Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

Type 17 · 23-11-2020 6:59pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

So if there is a massive backlog of trucks because of Brexit it's cyclists the cyclists fault too. People never seem to cop that the extra lane won't mean less trucks

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I presume some British cyclists voted for Brexit so yes, it's because of cyclists!

Seth Brundle wrote: »

If it allows them to keep the road as-is so they can continue to drive then yes.
I don't think the author or anyone involved in the STC has any credibility to be honest with their seemingly disingenuous approach.

The letter writer is disingenuously presuming that all/many/some trucks from the port go across the East Link and down the Strand Road (& vice versa), when almost all of them go through the port tunnel (which was built to get HGVs away from the Liffey Quays, and is toll-free for them). Almost all HGVs on the Strand Road are local/Dublin region traffic, which won't be affected by Brexit.

Seth Brundle · 23-11-2020 7:06pm

Type 17 wrote: »

The letter writer is disingenuously presuming that all/many/some trucks from the port go across the East Link and down the Strand Road (& vice versa), when almost all of them go through the port tunnel (which was built to get HGVs away from the Liffey Quays, and is toll-free for them). Almost all HGVs on the Strand Road are local/Dublin region traffic, which won't be affected by Brexit.

I presume that the letter writer knows this and it is part of the propaganda that seems to be emanating from the area about the consequences of the cycle lane.
Like I said, I don't think the author or anyone involved in the STC has any credibility.

Seth Brundle · 23-11-2020 7:51pm

Cyclist found with head injuries in Nenagh dies in hospital
Fresh appeal for witnesses after Sean Clifford was found next to his bike in Co Tipperary town

A cyclist who was found lying beside his bicycle with serious head injuries in Nenagh town last week has died.

He has been named locally as Sean Clifford, who was in his 40s. He died at University Hospital Limerick following the incident at the junction of Emmet Place/Sarsfield Street and Mitchell Street last Wednesday afternoon.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cyclist-found-with-head-injuries-in-nenagh-dies-in-hospital-1.4417045

p15574 · 24-11-2020 9:25am

Type 17 wrote: »

The letter writer is disingenuously presuming that all/many/some trucks from the port go across the East Link and down the Strand Road (& vice versa), when almost all of them go through the port tunnel (which was built to get HGVs away from the Liffey Quays, and is toll-free for them). Almost all HGVs on the Strand Road are local/Dublin region traffic, which won't be affected by Brexit.

In addition, the trial will leave the southbound lane open there, so how can there be traffic backed up from the port? If it occurs at all, it should occur inbound, on the alternative, recommended HGV route.

Tombo2001 · 24-11-2020 10:30am

I see a man convicted of dangerous driving resulting in fatal accident in Cork has been given a suspended sentence.

Its truly shocking how lenient the judges are towards this form of crime.

MojoMaker · 24-11-2020 2:58pm

Boils my blood.

Seth Brundle · 25-11-2020 11:58am

https://twitter.com/SafeCyclingEire/status/1331532619444604928

DoraDelite · 25-11-2020 12:08pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SafeCyclingEire/status/1331532619444604928

That's grim and the article blames the workplace conditions on their deaths rather than the fact that Australian cities are one of the most hostile and dangerous places to be on a bike.

Seth Brundle · 25-11-2020 12:26pm

I think if workplace H&S applied then the employers would be shouting for the roads to be made safer.

MangleBadger · 25-11-2020 12:53pm

DoraDelite wrote: »

That's grim and the article blames the workplace conditions on their deaths rather than the fact that Australian cities are one of the most hostile and dangerous places to be on a bike.

I didn't cycle while I lived in Oz. And sometimes I feel like I missed out because of the weather and good roads.
But Australian drivers are some of the most needlessly dangerous and aggressive drivers I've ever come across

cletus · 25-11-2020 1:20pm

MangleBadger wrote: »

I didn't cycle while I lived in Oz. And sometimes I feel like I missed out because of the weather and good roads.
But Australian drivers are some of the most needlessly dangerous and aggressive drivers I've ever come across

I cycled while working in Cairns. Commuting only. A fairly unpleasant experience, especially considering the otherwise positive outlook the Australians have about outdoor activities

Thargor · 25-11-2020 8:48pm

Mandatory helmet laws tells you all you need to know about their attitude.

