Changes in the GAA - super thread

blanch152 · 14-07-2019 11:25pm

Tomas O'Se made an interesting point about the Super 8s tonight. Said that the provincial winners should not have to play away. That would mean two home games and one neutral whether they play the other provincial winners.

RoyalCelt · 14-07-2019 11:51pm

blanch152 wrote: »

There are too many people who don't understand the purpose of Game Development. They think it is to enhance the inter-county team, but the reality is that it is used for increasing juvenile participation. Until they accept that, and we can move on to real issues that will help the inter-county game, the discussion is pointless.

Why can't Dublin spend some of their millions funding them? Why do the GAA need to pay 50%? Dublins GAA accounts show they have a big surplus every year so they clearly have the excess funds to do so. The GAA are bent over backwards for the Dubs the past 20 years.

I wouldn't split Dublin in 4 but it will have to be in 2. I also wouldn't split Dublin now while they're creating history. I'd let them do 10 or 11 in a row and see if they can catch Kerry's Sam total. But it will have to happen.

We could have a situation in 100 years where 50% of the population is in Dublin. It's not 1888 anymore. It could take 20 years to normalise North and South Dublin and maybe an AI win for each to get the fans fully behind it but when it becomes tradition it will be the GAA's biggest asset. The biggest Derby in Ireland and it would really capture the imagination of the capital. No more 30k/40k fans turning up for big games.

You'd also like to think North and South Dublin won't continue to steam roll everybody, especially in Leinster because otherwise we're ****ed. I can't see Dublin split more then two working. You'd imagine with Meath and Kildares populations continuing to grow they could compete most years with Dublin North or South.

RoyalCelt · 14-07-2019 11:54pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Tomas O'Se made an interesting point about the Super 8s tonight. Said that the provincial winners should not have to play away. That would mean two home games and one neutral whether they play the other provincial winners.

That's a load of f*cking w*nk. The beauty of the super 8's is every team gets a home and away match. It's a huge reward for the smaller counties to qualify and get a big team to their home town.

I never in my life thought I'd see kerry play meath in navan for a big match. Easy for Dublin or Kerry people to push that selfish idea given they walk their province almost every year.

ArielAtom · 15-07-2019 6:54am

gaffer91 wrote: »

Look there are a few simple steps the GAA can take to revitalise the inter- county game.

1. Split Dublin into four teams

That will never happen, I was discussing this with a Derry player and he stated that beating Dublin South etc would not feel like beating Dublin.

2. Pool sponsorship money centrally and divide fairly among all counties.

So Dublin invest in a commercial manager to maximise their sponsorship potential, but should share it with every county? Communism failed once before.

3. Once Dublin are split, share central funding more fairly among counties rather than just giving the lion's share to the team with multiple other advantages.

Funding does need to be addressed, but in a manner that benefits every county and not just "lets take all funding off Dublin because they are big enough to look after themselves"

Without splitting Dublin, even other steps like reducing the Games Development funds probably wouldn't make as much difference now- the damage has already been done. Dublin would need years of under- funding relative to everyone else for there to be even some hope of equality there.

Forcing Dublin to play away from their home in Croke Park more frequently, while also commendable, probably wouldn't make that much difference given how far ahead they are of everyone else.

I agree Dublin need to build their own stadium and play as other counties do, but will the GAA fund it like they did Cork. Would there be uproar if they did? Vey little debate about cork receiving 50M between GAA and government funding for PUC.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 10:05am

ArielAtom wrote: »

Just a couple of questions for everyone.

1.Would everyone be in agreement that Dublin should build their own stadium?

2. Would you object to the GAA donating the same amount to it, as they did to Corks home ground?

It is a simple yes/no to both questions.

1. Not necessarily no. It is one option.
2. Yes. But I didnt agree with the gaa spending that much on corks ground either

I think a simpler, more pragmatic option, is that dublin play away from home more, and that in big games in the all ireland series, efforts are made to get more people from the other county to the game to make it a bit more neutral an atmosphere. That is the real issue that I see. There are too many true blue dubs making calls in croke park. Things like Dublin getting the best dressing room every time for example. Indeed I recall an all ireland final between mayo and dublin where the half time entertainment was Aslan. The optics are all wrong there. They just need to put a bit of honest effort into making the thing neutral. People will say well it isnt Dublins fault, but it isnt any other teams fault either.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-07-2019 10:14am

blanch152 wrote: »

There are too many people who don't understand the purpose of Game Development. They think it is to enhance the inter-county team, but the reality is that it is used for increasing juvenile participation. Until they accept that, and we can move on to real issues that will help the inter-county game, the discussion is pointless.

