Waterford University discussion

Sully · 26-09-2008 4:37pm #1

Okay, as most of you remember we closed the other University discussion thread because people refused to discuss it without throwing abusive comments at each other, attacking posters and being general idiots. Its been a fair bit of time since then, so it has been agreed to go with attempt #2. This time, no **** will be taken. This is your only warning: Stick to the Waterford City Forum Charter & Boards.ie Rules.

For those who wish to discuss the pros/cons of a university in WIT, you may do so in this thread. Lets have a civil, friendly debate. Not everybody is going to agree/disagree with a University being granted in Waterford - so don't attack them for having a different opinion to yours. Debate their point by all means, just don't go throwing abuse at them for having such an opinion. Attack the Post. NOT the Poster.

Sorry for a serious first post, but after the last discussion, its needed!

chickenhawk · 26-09-2008 4:47pm

I don't think WIT should be upgraded to a university. I don't see the need for it. People in this country are obsessed by status. I went to UCD and don't feel that I would be any better off had I gone to Trinity or Sligo IT etc. A Institute of Technology is established to focus on different areas of study compared to universities and they should aim to excel in that area, not go trying to become a university because it sounds better.

If you look at the worlds top third level colleges one that is always ranked within the top ten is Massachusettes Institute of Technology. They have become the best in their field and no one who goes to Harvard would ever look down at someone who went to MIT and say they went to an inferrior college.

Just because it is not called a university does not mean it can not be one of the best third level institutions in the country or world.

Chochese · 26-09-2008 5:18pm

I don't understand why WIT needs to be upgraded to a University. By tradition, an IT is a centre for study for fields like Computers, Business, Sciences etc. All fields where WIT are excelling. In contrast, a University traditionally caters for Arts (Languages, Histories, Political Aciences...), Medicine and the like, courses in which WIT do not have strong (if any) connections or courses.

Why try to be a mediocre university when WIT can be a world class IT.

Fajitas! · 26-09-2008 5:26pm

Chochese wrote: »

Why try to be a mediocre university when WIT can be a world class IT.

+1

Nolanger · 26-09-2008 8:18pm

Could be worth it for the top Waterford students wanting to study medicine, dentistry etc. But even these courses don't guarantee jobs anymore e.g. Physiotherapy.
Irish universities are not the best anyway so it would be better for Waterford becoming one of the world's best Technology Institutes rather than not even making the world's top 1000 of universities.

Fajitas! · 26-09-2008 8:22pm

It'd be interesting to see the potential difference in fee's between Uni & IT status colleges when they come in.

It might change some peoples minds.

stick-dan · 26-09-2008 9:01pm

Fajitas! wrote: »

It'd be interesting to see the potential difference in fee's between Uni & IT status colleges when they come in.

It might change some peoples minds.

+1

Sully · 26-09-2008 10:56pm

The management/organisation in WIT is terrible. Im not sure if its the same in all ITs/Universities but its shocking what the college gets away with at times. Iv argued that if this is how it is at an IT, imagine if it was a University - it could be a LOT worse. Others say it would improve (more money, able to hire better staff etc.)

Im unsure, but this is one reason why im more against rather then for. I like the idea of a world class IT tho.

Dan133269 · 27-09-2008 12:23am

Fajitas! wrote: »

It'd be interesting to see the potential difference in fee's between Uni & IT status colleges when they come in.

It might change some peoples minds.

Bat O' Keefe said the threshold for families' income would be no less than 100,000 euro. If they don't stick to that they'll be lambasted and rightfully so. Thankfully that won't affect the majority of college goers.

Sully wrote: »

The management/organisation in WIT is terrible. Im not sure if its the same in all ITs/Universities but its shocking what the college gets away with at times. Iv argued that if this is how it is at an IT, imagine if it was a University - it could be a LOT worse. Others say it would improve (more money, able to hire better staff etc.)

Im unsure, but this is one reason why im more against rather then for. I like the idea of a world class IT tho.

Have heard that from numerous people who went to the WIT. Seems to be something that some colleges have. I went to UL for 4 years and can't really complain about organisation, administrative or structual problems, apart from the college placement/co-operative department which was an absolute farce. Mary I in Limerick is apparently unbelieveable for this problem. Have heard stories from reliable sources of printing facilities being shut down at random and without explanation, students being informed in the middle of exams that they have 30 minues less than what they were supposed to have and what is printed on exam paper.

