Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

Nqp15hhu · 12-04-2021 2:04pm

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Very little difference between Cavan and fermanagh. Belfast does have a very different feel but a lot of towns west of the bann are not much different

I live 'west of the bann' and feel that I wouldn't have much in common with someone in Cavan or Fermanagh. What you really mean is Tyrone or Fermangh, rather than west of the bann.

West of the Bann isn't a realistic term in 2021, it generalises the whole 'west' of Northern Ireland as one block. In reality there are places 'west of the bann' that have nothing in common with one another.

12-04-2021 2:13pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Your aunt is right. I don’t know what graces7 is talking about, but I did find that the English kept to themselves.

You really need to travel around England more, whatever little part you were in definitely doesn't represent the English that I know

Strumms · 12-04-2021 2:14pm

AlphabetCards wrote: »

Come south of the M4, stay away from London and you'll see a great side of this country.

I worked with a girl from Cornwall, she was great craic and had planned heading that way for a visit pre covid.. still on my ‘to do’ list.

AlphabetCards · 12-04-2021 2:22pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Balderdash and bunkum! You have no idea. And many villages and towns now are deserted.

Just takes a little longer to get to know a city in England. But it is worth it. It really is.

Eh, I live here? I've lived in garrison towns, big cities, small cities, villages, and now I've settled in Somerset. The cities are horrible (aside from Bath) but the villages are amazing. Name a village or town that is deserted? There has been a mass exodus to the villages for the past 5 years, going by house prices.

Graces7 · 12-04-2021 2:23pm

[QUOTE=Nqp15hhu;116866487

???

Nqp15hhu · 12-04-2021 2:27pm

bubblypop wrote: »

You really need to travel around England more, whatever little part you were in definitely doesn't represent the English that I know

Perhaps you need to travel around England more, instead of dismissing my real life experience.

Nqp15hhu · 12-04-2021 2:27pm

Strumms wrote: »

I worked with a girl from Cornwall, she was great craic and had planned heading that way for a visit pre covid.. still on my ‘to do’ list.

The SW is more the west culturally. The southern culture covers mostly the SE and East Anglia.

Graces7 · 12-04-2021 2:29pm

Strumms wrote: »

England is a foreign country and feels like a foreign country...

People are just so much more reserved for the most part, up north and I’ve spent time in Manchester and Newcastle where their personalities are more in line slightly with ours but the Londoners are so different, so reserved.

Just takes longer to get to know city folk. And of course English folk are different from Irish! That is totally natural and normal. And the bigger the city the longer it takes. Trust takes time.

Graces7 · 12-04-2021 2:31pm

AlphabetCards wrote: »

Eh, I live here? I've lived in garrison towns, big cities, small cities, villages, and now I've settled in Somerset. The cities are horrible (aside from Bath) but the villages are amazing. Name a village or town that is deserted? There has been a mass exodus to the villages for the past 5 years, going by house prices.

Try North Yorkshire... No city is horrible; just many prefer villages and that is fine too. Many who love cities cannot abide villages...

12-04-2021 2:39pm

Celchick wrote: »

Can be very different in some ways indeed for somewhere so close. Way of life pretty much the same overall, but intricacies therein can be nothing alike.

Food is a big one in my opinion. A good quality but affordable restaurant/cafe is so much easier to find here.

65535 wrote: »

Biggest problem is that they look down their noses to anything or anyone that is not English.
Once you can get over that hurdle you will be fine.
It is part of being 'English'

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

i was really surprised by that as well.

I was expecting the cities to be basically like Irish ones just a little nicer & maybe a little cleaner, to my horror they were a little less nicer, especially Manchester, red bricked ruins everywhere.

I was a little surprised at how drunk so many people got before football games at 3mp on a Saturday, especially street drinking.

I am curious to know where in Ireland I find this wonderful place where the people don't look down on others, the streets are full of beautifully maintained architecture and there is an abundance of good value high quality food.

15 years living here and i have yet to find it.

JKerova1 · 12-04-2021 2:48pm

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Americans believe they won the second world war

I suppose it's probably not that different from the legions of Irish people who believe that we 'won' the War of Independence against the Tans. Every nation has its narrative.

