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Comments

  • #752
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But don't forget that battery life depends on many factors , improve the chemistry to better withstand some of those factors and you improve more than cycle life.

    Absolutely true, yes.
    And the i3 is going to be one of the best of the lot I’d say. It will outlive the car, most likely.

    All I’m saying is I don’t believe 100% SoH , that’s all. There is degradation no matter how good it is.


  • #753
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    KCross wrote: »
    It will outlive the car, most likely.

    Almost all lithium batteries will outlive the cars. I'll go one further. Even batteries that fail under warranty (there will be very few of these) will have a useful second life as grid / home attached storage

    You are right of course stating that batteries start degrading straight away. The degradation might be very small though. I.e. I charge my car maybe twice a week and rarely when it is really empty. So now after over two years owning it, it has only done about 200 cycles. In Ireland's mild climate. I't quite likely it's still at about 98-99% SOH

    I'm also with you on the 100% being reported. I don't believe that. Particularly not in the case of high mileage 2 year old Ioniqs in colder countries like say Canada.

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  • #754
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    unkel wrote: »
    Almost all lithium batteries will outlive the cars. I'll go one further. Even batteries that fail under warranty (there will be very few of these) will have a useful second life as grid / home attached storage

    True. Probably any EV built since 2013 will be in that bracket. Particularly if you use the average age of ICE today, which I think is about 13yrs.


  • #755
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I believe it because it gives me the same range to 50 % same routes same driving style. The leaf did not after 3 years and I reached low battery earlier in my commute by the time I got rid of it.

    Possibly a better buffer than the Leaf, which as we know is bare minimum. To really show KC's point, the Ampera has a massive buffer, comparatively speaking: 6kwh out of 16.5kwh. So over say a 15 year period the battery will probably still show 100% capacity, even though maybe 5kwh (30%) has been lost. No current lithium battery tech is immune from degradation. Fact.


  • #756
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    If you never let your Ampera battery go below 25% and do average mileage it will still have 75% capacity after 40 years :)

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  • #757
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Possibly a better buffer than the Leaf, which as we know is bare minimum. To really show KC's point, the Ampera has a massive buffer, comparatively speaking: 6kwh out of 16.5kwh. So over say a 15 year period the battery will probably still show 100% capacity, even though maybe 5kwh (30%) has been lost. No current lithium battery tech is immune from degradation. Fact.

    Lithium-titanate is


  • #758
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No lithium battery is immune from degradation but batteries have Improved since the 24 kwh leaf.

    As I said , small changes can have big impacts.

    Higher cycle life along with more kwh means cycle life probably increases two fold as more Kwh means less cycling along with increased cycle life.

    Better temperature resistance , lower internal resistance etc so it’s easy to see that the I3 May very well still have 100% of its capacity or maybe 0.1% loss etc.


  • #759
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    If you never let your Ampera battery go below 25% and do average mileage it will still have 75% capacity after 40 years :)
    The ampera battery never goes below about 25% anyway as just under 10kWh is available from 16kWh gross


  • #760
    Patser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,081 ✭✭✭Patser


    So would it be seen as obligatory for an i3 driver to give a friendly wave to another i3 driver if passing.

    I've often had niche cars, and usually would if I seen someone else in a same type, when I'd a Pug 205 it was practically obligatory to stop and chat (and look for parts).

    But just waved to a 172 black i3 driver in Dublin, who seemed genuinely confused as to why


  • #761
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Patser wrote: »
    So would it be seen as obligatory for an i3 driver to give a friendly wave to another i3 driver if passing.

    I've often had niche cars, and usually would if I seen someone else in a same type, when I'd a Pug 205 it was practically obligatory to stop and chat (and look for parts).

    But just waved to a 172 black i3 driver in Dublin, who seemed genuinely confused as to why

    Eh no....


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  • #762
    Dglflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Dglflyer


    You were in Dublin, waving at a citidiot no doubt.


