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Predict Irish XXIII for 2023 RWC

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    #92
    Hands Like Flippers
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Hands Like Flippers


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    no chance. Irfu would never sign him or play him. Wouldnt be worth all the hassle it would bring.

    Pity.


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    #93
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Hands Like Flippers wrote: »
    Pity.

    He made his bed.


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    #94
    realhorrorshow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    Wales do consistently well without particularly impressive athletes, they just made a RWC semi with pretty much no ball carriers in the pack.


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    #95
    Hands Like Flippers
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Hands Like Flippers


    Faugheen wrote: »
    He made his bed.

    He certainly did. No forgiveness ever.


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    #96
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,963 ✭✭✭connachta


    realhorrorshow wrote: »
    Wales do consistently well without particularly impressive athletes, they just made a RWC semi with pretty much no ball carriers in the pack.


    And lost it because of that (by few, but lost)


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    #97
    ionadnapokot
    Registered Users Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    After RWC 1995 Corrigan, Wallace, Davidson, O’Kelly, Ward, Dawson, DO’C, Tierney, Humphreys, Mostyn, Maggs, BOD, & Bishop were the new caps in the starting XV at RWC 1999: 14 new caps. 14!!

    After RWC 1999 Hayes, Easterby, Gleeson, Stringer, O’Gara & Horgan in the starting XV at RWC 2003: 6 new caps

    After RWC 2003 Leamy was the only new cap in the starting XV at RWC 2011: 1 new cap

    After RWC 2007 Healy, Ross, SOB, Murray, Earls & Sexton(v Aus) in starting XV at RWC 2011: 6 new caps

    After RWC 2011 O’Mahony was the only new cap in the starting XV at RWC 2015: 1 new cap

    After RWC 2015 CJ, Stockdale, Aki & Ringrose were the new caps in the starting XV at RWC 2019: 4 new caps

    For RWC 2023? Maybe 5 or 6 new caps.
    Ireland need new blood at Hooker, SH, back three & in the back row. Could do with another LH and 12

    Very interested to se how Farrell goes about the 12 position.
    Having played there himself, his involvement with Burgess & experience under Joe - will it be bosh or guile?


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    #98
    realhorrorshow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    connachta wrote: »
    And lost it because of that (by few, but lost)

    Wales won the grand slam and then lost by 3 points to the World Champions in the semi while they were missing loads of players through injury. They did all this with players far less athletic than ours. The notion that filling our team with physical freaks is the key to success is silly.


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    #99
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,963 ✭✭✭connachta


    realhorrorshow wrote: »
    Wales won the grand slam and then lost by 3 points to the World Champions in the semi while they were missing loads of players through injury. They did all this with players far less athletic than ours. The notion that filling our team with physical freaks is the key to success is silly.




    yeah both finalist had the 2 most physical teams of the competition, but it's silly.
    Japan is the model, South-Africa gave them a huge physical beating during 2nd half, but you know, shinny rugby...

    Even when classic well-balanced rugby gets his triumph, it's about shinny rugby


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    #100
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Hooper and pocock are as far from center type atheletes as you could imagine???

    Peter SDT, world player of the year, is a bullocking 120kg 6' 6" monster who plays at seven.

    Michael Hooper is 20kg lighter and a whole 6" smaller

    I think you've got some things confused in your head.

    Just to correct this misunderstanding,
    PSDT wears no.7 but as is the custom in South Africa he plays blind side.
    So you must compare him to No. 6 on every other team.


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    #101
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,995 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    Just to correct this misunderstanding,
    PSDT wears no.7 but as is the custom in South Africa he plays blind side.
    So you must compare him to No. 6 on every other team.

    the whole argument of the person im arguing with is that they do not differentiate between the different positions and the core skill sets to play that position...

    so the comparison of very much valid, and actually is the whole point of my dissection of their argument.


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    #102
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,995 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Cork29 wrote: »

    Can you tell me a 6 6 120kg athlete we have currently for the backrow?

    tadhg beirne is 6' 6" and 114 kg.




    can you tell me a 6' 6" 120 kg backrower that plays for ANY other tier 1 team than South Africa?


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    #103
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Cork29 wrote: »
    Can you tell me a 6 6 120kg athlete we have currently for the backrow?

    Is there a 6'6" 120kg centre floating around that I'm unaware of? :confused:


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    #104
    realhorrorshow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    Cork29 wrote: »
    We always look down on Welsh players, but look at there CVs to ours on international terms.

    When the chips are down they usually beat us when we expect to win

    Are you not undercutting your own point? You’re saying wales usually beat us but they don’t have any 6’6 120kg athletes either.


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    #105
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    realhorrorshow wrote: »
    Are you not undercutting your own point? You’re saying wales usually beat us but they don’t have any 6’6 120kg athletes either.