Not this again.

Why are Dublin made the exception when it comes to increasing participation? When every other county has issues around competing with other sports?

And before you say, its up to other counties to get their house in order, it would cost the GAA over 40 million annually if the Dublin model was followed in every county.

You are just rehashing points now that have well and truly been shown to be nonsense. You sound very like John Horan.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-07-2019 10:16am

ArielAtom wrote: »

I agree Dublin need to build their own stadium and play as other counties do, but will the GAA fund it like they did Cork. Would there be uproar if they did? Vey little debate about cork receiving 50M between GAA and government funding for PUC.

Croke Park is worth about 500M and is Dublin's home. The GAA got a lot of the money from the Bertie Ahern led government of the day.

We all know what the quid pro quo was. Give a huge increase in funds to Dublin, or else...

Free stadium and huge increase in funding. Dublin did quite well out of that deal.

Its more and more difficult to take the 5 in a row seriously, especially when Dublin supporters play dumb about the advantages they enjoy.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 10:46am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Croke Park is worth about 500M and is Dublin's home. The GAA got a lot of the money from the Bertie Ahern led government of the day.

We all know what the quid pro quo was. Give a huge increase in funds to Dublin, or else...

Free stadium and huge increase in funding. Dublin did quite well out of that deal.

Its more and more difficult to take the 5 in a row seriously, especially when Dublin supporters play dumb about the advantages they enjoy.

This is the thing people forget when they say stuff like 'life isnt fair' or 'there us always a natural order with some teams being stronger'.
There was a natural order, bertie ahern and the gaa changed it. So this stuff about natural order or life not being fair isnt a defence. These things can be changed and have been already.

Similarly this is why dublins 5 in a row is and forever will be, viewed with an asterisk. Some people dont like that but they dont have to - it's just the way it is. It will be a plastic 5 in a row.

Fann Linn · 15-07-2019 10:47am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

This is the thing people forget when they say stuff like 'life isnt fair' or 'there us always a natural order with some teams being stronger'.
There was a natural order, bertie ahern and the gaa changed it. So this stuff about natural order or life not being fair isnt a defence. These things can be changed and have been already.

Similarly this is why dublins 5 in a row is and forever will be, viewed with an asterisk. Some people dont like that but they dont have to - it's just the way it is. It will be a plastic 5 in a row.

There will be no asterix. History will show winners and losers.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 10:50am

Fann Linn wrote: »

There will be no asterix. History will show winners and losers.

There already is one man. Can you not see that?

blanch152 · 15-07-2019 10:57am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

This is the thing people forget when they say stuff like 'life isnt fair' or 'there us always a natural order with some teams being stronger'.
There was a natural order, bertie ahern and the gaa changed it. So this stuff about natural order or life not being fair isnt a defence. These things can be changed and have been already.

Similarly this is why dublins 5 in a row is and forever will be, viewed with an asterisk. Some people dont like that but they dont have to - it's just the way it is. It will be a plastic 5 in a row.

So it is bitterness, jealousy and sour grapes motivating some people on this issue. All successful teams have had to deal with this over the years.

The Kerry team of the 1970s and 1980s had to deal with accusations of effective full-time professionalism as well, with supporters finding "jobs" for players.

This Dublin team is the GOAT, no question, begrudgers are just that.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 10:59am

blanch152 wrote: »

So it is bitterness, jealousy and sour grapes motivating some people on this issue. All successful teams have had to deal with this over the years.

The Kerry team of the 1970s and 1980s had to deal with accusations of effective full-time professionalism as well, with supporters finding "jobs" for players.

This Dublin team is the GOAT, no question, begrudgers are just that.

Repeating this stuff ad nauseam wont change the truth.

*

Fann Linn · 15-07-2019 11:02am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

There already is one man. Can you not see that?

There will be no asterix highlighting financial doping, Dublin playing in Croker too many times, Hill 16 fans booing free takers or Aslan singing songs at half time or whatever other gripe or whinge ye may have.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 11:31am

Fann Linn wrote: »

There will be no asterix highlighting financial doping, Dublin playing in Croker too many times, Hill 16 fans booing free takers or Aslan singing songs at half time or whatever other gripe or whinge ye may have.

And again I point out to you - it's already there...

I do understand the mentality behind winning the first one or two. You didnt care about how you got there, you were just happy to be there, which is understandable.
But surely now, there must be some dublin gaa people out there that have the advantages nagging at them in the back of their minds. It is only natural that any self respecting sportsperson would be starting to wonder how far they could cycle with the stabilisers off.

