Predict Irish XXIII for 2023 RWC

Richie_Rich89

1. Healy
2. Scannell
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Ryan
6. O'Mahony
7. van der Flier
8. Stander
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Stockdale
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Earls
15. Kearney

16. Herring
17. Kilcoyne
18. Porter
19. Henderson
20. Murphy
21. McGrath
22. Carbery
23. Larmour

Squidgy Black

1. Eric O'Sullivan
2. Ronan Kelleher
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. James Ryan
5. Iain Henderson
6. Dan Leavy
7. Josh Van der Flier
8. Jack Conan
9. Conor Murray
10. Joey Carbery
11. James Lowe
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Shane Daly
15. Jordan Larmour

16. Adam McBurney
17. Jack McGrath
18. Andrew Porter
19. Ryan Baird
20. Scott Penny
21. Jamieson Gibson Park
22. Harry Byrne
23. Jacob Stockdale

Wegians89

1. Eric o Sullivan
2. Kelleher
3. Furlong
4. Gallagher
5. Ryan
6. Leavy
7. Vdf/ penny
8. Conan
9. Casey
10. H. Byrne
11. Lowe
12. Robb
13. Ringrose
14. Larmour
15. Carbery

16. Tierney-Martin
17. McGrath
18. Porter
19. Henderson
20. O Donofhue
21. Blade
22. Henshaw
23. Stockdale

awec

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Scannell
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Ryan
6. O'Mahony
7. van der Flier
8. Stander
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Stockdale
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Earls
15. Kearney

16. Herring
17. Kilcoyne
18. Porter
19. Henderson
20. Murphy
21. McGrath
22. Carbery
23. Larmour

If I see a 37 year old Rob Kearney tog out for Ireland at full back I'm officially done.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

If I see a 37 year old Rob Kearney tog out for Ireland at full back I'm officially done.

Alongside a 36 year old Earls, 38 year old Sexton and 37 year old Toner no less.

Richie_Rich89

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Alongside a 36 year old Earls, 38 year old Sexton and 37 year old Toner no less.

Sexton has spoken about wanting to be like Tom Brady and play on till he's 40. Sportspeople in general are keeping going much longer than decades ago. There are loads of top level boxers in their mid or even late 30s. Look at Justin Gatlin winning a World Championships silver medal in the 100m at the age of 37. No reason Earls and Kearney can't keep going for another four years.

awec

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Sexton has spoken about wanting to be like Tom Brady and play on till he's 40. Sportspeople in general are keeping going much longer than decades ago. There are loads of top level boxers in their mid or even late 30s. Look at Justin Gatlin winning a World Championships silver medal in the 100m at the age of 37. No reason Earls and Kearney can't keep going for another four years.

You better convince me that you're not trolling at this stage.

The Lost Sheep

On my phone but can someone edit in the threads from 2011 for the 2015 world cup and same from 2015 for this competition

ClanofLams

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

On my phone but can someone edit in the threads from 2011 for the 2015 world cup and same from 2015 for this competition

2019 https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057474430/1

2015 https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056389107

Hanrahan at 15 with Rory Scholes on the wing for ‘19 and McFadden at 12 with a second row combination of Nagle and Tuohy for 2015, predictions taken from the first team in each thread show how ridiculous it is to try this. But a bit of craic I suppose.

jay0109

5 Clongowes
4 Blackrock
3 St Michaels
1 Gonzaga
1 Newbridge
1 King's Hospital

Guaranteed victory

Squidgy Black

Reading back through the 2019 thread, almost everyone had Marty Moore starting, the move to Wasps was really a terrible decision for him.

Also the below jem from IBF:

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If you put a player into this thread who has yet to play for their province, you curse them. That is a fact. And I know this because I did it to players myself.