Anyway, I think changing WIT to a university would be a bad decision. It's working very well the way it is, if it's not broke, don't fix it. HOWEVER, to address the area of a university for the south east, if it's really needed (I'm not saying it isn't, I just don't know for sure, proper research has to be done. Not just looking at a map of Ireland and pointing out a blank area in the south east) then a separate University should be built in Waterford.

Imagine if WIT was upgraded to University, something which by the way I don't think has ever happened in the history of the state, you would then have a situation where school leavers would be faced with the option of attending a post leaving cert. college i.e. waterford college of further education or a big leap to university with no IT in between.
Furthermore the courses will have changed seeing as ITs and Universities have different emphases on courses, and many school leavers will be forced to leave Waterford just to do an IT course seeing as there would be no IT in Waterford.

Deise-Girl..xx · 27-09-2008 2:20pm

wit does not deserve university status. The college is badly run. There is a lot of problems in wit. One of the main ones is the parking situation. They can build new state of the art buildings yet they cant provide parking spaces for the people attending.
Im a second yr student and have loads of questions from 1st yrs about where to find rooms, lecturers offices etc. I think wit is totally unhelpful to new students. Your simply given a timetable and are expected to find your own way around.
And omg dont get me started on the reception. Usually only one person working there even though the que can be a mile long and the people working there can be ignorant and treat you as if your a nuisance.
These are only a few of the reasons why wit doesnt deserve to be a university..i could write more but id be here all day!

dlofnep · 27-09-2008 2:24pm

The parking at the moment is outrageous. It gets worse and worse every year. You literally don't have a spot unless you're in at 9am classes. They really need to rectify this. There is alot of grass that could be slabbed down. I don't care what X amount of grass is needed. I'm sure the residents would rather it slabbed down than have cars littered throughout Lismore Park. I'll definately be campaigning on it this year.

Sully · 27-09-2008 3:56pm

dlofnep wrote: »

The parking at the moment is outrageous. It gets worse and worse every year. You literally don't have a spot unless you're in at 9am classes. They really need to rectify this. There is alot of grass that could be slabbed down. I don't care what X amount of grass is needed. I'm sure the residents would rather it slabbed down than have cars littered throughout Lismore Park. I'll definately be campaigning on it this year.

If I recall, they cant build on the grass. There not allowed. Saying that though, they seem more interested in putting new buildings elsewhere before looking at the parking situation. This year, its been made worse by reducing the amount of spaces (id say by at least a 100) available. Go park elsewhere, the Gardai are now fining people. Saying that, can we hold the parking situation against them? Yes, but not for university.

Saying that though, looking at the bigger picture of WIT and its problems - its a terribly run IT, constant problems for staff and students, lack of communication between staff and students, and thats not evening mentioning College St. The School of Humanites is probably the worst run department in the college.

dlofnep · 27-09-2008 5:29pm

Sully wrote: »

Go park elsewhere

But where? But around 10:30, even Lismore Park is full. There is the IDA carparks, but they are quick to clamp you. I can stick mine in the AOL carpark if I'm stuck, but not everyone is that lucky. The college is obligated to provide sufficient parking spaces. People are late for classes, often missing entire classes in search of a parking space. I actually used to come in for breakfast at 9 last year, before 10am classes just so I could get a space. And working til midnight the night before, the last thing you want is to get up out of bed an our earlier than you have to.

They need to sort out something, and something lively.

Sully · 27-09-2008 6:12pm

dlofnep wrote: »

But where? But around 10:30, even Lismore Park is full. There is the IDA carparks, but they are quick to clamp you. I can stick mine in the AOL carpark if I'm stuck, but not everyone is that lucky. The college is obligated to provide sufficient parking spaces. People are late for classes, often missing entire classes in search of a parking space. I actually used to come in for breakfast at 9 last year, before 10am classes just so I could get a space. And working til midnight the night before, the last thing you want is to get up out of bed an our earlier than you have to.

They need to sort out something, and something lively.

Selective quoting is bad - how many times do I have to tell you!!

My point being made is, if you go to park anywhere else bar the college your getting fined. Im not telling people to "park elsehwere" as you suggest!

I know people are parking in the campus besides the AIB bank and also some down in Waterford Crystal. But thats only a select few I know doing it. A lot of people just say "**** it, ill get clamped".

BlaasForRafa · 27-09-2008 6:50pm

Theres a thread about something crucial to the future of Waterford and the South-East and people are talking about f**king parking???, no wonder Waterford dosen't get anywhere if thats what we're debating.

As per usual when a thread comes up about Waterford having a university you have outsiders saying we don't need one, usually from people from cities that already have a university or have a downer on Waterford but its heartbreaking to see Waterford people saying we don't need one. Wheres the ambition in this city???