ArielAtom · 15-07-2019 11:37am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

1. Not necessarily no. It is one option.
2. Yes. But I didnt agree with the gaa spending that much on corks ground either

I think a simpler, more pragmatic option, is that dublin play away from home more, and that in big games in the all ireland series, efforts are made to get more people from the other county to the game to make it a bit more neutral an atmosphere. That is the real issue that I see. There are too many true blue dubs making calls in croke park. Things like Dublin getting the best dressing room every time for example. Indeed I recall an all ireland final between mayo and dublin where the half time entertainment was Aslan. The optics are all wrong there. They just need to put a bit of honest effort into making the thing neutral. People will say well it isnt Dublins fault, but it isnt any other teams fault either.

I've seen it all now. Aslan at half time are imfluencing the Dublin team. Give me a break FFS. I'ts getting rediculous some of the arguments being put forward. You could add in that if you are not at least a 3rd generation Dub you have to line out for your fathers or mothers county, or that if you don't live in the Dublin postal districts you have to line out for the nearest neighbouring county.

My points were addressing the majot gripe most people have with Dublin, that is the perception of home advantage. That Cork got substancial funding will have a big influence on that as a project.

ArielAtom · 15-07-2019 11:41am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Croke Park is worth about 500M and is Dublin's home. The GAA got a lot of the money from the Bertie Ahern led government of the day.

We all know what the quid pro quo was. Give a huge increase in funds to Dublin, or else...

Free stadium and huge increase in funding. Dublin did quite well out of that deal.

Its more and more difficult to take the 5 in a row seriously, especially when Dublin supporters play dumb about the advantages they enjoy.

Would you listen to yourself. Dublin received far leass than Cork, but Cork have not been successful, they are no threat so get a free pass, it was a capital project is another argument. Well the get Dublin out of Croker will need to be funded ala PUC. Croker belongs to the GAA not Dublin, and is not their home. Check the county board address, it's a big clue, but that does not suit you narrative.

Jaden · 15-07-2019 11:42am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Repeating this stuff ad nauseam wont change the truth.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

And again I point out to you - it's already there...

Even with it pointed out clearly, I wonder if you can see what you did....

Throwing in the "No true Scotsman" fallacy was a nice touch too.

gaffer91 · 15-07-2019 11:43am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

ah dont be ridiculous. Dublin has far more GAA members than nearly every county and much more in population
why? How do you divide the county in 4. If any other county was doing well like this would you be calling for a county to be split.

Christ. As has been pointed out 100 times already- it's not just the fact they're winning, it's the fact they're doing it from a completely advantaged position.

Even if Dublin weren't winning every year the advantages should still be addressed. It's also why the "what about Kilkenny" arguments are garbage.

Also, Dublin's GAA membership is proportionally much smaller than many other counties and only slightly larger than Cork's, a county half its size population wise.

Fann Linn wrote: »

There are some here who would split Dublin into 8 or 12 if they got the chance. Swallowing bile and lemons come to mind.

Gavin's right, ' we have a squad of players who play for their county, parish and community'.

Really the only bitter people are people from Dublin who are annoyed that people rightfully don't respect this financially doped team's achievements.

blanch152 wrote: »

There are too many people who don't understand the purpose of Game Development. They think it is to enhance the inter-county team, but the reality is that it is used for increasing juvenile participation. Until they accept that, and we can move on to real issues that will help the inter-county game, the discussion is pointless.

This has been debunked countless times already. Do you even read the replies?

There is much funding other than games development that is massively skewed towards Dublin. There is no reason Dublin should be unfairly favoured over every other county. Money spent on kids ultimately does end up benefiting the GAA as a whole in a particular county.

There are other reasons more than this as to why it's ridiculous but you seem to have difficulty reading and processing information so I better not overload you.

The "real issue" is that Dublin have unfair advantages that need to be addressed.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Not this again.

Why are Dublin made the exception when it comes to increasing participation? When every other county has issues around competing with other sports?

And before you say, its up to other counties to get their house in order, it would cost the GAA over 40 million annually if the Dublin model was followed in every county.

You are just rehashing points now that have well and truly been shown to be nonsense. You sound very like John Horan.

It's shocking. They just keep churning out the same nonsense over and over again. It's already been addressed so many times.

Fann Linn wrote: »

There will be no asterix. History will show winners and losers.