Type 17 · 25-11-2020 8:51pm

cletus wrote: »

Having glanced at some of the "dryrobe wars" stories popping up in the media, I'd like to retract the above statement.

I do not own a dryrobe.

I own a Decathlon surf poncho that I bought for €25

€171 for a towel...

Our Dryrobe wars have gone international...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/25/shivering-dublin-bay-swimmers-slighted-for-fancy-robes

cletus · 25-11-2020 9:40pm

Type 17 wrote: »

Our Dryrobe wars have gone international...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/25/shivering-dublin-bay-swimmers-slighted-for-fancy-robes

I read the (rather slim) article, but was more interest in the photo of the dryrobe wearer. That thing is not a towel. It's a winter coat with a towel lining.

I really assumed it was just a poncho towel thing with a hood and pockets. I think I understand why people wear them around all day.

Still wouldn't pay €171 for one...

Wildly Boaring · 25-11-2020 10:19pm

Storme Delaney
Now that's an even D first name.

Hurrache · 25-11-2020 10:24pm

cletus wrote: »

I read the (rather slim) article, but was more interest in the photo of the dryrobe wearer. That thing is not a towel. It's a winter coat with a towel lining.

I really assumed it was just a poncho towel thing with a hood and pockets. I think I understand why people wear them around all day.

Still wouldn't pay €171 for one...

They're great, I've always wanted one for getting changed in random fields and parks after events, not for swimming, but baulk at the price every time. I've bought the kids generic ones and they love them.

Seaswimmer · 26-11-2020 9:55am

cletus wrote: »

I read the (rather slim) article, but was more interest in the photo of the dryrobe wearer. That thing is not a towel. It's a winter coat with a towel lining.

I really assumed it was just a poncho towel thing with a hood and pockets. I think I understand why people wear them around all day.

Still wouldn't pay €171 for one...

Without dragging the thread off topic Dry Robe is a bit of a misnomer. They don't dry you. Far better to get a towelling robe (25 euro) to dry yourself and lots of layers with a decent windproof jacket on top. Save your money.

Macy0161 · 26-11-2020 10:30am

My daughter has one - she does/ did surf life saving and was in a sea swimming club - and plenty of hardcore swimmers have them in that club.

They're more about keeping warm than necessarily drying - they're "dry" because of the waterproof outer layer. We also have the towelling robes, and there's no comparison. 100% reverse snobbery with the anti-dry robes crowd.

Brilliant for camping too by the way - great for evenings sat out in the Irish "summer".

26-11-2020 11:03am

These are this years snuggie. Wonder will pennys do cheap knock offs (asking for a friend) then we'll see how cool they are among the swimmers when everybody has one

CramCycle · 26-11-2020 11:04am

Handy after a CX race, you could hose yourself down and throw one on,

Paddigol · 26-11-2020 11:18am

CramCycle wrote: »

Handy after a CX race, you could hose yourself down and throw one on,

If there's any sports group always on the lookout for some overpriced, not-strictly-necessary, latest fad accessory to waste their money on... it's us!

CramCycle · 26-11-2020 11:26am

Paddigol wrote: »

If there's any sports group always on the lookout for some overpriced, not-strictly-necessary, latest fad accessory to waste their money on... it's us!

I hear the specific type of towel fabric it uses lightly scuffs the skin to create eddies as you cycle and reduces your overall CdA by 0.8%
Marginal gains, blah, blah, blah

Macy0161 · 26-11-2020 11:30am

Meh, I think if you were swimming/ camping/ changing out of the back of the car often they're alright value for money (although didn't pay as much as is being quoted now). They will last for years. One of those things you don't know you need until you have one.

breezy1985 · 26-11-2020 11:38am

I think people are focusing too much on the actual towel coat here. It's not about the pros or cons of a jacket but the fact it's the uniform of a group of people who are jumping on a gas.