A large pool of university educated young people is one of the main reasons that high value employers, look at Galway, 30 years ago Galway was half the size of Waterford and now its bigger than Waterford. Now with recession biting and the need for a more well educated population greater than ever we're really behind the 8 ball when it comes to attractiveness to foreign investors.

This city has relied on big manufacturing companies like Waterford Crystal, Bausch and Lomb and others over the years but manufacturing is dead, there will not be any major factories come to Waterford again..why should they when they can go to China. We need high-value jobs in the knowledge and service economy to come here but why should they when they can go to Galway, Cork or Limerick.....let alone Dublin.

And this business about striving to be the best IT, other than MIT name me some other famous ITs? The IT designation was only brought into place as a sop to Waterford during the 1997 election campaign when we were looking for university status to distinguish Waterford from the other Regional Technical Colleges. The Cork RTC piped up with a "why should they be an IT and not us" and then Cork based minister Micheal Martin came into power and suddenly ALL the RTCs were Institutes of Technology thus losing the unique designation that only Waterford and DIT were meant to have.

Also the populations of surrounding counties Kilkenny, Wexford, Carlow and South Tipp also suffer in jobs terms by not having a university nearby, their kids have to travel long distances if they want a university education.

Sully · 27-09-2008 8:01pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Theres a thread about something crucial to the future of Waterford and the South-East and people are talking about f**king parking???, no wonder Waterford dosen't get anywhere if thats what we're debating.

Aye well I do agree with you there, but I think its part of an argument showing how bad the place actually is. Thus coming to the conclusion, that giving it university status when its in such a state (regardless of what type of education or facilities you get, which can also be questioned) would not be a good idea. Its a point, but I doubt its even part of the debate held amongst officials.

chickenhawk · 27-09-2008 8:26pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And this business about striving to be the best IT, other than MIT name me some other famous ITs?

Swiss Federal Institute of Technology ranked in top thirty in the world.

Karolinska Institute of Technology top 50

Tokyo Institute of Technology top 100

etc etc

johnnyq · 27-09-2008 9:25pm

chickenhawk wrote: »

Swiss Federal Institute of Technology ranked in top thirty in the world.

Karolinska Institute of Technology top 50

Tokyo Institute of Technology top 100

etc etc

Eh, I hate to disappoint the 'well MIT is one of the Best IT's in the world why not Waterford IT' argument but all of the places you listed are in fact *universities* that kept their IT name.

Just to repeat, they are actually universities!!

Waterford IT is just one of 12? other regional colleges around Ireland under HETAC. Nothing Special!

The point of the whole University discussion is that Waterford would break away from the HETAC quagmire and go solo - with a hell of a lot more funding to solve the parking and other problems people are moaning about.

Call it Waterford Clown college for all anyone cares, it's all about breaking away from HETAC so Waterford will no longer be on a par with Tralee/Letterkenny IT!!

Until that happens, Waterford will slump backwards.

By all means keep the WIT name, just get the independent uni status!

chickenhawk · 27-09-2008 10:15pm

johnnyq wrote: »

Just to repeat, they are actually universities!!

Lucky you repeated that or I wouldn't have understood what you were saying. :rolleyes:

But I'll own up and say I thought they were ITs.

christophicus · 28-09-2008 12:59pm

I have to agree, the organisation within the college is insainly bad. I know first years that had recieved no info about college starting even up to 3 days before they were supposed to register. TBH its really a farce, I don't know if university status would change it , but atm the college does not derserve Uni status. I would like to see WIT get all of the organisational aspects in check before it can credibly be considered for university status, and yes I am a student there so I have some hands on expeariance in the college.

johnnyq · 28-09-2008 10:26pm

christophicus wrote: »

I have to agree, the organisation within the college is insainly bad. I know first years that had recieved no info about college starting even up to 3 days before they were supposed to register. TBH its really a farce, I don't know if university status would change it , but atm the college does not derserve Uni status. I would like to see WIT get all of the organisational aspects in check before it can credibly be considered for university status, and yes I am a student there so I have some hands on expeariance in the college.

I really am amazed how administration holds such sway amongst students at WIT?

Here is the list of criteria for the THES-QS World University Rankings :
-Academic excellence (research, citations/faculty),
-Teaching (faculty/student ratio),
-Internationality (how international the faculty is, how international the student body is)
-Profile of the institution with employers.

Does anyone see admin listed there?

