Bike Park Ireland closed this weekend

Wanderer78 · 04-11-2019 3:48pm

Peter T wrote:

Slightly off topic but I see the bmx track in tramore valley park (cork) has been closed for weeks due to an insurance issue. A cx race due to take part is looking unlikely as CI insurance isnt considered adequate by the council. Yet plenty of cx races happening outside the city on council grounds. I assume the key difference is city council vs county council. Big waste of our money spent on amenities that cant be used.

This is fcuking ridiculous at this stage, the whole country will eventually be shut over this

rizzodun · 04-11-2019 4:35pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This is fcuking ridiculous at this stage, the whole country will eventually be shut over this

I see the insurance issue hasn't made the agenda of the Cycling Ireland AGM.

Wasted opportunity.

prunudo · 04-11-2019 4:49pm

rizzodun wrote: »

I see the insurance issue hasn't made the agenda of the Cycling Ireland AGM.

Wasted opportunity.

Big time, especially as its moving away from just effecting the extreme end and causing issues for more regular and sedate cycling.

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/waterford-greenway-businesses-face-closure-due-to-cycling-insurance/

CramCycle · 04-11-2019 4:50pm

rizzodun wrote: »

I see the insurance issue hasn't made the agenda of the Cycling Ireland AGM.

Wasted opportunity.

Nothing they can do unless someone brings it up, you could still bring it up alongside proposals for the issue in AOB

I suppose bringing it up means nothing unless someone has a workable solution, or the alternative would be that you pass a motion that directs the board or a committee to look into the issue and come up with proposals or solutions

rizzodun · 04-11-2019 5:25pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Nothing they can do unless someone brings it up, you could still bring it up alongside proposals for the issue in AOB

I suppose bringing it up means nothing unless someone has a workable solution, or the alternative would be that you pass a motion that directs the board or a committee to look into the issue and come up with proposals or solutions

Or they simply start lobbying the government to look into solutions. Isn't that why we have elected representatives?

prunudo · 06-11-2019 8:18pm

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/irish-cyclocross-event-cancelled-over-insurance-dispute-fears-for-road-races/

Someone would want to start taking note, insurance companies and organisations afraid of being sued holding every activity based amenity to ransom.

Harrybelafonte · 06-11-2019 8:34pm

prunudo wrote: »

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/irish-cyclocross-event-cancelled-over-insurance-dispute-fears-for-road-races/

Someone would want to start taking note, insurance companies and organisations afraid of being sued holding every activity based amenity to ransom.

But that story makes no sense? They insisted on a form of insurance that didn't exist?

prunudo · 06-11-2019 9:32pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

But that story makes no sense? They insisted on a form of insurance that didn't exist?

Thats what I mean, the council are so afraid of being sued they want insurance cover that doesn't even exist. The government can jump up and down all they want about people being healthy and telling us to get active. Activity based businesses and events will contuine to close or be cancelled until they address both the claims culture and insurance in general.

Harrybelafonte · 06-11-2019 9:38pm

Totally nuts.

CramCycle · 06-11-2019 10:02pm

rizzodun wrote: »

Or they simply start lobbying the government to look into solutions. Isn't that why we have elected representatives?

But they need the push to do it. If there is time, we should bring it up at the AGM under AOB but we need a coherent and reasonable proposal.

Propose a motion that CI will actively lobby local councils and government against such actions. That it will provide assurance that competitors at said events will sign off that they will not hold the council liable (although i am fairly sure we do that anyway for most events). That they will actively lobby the minister for sport to support their proposal.

Local clubs also need to pick a councillor each, and target them for support, have it brought up at meetings, make it clear through every family and friend who can remention the issue that anything that takes away the local community, and childrens, ability to partake in sport, will be met with strong opposition at the ballot box.

Obviously needs more thinking and better wording but I would support it, as would pretty much every club unless I read the mood of the federation wrong.

rizzodun · 07-11-2019 1:14am

CramCycle wrote: »

But they need the push to do it. If there is time, we should bring it up at the AGM under AOB but we need a coherent and reasonable proposal.

Propose a motion that CI will actively lobby local councils and government against such actions. That it will provide assurance that competitors at said events will sign off that they will not hold the council liable (although i am fairly sure we do that anyway for most events). That they will actively lobby the minister for sport to support their proposal.

