How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

smurgen · 24-10-2020 2:28pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

For far too long the IRA in one form or another has haunted this island like a virus or a cancer, by using terrorism and death as a way to achieve its goal of total and utter seperation from the neighboring island.

The only way a "United Ireland" is ever going to happen is if more Nationalists vote to leave the Union with Britain, and currently s substantial amount of Northern Nationalists vote to maintain NI'i place within the United Kingdom.

Hearts & minds up North may change post Brexit, specially if Scotland votes to leave the UK, but in the meantime, may I suggest that Republican posters on here stop hero worshipping the perpetrators of the past atrocities committed on this island by their comrades in the name of Ireland..

We would like a United Ireland yes, but by consensus and agreement, and not by hate and division.

I'd be more worried about British far right operations in Ireland tbh
What were so many of them toe rags doing in Dublin this week stoaking tensions?

https://twitter.com/fionamitchell56/status/1319980309350436870?s=19

Hqrry113 · 24-10-2020 2:49pm

smurgen wrote: »

I'd be more worried about British far right operations in Ireland tbh
What were so many of them toe rags doing in Dublin this week stoaking tensions?

https://twitter.com/fionamitchell56/status/1319980309350436870?s=19

I don't think much irish people would get on board with this tbh

downcow · 24-10-2020 6:08pm

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Listen, no one believes your pathetic anecdotal stories in your attempt to prove a point.

I asked what would you accept as evidence and you ducked it

DonegalBay · 24-10-2020 9:25pm

jm08 wrote: »

Redmond would never have achieved Home Rule for island of Ireland because he didn't have the support of the Welsh MPs who had their own Home Rule agenda which would require the support if the Irish MPs in Westminster. Secondly, Redmond ignored Unionists and didn't even try to persuade them of the benefits of Home Rule.

I am curious about this notion of selling home rule to Unionists. The idea of home rule had been floating about since 1886 so I think Unionists had a pretty good idea of what home rule entailed, and they had long since decided that anything that saw their power diminished in the name of democracy was not to their liking.

FrancieBrady · 24-10-2020 9:29pm

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1319896643811016707

Starting to get interesting and ominous. Unionist shortsightedness coming home to roost for everyone sadly.

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1319896643811016707

Truthvader · 25-10-2020 6:03pm

DonegalBay wrote: »

I am curious about this notion of selling home rule to Unionists. The idea of home rule had been floating about since 1886 so I think Unionists had a pretty good idea of what home rule entailed, and they had long since decided that anything that saw their power diminished in the name of democracy was not to their liking.

Actually their original objection was that Home Rule was Rome Rule - and God knows they called that right.

eire4 · 26-10-2020 4:53pm

smurgen wrote: »

I'd be more worried about British far right operations in Ireland tbh
What were so many of them toe rags doing in Dublin this week stoaking tensions?

https://twitter.com/fionamitchell56/status/1319980309350436870?s=19

Scary stuff indeed. Thankfully right now they are nothing but a far right fringe group and if brexit does have anything in the way of positives it will show them up for the lunatics they are.

The_Fitz · 27-10-2020 12:46pm

downcow · 27-10-2020 9:27pm

The_Fitz wrote: »

Tell me I’m stupid but those pie charts say to me that not only do the majority of people in ni want to stay in the uk, but the majority of every age bracket also want to stay in UK.
I have also had a few debates on here where I am continuously told that the nhs is in a mess and the Roi health system is much better. I was really baffled by this because all my friends in the south aspire to have a system like ours and a few of them use their northern connections to get their free meds etc. Seems you guys have been feeding me nonsense

downcow · 27-10-2020 9:34pm

Would anyone have James address and I’ll send him one of these for Christmas ðŸ˜‚ https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/extra.ie/2020/10/22/sport/soccernews/hartlepool-remembrance/amp

markodaly · 27-10-2020 11:42pm

downcow wrote: »

Tell me I’m stupid but those pie charts say to me that not only do the majority of people in ni want to stay in the uk, but the majority of every age bracket also want to stay in UK.
I have also had a few debates on here where I am continuously told that the nhs is in a mess and the Roi health system is much better. I was really baffled by this because all my friends in the south aspire to have a system like ours and a few of them use their northern connections to get their free meds etc. Seems you guys have been feeding me nonsense

What is most surprising is that the younger vote as a whole want to stay in the Union.
In other words, there isn't a hope in hell a UI will happen in the next few decades.

briany · 27-10-2020 11:57pm

markodaly wrote: »

What is most surprising is that the younger vote as a whole want to stay in the Union.
In other words, there isn't a hope in hell a UI will happen in the next few decades.

It's not really surprising at all, though. Young people tend not to be as set in their ways as regards politics and the main factor for them would probably be more economic i.e. whatever situation helps them get on in life. Right now, that situation isn't so clear as Brexit could be a catastrophe, but Irish unification leads to feelings of uncertainty, so it makes sense to default to 'better the devil you know'. This could change depending on how things pan out.

