How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm surprised you would resort to whataboutary Fionn.

It isn't whataboutery, Rob. It is directly relevant, as a vote on unification is a choice between being part of the UK or being part of Ireland and the EU.

When you suggest that a vote on unification could be impacted by some perceived democratic deficit, it is of course necessary to contextualise and contrast this perceived deficit with the alternative.

Tyrone212

[Deleted User] wrote: »

3 days before the anniversairy of bloody sunday,the sectetary of state for NI said the following in a tweet

Absolutely vile but I'm not surprised.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

This is the weird doublethink of Brexit supporters writ large. Your mask has slipped again, that could be straight out of the Daily Express.

The EU somehow simultaneously becomes so powerful that it can do whatever it wants and so powerless that the UK can bully it around.

If the EU was a Big Brother type of setup, then they would've ploughed on regardless of Irish concerns.....like the UK has continued to do with regards to Scottish, Welsh and NI concerns.

Which one is the Big Brother setup again?!

It really is the strangest and weird disconnects on here.

Rob and downcow just completely blank the reality of their Union and what it has done to them.

Boris can do what he likes and has nothing to fear from them (Rob/downcow) or the suckers in the DUP etc

The man stood in Belfast and promised them there would be no Sea Border, how much more do they need before they rebel against this?

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well which Union would you prefer to be in Rob...one that ignores your wish to stay in the EU as a region...one that ignores you wish to stay a full part of the UK and not have a Irish sea Border? One that ignore your wish for an Independence poll like it does in Scotland or a Union that listens to you when you think they have made a mistake?

Which Union would you prefer Rob...take your pick?

Of course it is a plus for a UI.

Scotland had its referendum recently, and 55.3% of its population decided to remain in the UK. Provision for a Brexit referendum had been put in train by that time also, so the issue was a central theme throughout the independence debate. The SNP leaned heavily on EU themes throughout its campaign.

It may be rather convenient to suggest that the subsequent Brexit vote result in Scotland should change the interpretation of the 2014 independence vote, however that is merely a conflation to serve a tangential purpose with relating to UI.

The wishes of the Scottish people regarding their position in the UK are being ignored by somebody here, but its not by the Westminster government.

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Scotland had its referendum recently, and 55.3% of its population decided to remain in the UK. Provision for a Brexit referendum had been put in train by that time also, so the issue was a central theme throughout the debate. The SNP leaned heavily on EU themes throughout its campaign.

It may be rather convenient to suggest that the subsequent Brexit vote result in Scotland should change the interpretation of the 2014 independence vote, however that is merely a conflation to serve a tangential purpose with relating to UI.

The wishes of the Scottish people regarding their position in the UK are being ignored by somebody here, but its not by the Westminster government.

FrancieBrady

As expected, poor auld Sammy trying to have it both ways on News at One.

Completely put in his place. You can't be getting up on yer hind legs snarling about something then the very next day propose doing it yourself or even pretend that you had not been calling for it all along.
Hoist by his own petard and hypocrisy again.

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

3 days before the anniversairy of bloody sunday,the sectetary of state for NI said the following in a tweet

Don’t start this Bloody Sunday nonsense again. Why oh why should it be held above all the other atrocities.
Whatever day something is posted there will be an anniversary of an atrocity or other.
Here is today’s. Again it is a display of blatant sectarianism from the ira (that many on here claim they didn’t do)

On this day in 1976 the IRA murdered John Smiley, 55. Protestant father murdered in a no warning bomb at Klondyke Bar, Sandy Row, around 6:45 pm. The pub was full of customers. A barmaid lost an eye & several others lost limbs when the device left at the pub door exploded

https://mobile.twitter.com/OnThisDayPIRA/status/1355513388848320515
And
https://mobile.twitter.com/OnThisDayPIRA/status/1355467607453929472

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Don’t start this Bloody Sunday nonsense again. Why oh why should it be held above all the other atrocities.
Whatever day something is posted there will be an anniversary of an atrocity or other.
Here is today’s. Again it is a display of blatant sectarianism from the ira (that many on here claim they didn’t do)

On this day in 1976 the IRA murdered John Smiley, 55. Protestant father murdered in a no warning bomb at Klondyke Bar, Sandy Row, around 6:45 pm. The pub was full of customers. A barmaid lost an eye & several others lost limbs when the device left at the pub door exploded

https://mobile.twitter.com/OnThisDayPIRA/status/1355513388848320515
And
https://mobile.twitter.com/OnThisDayPIRA/status/1355467607453929472

Was the British State involved in that? Did they organise a tribunal where their own army lied to them and the whole thing was whitewashed?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Was the British State involved in that? Did they organise a tribunal where their own army lied to them and the whole thing was whitewashed?