Hard luck Jordan Larmour and James Ryan, I had high hopes for you.

gally74

My prediction,

4 players traveled injured,

7 players travel on poor form but have central contracts,

10 get left st home as they never got consistent enough exposure, not 10 mins here n there

Muligatawney

McGrath (33)
Scannell (31)
Furlong (30)
Henderson (31)
Ryan (27)
Leavy (29)
van der Flier (30)
Conan (31)
Marmion (31)
Carbery (27)
Stockdale (27)
Henshaw (30)
Ringrose (28)
Lowe (31)
Larmour (26)

Kelleher (25)
O'Sullivan (27)
Porter (27)
Dillane (29)
Deegan (27)
McGrath (30)
Lowry (25)
Addison (31)

Richie_Rich89

Thinking of predicting future teams, I think the 2023 RWC will come a bit too soon for Joe Tomane. To qualify for Ireland through the Olympic 7s loophole he'd first need citizenship, which he'd be eligible for in Summer 2023. Then he'd need to play in four Olympic qualifying 7s events to be able to switch his allegiance to Ireland. But if it's the same as it was this time the qualifying events for Paris 2024 will take place too early in 2023 for him to be qualified, so he'll have to wait until 2027 to qualify. But he should be an option in the green jumper for the 2027 tournament in Argentina, Australia or Russia anyway.

Tomane being away on international duty with Ireland from 2027 onwards would finally open the door for Conor O'Brien to get the gametime he needs to develop at age 31.

macslash

You were going well there for a while..

DonVito

1. Callum Reid
2. Ronan Kelleher
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Iain Henderson
5. James Ryan
6. Dan Leavy
7. Josh Van der Flier
8. Jack Conan
9. Conor Murray
10. Joey Carbery
11. Jacob Stockdale
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Aaron Sexton
15. Will Addison

Honourable Mentions: Jack Boyle, James Lowe, Harry Byrne & Ryan Baird

Not to toot my own horn here but I got 10/15 the last time we did this. Were it not for injury I should have had 11/15.

salmocab

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Reading back through the 2019 thread, almost everyone had Marty Moore starting, the move to Wasps was really a terrible decision for him.

Also the below jem from IBF:

To be fair that Furlong would have knocked him at both Leinster and Ireland anyway.

Cork29

If i was the manager my number 1 goal would to be get the 15 best athletes on the pitch. We have plenty of big men not as first choice.

These players will prob not be first choice ever in the centre.

In this 4 year cycle i would convert Stuart McCloskey to a back row position. He is sized up all ready, speed good hands etc.

Born: August 6, 1992 (age 27 years), Bangor, United Kingdom
Height: 1.93 m
Weight: 111 kg

Same with Chris Farrell

Born: March 16, 1993 (age 26 years), Belfast, United Kingdom
Height: 1.91 m
Weight: 110 kg

Same with Sam Arnold

Born: April 8, 1996 (age 23 years), Surrey, United Kingdom
Height: 1.83 m
Weight: 95 kg

The Lost Sheep

Cork29 wrote: »

If i was the manager my number 1 goal would to be get the 15 best athletes on the pitch. We have plenty of big men not as first choice.

These players will prob not be first choice ever in the centre.

In this 4 year cycle i would convert Stuart McCloskey to a back row position. He is sized up all ready, speed good hands etc.

Born: August 6, 1992 (age 27 years), Bangor, United Kingdom
Height: 1.93 m
Weight: 111 kg

Same with Chris Farrell

Born: March 16, 1993 (age 26 years), Belfast, United Kingdom
Height: 1.91 m
Weight: 110 kg

Same with Sam Arnold

Born: April 8, 1996 (age 23 years), Surrey, United Kingdom
Height: 1.83 m
Weight: 95 kg

I dont get why you would do that.

Getting best athletes on pitch is first but you need to look at basics of a position as well and these wouldnt do in the backrow.
Why do we need to be going way of getting all big men in the team.

Cork29

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont get why you would do that.

Getting best athletes on pitch is first but you need to look at basics of a position as well and these wouldnt do in the backrow.
Why do we need to be going way of getting all big men in the team.

These are big men with serious speed also, that is the difference better athletes than say Peter O'Ma.

Can you tell me why they would not do in the backrow?

They have 4 years to be ready for a world cup.

The Lost Sheep

Cork29 wrote: »

These are big men with serious speed also, that is the difference better athletes than say Peter O'Ma.

Can you tell me why they would not do in the backrow?

They have 4 years to be ready for a world cup.