My father was English but lived in Ireland for the last 40 years of his life. I got the impression that he was often frustrated at Irish peoples constant need to put themselves down at every opportunity. For example, contrary to popular belief he found the Irish civil service to be superior to the UK's, much more efficient and better to deal with. But god forbid you mention that to any Irish person.

Tombo2001 · 12-04-2021 2:54pm

Two points I would make this:

When I was younger I spent 18 months backpacking around the world, loads of different countries. You would meet two groups of people. Firstly, the locals. Secondly, the international travellers of many many different nationalities that would rock up to the youth hostel.

Taking the second group, after 3 or 4 months I found myself gravitating almost automatically to the English/ Scottish/ Welsh. That is not to say they are the same as the Irish; but that the Irish have far more in common with the British than with any other nationality. By far far far. You hear this stuff about, the italians and the Irish share are very alike, or the Irish and the Poles or the Irish and the Portuguese or whatever. Bull. We have far more in common with the Brits than anyone else, by a long long way.

Second, yes we are different culturally to some extent. However to give some context, the cultural gap between California and Texas is far far wider than the cultural gap between London and Dublin.

Tombo2001 · 12-04-2021 2:56pm

JKerova1 wrote: »

I suppose it's probably not that different from the legions of Irish people who believe that we 'won' the War of Independence against the Tans. Every nation has its narrative.

My father was English but lived in Ireland for the last 40 years of his life. I got the impression that he was often frustrated at Irish peoples constant need to put themselves down at every opportunity. For example, contrary to popular belief he found the Irish civil service to be superior to the UK's, much more efficient and better to deal with. But god forbid you mention that to any Irish person.

But thats not the Irish putting themselves down.

When these people complain about Ireland, they are always complaining about someone else......not themselves.

WesternZulu · 12-04-2021 2:58pm

JKerova1 wrote: »

My father was English but lived in Ireland for the last 40 years of his life. I got the impression that he was often frustrated at Irish peoples constant need to put themselves down at every opportunity. For example, contrary to popular belief he found the Irish civil service to be superior to the UK's, much more efficient and better to deal with. But god forbid you mention that to any Irish person.

Absolutely, you see it all the time in Ireland where many people think that anything Irish is automatically inferior...i.e. we have the most corrupt government in the world, the country is a dump, the language is worthless, the HSE is like something you'd find in a 3rd world country, 'bogball'/'stick fighting'.

For better or worse the English are far more confident as a nation in themselves.

Nqp15hhu · 12-04-2021 3:03pm

I think the English confidence though verges on arrogance at times. There’s nothing wrong with being humble, it’s actually the best approach.

Figel Narage · 12-04-2021 3:05pm

As a person who was born and lived in the UK for a few years even at a young age I could feel the differences between both countries. Roads, houses and buildings are a bit different in my experience. People in the south (mainly greater London) from my experience are a bit more reserved and dry, don't like being approached as they probably assume nothing good will come from the interaction while in Ireland a lot of people have no problem being approached on the street. I've noticed people seem to care less or more focused on themselves out in public while in Ireland people seem to be very aware of who's around them like people will glance at each other in the street while in England I've noticed it doesn't happen as much. I've noticed the poverty that some posters have mentioned whereby some impoverished areas are really run down which you wouldn't find to the same level over here.

Government buildings · 12-04-2021 3:06pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

They are definitely unfriendly from the standpoint of reaching out or communicating with strangers. I found my course mates kept to themselves and didn’t mix outside their own groups, it was very isolating.

I found this when I went to study in college in Dublin from rural Ireland.

cgcsb · 12-04-2021 3:08pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Two points I would make this:

When I was younger I spent 18 months backpacking around the world, loads of different countries. You would meet two groups of people. Firstly, the locals. Secondly, the international travellers of many many different nationalities that would rock up to the youth hostel.

Taking the second group, after 3 or 4 months I found myself gravitating almost automatically to the English/ Scottish/ Welsh. That is not to say they are the same as the Irish; but that the Irish have far more in common with the British than with any other nationality. By far far far. You hear this stuff about, the italians and the Irish share are very alike, or the Irish and the Poles or the Irish and the Portuguese or whatever. Bull. We have far more in common with the Brits than anyone else, by a long long way.