I mean really, when ye decided to go to a college (wit or whatever) did ye say 'Oh Yeah I hear the admin is great there'?!?!

C'mon folks, can't ye see the benefit to Waterford and to ye're selves if WIT got proper research funding and started attracting international researchers??

The focus on timetables etc.. is really cutting off ye're nose to spite your face.

Sully · 28-09-2008 10:46pm

johnnyq wrote: »

I really am amazed how administration holds such sway amongst students at WIT?

Here is the list of criteria for the THES-QS World University Rankings :
-Academic excellence (research, citations/faculty),
-Teaching (faculty/student ratio),
-Internationality (how international the faculty is, how international the student body is)
-Profile of the institution with employers.

Does anyone see admin listed there?

I mean really, when ye decided to go to a college (wit or whatever) did ye say 'Oh Yeah I hear the admin is great there'?!?!

Its very stressful for students in a college that is very badly run. In fact, it would probably put people off - people wont attend a IT/University if its going to be more stressful then its worth. It has a knock on affect on each point you just made. That's just the admin side of things, I could call into question other points also such as teaching quality and facilities.

C'mon folks, can't ye see the benefit to Waterford and to ye're selves if WIT got proper research funding and started attracting international researchers??

Possibly, but the point being made is: If WIT was upgrade as badly run as it is now, would it be far worse and turn more people away? Should it be upgraded if its not going to make the problem go away?

The focus on timetables etc.. is really cutting off ye're nose to spite your face.

Timetables isn't really the problem, but now that you say it - no timetables, means no lectures, means no lecturer, means no academic excellence.

But thats on a large scale. For most, it only takes like 4/5 weeks before it gets sorted. After that, its only the odd problem if any. But, thats just one minor issue.

johnnyq · 28-09-2008 10:59pm

Sully wrote: »

Its very stressful for students in a college that is very badly run. In fact, it would probably put people off - people wont attend a IT/University if its going to be more stressful then its worth. It has a knock on affect on each point you just made. That's just the admin side of things, I could call into question other points also such as teaching quality and facilities.

Possibly, but the point being made is: If WIT was upgrade as badly run as it is now, would it be far worse and turn more people away? Should it be upgraded if its not going to make the problem go away?

Timetables isn't really the problem, but now that you say it - no timetables, means no lectures, means no lecturer, means no academic excellence. But thats on a large scale. For most, it only takes like 4/5 weeks before it gets sorted. After that, its only the odd problem if any. But, thats just one minor issue.

How badly is WIT run?
Rat Infested?
No electricity?
Every room is double booked?

Is it really that 'stressful'?

All of what I've read on this thread would be solved by an increase in funding that uni status would bring.

If anything, maintaining IT status will make the problems you elude to even worse because of budget cutbacks.

Sully · 28-09-2008 11:48pm

johnnyq wrote: »

How badly is WIT run?
Rat Infested?
No electricity?
Every room is double booked?

Is it really that 'stressful'?

WIT couldnt run if either of the above were happening (bar the last one, which is common enough). But, I do laugh at the building work going on in one building. The dust in the building and noise is pretty bad, yet the building has classes and students walking in such an unhealthy enviroment. Ill list a few of the more basic problems, as I dont want to go into to much detail on individuals problems.

- We are nearly 4 weeks into college and I have heard students complain about no timetables at all resulting in no lecturers. Luckily, this hasnt happened in my course over the last few years (bar one subject, where I had to go the registrar to get a lecturer assigned.) but others have been affected by it. Including 4th years in one course.

- Others have had lecturers not showing up, and I have heard about lecturers attending only a few hours and then heading home. Others go to class for a half an hour, and leaving class early. Others showing up, class numbers low, so cancelling class. Lecturers ignoring emails, not having an email, not having an office, not being contactable by the department head. Supplying students the wrong information on whats coming up in their exam etc.

- We heard hear, and from speaking to 1st years, they knew nothing about registration or induction until very late.

- One 3rd year student returned to college to find *all* data on him has been lost.

- Rooms double booked, to many students for a room, computers not working, computers being very slow.

- Timetable clashes including in exam situations.

- 3rd years returning to college to find that WIT has not contacted the places they are due to go on work experience in that week, to find out they will not have a full week of work experience but must return to college every friday for class.

- Lecturers teaching a subject they dont know very well themselves (some can only explain whats on a slide, and nothing else).

- Lack of communication between staff and students, college departments and staff/students.

Christ theres far more basic ones, and these all happen on such a regular basis that its a pain for a student to try and get resolved. You would expect to go into WIT to be educated straight away (€900 registration, excl. fees for those repeating) without problems (or minor, not so common) rather then having an up hill battle trying to get things sorted.