Peter o mahony is an excellent athlete
And they've never played backrow. You have a very different outlook to playing the game in backrow to centre.they are big but that doesnt mean they'll be any good in backrow. Care to show why other than them being big and quick(quick compared to who btw) that they would be good in backrow?

Cork29

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Peter o mahony is an excellent athlete
And they've never played backrow. You have a very different outlook to playing the game in backrow to centre.they are big but that doesnt mean they'll be any good in backrow. Care to show why other than them being big and quick(quick compared to who btw) that they would be good in backrow?

This is why i would convert 3 or more if possible, those players are not the future in centre you agree with that? If 1 or 2 works out we hit the jackpot.

Compared to Peter OMahony all 3 have would burn him speed wise.

Podge_irl

Has outright speed generally been a key factor in playing number 6?

Cork29

Podge_irl wrote: »

Has outright speed generally been a key factor in playing number 6?

Look up Stephen Ferris in youtube.

Ardie Savea, Tom curry serious athletes

Podge_irl

Cork29 wrote: »

Look up Stephen Ferris in youtube.

I don't need to, I've seen him play plenty. First of all, his main asset was not his speed and secondly none of the players you mention have the remotest chance of ever being anything like him. Why on earth you think Ulster or Munster would even entertain both losing good centres and putting up with **** backrows for a number of years is beyond me.

This is about as good an idea as moving Jordan Coughlan to number 12 was.

Cork29

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't need to, I've seen him play plenty. First of all, his main asset was not his speed and secondly none of the players you mention have the remotest chance of ever being anything like him. Why on earth you think Ulster or Munster would even entertain both losing good centres and putting up with **** backrows for a number of years is beyond me.

This is about as good an idea as moving Jordan Coughlan to number 12 was.

What was his main asset..

He was a freak, strong fast etc. Same build as Farrell etc

How you know they are **** backrows what are they missing?

Also are any the 3 players i mentioned good enough for starting centre for Ireland?

Podge_irl

I would conjecture that any player who has never once played a professional game in the backrow, or anywhere in the forward pack, will be pretty **** when they try.

Cork29

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would conjecture that any player who has never once played a professional game in the backrow, or anywhere in the forward pack, will be pretty **** when they try.

Short term view..... I agree but maybe in 4 years time they be world class?

aloooof

Cork29 wrote: »

Short term view..... I agree but maybe in 4 years time they be world class?

If this is such a good idea, presumably you can name countless players who have transitioned from centre to world class backrows in a 4 year cycle?

Mr Tickle

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would conjecture that any player who has never once played a professional game in the backrow, or anywhere in the forward pack, will be pretty **** when they try.

I know it's lunch time but maybe don't feed the trolls

Cork29

aloooof wrote: »

If this is such a good idea, presumably you can name countless players who have transitioned from centre to world class backrows in a 4 year cycle?

I can name a team that has never won a knockout world cup match.

Did we have out best 15 athletes on the pitch sadly no

We need to try something?

The Lost Sheep

Cork29 wrote: »

I can name a team that has never won a knockout world cup match.

Did we have out best 15 athletes on the pitch sadly no

We need to try something?

we do but moving guys who've never been backs to centre is not the answer. It would be ridiculous to try it.
And can you name players who were pros and were converted from backrow to centre. Plenty done it at age grade but if it was this simple then you have plenty of successful examples

Quin_Dub

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

we do but moving guys who've never been backs to centre is not the answer. It would be ridiculous to try it.
And can you name players who were pros and were converted from backrow to centre. Plenty done it at age grade but if it was this simple then you have plenty of successful examples

This exactly - I absolutely think we should be looking at the current top prospect 18/19 year olds and having discussions about this kind of thing. Trying to move a 25 yr old is WAY too late.

Cork29

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

we do but moving guys who've never been backs to centre is not the answer. It would be ridiculous to try it.
And can you name players who were pros and were converted from backrow to centre. Plenty done it at age grade but if it was this simple then you have plenty of successful examples

We have a small pick the players i mentioned will not be playing centre for ireland in 4 years time

The way rugby is played less of a difference between backs and forwards.

Brian O’Driscoll one of the best for poaching a ball etc

The Lost Sheep

Quin_Dub wrote: »

This exactly - I absolutely think we should be looking at the current top prospect 18/19 year olds and having discussions about this kind of thing. Trying to move a 25 yr old is WAY too late.