Second, yes we are different culturally to some extent. However to give some context, the cultural gap between California and Texas is far far wider than the cultural gap between London and Dublin.

Ever been to Spain? or know many Spanish people?
A fundamentally socially liberal people with some distant Catholic baggage, most are not more than two generations away from the countryside and abject poverty. They also fundamentally believe their country to be the most corrupt/inefficient etc. and they're more correct in that belief than Irish people are. Very same attitudes to work and family as you see in Ireland.

I would say more similar to Irish folks than English (Scotland is a different).

Government buildings · 12-04-2021 3:20pm

Aegir wrote: »

I am curious to know where in Ireland I find this wonderful place where the people don't look down on others, the streets are full of beautifully maintained architecture and there is an abundance of good value high quality food.

15 years living here and i have yet to find it.

I remember going into a town in Roscommon a few years ago around midday and asking a girl passing on the street where would be a nice place to eat.

She said to me there were three places serving food and she wouldn't go near any of them!

theteal · 12-04-2021 3:36pm

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

I'd be interested to know of examples of what you dislike about Essex, could you elaborate?

There's not a huge amount that I'd actually dislike, if I did I'd be gone tbh but since you asked.

In no particular order
- the vanity is a real thing. The effort that goes into hair, clothes, cars etc. is quite eye opening. This is moreso the males of the species too.
- politics. This place is such a Tory dead cert, I just cannot comprehend how. Not sure how the Eaton club represent the white van/blue collar average worker out here but I'm just a blow-in, what would I know?! I've been on the losing side of every vote since I've been here. the lack of PR doesn't sit right.

Graces7 · 12-04-2021 3:39pm

Figel Narage wrote: »

As a person who was born and lived in the UK for a few years even at a young age I could feel the differences between both countries. Roads, houses and buildings are a bit different in my experience. People in the south (mainly greater London) from my experience are a bit more reserved and dry, don't like being approached as they probably assume nothing good will come from the interaction while in Ireland a lot of people have no problem being approached on the street. I've noticed people seem to care less or more focused on themselves out in public while in Ireland people seem to be very aware of who's around them like people will glance at each other in the street while in England I've noticed it doesn't happen as much. I've noticed the poverty that some posters have mentioned whereby some impoverished areas are really run down which you wouldn't find to the same level over here.

I would far rather time were taken before any great familiarity than an over effusive greeting that was hollow and very temporary/

begbysback · 12-04-2021 3:41pm

We drink their tea, speak their language and support their football teams, other than the accents it may as well be home.

cgcsb · 12-04-2021 3:44pm

begbysback wrote: »

We drink their tea, speak their language and support their football teams, other than the accents it may as well be home.

Football isn't really all that popular in Ireland.

L1011 · 12-04-2021 3:46pm

begbysback wrote: »

We drink their tea, speak their language and support their football teams, other than the accents it may as well be home.

Our preferred tea blends are rather stronger than that drunk in most of England. You need to get Yorkshire Tea or another heavily assam based blend to avoid getting some fragranced awfulness.

cgcsb wrote: »

Football isn't really all that popular in Ireland.

Most popular participant sport (albeit I don't think more popular than all four GAA sports combined); huge amount of money spent on TV coverage of it, flights to matches in normal times etc etc.

begbysback · 12-04-2021 3:55pm

L1011 wrote: »

Our preferred tea blends are rather stronger than that drunk in most of England. You need to get Yorkshire Tea or another heavily assam based blend to avoid getting some fragranced awfulness.

Most popular participant sport (albeit I don't think more popular than all four GAA sports combined); huge amount of money spent on TV coverage of it, flights to matches in normal times etc etc.

Just leave the teabag in for longer when over there

WesternZulu · 12-04-2021 3:57pm

L1011 wrote: »

Most popular participant sport (albeit I don't think more popular than all four GAA sports combined); huge amount of money spent on TV coverage of it, flights to matches in normal times etc etc.

Soccer has more people that play at all levels such as 5-a-sides but I'm fairly sure gaelic football and hurling both have more playing at a competitive level.