All of what I've read on this thread would be solved by an increase in funding that uni status would bring.

If anything, maintaining IT status will make the problems you elude to even worse because of budget cutbacks.

Well, thats the question being asked: WILL it solve it, or would it make it even worse? Id imagine cutbacks will affect Universities also.

johnnyq · 29-09-2008 12:17am

Assigning one administrator to look after each problem you listed there would cost
c.30000*10 = 300,000 a year. That's it.

300,000 vs millions for WIT and the local economy.

University = More Funding. End of.

How will more funding make the problems you listed worse?

How do you expect the problems you listed to be solved, when you want to restrict WIT getting more funding? It baffles me?

Your preference atm is Waterford IT = Tralee IT over silly technicalities.

Sully · 29-09-2008 9:07am

johnnyq wrote: »

Assigning one administrator to look after each problem you listed there would cost
c.30000*10 = 300,000 a year. That's it.

300,000 vs millions for WIT and the local economy.

University = More Funding. End of.

I don't think lack of funding is a problem at the moment (well, not a major thorn in the side at least). I would think that the foundations of a college should be operating first ("University Like"?!). Then again, that's just your average joe-so view of how things are decided.

I think its known that Universities are finding it tough as it is, which is one reason why don't want WIT upgraded.

How will more funding make the problems you listed worse?

How do you expect the problems you listed to be solved, when you want to restrict WIT getting more funding? It baffles me

At the moment, WIT are claiming they are "University Like". The way the college is running, is not really like a university at all. They have used the funding they have got over the years on other things, and have ignored a worsening problem in the core foundations of the college.

I think a lot of students and parents who have been affected by the problems in WIT in one way or another, would feel that perhaps these problems should be overcome first before giving them University status. The question is, WILL they use the cash to sort out those problems or will they carry on building? There was talk about using the cash to draw in better lecturers in addition.

I'm all for the idea of upgrading, as I think its a lot more then an IT at this stage. It offers a lot, but some of whats offered isn't reaching its full potential. Perhaps more money will allow to work on these, but if its been ignore up to now - it might be ignored in future also.

I have heard staff (incl. lecturers) give out about the place and are shocked they are looking for university status.

Your preference atm is Waterford IT = Tralee IT over silly technicalities.

Where did I make that comparison?

christophicus · 29-09-2008 9:20am

johnnyq wrote: »

Assigning one administrator to look after each problem you listed there would cost
c.30000*10 = 300,000 a year. That's it.

300,000 vs millions for WIT and the local economy.

University = More Funding. End of.

How will more funding make the problems you listed worse?

How do you expect the problems you listed to be solved, when you want to restrict WIT getting more funding? It baffles me?

Your preference atm is Waterford IT = Tralee IT over silly technicalities.

In all fairness just throwing money at problems does not mean they will be magically fixed ( See the Irish health services over the last 6/7 years ). The reason I am looking at admin in particular is because that is something that you should be able to improve without investing too much money in it, so its something that the college should be able to sort out before becoming a University, at least to a certain extent.

Dr. Baltar · 01-10-2008 2:45am

I am currently in UL and I'm here because my course wasn't offered in WIT.
The amount of money that my parents are paying weekly to keep me up here is pretty ridiculous to say the least.

Coming from a financial point of view and nothing else, I do believe that WIT should be aiming for University status because I think it's unfair that there is a University located in every part of the country with the exception of the South-East.

We are the only people that are forced to spend a lot of money to go to University and that, I think, is definately most unfair.

robtri · 01-10-2008 8:12am

Sir Baralot wrote: »

I am currently in UL and I'm here because my course wasn't offered in WIT.
The amount of money that my parents are paying weekly to keep me up here is pretty ridiculous to say the least.

Coming from a financial point of view and nothing else, I do believe that WIT should be aiming for University status because I think it's unfair that there is a University located in every part of the country with the exception of the South-East.

We are the only people that are forced to spend a lot of money to go to University and that, I think, is definately most unfair.

New at what a university compared to an IT is... but are you saying that if WIT became an University it would start to offer all these new course straight away??? how can it do that? rooms, space, lectuers, professors?

Psychedelic · 01-10-2008 7:50pm

A decision on the upgrade to WIT will be made within the next couple of weeks:

Decision expected on Waterford’s long-running bid for university status

By Conor Kane
WATERFORD Institute of Technology’s application for university status is likely to be decided upon by the Government in the coming weeks.

