Poppy

Mookie Blaylock · 08-11-2018 4:56pm

I have gotten poppies for both my daughter and myself and she will be in aice liom, domhnach / Sunday when we attend the grave of her great grand uncle who gave his life trying to save Jewish families in Belgium in 1944.

At dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis

zapitastas · 08-11-2018 5:54pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

None of those who DIED in WW1 returned, those are the ones that REMEMBERANCE is about.

This is quite easy. Most of the British soldiers that carried out attroticies here had cut their teeth in WWW1. The poppy is used in rememberance of those same soldiers. It is an unacceptable symbol of British colonialism. There are other symbols available that don't carry the same connotations

Spook_ie · 08-11-2018 7:43pm

That is as you think, however, please remember that there are people who had relatives die in the trenches and at sea etc. it would be nice if just for a few minutes of Sunday you could put your animosity to one side and allow them to remember the sacrifices made so that people can express their views, even yours, without fear of punishment.

johnp001 · 08-11-2018 7:50pm

This is the best thing I have read on the subject...

I don’t wear poppies, and this image perfectly encapsulates why

The Royal British Legion tweeted this image of a fundraising event. Look at it.

In the image, four children aged around twelve stand, holding gigantic plastic poppies. Three of the children wear t-shirts saying “Future Soldier”.

The poppy was once a symbol to remind us of the senseless massacre of millions upon millions of people in muddy fields far away from home. The poppy was supposed to say never again to the horrors of a spat between politicians murdering a generation. What it is now is a symbol of militarism, and standard used to recruit children to don a uniform and go off and get themselves killed. It means the opposite of what it is supposed to.

I admit I’d stopped wearing the red poppy about six or seven years ago. I am not sure if it was because my eyes opened to what it symbolises these days, or whether it was because the poppy itself had become twisted into a mark of jingoism. The trend certainly seems to have grown stronger in recent years.

Policing of wearing the poppy has grown absurd: public figures face attacks, all the way up to death threats, for not wearing one. There are ****ing poppies all over everything, from buses, to a big ****off wearable poppy costume. GCHQ are taking a break from peeking at our internets and turning themselves into a humongous poppy, and looking a lot like budget Doctor Who villains in the process.

Meanwhile, opinion pieces glorifying the deaths in the First World War seem to be on the rise, with pundits and politicians alike acting as though it was anything other than a meaningless mass killing that ****ed up the world for generations.

And now it all becomes clearer than ever. They want us to forget what happened and pretend–as they did a hundred years ago–as though wars are nothing more than a jolly good lark. They brainwash children: not to mourn, but to strive to emulate. I cannot stop looking at that picture. It makes my gorge rise. These are children, and yet in a few years’ time, if they follow the naive dream they are being steered towards, we could be seeing them shipped back in coffins.

Instead of the symbols, the reminders, we should focus on actually remembering. On remembering, one sees the brutal senselessness of this slaughter. With a symbol, it is all too easy to simply radicalise children into militarism.

I don’t really know how to finish them, so we’ll end with Wilfred Owen, who saw this coming almost a century ago.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

If there’s an afterlife, I imagine Owen is very, very angry right now.
More...

Spanish Eyes · 08-11-2018 7:51pm

For those who might be in any way interested, and I am just putting it out there, no connections at all...

The Quakers are having a White Poppy ceremony on Armistice Day where anyone can help place white poppies in Merrion Square in honour of those who died.

Given the Quakers pacifist credentials, it sounds like a good event to me, and I will be there.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/white-poppy-ceremony-at-dublin-s-merrion-square-to-mark-armistice-day-1.3686968

ohnonotgmail · 08-11-2018 7:54pm

murpho999 wrote: »

So as I said the poppy is only used by Commonwealth countries so there is no reason for people to wear it at all.

The Poppy is a British and Commonwealth symbol.

and my relatives died fighting as british soldiers so i do have a reason. get used to it.