The Dublin team are basically viewed like Lance Armstrong to non- Dubs, just with financial doping and other things rather than performance enhancing drug use. Great players but zero respect for their achievements. If anything they should be embarrassed they haven't won more All Irelands given how heavily skewed everything is in their favour.

@ArielAtom you need to learn how to format your posts as they're impossible to reply to otherwise.

The Derry player anecdote is absolutely pathetic. Anyway, I was speaking to two Derry players myself who felt that Dublin should be split, so that should put the matter to bed using your logic.

Re the "communism" comparison- get a ****ing grip. This is an amateur sports organisation, not a country.

Glad you see funding needs to be addressed. Dublin will have to be completely underfunded relative to other counties for years to come to make up for their complete overfunding over the last 15 years for there to be even some hope of equality. And the sponsorship money should be shared.

gaffer91 · 15-07-2019 11:46am

You'd honestly swear the way the Dubs are going on that the millions of euro of extra money relative to everyone else (for years too), the population that dwarfs every other county, the endless home advantage makes no difference to results. Yet when people say these things need to be rectified you're immediately on the defensive.

Absolutely laughable.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 11:46am

ArielAtom wrote: »

I've seen it all now. Aslan at half time are imfluencing the Dublin team. Give me a break FFS. I'ts getting rediculous some of the arguments being put forward. You could add in that if you are not at least a 3rd generation Dub you have to line out for your fathers or mothers county, or that if you don't live in the Dublin postal districts you have to line out for the nearest neighbouring county.

My points were addressing the majot gripe most people have with Dublin, that is the perception of home advantage. That Cork got substancial funding will have a big influence on that as a project.

I never said they influenced the team, but most definitely they can rile up the fans and make it more of a home fixture. It is also obviously a decision taken with dublin fans in mind - in the all ireland final. The message is all wrong there, the attitude is all wrong there and the optics are terrible. The same attitude that john horan displays when questioned on dublin topics - 'we' 'us' etc etc.

ArielAtom · 15-07-2019 11:51am

@ArielAtom you need to learn how to format your posts as they're impossible to reply to otherwise.

The Derry player anecdote is absolutely pathetic. Anyway, I was speaking to two Derry players myself who felt that Dublin should be split, so that should put the matter to bed using your logic.

Re the "communism" comparison- get a ****ing grip. This is an amateur sports organisation, not a country.

Glad you see funding needs to be addressed. Dublin will have to be completely underfunded relative to other counties for years to come to make up for their complete overfunding over the last 15 years for there to be even some hope of equality. And the sponsorship money should be shared.[/QUOTE]

Apologies if formatting is upsetting you, trying to reply via a mobile app has it's restrictions. But that is the least of your worries. You really need to understand basic English. The communism comparison is apt as the sharing of all funds secured are to be shared. Your logic on the Derryman is simply childish, but hey thats your way.

I am going to avoid this thread going forward, it was created for a reason and by god is it living up to it. I'll let all you bedgrudgers, asterisk queens and Aslan haters get on with your bitchfest. You should all follow the Brazilian kildare man, be some buzz for ye.

Beechwoodspark · 15-07-2019 11:53am

gaffer91 wrote: »

You'd honestly swear the way the Dubs are going on that the millions of euro of extra money relative to everyone else (for years too), the population that dwarfs every other county, the endless home advantage makes no difference to results. Yet when people say these things need to be rectified you're immediately on the defensive.

Absolutely laughable.

The real dubs fans know well it’s a farce.

Often have had the “talk” with them after a few scoops and they openly admit its gone ridiculous.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 11:55am

Jaden wrote: »

Even with it pointed out clearly, I wonder if you can see what you did....

Throwing in the "No true Scotsman" fallacy was a nice touch too.

It is no good being bitter about it now. In your heart if hearts you must have known that when government handouts started being sought, and when the funding was skewed to such an extent, that any subsequent achievements would be of little value.. That is just common sense. Did you ever believe that people wouldnt realise this and point this out? Would dubs not point this out if the shoe was on the other foot? Of course they would and proper order too.

Fann Linn · 15-07-2019 11:57am

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The real dubs fans know well it’s a farce.

Often have had the “talk” with them after a few scoops and they openly admit its gone ridiculous.

We'll take that as gospel so. You and your mates full of drink.
Sound.

gaffer91 · 15-07-2019 11:59am

ArielAtom wrote: »

Your logic on the Derryman is simply childish, but hey thats your way.

You don't see how you "speaking to a player from Derry" who apparently said that he wouldn't value a win against a split Dublin team as much, and using that as an argument against a split, is absolutely ridiculous?

