cover over 300km so would not require nightly charge, some percentage of population, maybe below 5% might still require combustion engines but a huge percentage in Dublin could swap today without any issues

    Smart meters will be able to assist with this transition


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    #117
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Shefwedfan wrote: »

    Car charging at night time will use over supply from wind electricity is one suggestion....also a 60kWh battery car will cover over 300km so would not require nightly charge, some percentage of population, maybe below 5% might still require combustion engines but a huge percentage in Dublin could swap today without any issues

    Smart meters will be able to assist with this transition

    The fossil fuel / nuclear power stations will be required to meet the demand if everyone they want to switches to electric cars. Also as soon they have enough people committed who can't easily switch back, the price of electricity will skyrocket.


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    #118
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »
    Nuclear energy? ;)

    Waves, wind and solar are all option. A irish company are experts in this area...they have more or less left now to work in Africa and Europe....says a lot


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    #119
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Dung. The fossil fuel / nuclear power stations will be required to meet the demand.

    Based on what?

    Do you have details of current and projected power requirements?

    As above a Irish company said they could power the whole of Europe with renewable power


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    #120
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Waves, wind and solar are all option. A irish company are experts in this area...they have more or less left now to work in Africa and Europe....says a lot

    renewable can assist, but are still never going to be able to meet the massive demands of the majority of cars going electric. Reminds me of the time, not so long ago, that the green party told us diesel cars were the way to go.


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    #121
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Nobelium wrote: »
    renewable can assist, but are still never going to be able to meet the massive demands of the majority of cars going electric. Reminds me of the time, not so long ago, that the green party told us diesel cars were the way to go.

    A few years ago people where told the car would never replace the horse....like your statement that is history

    https://www.mainstreamrp.com/

    Maybe have a read


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