But Education Minister Batt O’Keeffe has warned the application raised “significant issues” regarding third-level policy and the roles played by universities and institutes of technology.

The matter was raised in the Dáil by Labour party TD Brian O’Shea. He asked for an update on Waterford’s long-running bid to be re-designated as the University of the South-East.

Full article here: http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=73644-qqqx=1.asp

Sully · 01-10-2008 8:09pm

By reading between the lines im not sure but it doesnt sound to good for WIT...

robtri · 02-10-2008 8:03am

From what I am reading here, a lot of people seem to think that WIT is badly run, terrible facilities and a list of problems as long as your arm....
All I hear is lets make it a Uni and that will solve all our problems....
my Question is HOW???? if it is badly run now what difference will Uni status have, yes more money, but if the guys and gals running the show are incompetent, throwing money at the problem doesn't help in fact if often makes things worse...
So can anyone tell me how all these issues are magically going to be solved by Uni status...

BlaasForRafa · 02-10-2008 6:07pm

Sully wrote: »

By reading between the lines im not sure but it doesnt sound to good for WIT...

Yes well having a Cork based minister means we were going to be f**ked over anyway.

BlaasForRafa · 02-10-2008 6:09pm

robtri wrote: »

From what I am reading here, a lot of people seem to think that WIT is badly run, terrible facilities and a list of problems as long as your arm....
All I hear is lets make it a Uni and that will solve all our problems....
my Question is HOW???? if it is badly run now what difference will Uni status have, yes more money, but if the guys and gals running the show are incompetent, throwing money at the problem doesn't help in fact if often makes things worse...
So can anyone tell me how all these issues are magically going to be solved by Uni status...

People are bringing up administrative details that happen in almost every college or uni. The status of the organisation won't affect that.

Thats not my point and what happens on a day to day basis I'm not concerned about, its what having a university would do for the south east and how it would improve the quality and quantity of jobs that come to the south east.

robtri · 03-10-2008 7:55am

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

People are bringing up administrative details that happen in almost every college or uni. The status of the organisation won't affect that.

Thats not my point and what happens on a day to day basis I'm not concerned about, its what having a university would do for the south east and how it would improve the quality and quantity of jobs that come to the south east.

Ok so how will having a Uni here improve the quantity and quality of jobs that come to the southeast??

KingLoser · 03-10-2008 4:15pm

Batt O'Keeffe is meeting with all 3 institutions that applied in the next weeks...?

Why is it that WIT had to jump through hoops to get this far, with independant assessments etc. and DIT / CIT need only raise their hand?

Sully · 03-10-2008 4:35pm

He has already been and gone a few times I believe. From what I hear, hes a lot nicer then the previous Education Minister and they are feeling confident. Its unlikely, from what im told, that there will be a straight objection but instead either the granting of a university (since the report speaks very favourably for WIT) or changing the way ITs work.

KingLoser; I think the report talked about ITs in general and WIT, but saying that, CIT only applied after the report unless im mistaken?

Nolanger · 04-10-2008 12:45pm

Can't find last week's Times' Irish College league table for 2008 but WIT is now number 10.

BlaasForRafa · 04-10-2008 12:47pm

robtri wrote: »

Ok so how will having a Uni here improve the quantity and quality of jobs that come to the southeast??

read my earlier post. and try not using "ok so" at the start of a post, it makes you sound combative.

johnnyq · 04-10-2008 3:57pm

Sully wrote: »

I don't think lack of funding is a problem at the moment (well, not a major thorn in the side at least).

Yes funding is the problem. It has an effect on everything you listed complaining about WIT. An extra staff member dedicated to timetabling, emails etc.. would solve those issues that you think merit holding WIT back.

I would think that the foundations of a college should be operating first ("University Like"?!). Then again, that's just your average joe-so view of how things are decided.

At the moment, WIT are claiming they are "University Like". The way the college is running, is not really like a university at all. They have used the funding they have got over the years on other things, and have ignored a worsening problem in the core foundations of the college.

How do you expect them to operate university like, without university like funding? Tmk, funding per student in UCD is at least 3 times that for a student in WIT. Is that fair, when WIT is trying to bring itself up to university standards.

I think a lot of students and parents who have been affected by the problems in WIT in one way or another, would feel that perhaps these problems should be overcome first before giving them University status. The question is, WILL they use the cash to sort out those problems or will they carry on building?

Funding for buildings are allocated separately to the day to day college funding. Anyway the problems you listed cost a fraction of the cost of a building to solve, so you're not comparing like with like.