Local clubs also need to pick a councillor each, and target them for support, have it brought up at meetings, make it clear through every family and friend who can remention the issue that anything that takes away the local community, and childrens, ability to partake in sport, will be met with strong opposition at the ballot box.

Obviously needs more thinking and better wording but I would support it, as would pretty much every club unless I read the mood of the federation wrong.

I sent an enquiry to CI a few days ago detailing the current situation with examples such as above and asked was it too late to bring up at the AGM under AOB.

No reply.

rizzodun · 07-11-2019 1:21am

So I must apologise, this was sent to me today, just seen it come in.

Thanks for your email RE what is indeed a current challenge for the sport.

We’ve a presentation regarding insurance scheduled as part of the AGM. Additionally our broker will be available to take any member queries.

We have engaged with Sport Ireland and the Irish Sports Federation with their joining of the Alliance for Insurance Reform and we are working with them to highlight the issues and lobby for change.

Hope to see you at the AGM.

covey123 · 07-11-2019 9:59am

rizzodun wrote: »

I sent an enquiry to CI a few days ago detailing the current situation with examples such as above and asked was it too late to bring up at the AGM under AOB.

Fair play

covey123 · 07-11-2019 10:05am

Is approaching local TDs about this whole farce the best way of trying to get some kind of resolution to this,its one of the few things that grinds my gears, totally wrong on so many levels.
I mean even the Greenway in Waterford suffering,its an almost perfectly flat stretch of tarmac.......seriously.
Any suggestions on best action to take?

Peter T · 07-11-2019 10:23am

Its worth bringing it up but your local TD will really only be interested in how it affects your constituency. My understanding is that TD's wont respond to non constituents and will show little to no interest in problems outside of the constituency. Use BPI, adventure centers etc as examples to highlight how this has an impact on things in your community. Your local councilors could be a good shout too as they will be dealing with things on a more localized level (And more than likely looking to move up the political ladder so will want to show the offer of support), highlight how this effects future events they might run. No harm in highlighting it among our constituencies to try light a flame and bring a solution.

covey123 · 07-11-2019 11:37am

And play the Maria Bailey card if talking to FG!

CramCycle · 07-11-2019 12:51pm

rizzodun wrote: »

I sent an enquiry to CI a few days ago detailing the current situation with examples such as above and asked was it too late to bring up at the AGM under AOB.

No reply.

AOB is just that as well though, it is for items that people couldn't or didn't get in, in time. I'd certainly have no issue bringing it up if people could give me a few pointers on exactly they want done, and possible ways to go about it.

rizzodun · 08-11-2019 10:51pm

CramCycle wrote: »

AOB is just that as well though, it is for items that people couldn't or didn't get in, in time. I'd certainly have no issue bringing it up if people could give me a few pointers on exactly they want done, and possible ways to go about it.

I've mentioned it a good few times here I think but in my opinion they should look at what is done in NZ and see if it's feasible.

The ACC, or Accident Compensation Corporation, was created in 1974 by the New Zealand government. Its basic purpose is to administer the country's public accident insurance fund. The fund, akin to the U.S. Workers' Compensation program, pays the medical bills of those injured in accidents on New Zealand soil. Kiwi companies pay annually into the fund (which also receives monies from other sources), with premiums based on the risk level inherent to their type of business. The businesses also have to follow certain safety regulations and standards aimed at accident prevention.

The ACC covers both residents and tourists. And fault is never an issue. So if you've tossed back one too many in your motel room, then fall and break your nose, the ACC still pays your medical bills. And if you're injured when your rental bike blows a tire, it doesn't matter whether the rental company provided you with a dangerous set of wheels or if you carelessly sped over a pile of nails — your expenses will be covered. In return for such generosity, you can't sue anyone for negligence. And that provision is key, experts say.

Without the fear of expensive, messy lawsuits, Kiwi tour operators have long been free to create risky, extreme-adventure activities. In other areas of the world, such as Europe, travelers injured in an accident may similarly receive complimentary or inexpensive medical attention as part of the region's universal health care system. But they still typically are free to sue, say, the bungee-jump operator for their injury. Hence, New Zealand is still more more attractive to those providing extreme adventure.

https://adventure.howstuffworks.com/new-zealand-became-home-extreme-sports.htm

prunudo · 19-12-2019 9:28pm

I'd say the leisure industry, particularly the ones that had to close doors are pissed with the governments latest attempt at fixing the insurance issues. Seemingly the hospitality industry is next on the watch list as providers pull out of the market.