ArielAtom wrote: »

I am going to avoid this thread going forward, it was created for a reason and by god is it living up to it. I'll let all you bedgrudgers, asterisk queens and Aslan haters get on with your bitchfest. You should all follow the Brazilian kildare man, be some buzz for ye.

Ah we all know you'll be back. With the same tired, debunked arguments too.

gaffer91 · 15-07-2019 12:00pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

We'll take that as gospel so. You and your mates full of drink.
Sound.

Apparently one of them is a Derry player so you can take it to the bank.

Beechwoodspark · 15-07-2019 12:00pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

We'll take that as gospel so. You and your mates full of drink.
Sound.

Blame it on the dubs after a few gargles???

I know it’s taboo among dub gaa ppl to mention it openly ESPECIALLY so regarding Jim G.

He can never admit to it upfront but behind the scenes to other managers he’s admitted grudgingly to the inherent and ludicruous advantages Dublin has.

But then he tries to laugh it off and hope everyone forgets to ask the awkward questions....

Not happening folks.

Fann Linn · 15-07-2019 12:01pm

gaffer91 wrote: »

Apparently one of them is a Derry player so you can take it to the bank.

Name him.

gaffer91 · 15-07-2019 12:02pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Name him.

I was being sarcastic. Making a joke about ArielAtoms previous ridiculous anecdote.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 12:03pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

Apologies if formatting is upsetting you, trying to reply via a mobile app has it's restrictions. But that is the least of your worries. You really need to understand basic English. The communism comparison is apt as the sharing of all funds secured are to be shared. Your logic on the Derryman is simply childish, but hey thats your way.

I am going to avoid this thread going forward, it was created for a reason and by god is it living up to it. I'll let all you bedgrudgers, asterisk queens and Aslan haters get on with your bitchfest. You should all follow the Brazilian kildare man, be some buzz for ye.

Communism?
Would the taxpayer and the rest of the gaa world getting dublin out of the hole they were in not come under this banner also? Selective communism...

TV monies are shared in most sports. American football goes one further with their drafting of players. In a sporting context it is actually just called fair competition. Next you will be saying that teams starting at 0-0 is communism.

Beechwoodspark · 15-07-2019 12:04pm

Why are you acting shocked and appalled and clutching the pearl necklace when ppl state the obvious

Huge amounts of the country have no time nor respect for the Dublin “success” due to the inherent and crazy advantages Dublin has

This is before we get to the financial doping madness.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 12:09pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

We'll take that as gospel so. You and your mates full of drink.
Sound.

Like the derry footballer spiel? Sure if he said it we can dismiss all logic and reason...

ToBeFrank123 · 15-07-2019 12:57pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Why are you acting shocked and appalled and clutching the pearl necklace when ppl state the obvious

Huge amounts of the country have no time nor respect for the Dublin “success” due to the inherent and crazy advantages Dublin has

This is before we get to the financial doping madness.

Absolutely. At least PSG and Celtic play away from home half the time! And don't play the major cup finals on their home ground!

Which makes the GAA football AI probably more farcical than these leagues!

I'm afraid as long as Dublin benefit from the advantages, the bigger and bolder the asterix. And you can't force people to think otherwise. People will and have made up their own minds about it.

Eamon Sweeney had a brilliant article on it in the Sunday Independent yesterday, highlighting for example how Roscommon are the only county who will have to play two games away from home in the Super8s. Some reward for winning Connacht.

blanch152 · 15-07-2019 1:04pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

I've seen it all now. Aslan at half time are imfluencing the Dublin team. Give me a break FFS. I'ts getting rediculous some of the arguments being put forward. You could add in that if you are not at least a 3rd generation Dub you have to line out for your fathers or mothers county, or that if you don't live in the Dublin postal districts you have to line out for the nearest neighbouring county.
.

We could get the Pines Showband to tour again and do a gig when Mayo are playing in Croke Park to give them a helping hand:D

https://www.irish-showbands.com/images/reynolds-p/pines1-rfx.htm

Anyone any other suggestions for half-time acts for Mayo?

It is becoming laughable when people are claiming that Aslan help Dublin win All-Irelands. Next thing, they will be saying that the Dublin season ticket holders get better seats in the Cusack Stand and that is an unfair advantage.

Dublin have real advantages over other teams - Jim Gavin and Stephen Cluxton being the biggest two.

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 1:05pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Absolutely. At least PSG and Celtic play away from home half the time! And don't play the major cup finals on their home ground! Which makes the GAA football AI probably more farcical than these leagues!

