Predict Irish XXIII for 2023 RWC

Cork29

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'd say O'Driscoll would have been an excellent openside flank forward.

Here here

jacothelad

FFS. There is not enough air getting in.

Cork29

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Have you seen McCloskey clear a ruck that isn't just another back or jackal against an opposition backrow? Or take on a carry from the base of a ruck? Or pack down in a scrum? Lift in a lineout?

They're all fundamental skills that a backrow needs and are something that some players will just pick up in a handful of training sessions. For the players safety too, you can't just slap them into those kind of positions open to clear outs without the correct body position or else they'll be folded, the amount of serious injuries that occur to top level backrows like Leavy, Warburton etc who have played there for years. On top of that, Ulster have no requirement for McCloskey to play 6, why would they agree to it?

Have you seen McCloskey clear a ruck that isn't just another back or jackal against an opposition backrow? Or take on a carry from the base of a ruck? Or pack down in a scrum? Lift in a lineout?

To reply to this who knows? He could be awesome. Lets test it out that is what i am saying

Clegg

Cork29 wrote: »

They have 4 years to get them ready, with a 6 2 split on bench like South Africa, they need to be able to play 50mins if starting 30 if finishing

The entire point of my post is that Farrell and McCloskey would be radically different players if they were in the backrow. They wouldn't be making big bursting runs and skittling over defenders. They'd be running at equally big men, again and again. They game would be much more measured and significantly less explosive.

Cork29

Clegg wrote: »

The entire point of my post is that Farrell and McCloskey would be radically different players if they were in the backrow. They wouldn't be making big bursting runs and skittling over defenders. They'd be running at equally big men, again and again. They game would be much more measured and significantly less explosive.

Stephen Ferris and Sean OB that is what they did when they were fit.

Farrell, McCloskey have this same type of speed and power. I suspect they are faster then most forwards.

What i am saying is we need to get more explosive athletes in the team these are 2 examples that have potential to get in a team and add this

salmocab

Again why would players give up a few years for an experiment and risk mucking up their careers not to mention why why would a province pick someone out of position consistently over someone who can do it?
They’ll look at Jordan coughlan and see how it went for him

Cork29

salmocab wrote: »

Again why would players give up a few years for an experiment and risk mucking up their careers not to mention why why would a province pick someone out of position consistently over someone who can do it?
They’ll look at Jordan coughlan and see how it went for him

How many matches he play for Leinster/Munster maybe he simply not good enough.

Sam arnold where is his career going at the moment?

Clegg

Cork29 wrote: »

Stephen Ferris and Sean OB that is what they did when they were fit.

Farrell, McCloskey have this same type of speed and power. I suspect they are faster then most forwards.

What i am saying is we need to get more explosive athletes in the team these are 2 examples that have potential to get in a team and add this

You've just completely ignored everything I posted.

Suppose I've only myself to blame for getting sucked in.

Cork29

Clegg wrote: »

You've just completely ignored everything I posted.

Suppose I've only myself to blame for getting sucked in.

I think i have replied to your points.

Please put what you want a reply on and i will reply to all issues raised

sydthebeat

Cork29..

If you want to watch a team of homogeneous 'explosive' atheletes bang heads off each other... Which doesn't need particular set piece skill.... Then I've great news for you.

There's already a sport out there which does that.

sydthebeat

Cork29 wrote: »

They have 4 years to get them ready, with a 6 2 split on bench like South Africa, they need to be able to play 50mins if starting 30 if finishing

We do that and we're four years behind everyone else, at least!

I'd prefer to see us turn to a more expansive as that's how I see the future of rugby going. I think Cullen and Lancaster in Leinster have the right idea of moving the point of contact and being comfortable to make decisions in chaos. I want clever rugby played, not head banging stuff that we've seen lately.

Anyway, there's no way you can convert a club first team center into an international back row.... No club would agree to such upheavel

You target the players at younger ages into positions which suit....

Cork29

sydthebeat wrote: »

Cork29..

If you want to watch a team of homogeneous 'explosive' atheletes bang heads off each other... Which doesn't need particular set piece skill.... Then I've great news for you.