Spleerbun · 08-11-2018 8:01pm

This will probably come across as a bit disrespectful to some, but how many generations do ye think we are away from people not caring about this ****? Every year the same back and forth on and on

Spanish Eyes · 08-11-2018 8:31pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

This will probably come across as a bit disrespectful to some, but how many generations do ye think we are away from people not caring about this ****? Every year the same back and forth on and on

Bit like the famine here I suppose, will always crop up but with no specific date.

I have often wondered why those who died in WW2 do not have a specific remembrance date like 11.11

And yet their comrades liberated the concentrations camps and so on. And so much more too.

weldoninhio · 08-11-2018 11:16pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and my relatives died fighting as british soldiers so i do have a reason. get used to it.

Fighting as British soldiers to help Britain keep its empire. Not worth remembering as Irish. Ireland was one of the countries that Britain were occupying!! There was no big evil in WW1, like Hitler in WW2.

Folkstonian · 08-11-2018 11:20pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Fighting as British soldiers to help Britain keep its empire. Not worth remembering as Irish. Ireland was one of the countries that Britain were occupying!! There was no big evil in WW1, like Hitler in WW2.

Who the hell are you to be telling other people what is and isn’t worth remembering to them? Such breathtaking arrogance.

ohnonotgmail · 08-11-2018 11:22pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Fighting as British soldiers to help Britain keep its empire. Not worth remembering as . was one of the countries that Britain were occupying!! There was no big evil in WW1, like Hitler in WW2.

I refer you to my last reply to you

08-11-2018 11:23pm

If you agree with the aims of the British Empire for which those Irish-born British soldiers died, commemorate to your heart's content. There's at least an integrity of sorts in that consistency.

However, trying to claim you're not honouring them for their role in that imperialist project, while wearing the poppy symbols of the British Empire/Commonwealth/Legion and accepting the entire "We saved the world" "We fought for the rights of small nations" "We civilised the world" propaganda that justifies these opportunists is either very naive of you, or reflects a very poor perception of our gullibility.

It's a genuinely "personal commemoration" when you do it privately away from all the British symbols and politics. If I had, say, a great uncle who died in the service of the British Empire and I felt the need to commemorate this person whom I never knew (How much time do these commemorators have?), I certainly wouldn't be falling into having his death contextualised within the symbolic trappings of British imperialism/modern British nationalism. There wouldn't be a Union Jack, the flag that symbolises the British subjugation of the Irish people since 1800, in sight of any personal commemoration I might choose to make for that Irish-born British soldier whom I never knew. No "Royal" anything, none of the very royalist cult which kept my people faoi chois century after century. Commemorate their British heroes, at the expense of ignoring the far, far greater number of Irish victims of the British? Even for the most rabid British jingoist, that expectation is something else. There's a reason why the contribution of Irish volunteers to WWI is far, far less than the British contribution: even in 1914 enough of us remained conscious of our own tradition, our own nationhood, our own history. "We serve neither king nor kaiser but Ireland."

Claiming you're making a "personal" commemoration when all the explicitly and implicitly political myths and symbols of the British imperialist version of history abound at the commemoration is really risible stuff. You're part of the cult for as long as you go along with it and all its denials about the victims of British colonial subjugation from Bengal to Belfast, Kenya to Killarney. It's an extraordinary degree of doublethink to claim you're being "apolitical" when you're just trying to make excuses for people who contributed to the thuggery of the British across the planet, simply because those people are related to you. (and, let's face it, unless you support the aims of British colonialism you're probably an attention-seeking volatile person if you're commemorating somebody who fought for it that you never, ever knew)

ohnonotgmail · 08-11-2018 11:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you agree with the aims of the British Empire for which those -born British soldiers died, commemorate to your heart's content. There's at least an integrity of sorts in that consistency.