That's why, in my opinion, it was a risky move (to put it lightly) for the likes of the DUP to support Brexit in the first place. The existing status quo posed little threat to NI's place in the UK, but it's now looking like they could be cut off from the rest of the UK, economically. Or they could get their wish and be cut off from the rest of Ireland. That could be a pyrric victory, though, if and when Brexit turns out badly and NI becomes the poorest corner of a poor country. Then, young people could seriously change their minds re: the question of Irish unification.

FrancieBrady · 28-10-2020 12:03am

briany wrote: »

It's not really surprising at all, though. Young people tend not to be as set in their ways as regards politics and the main factor for them would probably be more economic i.e. whatever situation helps them get on in life. Right now, that situation isn't so clear as Brexit could be a catastrophe, but Irish unification leads to feelings of uncertainty, so it makes sense to default to 'better the devil you know'. This could change depending on how things pan out.

That's why, in my opinion, it was a risky move (to put it lightly) for the likes of the DUP to support Brexit in the first place. The existing status quo posed little threat to NI's place in the UK, but it's now looking like they could be cut off from the rest of the UK, economically. Or they could get their wish and be cut off from the rest of Ireland. That could be a pyrric victory, though, if and when Brexit turns out badly and NI becomes the poorest corner of a poor country. Then, young people could seriously change their minds re: the question of Irish unification.

They aren't getting their way though. The border infrastructure for the Irish Sea is being put in place as we speak while their PM lies to them.

Dyr · 28-10-2020 12:13am

Be ironic if Sinn Feins love affair with the HSE ****ed over a border poll

200,000 employees, nearly 6 grand per head of population poured into it and they still waffle on about lack of funding being the problem

BonnieSituation · 28-10-2020 1:03am

downcow wrote: »

Tell me I’m stupid but those pie charts say to me that not only do the majority of people in ni want to stay in the uk, but the majority of every age bracket also want to stay in UK.
I have also had a few debates on here where I am continuously told that the nhs is in a mess and the Roi health system is much better. I was really baffled by this because all my friends in the south aspire to have a system like ours and a few of them use their northern connections to get their free meds etc. Seems you guys have been feeding me nonsense

I think you misunderstand the issue. What the HSE system lacks is "universal free at point of use" but that doesn't tell the full costs story either. But you're not one for "depth of knowledge" so why bother?

What's it matter to you though? You aren't going to vote for a UI and in the event of a Border Poll you'll be spinning falsehoods anyway.

RobMc59 · 28-10-2020 10:13am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I think you misunderstand the issue. What the HSE system lacks is "universal free at point of use" but that doesn't tell the full costs story either. But you're not one for "depth of knowledge" so why bother?

What's it matter to you though? You aren't going to vote for a UI and in the event of a Border Poll you'll be spinning falsehoods anyway.

Having to pay for health care,extra for insurance and other things like stamp duty are important to people and would be a factor in many people's thinking in regards to voting-thats not me guessing bonnie,that's exactly the things I've been weighing up myself over where to live.

downcow · 28-10-2020 10:52am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I think you misunderstand the issue. What the HSE system lacks is "universal free at point of use" but that doesn't tell the full costs story either. But you're not one for "depth of knowledge" so why bother?

What's it matter to you though? You aren't going to vote for a UI and in the event of a Border Poll you'll be spinning falsehoods anyway.

I was commenting on a poll someone else posted that showed that the majority of every age group living in this ‘failed statelet’ would prefer to continue living in it as opposed the the ‘highly successful’ Roi. And it seems the nhs is a big factor.

Direct your anger at the person who posted the info, if you think it’s nonsense.

FrancieBrady · 28-10-2020 12:34pm

downcow wrote: »

I was commenting on a poll someone else posted that showed that the majority of every age group living in this ‘failed statelet’ would prefer to continue living in it as opposed the the ‘highly successful’ Roi. And it seems the nhs is a big factor.

Direct your anger at the person who posted the info, if you think it’s nonsense.

The NHS in Britain and in the north is asking the HSE for help at the minute. Must be in some tip top shape!

https://www.thejournal.ie/senior-nhs-officials-contacted-hse-seeking-help-for-covid-19-tests-5207798-Sep2020/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-critical-cases-from-ni-could-put-pressure-on-services-in-republic-1.4391125

jh79 · 28-10-2020 12:49pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The NHS in Britain and in the north is asking the HSE for help at the minute. Must be in some tip top shape!

https://www.thejournal.ie/senior-nhs-officials-contacted-hse-seeking-help-for-covid-19-tests-5207798-Sep2020/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-critical-cases-from-ni-could-put-pressure-on-services-in-republic-1.4391125

Their COVID rate is 3-4 times our thanks to the leadership up North so hardly a valid comparison.

FrancieBrady · 28-10-2020 12:52pm

jh79 wrote: »

Their COVID rate is 3-4 times our thanks to the leadership up North so hardly a valid comparison.

Yes...the failure of the partitioned state and partition has to show somewhere, you cannot cover it up anymore.