€7m crèche bailout will 'line pockets' of insurers

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/7m-creche-bailout-will-line-pockets-of-insurers-38798169.html

Peter T · 19-12-2019 9:31pm

Proper slap in the face

CramCycle · 19-12-2019 9:38pm

How many claims are made against creches per year? I imagine it is less than the amount mentioned. Mount a policy of fighting every claim, and shutting down creches with disproportionate claim numbers and have it backed from the government pocket.

covey123 · 30-01-2020 1:36pm

Still nothing, but thankfully they haven't given up yet

https://m.facebook.com/652672661459110/posts/wow-we-honestly-didnt-think-that-wed-still-be-closed-at-this-stage-as-you-are-al/2839739002752454/

Top Dog · 30-01-2020 9:24pm

Saw that yesterday. I don't know how they're managing to stay positive, but at the same time I'm delighted they are.

Continue hoping that there might be some break-through.

drunkmonkey · 30-01-2020 9:32pm

Is this Alan Kelly Terriority? It's hard to know whet politician to hop off locally about it. Wouldn't be a million miles from Smith but he's not on the ticket.
Failte Ireland or someone like that should really be funding this to stay open.

saccades · 30-01-2020 10:58pm

Have raised it with all the people canvassing at my door, citing the potential risk to employment in Wicklow (my neck of the woods) as this continues.

Few wishy washy replies apart from Laura Whitmore who was keen to introduce a state insurance scheme similar to Australia and was adamant that fundamentally viable businesses shouldn't have to close die to insurance.

Impressed me.

prunudo · 30-01-2020 11:10pm

saccades wrote: »

Have raised it with all the people canvassing at my door, citing the potential risk to employment in Wicklow (my neck of the woods) as this continues.

Few wishy washy replies apart from Laura Whitmore who was keen to introduce a state insurance scheme similar to Australia and was adamant that fundamentally viable businesses shouldn't have to close die to insurance.

Impressed me.

Damn, I had to make do with her sister Jennifer canvassing around here.

iwillhtfu · 30-01-2020 11:18pm

prunudo wrote: »

Damn, I had to make do with her sister Jennifer canvassing around here.

I was thinking, Laura would be getting my vote

saccades · 31-01-2020 9:16pm

Dunno what happened there - I've never heard of the TV version.

Schrodingercat · 03-02-2020 4:05pm

I raised it with Josepha Maddigan. She said her son goes up to the gap regularly and she had been up that day dropping him off. She got a photo op and all.

https://twitter.com/josephamadigan/status/1224242941885067264

She was unaware of the situation.

Her solution was that BPI should ask the gap what they do, and try to do something similar with them (which I am sure they have done and its obviously not that simple). She had a canned answer about perjury being made a criminal offence, and the book Of Quantum‎ needing to be sorted. She then passed me off to her husband, because he commutes into town on a bike each day and she wanted rid of me. Maybe if the Gap have insurance issues her son will lobby her over and over again as only a moody teenage can.

It wasn't too high on her list of priorities.

prunudo · 03-02-2020 4:26pm

^^^^^
That infuriates me so much and just reinforces my opinion that a lot of TD's are detached from the realities of every day life for people no matter what their issue is.
As if the Gap are doing anything different to BPI, every activity based business is one renewal letter away from closure.
And wasn't she involved with the law firm that advised Marie Bailey to sue. Happy enough to grab a corney photo op but doesn't give a sh!t about people who would be effected by insurance hikes :mad:

Top Dog · 05-02-2020 12:34am

Schrodingercat wrote: »

I raised it with Josepha Maddigan. She said her son goes up to the gap regularly and she had been up that day dropping him off. She got a photo op and all.

https://twitter.com/josephamadigan/status/1224242941885067264

She was unaware of the situation.

Beggars belief :eek:

john1697 · 15-12-2020 10:02pm

Obviously with the pandemic this will still be closed but anyone hear any word from Bpi or have they any future plans? Such a shame, was a credit to the owners!

Wanderer78 · 16-12-2020 5:08am

john1697 wrote:

Obviously with the pandemic this will still be closed but anyone hear any word from Bpi or have they any future plans? Such a shame, was a credit to the owners!