For all intents and purposes soccer/football is only something Irish people truly get into every 2 years depending on if Ireland gets to a WC or European championship. Unfortunately, we simply don't have the same soccer culture as England, no-where near it.

Nqp15hhu · 12-04-2021 4:04pm

Football is very popular here.

12-04-2021 4:05pm

You never hear too many hating Kerry.

Jim2007 · 12-04-2021 4:21pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

So for me, yes certain aspects feel foreign, others don’t. Obviously for me it wouldn’t quite be the same as going to Spain etc.

It's no different to any other European country, some of the values, expectations, ways of doing things etc are the same and some are not. Just because we speak a similar language does not make it any less foreign, it just makes it easier to understand them.

Here in Switzerland we get a lot of our TV and so on from Germany, but when we go there it does not seem any less foreign than crossing over into France or Italy and don't get me started on Austria!

But Ireland has changed dramatically over the past 30 years or so. Apart from a few individuals the feeling sorry for ourselves has been replaced with a sense of self confidence, a very different value system. From the products on the shelves to the way we go about things, it's a very different place today.

About 3 years ago I spent a week in Dublin with a UK colleague who had not been in Dublin for over 15 years and he made the comment: Dublin no longer feels like a British city anymore and I tend to agree with him. It's more like most European cities.

12-04-2021 4:42pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Perhaps you need to travel around England more, instead of dismissing my real life experience.

I have travelled a lot of England, including living there. Most of my family live there. so thats MY real life experience.
Your real life experience seems to come from whatever part you lived in, but nowhere else.
England is a big country.

Tombo2001 · 12-04-2021 4:47pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Ever been to Spain? or know many Spanish people?
A fundamentally socially liberal people with some distant Catholic baggage, most are not more than two generations away from the countryside and abject poverty. They also fundamentally believe their country to be the most corrupt/inefficient etc. and they're more correct in that belief than Irish people are. Very same attitudes to work and family as you see in Ireland.

I would say more similar to Irish folks than English (Scotland is a different).

Yes, I have been to Spain heaps of times.

Climate completely different.
Landscape completely different.
Food completely different.
Language obviously different.
Culturally very little overlap (TV, Music, Arts).

Fundamentally socially liberal; and yet was run by a fascist dictator my lifetime and continues to have a monarchy.

Ironically, we are culturally probably far more aligned with Catalonia than greater Spain.

Nqp15hhu · 12-04-2021 5:15pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I have travelled a lot of England, including living there. Most of my family live there. so thats MY real life experience.
Your real life experience seems to come from whatever part you lived in, but nowhere else.
England is a big country.

Don’t patronise me. Your experience is not more valuable.

12-04-2021 5:20pm

theteal wrote: »

There's not a huge amount that I'd actually dislike, if I did I'd be gone tbh but since you asked.

In no particular order
- the vanity is a real thing. The effort that goes into hair, clothes, cars etc. is quite eye opening. This is moreso the males of the species too.

when did you leave Ireland? it sounds as though you haven't kept in touch with the Prada wearing, botox injecting fake tan covered youth of today.

and as for the girls.......

12-04-2021 6:09pm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Don’t patronise me. Your experience is not more valuable.

Neither is yours

kildare lad · 12-04-2021 6:17pm

Depend what part , I've been to England and good few times and the only real difference is the accents , although while visiting a relative in birmingham I felt I was in India .

BalcombeSt4 · 12-04-2021 6:25pm

I think an interesting question would be the roles reversed. Do English people feel like Ireland (as a whole) is a foreign country?

When the North erupted in 69/70 ministers & officials in the Wilson government admitted they had no clue about Ireland, Irish culture or Irish politics, and when the Heath government came to power in July 1970 it was very much the same attitude.

The biggest mistake the Wilson government made was sending troops to Ireland & leaving the Unionists in charge of them. And then when Labour came back to power in 74, during the UWC Strike he made the infamous "Spongers" speech, which to be fair he wasn't wrong, Unionists do sponge of the British state.

Jim2007 · 12-04-2021 6:27pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I have travelled a lot of England, including living there. Most of my family live there. so thats MY real life experience.
Your real life experience seems to come from whatever part you lived in, but nowhere else.
England is a big country.