  • #763
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,395 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    I have given and received a salute from every other Ioniq driver I've passed on the road so far :o


  • #764
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Patser wrote: »
    So would it be seen as obligatory for an i3 driver to give a friendly wave to another i3 driver if passing.

    I've often had niche cars, and usually would if I seen someone else in a same type, when I'd a Pug 205 it was practically obligatory to stop and chat (and look for parts).

    But just waved to a 172 black i3 driver in Dublin, who seemed genuinely confused as to why

    If you waved at me, I'd wave back.
    It is customary when driving motorbikes, and I did it before with old JDM cars.


  • #765
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A lot of Leaf drivers used to wave , some didn't. The Few i3 drivers couldn't care less , I think only 1 waved back at me.

    Then again down here in the country a lot of people wave passing anyway but seems to be getting less common, seems to be a country thing, sure up there in Dublin they think you're a weirdo if you try engage any kind of a conversation with a stranger and I like to chat and I guess city folk don't understand this ? I suppose it's more and more common now anyway to see people glued to their phones with headphones on and I would't even bother try engage in any kind of conversation if I saw or was aware they were doing something because I realise I'd be bugging them.

    Anyway I suppose that's the way it is today, if you want to talk to a Human you're a weirdo but being glued to your phone all day/night having no or little as possible human interaction is just fine and dandy lol.

    I like to talk to people that's why I now have my Amateur Radio License lol.


  • #766
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    kceire wrote: »
    If you waved at me, I'd wave back.
    It is customary when driving motorbikes, and I did it before with old JDM cars.

    Same here, I never progressed beyond a 125 Suzuki Intruder but every other biker on the road would still exchange a wave.

    Funnily enough since going electric I did always wave or flash lights at other EV drivers and I always got a response from other Leafs.

    But since getting the i3 in October I haven't had any acknowledgement out of any other drivers, Leaf, i3, Ioniq or anything else.


  • #767
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Same here, I never progressed beyond a 125 Suzuki Intruder but every other biker on the road would still exchange a wave.

    Funnily enough since going electric I did always wave or flash lights at other EV drivers and I always got a response from other Leafs.

    But since getting the i3 in October I haven't had any acknowledgement out of any other drivers, Leaf, i3, Ioniq or anything else.

    In 1.5 years I got one acknowledgement from another i3 driver.

    I wave to most people down the country here anyway on country roads, even a rise of the finger lol.

    Her Old Man from Deutschland thinks that's great, wouldn't get that over there.


  • #768
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I wave to most people down the country here anyway on country roads, even a rise of the finger lol.

    p4z7c8y6of621.jpg


  • #769
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I have given and received a salute from every other Ioniq driver I've passed on the road so far :o

    I've given and received regularly myself in Ioniq :D

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  • #770
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    unkel wrote: »
    I've given and received regularly myself in Ioniq :D

    That actually sounds quite bad ! :rolleyes:


  • #771
    irishgrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    Deleted User wrote:
    That actually sounds quite bad !


    It didn't, until you posted this !!!!


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  • #772
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭Soarer


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    p4z7c8y6of621.jpg

    Balls to that.

    Ain’t touching my windscreen for nobody!


  • #773
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    I've given and received regularly myself in Ioniq :D
    i KNEW it!:P
    Soarer wrote: »
    Balls to that.

    Ain’t touching my windscreen for nobody!
    Yes, no one is worth that


  • #774
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Drove from Blanch today and when I got to the M9 I hammered it , couldn't go faster most not all but for the majority of the M9 until the Carlow turn off.

    Plugged in at 6% - 85% highest temp I saw was 35 deg C, first time I actually heard the AC compressor with the car completely off and fast charging, first time I noticed it probably more than anything.

    It cooled to about 31 Deg C by the time I plugged it out and by the time I got home it was 29 Deg C, on the way home it got to 29 Deg so it seems to sit at that so there's obviously no more ac cooling at that point.

    It's a shame Nissan and others don't do this because BMW's cooling is very simple but very effective.