However, trying to claim you're not honouring them for their role in that imperialist project, while wearing the poppy symbols of the British Empire/Commonwealth/Legion and accepting the entire "We saved the world" "We fought for the rights of small nations" "We civilised the world" propaganda that justifies these opportunists is either very naive of you, or reflects a very poor perception of our gullibility.

It's a genuinely "personal commemoration" when you do it privately away from all the British symbols and politics. If I had, say, a great uncle who died in the service of the British Empire and I felt the need to commemorate this person whom I never knew (How much time do these commemorators have?), I certainly wouldn't be falling into having his death contextualised within the symbolic trappings of British imperialism/modern British nationalism. There wouldn't be a Union Jack, the flag that symbolises the British subjugation of the people since 1800, in sight of any personal commemoration I might choose to make for that -born British soldier whom I never knew. No "Royal" anything, none of the very royalist cult which kept my people faoi chois century after century. Commemorate their British heroes, at the expense of ignoring the far, far greater number of victims of the British? Even for the most rabid British jingoist, that expectation is something else. There's a reason why the contribution of volunteers to WWI is far, far less than the British contribution: even in 1914 enough of us remained conscious of our own tradition, our own nationhood, our own history. "We serve neither king nor kaiser but ."

Claiming you're making a "personal" commemoration when all the explicitly and implicitly political myths and symbols of the British imperialist version of history abound at the commemoration is really risible stuff. You're part of the cult for as long as you go along with it and all its denials about the victims of British colonial subjugation from Bengal to Belfast, Kenya to Killarney. It's an extraordinary degree of doublethink to claim you're being "apolitical" when you're just trying to make excuses for people who contributed to the thuggery of the British across the planet, simply because those people are related to you. (and, let's face it, unless you support the aims of British colonialism you're probably an attention-seeking volatile person if you're commemorating somebody who fought for it that you never, ever knew)

Beats honoring car bombers i suppose.

08-11-2018 11:27pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Fighting as British soldiers to help Britain keep its empire. Not worth remembering as Irish. Ireland was one of the countries that Britain were occupying!! There was no big evil in WW1, like Hitler in WW2.

Remember Ireland was part of the United Kingdom at the time of the First World War. So Irish fighting under the British were fighting under the ruler at the time.

08-11-2018 11:29pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Beats honoring car bombers i suppose.

That's about the intellectual level I'd expect from an apologist for the thugs of the British Empire.

Spanish Eyes · 08-11-2018 11:29pm

Kevin Myers brought all this to the surface. He made it known that Irish men fought in WW1 and they should be remembered for that.

We should also remember that those Irish who fought in WW1 were actually British at that time. And they probably saw joining the Army as a way to send some money home. But most of them died in battle anyway.

ohnonotgmail · 08-11-2018 11:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That's about the intellectual level I'd expect from an apologist for the thugs of the British Empire.

It is certainly about the intellectual level of reply that your post deserved. You have no interest in an intelligent discussion. You just want to soapbox.

08-11-2018 11:33pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

Who the hell are you to be telling other people what is and isn’t worth remembering to them? Such breathtaking arrogance.

Which is hilariously ironic when all the "poppy fascists" (really poppy imperialists but "fascism" gets a harder press in your country because, well, it was done by other countries in contrast to the "good" imperialists) who are ensuring that everybody on British television, and even soccer players, must wear the poppy symbol of British warmongering?

I look forward to you all commemorating the victims of your British Empire with as much gusto next year. Pigs will fly.

RandomName2 · 08-11-2018 11:33pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm sorry Britain, you didn't have a "glorious empire" - you raped and plundered half the world. Your history isn't anything to be proud of, quite the opposite in fact. The world doesn't look up to you with awe and respect - you are in fact a right shower of cúnts!

Britain raped and pillaged France and Belgium in 1914? Right, okay, that's a low blow, it's not like we were talking about WW1 or anything.

But if we are talking about WW1, do the Irish who fought and died in France deserve to be remembered? WW1. France. Just want to focus your attention here.