There was talk about using the cash to draw in better lecturers in addition.

That can't happen while WIT is part of HETAC. That is the problem. The salary scale in WIT is pegged to all the other IT's, not the universities, whose lecturers are much better paid. If WIT became a university, only then could lecturers be paid more than other IT's.

I'm all for the idea of upgrading, as I think its a lot more then an IT at this stage. It offers a lot, but some of whats offered isn't reaching its full potential.

You don't sound like you like the idea at all. Why is that? Don't let a few administrators cloud your judgement. A university would be a substantial improvement to waterford, bringing more jobs and stopping a brain-drain to other parts of the country.

Where did I make that comparison? (Waterford IT = Tralee IT)

You didn't, I did.
But then it's the truth isn't it. WIT is just one of 12 other IT's like Tralee and the funding for waterford is pegged to them.

johnnyq · 04-10-2008 4:05pm

robtri wrote: »

From what I am reading here, a lot of people seem to think that WIT is badly run, terrible facilities and a list of problems as long as your arm....
All I hear is lets make it a Uni and that will solve all our problems....
my Question is HOW???? if it is badly run now what difference will Uni status have, yes more money, but if the guys and gals running the show are incompetent, throwing money at the problem doesn't help in fact if often makes things worse...
So can anyone tell me how all these issues are magically going to be solved by Uni status...

Eh, I estimated that the cost to fix the problem would be 300,000.

Uni status has very little to do with admin, it's about getting more money to pay for better lecturers and researchers, which should attract more students to the region, which attracts more high value companies to waterford, to hire the students, which have the training to perform the high value jobs.
This then helps more spin off companies to set up to service the big companies and hey-presto, Waterford no longer is an unemployment black spot.

That's why waterford should have a university.

redroar1942 · 04-10-2008 4:13pm

Where does WIT come in Irish IT rankings such as student numbers,results, job returns from courses attended etc?

johnnyq · 04-10-2008 4:46pm

redroar1942 wrote: »

Where does WIT come in Irish IT rankings such as student numbers,results, job returns from courses attended etc?

Munster Express wrote:

WIT 10th of 22 in Sunday Times “Guide”
Friday, October 3rd, 2008

by Tom Young

Waterford IT climbed one place to 10th of 22 in the Sunday Times annual league table of Irish Universities and Institutes of Technology, published last Sunday in the paper’s University Guide for 2008.

Although below Waterford in the league in 11th place, Limerick won the paper’s IT of the Year accolade, ahead of Blanchardstown in runner-up position. Limerick was a lowly 18th two years ago and its profile in the Guide makes reference to the “steady progress” it has made.

NUI Maynooth is declared University of the Year, with UCD the runner-up.

The league table is drawn up using a range of criteria, including average Leaving Cert points for entry, research funding per academic, graduate employment, the quality of degree results achieved, student/staff ratios and dropout rates.

Despite its mid table position, WIT’s profile is highly
complimentary. “Pioneering WIT”, it says, “has introduced the Republic’s first honours degrees in entertainment systems and another in airline transport operations this month, as well as one in quantity surveying.

“It starts a BSc (Hons) in culinary arts next year and has upgraded most of its courses to direct-entry degrees. This month it expanded further into the traditional domain of universities by offering an arts degree - the south east’s first.

“The main Cork Road site houses the library and a new €25m tourism
and leisure department. An architectural, engineering and science, business and student services building is due to open in 2010. The Institute has two other campuses, College Street and the 170-acre Carriganore West, which houses the ArcLab Research and Innovation Cenre.

“Carriganore is where Waterford will develop the south east’s premier sports complex to cater for many of the Institute’s 53 clubs and societies, which range from golf and horse riding through to debating and law.

“There are 623 college-owned rooms and about 40 pc of first-years live in. A further 1,877 privately-owned study bedrooms are also available.

“The Institute, which has a new business incubator unit, has the most developed research programme in its sector and is 10th best in Ireland in terms of the amount of research funding it attracts per academic. Its research budget almost doubled to €19m last year and it has a global reputation in the fields of telecommunications software and systems research”.

According to the Guide, the first impression of WIT is of a modern place boasting impressive facilities. Its worst feature is that “being located in the south east may deter students”.

As for its facilities, the Guide says it has good computer technology and a subsidised canteen. Also, the student bar, the Dome, provides both food and daily entertainment.

And its “deal clincher”? WIT is very student-centred and the city is both student-friendly and easily accessible.

I highlighted the important part of the article.