  • #775
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's a shame Nissan and others don't do this because BMW's cooling is very simple but very effective.

    Is it just cold air from the AC system? Ioniq uses the same afaik. As you say, very simple, cheap and effective.

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  • #776
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    unkel wrote: »
    Is it just cold air from the AC system? Ioniq uses the same afaik. As you say, very simple, cheap and effective.

    Ioniq uses basic fan, good enough but has it's limitations.

    i3 uses a proper ac cooling setup using refrigerant via pipes and not cold air so the heat is dissipated via the Radiator and is a lot more efficient than fan cooling.


  • #777
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    So long as the system is right sized for the job it doesn't really matter. Forced air is good enough for the Ioniq to charge at upto 175A with no signs of rapid gate. The chemistry must be optimised for power density to prevent heat building up in the first place.


  • #778
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Funny how Ioniq can charge at 3C in all weather with just a fan and the 2 year newer L40 can barely manage 1C in perfect circumstances, and just 0.5C when the weather gets a bit warm or the car is driven a bit faster than Miss Daisy.

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  • #779
    jhegarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,441 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    unkel wrote: »
    Is it just cold air from the AC system? Ioniq uses the same afaik. As you say, very simple, cheap and effective.


    Yes , same system as the in car AC.


  • #780
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    unkel wrote: »
    Funny how Ioniq can charge at 3C in all weather with just a fan and the 2 year newer L40 can barely manage 1C in perfect circumstances, and just 0.5C when the weather gets a bit warm or the car is driven a bit faster than Miss Daisy.

    Tesco value battery chemistry vs LG ( LiPo chemistry, poor energy density, but brillant cycle life )

    You haven't even mentioned degradation?

    Ever heard of battery degradation issues with Ioniq?

    Me either


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  • #781
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Tesco value battery chemistry vs LG ( LiPo chemistry, poor energy density, but brillant cycle life )

    You haven't even mentioned degradation?

    Ever heard of battery degradation issues with Ioniq?

    Me either

    What is "Tesco Value" about the battery chemistry in the Leaf?


  • #782
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Soarer wrote: »
    What is "Tesco Value" about the battery chemistry in the Leaf?

    Implying it's inferior to LG, Samsung etc like a value brand compared to them eg Coca Cola vs Tesco Cola

    This is a good laugh :pac:

    Degradation stories on Leaf

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25773&start=340

    Even the 40kWh is entertaining, owners losing 8% SOH in a year of ownership with 14,000km done


  • #783
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Implying it's inferior to LG, Samsung etc like a value brand compared to them eg Coca Cola vs Tesco Cola

    This is a good laugh :pac:

    Degradation stories on Leaf

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25773&start=340

    Even the 40kWh is entertaining, owners losing 8% SOH in a year of ownership with 14,000km done


    Careful there you'll get butthurt leaf owners chasing you for that comment (a comment I agree with btw)


  • #784
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Implying it's inferior to LG, Samsung etc like a value brand compared to them eg Coca Cola vs Tesco Cola

    This is a good laugh :pac:

    Degradation stories on Leaf

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25773&start=340

    Even the 40kWh is entertaining, owners losing 8% SOH in a year of ownership with 14,000km done

    I understand the premise.

    But explain why the chemistry is so bad.


  • #785
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is the 40 Kwh looking Kwh already ?

    Probably mainly down to the complete lack of cooling and worst of all is that they now allow a hot battery to charge faster to eliminate or reduce rapid gate.

    I would hope the Chinese make a better battery now that Nissan no longer own AESC. Though I read there with a quick check that the 62 Kwh will also be NESC but not being a Nissan company any more perhaps they will at least add cooling.


  • #786
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    its still chademo so it's limited to 125a for charging (as no >50kW chademo exists in EU), should there fore experience less rapidgate as its slow charging anyway (only 0.8C)


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  • #787
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Below was the battery Kwh reading from 27-11-17 @9,870 Kms and I will post today's reading @66,121 kms.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057812141&page=5

    5slw7aa.jpg


  • #788
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Time now also to get front tyres, will be almost 70,000 kms on them.