It's failure will be a factor in any border poll. It is, as well as in other ways, a threat to the health of our island now.

FrancieBrady · 28-10-2020 1:25pm

I mentioned this before. I think it is shaping up to be fascinating.

I always thought Michael Martin's divergence from republicanism to overt partitionism was a wrong note and wouldn't sit well with real FFers.
I think he is in a grace period because he has attained the office of Taoiseach.
It seems I may have been right, is this the kick back within FF beginning to emerge?

A FF leader seeking a border poll, in government with a SF leader seeking the same?

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2020/10/28/news/fianna-fa-il-future-leadership-contender-jim-o-callaghan-says-get-ready-for-a-border-poll-2111778/content.html

Truthvader · 28-10-2020 2:06pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I mentioned this before. I think it is shaping up to be fascinating.

I always thought Michael Martin's divergence from republicanism to overt partitionism was a wrong note and wouldn't sit well with real FFers.
I think he is in a grace period because he has attained the office of Taoiseach.
It seems I may have been right, is this the kick back within FF beginning to emerge?

A FF leader seeking a border poll, in government with a SF leader seeking the same?

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2020/10/28/news/fianna-fa-il-future-leadership-contender-jim-o-callaghan-says-get-ready-for-a-border-poll-2111778/content.html

Yep, had always been a "sneaking regard for IRA" element in Fianna Fail. Maybe the normal people can just join up with FG and create one centre right party and the "sneaking regard" mob can just join Sinn Fein and be done with it. Problem then is we have a centre right party, A "Golden Dawn"/thug neo fascist party and no left wing alternative at all. Unless Labour get their act together and stupid people look at Trump/Erdogan/Johnson and cop on to the dangers of stupid Nationalism

jh79 · 28-10-2020 2:11pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I mentioned this before. I think it is shaping up to be fascinating.

I always thought Michael Martin's divergence from republicanism to overt partitionism was a wrong note and wouldn't sit well with real FFers.
I think he is in a grace period because he has attained the office of Taoiseach.
It seems I may have been right, is this the kick back within FF beginning to emerge?

A FF leader seeking a border poll, in government with a SF leader seeking the same?

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2020/10/28/news/fianna-fa-il-future-leadership-contender-jim-o-callaghan-says-get-ready-for-a-border-poll-2111778/content.html

Sure the Republic is the easy part. Need to convince the people of NI first and based on that opinion poll there is a long way to go yet.

downcow · 28-10-2020 2:13pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The NHS in Britain and in the north is asking the HSE for help at the minute. Must be in some tip top shape!

https://www.thejournal.ie/senior-nhs-officials-contacted-hse-seeking-help-for-covid-19-tests-5207798-Sep2020/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-critical-cases-from-ni-could-put-pressure-on-services-in-republic-1.4391125

Someone needs to tell those of all ages in ni because according to fitzs poll they think very differently. But sure you are probably right Francie. After all you would not be blinkered by prejudice ðŸ˜‚

RobMc59 · 28-10-2020 2:28pm

downcow wrote: »

Someone needs to tell those of all ages in ni because according to fitzs poll they think very differently. But sure you are probably right Francie. After all you would not be blinkered by prejudice &#55357;&#56834;

It's a good job our resident disgruntled republicans haven't seen nicola sturgeon this morning,the love in with Scottish nationalists will be well and truly over as she was wearing a poppy broach..

FrancieBrady · 28-10-2020 2:38pm

downcow wrote: »

Someone needs to tell those of all ages in ni because according to fitzs poll they think very differently. But sure you are probably right Francie. After all you would not be blinkered by prejudice &#55357;&#56834;

Apart from the biggest change Brexit will bring for Unionists - a border in the Irish Sea, what is predicted to change the most? The NHS.
Jim Mc Allister was spouting nonsense last night about health care here on the BBC.
It will take very little to dispel that mis-information and faith in the NHS will disappear very quickly if the predicted changes begin to happen.

All to play for.

FrancieBrady · 28-10-2020 2:40pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

It's a good job our resident disgruntled republicans haven't seen nicola sturgeon this morning,the love in with Scottish nationalists will be well and truly over as she was wearing a poppy broach..

Why?

I never had a problem with respectful remembrance Rob. Only when people do it to taunt or triumphalise, is it a problem.

downcow · 28-10-2020 3:29pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

It's a good job our resident disgruntled republicans haven't seen nicola sturgeon this morning,the love in with Scottish nationalists will be well and truly over as she was wearing a poppy broach..

:-)

RobMc59 · 28-10-2020 3:29pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why?

I never had a problem with respectful remembrance Rob. Only when people do it to taunt or triumphalise, is it a problem.

Fair enough

Truthvader · 28-10-2020 3:56pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why?

I never had a problem with respectful remembrance Rob. Only when people do it to taunt or triumphalise, is it a problem.

This is what Francie regards as a "respectful remembrance" not designed to "taunt or triumphalise"

https://mmo.aiircdn.com/151/5efb4b87eda51.jpg

How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

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