08-11-2018 11:37pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is certainly about the intellectual level of reply that your post deserved. You have no interest in an intelligent discussion. You just want to soapbox.

That's rich coming from a guy who is repeatedly unable to rationally defend commemorating somebody who fought for the British Empire, and indeed is willing to commemorate them even though he has never met them. Bizarre. Nothing rational there at all, unless you agree with the cause of British imperialism that they fought to defend.

ohnonotgmail · 08-11-2018 11:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That's rich coming from a guy who is repeatedly unable to rationally defend commemorating somebody who fought for the British Empire, and indeed is willing to commemorate them even though he has never met them. Bizarre. Nothing rational there at all, unless you agree with the cause of British imperialism that they fought to defend.

there you go inventing narratives and soapboxing again.

08-11-2018 11:40pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Britain raped and pillaged France and Belgium in 1914? Right, okay, that's a low blow, it's not like we were talking about WW1 or anything.

But if we are talking about WW1, do the Irish who fought and died in France deserve to be remembered? WW1. France. Just want to focus your attention here.

How about you and the rest of the apologists for the British Empire start commemorating the far, far, far greater number of Irish victims of the British Empire in history, and come back to us with this request to honour some of your footsoldiers?

Eh. Em. Er.

08-11-2018 11:42pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there you go inventing narratives and soapboxing again.

Well, people can look back and see your inability to rationally justify your position.

Spanish Eyes · 08-11-2018 11:42pm

Has anyone visited the Military Cemetery on Blackhorse Avenue in Dublin?

Just wondered. I did and it is very interesting. Look it up, presume you can all google!

A bit hidden away though.

RandomName2 · 08-11-2018 11:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That's rich coming from a guy who is repeatedly unable to rationally defend commemorating somebody who fought for the British Empire, and indeed is willing to commemorate them even though he has never met them. Bizarre. Nothing rational there at all, unless you agree with the cause of British imperialism that they fought to defend.

You don't think the Irish people who dies in WW1 deserve to be remembered.. or how was it you dismissively put it.. my 'footsoldiers'.. because you have an obsession with an empire that no longer exists. Not that any of the empires that fought in WW1 still exist. But that's your prerogative. The dead won't hear you, either way.

Folkstonian · 08-11-2018 11:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is hilariously ironic when all the "poppy fascists" (really poppy imperialists but "fascism" gets a harder press in your country because, well, it was done by other countries in contrast to the "good" imperialists) who are ensuring that everybody on British television, and even soccer players, must wear the poppy symbol of British warmongering?

I look forward to you all commemorating the victims of your British Empire with as much gusto next year. Pigs will fly.

I was replying to another poster, not you. Seethe away to yourself.

ohnonotgmail · 08-11-2018 11:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, people can look back and see your inability to rationally justify your position.

Who do i have to justify it to? To you? back on your soapbox.

08-11-2018 11:44pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Has anyone visited the Military Cemetery on Blackhorse Avenue in Dublin?

Just wondered. I did and it is very interesting. Look it up, presume you can all google!

A bit hidden away though.

It's just down the round from my house in Dublin, people still get buried there.
It's an interesting place.

Spanish Eyes · 08-11-2018 11:48pm

Why all the hissy fits.

I cannot understand those who do not understand that history is history and there is nothing we can do about it now, other than repeating it.

08-11-2018 11:57pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Kevin Myers brought all this to the surface. He made it known that Irish men fought in WW1 and they should be remembered for that.

.

Why? Time for a blitz on every bóthairín, sráidbhaile and baile in Ireland to commemorate all the victims of the very same British Empire that Myers glorified ad nauseam (while, in true Jekyll and Hyde form, feigning moral superiority by condemning violence when it was carried out for political aims with which he disagreed, especially by the native Irish forces of resistance in the last remnant of the British Empire in Ireland). We could smother this island in commemorations to the native Irish victims of British imperialism if we started. Why, pray tell, do you think Irish-born people who fought for something as morally reprehensible as imperialism deserve commemoration? Just because it was the British Empire? Bingo.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We should also remember that those Irish who fought in WW1 were actually British at that time. And they probably saw joining the Army as a way to send some money home. But most of them died in battle anyway.