    I will need to do the alignment again, seems to go out of alignment easy enough but to be honest I do thrash it about a lot more than I would have the Leaf, but the Leaf had other issues like uneven tyre wear due to rear axle Nissan in Kilkenny wouldn't admit to and even though there was many instances of this on the internet they still would not acknowledge it.

    Unfortunately my choice of tyres is severely limited, looks like it will be back to the EP500's, but they are decent enough and they last a long, long time even with the way I have thrashed it about but I would suggest , if you own an i3 to getting the alignment done at least twice a year if you drive like me and especially on back roads and driving roughly 30,000 Kms a year but get the alignment done at least once a year regardless whether you change tyres or not.


  • #789
    krissovo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    Got to be happy with 70,000km's from a tyre, especially if you are handy with the right foot. Given the odd size tyre will this be a dealer fit or are sourcing yourself?

    Also on a separate note, do you ever get the front window steaming up to the point you have to give it a blast with the demister setting now and again? I will attempt to change my cabin filters at the weekend to see if that helps.


  • #790
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    krissovo wrote: »
    Got to be happy with 70,000km's from a tyre, especially if you are handy with the right foot.

    Car is RWD so I would expect 70k km from the fronts too. My own car is FWD and the front tyres are ready to be replaced soon when a bit over 40k km. Rears are only about half worn now.

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  • #791
    mordeith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    krissovo wrote: »
    Also on a separate note, do you ever get the front window steaming up to the point you have to give it a blast with the demister setting now and again? I will attempt to change my cabin filters at the weekend to see if that helps.

    Yes to this but only when there's the four of us in the car. I'd have the air con on all the time when that happens if the wife didn't get cold :-)


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  • #792
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    krissovo wrote: »
    Got to be happy with 70,000km's from a tyre, especially if you are handy with the right foot. Given the odd size tyre will this be a dealer fit or are sourcing yourself?

    Also on a separate note, do you ever get the front window steaming up to the point you have to give it a blast with the demister setting now and again? I will attempt to change my cabin filters at the weekend to see if that helps.

    I'm not handy with the right foot at all for a good amount of the time, I thrash it about a lot.

    Yes I get the front window steaming up, usually on damp humid days but I leave it in auto with AC on and it will clear up quick enough, just leave it next time and you should see it clear.

    Most cars steam up especially if the AC is not on, Ireland is an extremely humid country, I can't remember the last time the house hydrometer showed below 65% inside at times this Summer it was 75% "inside".


  • #793
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    My summer tyres are getting a bit low, I'd say they'll need replaced shortly after they go back on next year.

    I'll be swapping to the winters in mid October.

    The summers will have done about 30k km by the time I change them.


  • #794
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I was debating whether to get proper winter tyres, I decided against it because it's not common the be driving at below about 5 Deg C and I'd rather use them only in Snow and they don't perform as good above about 7 deg C.

    With our Winters it would be best alright to have Summer tyres as normal and put winters on when there's snow forecast and at that any show that falls might last until midday.

    There are exceptions of course and those living in hilly areas.

    I wouldn't get the benefit of two sets of tyres and rims.


  • #795
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OH I forgot to post the latest battery report, I'll do that after lunch.


  • #796
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,381 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Deleted User wrote: »
    OH I forgot to post the latest battery report, I'll do that after lunch.

    More lies! :D


  • #797
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    More lies! :D

    Crap forgot , I'll post it within 30 mins.


  • #798
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There you go

    FRlHl8U.jpg


  • #799
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I swear it was 29.5 a few weeks ago lol.


  • #800
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    i3 could very well turn out to have the slowest degrading battery so far in EVs :)

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  • #801
    krissovo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    How do you find the battery info? its not an option on mine.

    EDIT: Sorry quick google using SOH and not SOB helps a lot. I have it now.


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