NUI Maynooth won the 'University of the Year' Award. It had €32m in research funding and has research partnerships with Intel and other large multinationals. Wouldn't Waterford like to have that! See article.

If a small town in Co.Kildare, which is already within easy access of 3 universities in Dublin can achieve that, I think it is only just that students and people from Waterford should push for the same.

johnnyq · 04-10-2008 4:48pm

Redroar, unless you want to get banned and have this thread locked again, I think you should edit your second post (funny as it is

)

redroar1942 · 04-10-2008 4:53pm

Sounds like your making good progress down there. The ones ahead of you already have a University in close proximity. Personally I give WIT the Uni status as long as it would affect the current standard(though it could improve it). In the current climate anything to help the economy is a plus.

Did you go ahead with the Arts courses?

Sully · 04-10-2008 5:55pm

redroar1942 wrote: »

Did you go ahead with the Arts courses?

This year afaik, had to apply directly.

Elle Victorine · 06-10-2008 3:15am

Just on the topic of bad communication for new students and to the staff do you mean the WIT don't provide an induction week for the first years with a booklet outlining the departments at the very least? Or just that they don't provide guided tours? Cos that's insane if they don't even have a bloody booklet.

As regards to parking well I've heard even that complaint in UCC amongst other things so I doubt they'd resolve it even at university status. Though that's not to say it wouldn't be a slight improvement if they did provide more spaces. But that's what the bus/walking is for. An irritating solution when your departments are out of the way I know but that's probably how they're looking at it in the long run.

That said if I had had the option to stay at home and study my course I would have done it but no dice. At least I can do some sort of masters here relating to it. Would be wonderful to see an archaeology department sprouting up here though!

Sully · 06-10-2008 9:32am

A booklet is never provided IIRC. You are usually given a quick tour of the college and some information on your course. Some sort of talk and a presentation also. I think the problem mainly this year was 1st years were told very late about registration and induction. Not sure what other issues (bar the newer courses having **** all to do) they had.

As for parking, it was a massive mess last year and very dangerous. They went to far with their improvements to fix that and removed over 100 spaces.

Psychedelic · 06-10-2008 6:36pm

I don't understand why everyone has to park at the college, can people not avail of public transport? At least park somewhere near a bus stop somewhere in the city and get the bus to WIT from there. And i bet there's loads of people within walking distance that still drive there instead.

Poor parking facilities isn't a good enough reason not to upgrade WIT to a university. Several non biased international experts have spoke very favourably about WIT and would be making their judgement on more important criteria.

Also, this is not just about a university for Waterford, it's a university for the South East. The whole region would feel the benefit, hence the continued support from Kilkenny, Wexford and South Tipperary throughout the university campaign.

CIT only applied after the report unless im mistaken?

yeah i'm fairly sure Cork IT only applied after the Port report was published.

redroar1942 · 06-10-2008 10:48pm

I have mixed views on WIT offering Arts courses:

On one hand I can see why they'd do it, try and boost their chances of Uni status by actually providing more of the courses availible in other Uni's. You can teach the classes in large numbers and the subjects are so broad that they appeal to most.

On the other hand when we did a recent survey of Art's students 71% of them said they accepted the course because (a) they could'nt get the points for anything else or (b) did'nt know what they wanted (or both). My point being that the entry level points in IT's are lower then Uni's so to have any sort of credibility for an IT Arts course you going to have to have similar enrty points to Uni's i.e mid 300's. If you dont then you end up with the dregs, many of whom drop out.
Surely the students would be better off doing a course they actually thought about before hand and there are a lot of decent courses in WIT for similar points. The alternative being you raise the entry level on everything else but cut out a lot would be students in doing so. Secondary school students often dont have a clue what they want to do and sometimes fewer options is better.

I'm not being eltitist as I'm sure many students would see WIT as a viable alternative to UL,UCC etc but you may isolate some of the traditional student base if you were to raise points across the board.

On a footnote Arts is great for business 58% of arts grads stayed for another year and 39% for another year after that.

Elle Victorine · 08-10-2008 3:34am

Sully wrote: »

A booklet is never provided IIRC. You are usually given a quick tour of the college and some information on your course. Some sort of talk and a presentation also. I think the problem mainly this year was 1st years were told very late about registration and induction. Not sure what other issues (bar the newer courses having **** all to do) they had.

Yeah we had that this year. We weren't even sent an email about registration...my registration was open earlier then anyone else I knew in my course. Was mental. Well the booklet would probably be handier to be honest. Found it a great help on campus....granted it's a bit bigger here the only problem was you were left to figure out everything off campus....good luck like!

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