Great, so you want Irish people in 2018 to commemorate British people in 1914 who joined the army of the empire occupying Ireland because they needed the money? Can you extend this generous attitude to every other person in history who joined something supremacist/ignoble because they needed money? Or is this a special "understanding" only reserved for people who used violence for the political aims of the British Empire?

riffmongous · 08-11-2018 11:58pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Why all the hissy fits.

I cannot understand those who do not understand that history is history and there is nothing we can do about it now, other than repeating it.

A certain amount of the current poppy fervor is all about repeating those mistakes, no matter how much people want to deny it, it is intrinsically linked to the current british armed forces and policy

09-11-2018 12:06am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I cannot understand those who do not understand that history is history and there is nothing we can do about it now, other than repeating it.

How wonderfully naive. If "history is history" can we have all these rabid poppy pushers pushing all the, em, less savoury parts of that history - it's not like they'd have to look far. "History" really isn't history at all, is it.

RandomName2 · 09-11-2018 12:09am

Deleted User wrote: »

feigning moral superiority by condemning violence when it was carried out for political aims

Love the way you slide that in there! Now, if there was a little less spittle on your screen, you could carry off the conscientious objector role you've assigned yourself.

But your selective sympathy is really quite apparent.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why, pray tell, do you think Irish-born people who fought for something as morally reprehensible as imperialism deserve commemoration? Just because it was the British Empire? Bingo.

Ah yes. The corollary is true as well. You're positively delighted that 40 thousand Irish died in the Great War. They deserved it because they were fighting for Imperialism. I imagine you think the same of the Russians, Germans, Austrians, Ottomans, oh you must particularly weep with joy for dead Dutchmen, Belgium, Italy, and so on. All empires, all with large armies of soldiers, all fighting for that imperialism.

In fact I don't know why you don't embrace the opportunity Fuaranach! So many people dead, all dead for their support of imperialism. And we all know there is nothing worse than an imperialist, right? You have much to celebrate there.

09-11-2018 12:13am

RandomName2 wrote: »

because you have an obsession with an empire that no longer exists. Not that any of the empires that fought in WW1 still exist. But that's your prerogative. The dead won't hear you, either way.

Hmm. And, just for clarity, all this poppy stuff is an "obsession with commemorating the footsoldiers of an empire that no longer exists"? Or, is being obsessed with the past only acceptable when one is commemorating British soldiers from that past? Or, are the cynics correct and the poppy commemorations are really about using a distorted representation of British history to justify current British nationalist sentiment?

Spanish Eyes · 09-11-2018 12:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

How wonderfully naive. If "history is history" can we have all these rabid poppy pushers pushing all the, em, less savoury parts of that history - it's not like they'd have to look far. "History" really isn't history at all, is it.

Whatever you think is right from your POV. I have no issue apart from remembering our dead. About time they were remembered too.

ToddyDoody · 09-11-2018 12:16am

Growing up I remember blue poppies, orange poppies and then the bigger red poppies that'd bloom in the garden every Summer. Leaves would fall off in Autumn and there'd be a stump left, a kind of bulb was present in Winter.

Anything else I wouldn't know about.

09-11-2018 12:30am

RandomName2 wrote: »

Ah yes. The corollary is true as well. You're positively delighted that 40 thousand Irish died in the Great War.