25 is too late for pro rugby but you can see it happen at AIL level albeit very irregularly

Cork29 wrote: »

We have a small pick the players i mentioned will not be playing centre for ireland in 4 years time

The way rugby is played less of a difference between backs and forwards.

Brian O’Driscoll one of the best for poaching a ball etc

there is still huge differences though and yes o Driscoll was excellent at turning ball over that doesnt mean he would have made an excellent backrow.
Are you going to provide examples to back your point up then?

Cork29

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

25 is too late for pro rugby but you can see it happen at AIL level albeit very irregularly

there is still huge differences though and yes o Driscoll was excellent at turning ball over that doesnt mean he would have made an excellent backrow.
Are you going to provide examples to back your point up then?

I can not give you examples.

We have such a small pool of players every effort should be made to make best use.

So what if it now work out what is lost. The players i mentioned are not going to be first choice in the centre.

I even go as far as say sam aronold is 4 if not 5 choice in his position at munster.

We need to have our best most dynamic players on the pitch simple

The Lost Sheep

Cork29 wrote: »

I can not give you examples.

We have such a small pool of players every effort should be made to make best use.

So what if it now work out what is lost. The players i mentioned are not going to be first choice in the centre.

I even go as far as say sam aronold is 4 if not 5 choice in his position at munster.

We need to have our best most dynamic players on the pitch simple

this wouldn't be best use of players. They may not be first choice centres but would be nowhere near good enough as backrow. You cant just say these would be better than actual out and out backrows. They're not more dynamic than many backrows or at least you cant show they would be more influential on games than guys who've always played backrow

cson

Sure why don't we just start practicing eugenics and be done with it? Lab grown players for each position.

Cork29

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

this wouldn't be best use of players. They may not be first choice centres but would be nowhere near good enough as backrow. You cant just say these would be better than actual out and out backrows. They're not more dynamic than many backrows or at least you cant show they would be more influential on games than guys who've always played backrow[/quot


How can you say not best use of players ? Did you see us at the world cup we were like a limp biscuit. We need some wrecking balls hard running ball carrriers.

These players are international centres i would be quite sure they have the skillset

The Lost Sheep

Cork29 wrote: »

How can you say not best use of players? Did you see us at the world cup we were like a limp biscuit. We need some wrecking balls hard running ball carrriers.

These players are international centres i would be quite sure they have the skillset

maybe we do. But moving guys from centre isnt thebanswer and suggesting it shows a complete lack of awareness of both the players and the positions and how tough it would be to change position. It wasnt wrecking ball ball carriers that we were lacking. It was a lot more than that

salmocab

I’m sure the players would be delighted to see their careers go down the spout for an experiment.

Cork29

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

maybe we do. But moving guys from centre isnt thebanswer and suggesting it shows a complete lack of awareness of both the players and the positions and how tough it would be to change position. It wasnt wrecking ball ball carriers that we were lacking. It was a lot more than that

Bingo that is the point i am making. You understand me at last.

The main issue is the quality of athlete we had on the pitch. Not enough explosive athletes.

Who in the pack would you consider a ball carry in the pack bar James Ryan. CJ yes a few years ago anymore.

If we are to make a impression at world level we need our best athletes on the pitcch.

I am sorry to say ball carrying was a major issue

sydthebeat

We're very close to shark jumping territory here.

We had plenty of ball carrying threat up front. Healy furlong and porter often make good ground around the fringes when playing for Leinster. Henderson is a fantastic explosive ball carrier, one of his main strengths. Ryan simply never goes backwards in the tight. CJ obviously can do it, Conan is great in the loose. It's not JVDFs main strength but the guy has serious wheels. POM was a winger at an earlier age, but concentrates not these days on creating space for others. Leavy is very powerful and fast, hopefully he can get back to those levels. Jordi has shown in top level games he has that in his locker as well.

The problem is for the last 4 years we haven't been playing in a way which exploits this. We have been, up to now hopefully, a very much risk averse possession based team. This isn't down to not having the players to play another way.... But rather down to getting the best results on a particular day.