One of those events were in Londonderry but I am not sure if the british state had the Fisherman working for them at that stage, but certainly he would have been in charge, so there is a good chance the state were involved.
Did the perpetrators tell lies about it you say. Yes absolutely. In fact they told lies about it at the very tribunals you mention. The Fisherman Martin Maginnis told them he left the ira in 1972 and that happened in 76 so I think we all know that was a lie and that he was in charge of the ira in derry in 1976.
And yes they have whitewashed it, because it was a blatantly sectarian attack on a Protestant pub and the ira say they are not sectarian - so I’d call that a whitewash.

Is that all your questions answered for you?

By the way, do you accept that was a sectarian attack by the Ira?

Finty Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Lies make baby jesus cry


Scottish indy vote was in 2104

Cameron went to the eu to begin to re-negociate the eu/uk relationship in may 2015


Febuary 2016 he announced the results of this and set june 23rd as the date for brexit vote

"Because of the rising influence of a virulent strain – not just of Euroscepticism, but of Europhobia – at Westminster, it now poses a real threat to Scotland's place in Europe. "Today Britain sits at the margins of European influence, and if Scotland remains governed from London we face the prospect of an in/out referendum on whether to be part of the European Union at all. It is conceivable that unless we choose to change our circumstances this September we could be dragged out of the European Union against our will."Alex Salmond April 2014.


David Cameron committed his party to an in/out EU referendum in January 2013, followed by James Wharton's ultimately blocked EU referendum Bill in June 2013.

The EU question was clearly a central plank of the SNP campaign. The Scots knew it when they voted, and still chose UK membership. Well, 55.3% of them anyway

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some cultural enrichment from our british neighbours

https://mobile.twitter.com/chrisadonnelly/status/1355527832563314693

Disgusting graffiti.
What I did have a smile at is the reference to Leo. I am reasonably aware politically but I read something the other day that refereed to michael Martan as teasdhoch. I thought it was a mistake as I thought Leo was in charge. Someone enlightened me last night. When I saw this I realise the graffiti artists also must think Leo is still the boss

Gytftfx

downcow wrote: »

One of those events were in Londonderry but I am not sure if the british state had the Fisherman working for them at that stage, but certainly he would have been in charge, so there is a good chance the state were involved.
Did the perpetrators tell lies about it you say. Yes absolutely. In fact they told lies about it at the very tribunals you mention. The Fisherman Martin Maginnis told them he left the ira in 1972 and that happened in 76 so I think we all know that was a lie and that he was in charge of the ira in derry in 1976.
And yes they have whitewashed it, because it was a blatantly sectarian attack on a Protestant pub and the ira say they are not sectarian - so I’d call that a whitewash.

Is that all your questions answered for you?

By the way, do you accept that was a sectarian attack by the Ira?

Of course it was a sectarian attack but you will hear the usual stuff from the shinners “it was a solo run” or “it wasn’t sanctioned by the army council” it’s hilarious the stuff that comes out of their mouths.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

One of those events were in Londonderry but I am not sure if the british state had the Fisherman working for them at that stage, but certainly he would have been in charge, so there is a good chance the state were involved.
Did the perpetrators tell lies about it you say. Yes absolutely. In fact they told lies about it at the very tribunals you mention. The Fisherman Martin Maginnis told them he left the ira in 1972 and that happened in 76 so I think we all know that was a lie and that he was in charge of the ira in derry in 1976.
And yes they have whitewashed it, because it was a blatantly sectarian attack on a Protestant pub and the ira say they are not sectarian - so I’d call that a whitewash.

Is that all your questions answered for you?

By the way, do you accept that was a sectarian attack by the Ira?

The IRA are not and never were the 'State' downcow. Perhaps when you truly recognise the gravity of what the State you identify with did here in your own country of Ireland you will have turned a corner.

FrancieBrady

Coincidently came up on my FB feed, funnily enough. A refresher, so to speak. This particular 'state' got away with this type of thing all over their conquests. It wasn't a coincidence

'Bloody Sunday was a very British atrocity – the top brass got away with it'


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/bloody-sunday-derry-top-brass-one-soldier-charged

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The IRA are not and never were the 'State' downcow. Perhaps when you truly recognise the gravity of what the State you identify with did here in your own country of Ireland you will have turned a corner.

So you only have a problem with atrocities the state were involved.
Are you completely in denial that there was major collusion between the state and the ira. Martin Maginnis is just one example of many.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So you only have a problem with atrocities the state were involved.
Are you completely in denial that there was major collusion between the state and the ira. Martin Maginnis is just one example of many.