Sadly toast I'd say, owners are a lovely family, fair play to them for trying, hope they're not experiencing financial difficulties

iwillhtfu · 16-12-2020 10:17am

john1697 wrote: »

Obviously with the pandemic this will still be closed but anyone hear any word from Bpi or have they any future plans? Such a shame, was a credit to the owners!

I doubt the land has changed much and there's little else that can be done with it so I'd say there's every chance it'll open again subject to the strangle hold the insurance industry has on us being loosened. Brexit will do nothing to loosen that hold though.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Sadly toast I'd say, owners are a lovely family, fair play to them for trying, hope they're not experiencing financial difficulties

They're busy working on the naional MTB centres or at least they were up in the slieveblooms so hopefully that's provided another source of income. It's a shame to see any company struggling particularly a small family company.

I'd say The Gap was close to the bone at one point. I assume by them harvesting the majority of the trees from the park it was scraping the barrel which imo was shame as it's ruined the aesthetic of the park even if they were ****e nordic spruce.

xxyyzz · 16-12-2020 11:02am

Graham was hopeful about opening in the spring. Fingers crossed!

Wanderer78 · 16-12-2020 11:53am

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I doubt the land has changed much and there's little else that can be done with it so I'd say there's every chance it'll open again subject to the strangle hold the insurance industry has on us being loosened. Brexit will do nothing to loosen that hold though.

They're busy working on the naional MTB centres or at least they were up in the slieveblooms so hopefully that's provided another source of income. It's a shame to see any company struggling particularly a small family company.

I'd say The Gap was close to the bone at one point. I assume by them harvesting the majority of the trees from the park it was scraping the barrel which imo was shame as it's ruined the aesthetic of the park even if they were ****e nordic spruce.

nothing stopping them from replanting with natives, id even give them a hand in doing so, and i suspect others would to, im really glad to see some dublin forests being reclaimed with natives

smacl · 16-12-2020 6:16pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I'd say The Gap was close to the bone at one point. I assume by them harvesting the majority of the trees from the park it was scraping the barrel which imo was shame as it's ruined the aesthetic of the park even if they were ****e nordic spruce.

Fingers crossed that their location with proximity to Dublin will keep them going. Been jammers around Ticknock over the last few weeks. Looking forward to getting out to the GAP a few times over the Christmas break, fantastic facility.

iwillhtfu · 16-12-2020 8:12pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

nothing stopping them from replanting with natives, id even give them a hand in doing so, and i suspect others would to, im really glad to see some dublin forests being reclaimed with natives

I'm all for broad leaf forestry but when they do harvest the spruce the place is left looking like a warzone. It was easy to see passed what it was when it incorporates a bike park.

It would be great if they did replant with natives but I'm not sure if the subs are there yet for private land owners.

On another note it's been a while since I've been up there, have they started incorporating some of the land further up the hill into the bike park?

prunudo · 16-12-2020 8:47pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I'd say The Gap was close to the bone at one point. I assume by them harvesting the majority of the trees from the park it was scraping the barrel which imo was shame as it's ruined the aesthetic of the park even if they were ****e nordic spruce.

Passed through last week, couldn't believe the difference in the place and not in a good way.
Red drops/witches cauldron was like a different trail, all the usual reference points gone. Like learning a trail all over again.

To answer your other question. No, the 'upper' trails are still blocked off but they appear to be fairly advanced from what you can see passing by on the fire roads.

Wanderer78 · 17-12-2020 8:08am

iwillhtfu wrote:

I'm all for broad leaf forestry but when they do harvest the spruce the place is left looking like a warzone. It was easy to see passed what it was when it incorporates a bike park.

Yea spruce harvesting is awful, I just hate it, it signifies everything wrong with our attitude to the whole industry, we can't keep raping the plant like this, this approach causes awful hassle with land and water course issues to, then replanting is regularly sat on, leaving, as you said, the place looking like a war soon, Jesus we 're as ignorant as fcuk with some things

gsi300024v · 30-11-2021 5:12pm

Trees are taken up and new ones are planted, its an industry, the spruce trees would have been planted there originally also.

Agreed it looks terrible, I do wonder do we get concerned too much with looks in modern society, the forest was there before the mountain biker.

Bike Park Ireland closed this weekend

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