Why are 40,000 Irish dying for the British Empire more worthy of commemoration than 40,000 English dying for the British Empire? A thug is a thug no matter where they come from. I'd side with the English guys in the GPO than the Irish-born British soldiers in your army, so your very English recruiting sergeant attempt at rising my sympathy for "The poor Irish fighting for their country" is hilarious. I'm firmly, and steadfastly, with the Arthur McBrides of Irish history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBGkhPx529g

WWI_Irish_recruiting_poster_LOC_cph.3g10979.jpg

RandomName2 wrote: »

They deserved it because they were fighting for Imperialism. I imagine you think the same of the Russians, Germans, Austrians, Ottomans, oh you must particularly weep with joy for dead Dutchmen, Belgium, Italy, and so on. All empires, all with large armies of soldiers, all fighting for that imperialism.

If the Russians, etc were continuing to occupy part of my country, I'm sure I'd develop the requisite response to that. As they're not, and as this indeed is not a thread seeking sympathy for the footsoldiers of the Russian Empire,... (this shouldn't be rocket science, but it seems to be)

joe40 · 09-11-2018 12:31am

Did any Irishmen fight for the germans in ww1 should they be remembered. What about Irishmen who fought for American army, where do we draw the line.
Fight for a foreign country if you want, your choice, but why remeberance in this country.

The Rape of Lucretia · 09-11-2018 12:35am

bubblypop wrote: »

Remember Ireland was part of the United Kingdom at the time of the First World War. So Irish fighting under the British were fighting under the ruler at the time.

And being their descendants, in a way, we are all British. Commemorating our history of when we were indeed British is entirely valid and laudable. History did not start in 1922.

RandomName2 · 09-11-2018 12:36am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Whatever you think is right from your POV. I have no issue apart from remembering our dead. About time they were remembered too.

As thugs, according to balanced judgement of Fuaranach.

09-11-2018 12:45am

RandomName2 wrote: »

As thugs, according to balanced judgement of Fuaranach.

The real question is, can a worldview that brings us the concept of "the good imperialists worthy of commemoration" also bring us the concept of "the good fascists worthy of commemoration"?

If not, why not?

09-11-2018 12:45am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

And being their descendants, in a way, we are all British. Commemorating our history of when we were indeed British is entirely valid and laudable. History did not start in 1922.

Oh, Jesus. My head.

droidman123 · 09-11-2018 12:47am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Kevin Myers brought all this to the surface. He made it known that Irish men fought in WW1 and they should be remembered for that.

We should also remember that those Irish who fought in WW1 were actually British at that time. And they probably saw joining the Army as a way to send some money home. But most of them died in battle anyway.

They were british at that time?so when germany invaded poland the polish people automatically became german!when france invaded germany,the germans became french? When the japenese invaded china,the chinese became japenese? Etc etc etc

Folkstonian · 09-11-2018 12:50am

riffmongous wrote: »

A certain amount of the current poppy fervor is all about repeating those mistakes, no matter how much people want to deny it, it is intrinsically linked to the current british armed forces and policy

What is so terrible about showing acknowledgement and gratitude for soldiers serving now or in recent conflicts? Do you support the work of the Irish defence forces in peacekeeping roles? Nobody tries to deny who the RBL poppy appeal supports btw, it’s on their website.

RandomName2 · 09-11-2018 1:00am

Deleted User wrote: »

The real question is, can a worldview that brings us the concept of "the good imperialists worthy of commemoration" also bring us the concept of "the good fascists worthy of commemoration"?

If not, why not?

Oh but you would, presumably, be open to the idea of 'the good fascists worthy of commemoration'. The enemy of my enemy, after all?

Your analysis is so all over the place I don't know where to start. There wasn't any such thing as fascism in 1914. I suspect you are talking about a different period, and a different country, under a different government, with a different war, with different people involved, and you ask ironically: why don't we celebrate the fascists, if we are going to honor the dead of WW1. Never mind you conflate everybody who fought under fascism as fighting for fascism.

Not only a narrow field of view, not only a poor judge of distance, but seeing everything in monochrome too.

joe40 · 09-11-2018 1:00am

I don't have a problem with people choosing to wear the poppy, but I really object to the pressure to wear one in the UK. The James McClean issue been case in point.
In is now at the stage where a German player in the premiership would probably be expected to wear a poppy.
That would actually be quite funny

FrancieBrady · 09-11-2018 1:07am

Folkstonian wrote: »

What is so terrible about showing acknowledgement and gratitude for soldiers serving now or in recent conflicts?