There's already a sport out there which does that.

i just want us to be able to match England,South africa, australia etc they are selecting these type of athletes

Cork29

sydthebeat wrote: »

We do that and we're four years behind everyone else, at least!

I'd prefer to see us turn to a more expansive as that's how I see the future of rugby going. I think Cullen and Lancaster in Leinster have the right idea of moving the point of contact and being comfortable to make decisions in chaos. I want clever rugby played, not head banging stuff that we've seen lately.

Anyway, there's no way you can convert a club first team center into an international back row.... No club would agree to such upheavel

You target the players at younger ages into positions which suit....

with the players i mentioned would be far more expansive for sure.

Need athletes to play expansive rugby

sydthebeat

Cork29 wrote: »

i just want us to be able to match England,South africa, australia etc they are selecting these type of athletes

Hooper and pocock are as far from center type atheletes as you could imagine???

Peter SDT, world player of the year, is a bullocking 120kg 6' 6" monster who plays at seven.

Michael Hooper is 20kg lighter and a whole 6" smaller

I think you've got some things confused in your head.

sydthebeat

Cork29 wrote: »

with the players i mentioned would be far more expansive for sure.

Need athletes to play expansive rugby

Serious question.

Do you think the Irish team is small??

sydthebeat

Cork29 wrote: »

with the players i mentioned would be far more expansive for sure.

Need athletes to play expansive rugby

You need skill to secure your set piece.

We've just seen what one team can do to another in one facet of the game... And win a world title.

Go over and watch some rugby league... As it sounds like that's what you are looking for.

salmocab

Cork29 wrote: »

How many matches he play for Leinster/Munster maybe he simply not good enough.

Sam arnold where is his career going at the moment?

Maybe he isn’t but maybe he would have been without the experiment. I can’t see players taking that risk, especially guys like Mc closkey the chance of success is tiny compared with the chance of it stalling someone’s career.

Cork29

sydthebeat wrote: »

Hooper and pocock are as far from center type atheletes as you could imagine???

Peter SDT, world player of the year, is a bullocking 120kg 6' 6" monster who plays at seven.

Michael Hooper is 20kg lighter and a whole 6" smaller

I think you've got some things confused in your head.

Yes we on the same page now

Peter SDT, world player of the year, is a bullocking 120kg 6' 6" monster who plays at SIX. Farrell or mccloskey could be our bullocking 120kg 6' 6" monster.

Sam Arnold more in the Hooper build. If Dan Leavy makes it back a great athlere

Cork29

salmocab wrote: »

Maybe he isn’t but maybe he would have been without the experiment. I can’t see players taking that risk, especially guys like Mc closkey the chance of success is tiny compared with the chance of it stalling someone’s career.

Where is McCloskey career going?

Same for Sam arnold, with new signing 4th choice centre in Munster.

Hands Like Flippers

Hayden Hyde in the current Ulster Academy was a back rower who now plays 12 or 13.

Cork 29 is IMHO over stating his argument for emphasis but I do agree re athletes but don't think they all need to be massive. Take Kolbe and Faf De Klerk. Both miles ahead of the incumbents who we played at the WC in their respective positions. I know Murray used to be the best etc but right now he looks pedestrian compared to FDK or GD of Wales etc with their speed etc.

Agree re younger players being easier to move around but I'm pretty sure this goes on already in underage teams. I believe there is now a massive push for athletic performance in underage stuff at provincial and national level. Hopefully it will pay dividends later. After all Tom Curry watched the last WC from the common room at school.

Hands Like Flippers

Cork29 wrote: »

Where is McCloskey career going?

Same for Sam arnold, with new signing 4th choice centre in Munster.

Mccloskey is first choice 12 at Ulster tbf and good for it as well. Forging a good career at his native province. Pity Farrell hadn't been allowed to stay. That would have been a great partnership.

Look the next coach coming in might really fancy Mccloskey for Ireland. Look at Trimble. He couldn't get a fair hearing under the previous coach. Straight back under Joe and was player of the 6 nations the next year I believe.

Hands Like Flippers

Is Jackson a possibility now? Or is he forever banished?

The Lost Sheep

Cork29 wrote: »

Bingo that is the point i am making. You understand me at last.

The main issue is the quality of athlete we had on the pitch. Not enough explosive athletes.