Pretty sensational that those you identify with also colluded with each side...I have always said it downcow. This is also not inconsistent with what they did elsewhere.




*Still indulging in the petty mis-spelling of a dead man's name. Lovely stuff.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Pretty sensational that those you identify with also colluded with each side...I have always said it downcow. This is also not inconsistent with what they did elsewhere.




*Still indulging in the petty mis-spelling of a dead man's name. Lovely stuff.

They ran agents Francie. I think every security service in the world does that. Unless you know different?

downcow

Tyrone212 wrote: »

British Home secretary last year threatened to starve Ireland in to submission with a blockade around the island. Nobody wants to be ruled by genocidal monsters I would have thought.

Have you a link to that.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

They ran agents Francie. I think every security service in the world does that. Unless you know different?

They pitted Irish people against Irish people, downcow, no regard for the native people wherever they went and they have done it in every colony they had usually while the exploited it for the motherland.
Yes, you are correct, it was a common trait among colonists.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They pitted Irish people against Irish people, downcow, no regard for the native people wherever they went and they have done it in every colony they had usually while the exploited it for the motherland.
Yes, you are correct, it was a common trait among colonists.

...and your special branch don’t run agents in your drug gangs?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

...and your special branch don’t run agents in your drug gangs?

I doubt they are arming them downcow...no.

Please understand what collusion is and why it is the crime it is when the state engage in it.

JasonStatham

Tyrone212 wrote: »

British Home secretary last year threatened to starve Ireland in to submission with a blockade around the island. Nobody wants to be ruled by genocidal monsters I would have thought.

This just shows their real attitude. And it's almost come to reality in a strange way. Brexit has lead to food supply disruption in NI.

They just don't care whether youre Unionist or Irish. It's Ireland so fcuk it. I don't have a problem with Unionists, but fcuk those Tories to hell.

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The IRA are not and never were the 'State' downcow. Perhaps when you truly recognise the gravity of what the State you identify with did here in your own country of Ireland you will have turned a corner.

Many good republicans would take grave issue with the claim that the IRA never were 'the State'. Of course they are the state. They are the direct representatives of the only legal Dail, and as such are the legal and lawful government of the Irish Republic. Very disappointing to read surrender statements like this.

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Many good republicans would take grave issue with the claim that the IRA never were 'the State'. Of course they are the state. They are the direct representatives of the only legal Dail, and as such are the legal and lawful government of the Irish Republic. Very disappointing to read surrender statements like this.

Sure Finty, sure.

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sure Finty, sure.

Page 1 of the manual

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

Nobody wants to be ruled by a big brother type outfit thinly disguised as a benevolent trading community who's mask has just slipped...

Some more pro-EU rhetoric there from you, eh Rob?

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Page 1 of the manual

Finty, stop deflecting from a state up to it's eyeballs in collusion and criminality. If you want to climb to the high moral ground with them, I ain't following.

All of what happened on this island was wrong, but the state...because it is the state, bears more responsibility and we know what they did.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Disgusting graffiti.
What I did have a smile at is the reference to Leo. I am reasonably aware politically but I read something the other day that refereed to michael Martan as teasdhoch. I thought it was a mistake as I thought Leo was in charge. Someone enlightened me last night. When I saw this I realise the graffiti artists also must think Leo is still the boss

The effort you go through to add extra letters to Derry to antagonise and still haven't figured out how to spell Taoiseach.

The effort you must have gone through to spell it wrong but look kinda okay is breathtaking.

Amazing. And still here as well.

And you still can't figure out why either of the incidents known as Bloody Sunday are particularly abhorrent...

The sectarianism drips off ya!
Tá tú fliuch báite!

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Have you a link to that.

https://www.google.com/search?q=priti+patel+starve+ireland&oq=priti+patel+st&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l4.5274j0j7&client=ms-android-motorola-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Should be enough there for you to read and twist into something about Martan Maginnis.

Gytftfx

downcow wrote: »

So you only have a problem with atrocities the state were involved.
Are you completely in denial that there was major collusion between the state and the ira. Martin Maginnis is just one example of many.

How do you mean collusion with the state and the IRA? We never collided with the IRA that’s a ridiculous thing to say to the goal of the army and intelligence forces throughout the whole troubles was to defeat the IRA, having informers and spies is far different to “colluding”.

A lot of people say the intelligence services used loyalist paramilitaries as proxy organizations to carry out assassinations against IRA members, Sinn Fein members and IRA/SF members families along with random catholic civilians.

Now if that is true then that is collusion at the highest level possible, but simply because the state had a few informers within the IRA that means they are “colluding” is a joke any thing the intelligence services, government and army done throughout the troubles was towards the end goal of destroying the IRA.