I'm kinda on the fence about it. In one sense it's always great to see new people get into sports and fitness but there is a habit when these fads start for people to invade an area and give no respect to the unwritten rules that have built up over many years

Paddigol · 26-11-2020 12:12pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I think people are focusing too much on the actual towel coat here. It's not about the pros or cons of a jacket but the fact it's the uniform of a group of people who are jumping on a gas.

I'm kinda on the fence about it. In one sense it's always great to see new people get into sports and fitness but there is a habit when these fads start for people to invade an area and give no respect to the unwritten rules that have built up over many years

I can kind of see where you're coming from but to be honest I've not time for the kind of elitism you're describing. It doesn't sound to me as though there's been any disrespect shown by people who happen to wear DryRobes, just a snobbery that what was previously seen as a hardy past time has now become more common. If people have an issue they should address it like adults. It's not their sea. Its not their beach. Its not their patch of sand. No matter how many times they've used it. Usually by being welcoming to newbies, providing advice on a take-it or leave-it basis, even just polite conversations, these sort of issues are avoided. We desperately need more people participating in sports/ outdoor activities in this country and anything that makes that more difficult - like elitism/ snobbery - can **** right off in my book. It's up there with cyclists who snort at newbies wearing pro team gear... "its just not the done thing"... I mean, **** off!! They're riding their bike. Wearing clothes. Minding their own business. Get over yourself!

(None of this directed at you Breezy BTW!)

Large bottle small glass · 26-11-2020 12:18pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I think people are focusing too much on the actual towel coat here. It's not about the pros or cons of a jacket but the fact it's the uniform of a group of people who are jumping on a gas.

I'm kinda on the fence about it. In one sense it's always great to see new people get into sports and fitness but there is a habit when these fads start for people to invade an area and give no respect to the unwritten rules that have built up over many years

I've been sea swimming on at least a weekly basis for 5 years now.

When I started there was a local increase in numbers which I was part of it. People on that beach ranged from no hopers like me to life long grey haired swimmers, young mothers and a few proper hardcore swimmers (including two channel swimmers and ice mile swimmers)

Having being involved in lots of team sports, hiking/cycling/kayaking clubs over the years it was the probably the nicest open group I was ever involved with; really welcoming, social, helpful etc.

Dry robes in that group where quite common especially among the newer members but I can't remember any nonsense around them. I had no interest, the cold was part of the draw for me.

Over those 5 years I've always been struck but how few days in the year the average person will go to the sea. Bar it's really hot numbers have been ridiculously low on what I would consider near perfect days.

That all changed with the second lockdown. Numbers had increased significantly over last 18 months or so but things went mental about 6 weeks ago.

The primary issue I see is cnutish behavior around parking and use of common areas by a tiny number of people. I think you'd get that irrespective of activity where people have to compete for anything but especially car parking space; whatever it does to the human brain.

As an aside there is a common trait seen in lots of people new to a sport when they will try and "buy" their way into a sport to compensate for a lack of knowledge/experience. That something that shouldn't need to be explained on a cycling forum(you could insert hiking/golf/rugby etc etc there though).

Buy is quicker than learn I suppose.

The addition of the extra stuff can actually take from the experience of the activity. Swimming in just your togs/swimsuit and barefoot is probably the only time in your day/week you will have such a simple pure connection with nature. The wet suit/booties/dry robe etc etc will inhibit your body's adaptation to its surroundings. Something is lost by the addition.

The same argument applies to the newbie hiker who immediately buys a gps unit rather than learning how to read the ground and a map or a poor descender who buys a disc braked bike before improving his/her skillset.

This of course peaks in one activity in which most participants are sh1t at 3 sports with a shed full of gear(including dry robes!!)... answers on a postcard

WTF has this got to do with the thread:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxR-D913Ktc

EDIT added the rather corny add Dulux did on the old school swimmers where I used to swim

Tombo2001 · 26-11-2020 12:23pm

I've a theory on this, which is that there is a public need for someone to target on the one hand - which the media fully endorses - and the dwindling list of potential targets because the victims are quite rightly standing up for themselves and saying they wont accept this crap any more.