Who in the pack would you consider a ball carry in the pack bar James Ryan. CJ yes a few years ago anymore.

If we are to make a impression at world level we need our best athletes on the pitcch.

I am sorry to say ball carrying was a major issue

you can keep repeating same sentences but when unable to back it up properly you are wasting everyone's time. Furlong and several others also good carriers. These players wouldnt be able to suddenly be big ball carriers if forwards as they would have to do so much other work.

Cork29 wrote: »

Can you show me any clips at this world cup of these players ball carrying?

As i keep saying we need to get explosive athletes on the pitch was have some that can be worked in

Brian Corcoran, Diarmuid Osullivan lots more examples if you are a hurler you can play anywhere. Same wiith rugby.

it isnt the case with rugby at all that you can play anywhere. Skillset varies hugely per position.

Cork29 wrote: »

They have 4 years to get to the world cup, can they not be trained to play the position?

Has Ireland ever won a knock out match in the world cup in pretty much a 8 team competition? Need to think outside the box. Get the best/explosive athletes trained up...

4 yeas isnt right to change. Why would provinces agree to this?
we havent won a knock out game. This wouldn't change this

Cork29 wrote: »

How is it dangerous.

I am saying we switch players, get our best athletes on the pitch?

Have you seen the size of Mccloskey, have you seen him off load this is the kind of athlete we need. Have you seen his ball carrying. Simple as.

I do not think he gets in the team in current position. For a number 6 he could be unreal with his skill set.

I am not saying give him number 6 jersey now

it isnt hat simple. Your whole mindset is different as a back compared to a forward. Mccloskey is big but that doesnt mean he would be good as a backrowr. His offloading etc make him an excellent back and he wouldnt be able to do a lot of what he is good at if he went into forwards

The Lost Sheep

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Is Jackson a possibility now? Or is he forever banished?

no chance. Irfu would never sign him or play him. Wouldnt be worth all the hassle it would bring.

Cork29

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you can keep repeating same sentences but when unable to back it up properly you are wasting everyone's time. Furlong and several others also good carriers. These players wouldnt be able to suddenly be big ball carriers if forwards as they would have to do so much other work.
it isnt the case with rugby at all that you can play anywhere. Skillset varies hugely per position.

4 yeas isnt right to change. Why would provinces agree to this?
we havent won a knock out game. This wouldn't change this

it isnt hat simple. Your whole mindset is different as a back compared to a forward. Mccloskey is big but that doesnt mean he would be good as a backrowr. His offloading etc make him an excellent back and he wouldnt be able to do a lot of what he is good at if he went into forwards

That is why i am saying to experiment, make a 6th choice player for Ireland a number 1 in a new position. He could be the worst back row player ever but so what or else he could be a rockstar back row player.

sydthebeat

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

..... After all Tom Curry watched the last WC from the common room at school.

as did jordan larmour...

if youre good enough, your good enough... you cant say ireland doesn't give youth a chance. we dont have the player pool to be so picky.

and while we're on player pool... England have approx 450% more senior males playing rugby than ireland.. SA have approx 350% more.

we simply do not produce the number of huge physical specimens like SA, as they have the dutch gene as a plus as well...

Cork29

sydthebeat wrote: »

Serious question.

Do you think the Irish team is small??

i never said they where small, just a lot are not dynamic athletes.

Compare or hooker to any other team. See Cian Healy art 43 mins againist Japan.

Our dynamic players have too much mileage on the clock like sander, omahney etc

sydthebeat

Cork29 wrote: »

i never said they where small, just a lot are not dynamic athletes.

Compare or hooker to any other team. See Cian Healy art 43 mins againist Japan.

Our dynamic players have too much mileage on the clock like sander, omahney etc

your drunk... go home...

Cork29

sydthebeat wrote: »

your drunk... go home...

expalin this.

Can you show me any footage from the world cup of any of our forwards ripping it up?

sydthebeat

Cork29 wrote: »

expalin this.

who are sander, omahney ?

Cork29 wrote: »

Can you show me any footage from the world cup of any of our forwards ripping it up?

did i argue that we were doing this ??? no i didnt

read the posts which counter your ones... you might learn something