    We'll be **** out of luck when they find a 6'7" 122kg fella though :pac:


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    #106
    ionadnapokot
    Registered Users Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Ruling out Leavy, P’OM, Murray & Henshaw because of injury profiles

    1. O’Sullivan
    2. Kelleher
    3. Furlong
    4. Henderson
    5. Ryan
    6. Beirne
    7. Penny
    8. Conan
    9. Casey
    10. Carbery
    11. Stockdale / Lowe
    12. ?? T.Farrell? C.Farrell? Convert an OH e.g. Frawely, Hawkshaw
    13. Ringrose
    14. Lowe / Larmour
    15. Larmour / Lowe

    16. Rhys Marshall
    17. Michael Milne
    18. Porter
    19. C.Ryan
    20. Dorris
    21. G-Park
    22. R.Byrne
    23. Lowry

    Not a RWC winning side.
    2011 was our best XV. A crying shame we played into the hands of the Welsh with RO'G & SO'B


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    #107
    realhorrorshow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    I'll have a go:

    1. Tom Clarkson (23)
    2. Rónan Kelleher (25)
    3. Tadhg Furlong (30)
    4. Iain Henderson (31)
    5. James Ryan (27)
    6. Dan Leavy (29)
    7. Josh van der Flier (30)
    8. Jack Conan (31)
    9. Craig Casey (24)
    10. Joey Carbery (27)
    11. Jacob Stockdale (27)
    12. Robbie Henshaw (30)
    13. Garry Ringrose (28)
    14. Andrew Conway (32)
    15. Jordan Larmour (26)

    Was kind of stuck for choices at loosehead due to Healy, Kilcoyne, and McGrath's age profiles. Do think that Leinster might switch one of tightheads over. Same with Kelleher, don't like to tip players for international caps before they've played in Europe but there's a big gap there for him to fill.

    There are loads of talented second and back rows all around the country but haven't seen enough of them to back them just yet.

    Went for Casey but wouldn't rule out Murray making a Healy-esque comeback. Went for Casey because I'm not fully convinced by any of the other options but think there's a good chance he might spend a lot of his early career as an impact sub. Went for a pretty boring selection from 10 out, I'm sure there'll be some players who will force their way into contention over the next few years but it's hard to know exactly who just now.


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    #108
    mogwai81
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭mogwai81


    1. Eric O’Sullivan
    2. Ronan Kelleher
    3. Tadhg Furlong
    4. Ryan Baird
    5. James Ryan
    6. Dan Leavy
    7. Josh van der Flier
    8. Jack Conan
    9. Craig Casey
    10. Joey Carbery
    11. Aaron Sexton
    12. Stuart McCloskey
    13. Gary Ringrose
    14. Jordan Larmour
    15. Jacob Stockdale


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    #109
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    mogwai81 wrote: »
    1. Eric O’Sullivan
    2. Ronan Kelleher
    3. Tadhg Furlong
    4. Ryan Baird
    5. James Ryan
    6. Dan Leavy
    7. Josh van der Flier
    8. Jack Conan
    9. Craig Casey
    10. Joey Carbery
    11. Aaron Sexton
    12. Stuart McCloskey
    13. Gary Ringrose
    14. Jordan Larmour
    15. Jacob Stockdale
    cant see any side being that dominated by leinster forwards.
    Would see wycherly, scannell pushing as well as some Ulster guys.


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    #110
    mogwai81
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭mogwai81


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    cant see any side being that dominated by leinster forwards.
    Would see wycherly, scannell pushing as well as some Ulster guys.

    Fair comment. I did notice that the forward pack was nearly entirely from Leinster. The likes of Henderson and Scannell could easily be first choice. I would love to see a ball carrying 6 come along between now and the next World Cup.


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    #111
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,284 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    mogwai81 wrote: »
    Fair comment. I did notice that the forward pack was nearly entirely from Leinster. The likes of Henderson and Scannell could easily be first choice. I would love to see a ball carrying 6 come along between now and the next World Cup.

    That backrow has a more than reasonable chance of not being even the Leinster backrow in 4 years time.


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    #112
    mogwai81
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭mogwai81


    salmocab wrote: »
    That backrow has a more than reasonable chance of not being even the Leinster backrow in 4 years time.

    Also true. The injury profiles of Leavy, van der Flier and Conan would make it unlikely. While Deegan, Doris, Penny, Murphy etc could overtake those in pole position at the moment.

    I think you can easily punch holes in any predicted team four years out. I just hope more players are replaced due to the younger players being better and not due to early retirements.


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    #113
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,137 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    E.o.s
    Kelleher
    Furlong
    Ryan
    Henderson
    Doris
    Penny
    O'Sullivan
    Casey
    Ben Healy
    Stockdale
    Hawkshaw
    Ringrose
    Wren
    Larmour

    Wycherly
    McBurney
    Porter
    Baird
    Deegan
    Luke
    Harry Byrne
    Lowry.


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    #114
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    Have you seen McCloskey clear a ruck that isn't just another back or jackal against an opposition backrow? Or take on a carry from the base of a ruck? Or pack down in a scrum? Lift in a lineout?

    They're all fundamental skills that a backrow needs and are something that some players will just pick up in a handful of training sessions. For the players safety too, you can't just slap them into those kind of positions open to clear outs without the correct body position or else they'll be folded, the amount of serious injuries that occur to top level backrows like Leavy, Warburton etc who have played there for years. On top of that, Ulster have no requirement for McCloskey to play 6, why would they agree to it?

    I think there are a selection of positions that lend to changing between:

    1, 2, 3

    4,5,6,7,8

    9,10,12,15

    11,12,13,14,15

    Not sure you can easily swap between prop and out half for example or indeed scrum half and any position in the forwards


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    #115
    BakeMeACake
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭BakeMeACake


    The entire Dublin 9 in a row GAA team maybe


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    #116
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    JJJackal wrote: »
    I think there are a selection of positions that lend to changing between:

    1, 2, 3

    4,5,6,7,8

    9,10,12,15

    11,12,13,14,15

    Not sure you can easily swap between prop and out half for example or indeed scrum half and any position in the forwards
    you can move backrow to front row. Regularly happens for those who wont progress further in backrow due to size so become hookers especially.

    Wouldnt agree with 9 and 12 as well. Would see 9 with 11, 14 as well...


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