Your right it is a big country, but your experience seems to be of the Irish community in England, so not exactly the same thing.

RobMc59 · 12-04-2021 6:30pm

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

I think an interesting question would be the roles reversed. Do English people feel like Ireland (as a whole) is a foreign country?

When the North erupted in 69/70 ministers & officials in the Wilson government admitted they had no clue about Ireland, Irish culture or Irish politics, and when the Heath government came to power in July 1970 it was very much the same attitude.

The biggest mistake the Wilson government made was sending troops to Ireland & leaving the Unionists in charge of them. And then when Labour came back to power in 74, during the UWC Strike he made the infamous "Spongers" speech, which to be fair he wasn't wrong, Unionists do sponge of the British state.

I live in England and have been coming to Ireland since the early 80`s.I think It`s a wonderful place and it would be very easy to live there.Both countries are so similar,shops,way of life etc.

12-04-2021 6:31pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

Your right it is a big country, but your experience seems to be of the Irish community in England, so not exactly the same thing.

What?
I lived there, I went to school there, with kids from many different cultures, I have family over there, English family.
I'm not sure why you think I only know Irish people?

Jim2007 · 12-04-2021 6:31pm

begbysback wrote: »

We drink their tea, speak their language and support their football teams, other than the accents it may as well be home.

Try doing business with a Rupert and you’ll discover just how different they are.

Tombo2001 · 12-04-2021 6:48pm

kildare lad wrote: »

Depend what part , I've been to England and good few times and the only real difference is the accents , although while visiting a relative in birmingham I felt I was in India .

Sure didnt they used to say the same about Kilburn and the Irish......

whisky_galore · 12-04-2021 6:52pm

Another ruminating over England thread. Never had one of those before.

12-04-2021 7:15pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

Try doing business with a Rupert and you’ll discover just how different they are.

What is a Rupert?

12-04-2021 7:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What is a Rupert?

a bear that wears tartan?

Feisar · 12-04-2021 7:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What is a Rupert?

It's slang for an officer in the British Army but in this context I presume it means an English person.

Yyhhuuu · 12-04-2021 7:48pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Balderdash and bunkum! You have no idea. And many villages and towns now are deserted.

Just takes a little longer to get to know a city in England. But it is worth it. It really is.

I was once told only the wealthy lived in the villages and towns in England. Perhaps the person who told me this was watching too much Midsummer Murder

Running Balance · 12-04-2021 7:54pm

Maybe already mentioned but I think it might be dependent on what area of england you are in.

I could be wrong but I guess east Anglia has few irish whereas liverpool where I live is stacked full of us and therefore the locals are more akin to our ways!!

Anyone that says english people have no clue about ireland is fair but they also have no clue about england half them.. If you were to ask any of them to name the counties of england..... well think Joey in friends naming the US states

Mollydog123 · 12-04-2021 8:00pm

I walked a lot of the national trails in the North of the UK and found the people to be very friendly. The main differences I noticed was the size of the fields, they were huge and as a result much less hedgerows and birds. Also the right to roam, some of the trails went through peoples front gardens and farmers fields and yards. Always found the farmers to be friendly. Couldn't imagine walking across some farmers yard in Ireland.

Church on Tuesday · 12-04-2021 8:40pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Ever been to Spain? or know many Spanish people?
A fundamentally socially liberal people with some distant Catholic baggage, most are not more than two generations away from the countryside and abject poverty. They also fundamentally believe their country to be the most corrupt/inefficient etc. and they're more correct in that belief than Irish people are. Very same attitudes to work and family as you see in Ireland.

I would say more similar to Irish folks than English (Scotland is a different).

I could, at best, take or leave the Spanish. Found them rude by times.

I have got on much much more with the English like another poster has mentioned.

Wallet Inspector · 12-04-2021 10:43pm

Aegir wrote: »

I am curious to know where in Ireland I find this wonderful place where the people don't look down on others, the streets are full of beautifully maintained architecture and there is an abundance of good value high quality food.

15 years living here and i have yet to find it.

Those comments all came from different people.

Mine was the food bit - Cork. Loads upon loads of great restaurants and cafes. Just because I said one thing doesn't mean I'm having a go at England, which has miles better music and TV.

Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

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