It is simply deplorable that an Irish person would want to do that. The RBL has no discrimination against who it supports. It is an adjunct to the continuing British war machine.

We should be raging against this machine. Not pandering to it.

Folkstonian · 09-11-2018 1:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are 40,000 Irish dying for the British Empire more worthy of commemoration than 40,000 English dying for the British Empire? A thug is a thug no matter where they come from. I'd side with the English guys in the GPO than the Irish-born British soldiers in your army, so your very English recruiting sergeant attempt at rising my sympathy for "The poor Irish fighting for their country" is hilarious. I'm firmly, and steadfastly, with the Arthur McBrides of Irish history

If the Russians, etc were continuing to occupy part of my country, I'm sure I'd develop the requisite response to that. As they're not, and as this indeed is not a thread seeking sympathy for the footsoldiers of the Russian Empire,... (this shouldn't be rocket science, but it seems to be)

You come across as such a rather troubled person, with each of your beautifully constructive missives absolutely bristling with anger.

You now appear to have labelled each and every man who served in the British expeditionary forces in four devastating years of war as a ‘thug’.

So many millions of human stories of heroism, sacrifice, terrible loss, skill, endurance, humour, bravery, misery, boredom, excitement fear, ingenuity, etc, but you can do no more than to label all those men as ‘thugs’.

Now, I’m not sure if the red mist that clouds your vision is so thick that you truly believe that, or you are using such language in a callous, viscous fashion for the shock factor so as to draw out an angry response that you would surely see as a moral victory.

Either way, it’s far from subtle, and my personal opinion is you couldn’t be more wrong, or more ignorant, although honestly I think somebody as clearly obsessive as you are deserves only pity.

Enjoy bickering away in the thread for evermore, but I’ll be ignoring you. Others should do the same.

riffmongous · 09-11-2018 2:32am

Folkstonian wrote: »

What is so terrible about showing acknowledgement and gratitude for soldiers serving now or in recent conflicts? Do you support the work of the Irish defence forces in peacekeeping roles? Nobody tries to deny who the RBL poppy appeal supports btw, it’s on their website.

How many of the Bloody Sunday killers have been brought to justice, to start with the very lowest hanging fruit?

There are plenty here who will deny it unfortunately

Spook_ie · 09-11-2018 4:14am

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? Time for a blitz on every bóthairín, sráidbhaile and baile in Ireland to commemorate all the victims of the very same British Empire that Myers glorified ad nauseam (while, in true Jekyll and Hyde form, feigning moral superiority by condemning violence when it was carried out for political aims with which he disagreed, especially by the native Irish forces of resistance in the last remnant of the British Empire in Ireland). We could smother this island in commemorations to the native Irish victims of British imperialism if we started. Why, pray tell, do you think Irish-born people who fought for something as morally reprehensible as imperialism deserve commemoration? Just because it was the British Empire? Bingo.

Great, so you want Irish people in 2018 to commemorate British people in 1914 who joined the army of the empire occupying Ireland because they needed the money? Can you extend this generous attitude to every other person in history who joined something supremacist/ignoble because they needed money? Or is this a special "understanding" only reserved for people who used violence for the political aims of the British Empire?

No I think most people would like to recognise and remember the centenary of the 1918 Armistice, whether you want to wear a poppy or not, you should at least on the 11th hour of the 11th Day of the 11th Month spare a thought for the many who died in the new method of warfare "The Trench" many of them still in the fields of Europe never brought home to their families but remembered as a name and number on a roll of the dead and missing.

Nobody is asking that you should cry, or beat your chest or Ululate in remorse but just respect the fallen from all nations of the first truly WORLDWIDE conflict, it's so much more than just "Poppyday"

Poppy

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