Joes gone. We don't know yet how farrell will set up his team.

But we certainly do not need knee jerk reactions of getting to turn centers into flankers.... Competely different skill sets required, and instincts, for both which are honed over years....

Its not like gaa where you throw a full back up full forward and hope he shines....

Cork29

sydthebeat wrote: »

We're very close to shark jumping territory here.

We had plenty of ball carrying threat up front. Healy furlong and porter often make good ground around the fringes when playing for Leinster. Henderson is a fantastic explosive ball carrier, one of his main strengths. Ryan simply never goes backwards in the tight. CJ obviously can do it, Conan is great in the loose. It's not JVDFs main strength but the guy has serious wheels. POM was a winger at an earlier age, but concentrates not these days on creating space for others. Leavy is very powerful and fast, hopefully he can get back to those levels. Jordi has shown in top level games he has that in his locker as well.

The problem is for the last 4 years we haven't been playing in a way which exploits this. We have been, up to now hopefully, a very much risk averse possession based team. This isn't down to not having the players to play another way.... But rather down to getting the best results on a particular day.

Joes gone. We don't know yet how farrell will set up his team.

But we certainly do not need knee jerk reactions of getting to turn centers into flankers.... Competely different skill sets required, and instincts, for both which are honed over years....

Its not like gaa where you throw a full back up full forward and hope he shines....

Can you show me any clips at this world cup of these players ball carrying?

As i keep saying we need to get explosive athletes on the pitch was have some that can be worked in

Brian Corcoran, Diarmuid Osullivan lots more examples if you are a hurler you can play anywhere. Same wiith rugby.

Faugheen

Cork29 wrote: »

Brian Corcoran, Diarmuid Osullivan lots more examples if you are a hurler you can play anywhere. Same wiith rugby.

You can’t.

Stop this nonsense. You’ve clearly never played a game of rugby before.

sydthebeat

Cork29 wrote: »

Can you show me any clips at this world cup of these players ball carrying?

As i keep saying we need to get explosive athletes on the pitch was have some that can be worked in

Brian Corcoran, Diarmuid Osullivan lots more examples if you are a hurler you can play anywhere. Same wiith rugby.

If you think that's comparable with rugby, the your knowledge is extremely limited.

aloooof

Cork29 wrote: »

Brian Corcoran, Diarmuid Osullivan lots more examples if you are a hurler you can play anywhere. Same wiith rugby.

It’s really not the same. It’s even written into the laws of the game, when it comes to props. You’re literally prevented from playing anywhere.

Cork29

Faugheen wrote: »

You can’t.

Stop this nonsense. You’ve clearly never played a game of rugby before.

They have 4 years to get to the world cup, can they not be trained to play the position?

Has Ireland ever won a knock out match in the world cup in pretty much a 8 team competition? Need to think outside the box. Get the best/explosive athletes trained up...

Cork29

aloooof wrote: »

It’s really not the same. It’s even written into the laws of the game, when it comes to props. You’re literally prevented from playing anywhere.

Did i mention props/ hooker? 3 positions out of 15

The players i mentioned not being switched to specialized position.

When a forward sin binned usually a back added to scrum to make up the numbers.

Cork29

sydthebeat wrote: »

If you think that's comparable with rugby, the your knowledge is extremely limited.

Show me the clips of ball carrying at this years world cup?

Stephen Ferris explosive athlete and ball carrier in his day, same Sean O Br.

We need to get these kind of players, explosive athletes back in the team.

sydthebeat

Cork29 wrote: »

They have 4 years to get to the world cup, can they not be trained to play the position?

Has Ireland ever won a knock out match in the world cup in pretty much a 8 team competition? Need to think outside the box. Get the best/explosive athletes trained up...

Do you not realise that players hone skills over many years... And that rugby positions have VERY specific skills for certain positions??

Do you not also realise that players are directed towards certain positions in their development which suits their skills, physique and temperment??

I'm going to suggest you don't realise this.... As you're gaa analogy shows.

I'll also repeat that our poor RWC performance was as much, if not more, the result of the style of play we employed.. Than the players we played.

If you watched our players regularly you'd see that they are all capable of being strong back carriers.