Hence in Ireland, its publicly not acceptable to be homophobic. But its still broadly acceptable (for example on this website) to be anti traveller.

The media takes a high moral stance when it comes to the former. It happily puts the boot in with the latter.

The Irish Times is the best example of this. They are as right on as one can possibly be when it comes to BLM, right to choose, marriage equality.

But they'll quite happily for example be dismissive of the role of fathers in parenting.

Its pretty well accepted now that the IT has 'form' when it comes to targetting cyclists, particularly on its letters page. Its perfectly acceptable to use the derogatory term MAMIL.

This Dryrobe thing in my view is a continuation of same.

Hurrache · 26-11-2020 12:26pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I'm kinda on the fence about it. In one sense it's always great to see new people get into sports and fitness but there is a habit when these fads start for people to invade an area and give no respect to the unwritten rules that have built up over many years

It's a sea, feic unwritten rules.

breezy1985 · 26-11-2020 12:33pm

Paddigol wrote: »

I can kind of see where you're coming from but to be honest I've not time for the kind of elitism you're describing. It doesn't sound to me as though there's been any disrespect shown by people who happen to wear DryRobes, just a snobbery that what was previously seen as a hardy past time has now become more common. If people have an issue they should address it like adults. It's not their sea. Its not their beach. Its not their patch of sand. No matter how many times they've used it. Usually by being welcoming to newbies, providing advice on a take-it or leave-it basis, even just polite conversations, these sort of issues are avoided. We desperately need more people participating in sports/ outdoor activities in this country and anything that makes that more difficult - like elitism/ snobbery - can **** right off in my book. It's up there with cyclists who snort at newbies wearing pro team gear... "its just not the done thing"... I mean, **** off!! They're riding their bike. Wearing clothes. Minding their own business. Get over yourself!

(None of this directed at you Breezy BTW!)

I've actually never seen a dryrobe myself or go to beaches in Dublin but there was similar tuttuting at the kids on the west coast for swimming in wetsuits. I couldn't care less what people wear when they are out doing stuff as long as they leave the place as they found it and if you are going to a nice quiet relaxing place just remember to act nice and quiet and relaxed ( I'm not saying the dryrobe people are not doing that as I've never met one)

cletus · 26-11-2020 12:42pm

I've no opinions on people wearing dryrobes. Up until yesterday I was labouring under a misapprehension with regards to what they actually were. They look lovely and warm, and I'm sure they're comfortable, but I personally couldn't justify the cost.

With regards to the issues around posters going up and people being targeted for wearing them, or breaking unwritten rules, thats all utterly ridiculous. The idea that an adult could dictate to another adult how they should dress after a swim baffles me.

magicbastarder · 26-11-2020 12:54pm

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

WTF has this got to do with the thread:)

i think i was the one who originally commented on the fuss, likening it to some of the attitudes people have about 'lycra clad' cyclists.
my friend has one, bought for him by his wife IIRC, after he had an experience with cold shock getting out of the sea one day.

i've been down at their place twice in the last couple of years for new years (and the new year's day morning dip) and the bunch there are an exceptionally friendly crowd.

Macy0161 · 26-11-2020 1:10pm

If someone wants to just get out for a swim in the sea, be that with wetsuit, boots, gloves, cap and dryrobe, and isn't interested in the full "connect with nature" experience, so what? They could quite easily be people who normally swim every day, in a pool, looking for options in the middle of bloody global pandemic with pools closed!

This country would drive you nuts sometimes - people "open the pubs/ families to mix/ meet my friends inside for a coffee (delete as applicable) for peoples "mental health"". Also people "don't get a bit of headspace by swimming in the sea because you dare to wear a dry robe and don't conform to my opinion of you need hardship to open water swim".

CramCycle · 26-11-2020 1:19pm

I really do think the whole thing was just a joke that some papers took seriously and don't get sarcasm. It's not much different than my non cycling mates who do the Ned Flanders "feels like you're wearing nothing at all" every time they see me in lycra. It's just a joke and I really don't think anyone in real life takes it seriously. Or at least I hope not.

Duckjob · 26-11-2020 1:37pm

cletus wrote: »

I've no opinions on people wearing dryrobes. Up until yesterday I was labouring under a misapprehension with regards to what they actually were. They look lovely and warm, and I'm sure they're comfortable, but I personally couldn't justify the cost.

With regards to the issues around posters going up and people being targeted for wearing them, or breaking unwritten rules, thats all utterly ridiculous. The idea that an adult could dictate to another adult how they should dress after a swim baffles me.

"That's not how we do things around here"

You're talking there about the same type of idiots that on a bike make comments about cheating to someone that pulls up at the lights beside them on an eBike.

daragh_ · 26-11-2020 3:14pm

It's a manufactured culture war. There's a distinct lack of fisticuffs between the Daily Communicants and the Dip at Dawn Instagrammers down at the Forty Foot. Nobody gives a damn what you wear once you don't hog the steps getting in/out.

Thelonious Monk · 26-11-2020 4:37pm

what the f*ck are yous on about?

Seth Brundle · 30-11-2020 11:18am

I thought I read last week that there were just four fines issued - still 28 is not that much better than four...
https://twitter.com/SafeCyclingEire/status/1333176089766744064

img_0726.jpg?resize=640%2C867&ssl=1

magicbastarder · 30-11-2020 11:20am

i think it was 4 in a specific area? DLR maybe?

Seth Brundle · 30-11-2020 11:22am

Just spotted that now, thanks.

https://twitter.com/IrishCycle/status/1333158256538243076

cletus · 30-11-2020 11:24am

https://twitter.com/miketomalaris/status/1332908112496316416

Seth Brundle · 30-11-2020 11:27am

cletus wrote: »

https://twitter.com/miketomalaris/status/1332908112496316416

The amount of victim blaming in the replies is unbelievable :eek:

breezy1985 · 30-11-2020 11:30am

WTF was that. Surely not just an accident

cletus · 30-11-2020 11:48am

breezy1985 wrote: »

WTF was that. Surely not just an accident

According to a number of replies, the car stopped a couple of hundred metres up the road, and both the police and an ambulance attended the scene

Tombo2001 · 30-11-2020 12:02pm

Wow thats a scary one.

I reported a close pass to Mountjoy Garda Station last year, never heard a thing back.

Thanks.

Thelonious Monk · 30-11-2020 2:11pm

jesus that made me jump

Paddigol · 30-11-2020 3:05pm

Hopefully all ok and no serious injuries. That is shocking beyond belief. I like to think there was no vindictiveness or malice intended by the driver - even if that was 'just' a punishment pass. But regardless, should someone with that level of driving skill be allowed hold a license to drive a multi-ton vehicle at speeds exceeding 100km on roads shared with runners, walkers and cyclists? It makes a mockery of the licensing system that you can fail your test numerous times for the most insignificant of errors, and yet once you get the thing its almost impossible to lose it despite appalling displays of ineptitude, carelessness, negligence and willful misconduct.

That was just shocking. Hopefully no lasting scars, physical or mental. I know I'd be fairly shook up if taken out like that even if I managed to avoid broken bones.

Tombo2001 · 30-11-2020 4:41pm

Ironic how in the video, the driver waits for a safe place to pull in.

tomasrojo · 30-11-2020 5:46pm

Paddigol wrote: »

I like to think there was no vindictiveness or malice intended by the driver - even if that was 'just' a punishment pass.

It's probably impossible to prove intent, but in an ideal world people who take it into their heads to use motorised vehicles to do punishment passes or prank passes just wouldn't have licences, regardless of whether they're otherwise good or bad drivers.

(Not disagreeing with you, Paddigol; intending to collide is obviously more serious again.)

CramCycle · 30-11-2020 5:54pm

Even if there was no intent, that person still should not have a license and allowing them to continue to do so enforces the idea that not paying attention is acceptable and OK, even if you do kill or seriously injure someone.

magicbastarder · 30-11-2020 6:02pm

i've frequently been bemused by the notion that the gardai can stop you for driving illegally, and in many of those contexts, you're allowed drive off again, suitably chastened. it's kinda like being caught shoplifting in arnott's and being allowed remain on premises after to complete your shopping.

Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

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