I'm afraid as long as Dublin benefit from the advantages, the bigger and bolder the asterix. And you can't force people to think otherwise. They will and have made up their own minds about it.

Agreed. We have long sniggered at the state of scottish football, but our own is actually worse. How the hell have we ended up at that point?

I have often wondered what a neutral observer would say about gaa if it was all put in front of them.

blanch152 · 15-07-2019 1:06pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Eamon Sweeney had a brilliant article on it in the Sunday Independent just gone, highlighting for example how Roscommon are the only county who will have to play two games away from home in the Super8s. Some reward for winning Connacht.

As a Dublin supporter I already supported the answer put forward by Tomas O'Se on this.

blanch152 wrote: »

Tomas O'Se made an interesting point about the Super 8s tonight. Said that the provincial winners should not have to play away. That would mean two home games and one neutral where they play the other provincial winners.

Unfortunately, it just got an abusive response.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

That's a load of f*cking w*nk. The beauty of the super 8's is every team gets a home and away match. It's a huge reward for the smaller counties to qualify and get a big team to their home town.

I never in my life thought I'd see kerry play meath in navan for a big match. Easy for Dublin or Kerry people to push that selfish idea given they walk their province almost every year.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-07-2019 1:16pm

blanch152 wrote: »

As a Dublin supporter I already supported the answer put forward by Tomas O'Se on this.

Unfortunately, it just got an abusive response.

I'm leaning towards RoyalCelts answer to be honest. Its good to bring the game around the country.

There are too many occasion junkies following the GAA who just want to see their team in Croke Park no matter if they get hammered. And the GAA as always chasing the money cater to these people too much. And its now established that a lot of Dublin "fans" couldn't be arsed to show up at Croker for anything less than an AI final.

My view is the Dublin v Roscommon game should be at a neutral venue (Croker is not neutral before some Dub says it is). Its not helpful to Dublin's image among the neutral fans to be playing the vast majority of their games at home.

blinding · 15-07-2019 1:18pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

They'd want to sort Munster out first. 1992 was the last time anyone outside of the big 2 won anything.

All the counties bar Kerry have done Well in the Hurling . The Munster Hurling championship is competitive and signs on it , that it is a Great Competition.

Dr. Bre · 15-07-2019 2:48pm

One thing I would love to see changed is the over usage of Croke Park. In my view have only 4 games in Croke Park in the football championship- Leinster final , both AI semis and obviously AI final. I wouldn’t hve any super 8s at Croker. Leinster semis should be neutral also. Take the FA cup for example- only used for semis and final. It’s not used throughout the whole competition

MayoAreMagic · 15-07-2019 3:57pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

One thing I would love to see changed is the over usage of Croke Park. In my view have only 4 games in Croke Park in the football championship- Leinster final , both AI semis and obviously AI final. I wouldn’t hve any super 8s at Croker. Leinster semis should be neutral also. Take the FA cup for example- only used for semis and final. It’s not used throughout the whole competition

Agreed. Plus town down the country would relish getting occasions like that. They just seem like an annoyance in dublin.
The gaa need to move away from modelling the game on financial gain. They arent exactly living hand to mouth and croke park is paid for.

fly_agaric · 15-07-2019 5:04pm

Have been reading this and am "delurking" to ask a question (or two) as an outsider to the GAA...

Why didn't GAA decide to build main stadium outside Dublin back when they must have been making decisions and plans about redevelopment/expansion in 80s/90s? God knows they get lots of (too much...) support off government and I'm sure could have built a modern 70-80 k seater stadium somewhere else.

There was a sort of Bertie/Dublin evil conspiracy theory about it put forward as a "well known fact" earlier in the thread but I am doubtful without a bit of evidence. Are there any other ideas?

The Lost Sheep · 15-07-2019 5:54pm

gaffer91 wrote: »

Christ. As has been pointed out 100 times already- it's not just the fact they're winning, it's the fact they're doing it from a completely advantaged position.

but Dublin has always had these advantages in terms of numbers, population and they just couldn't do anything with them for years.

Even if Dublin weren't winning every year the advantages should still be addressed. It's also why the "what about Kilkenny" arguments are garbage.

like Dublin having substantially more people living in the county so they get substantially more in development funding....

Also, Dublin's GAA membership is proportionally much smaller than many other counties and only slightly larger than Cork's, a county half its size population wise

well it does have more non nationals proportionally than others who should be targeted by games development officers...

Really the only bitter people are people from Dublin who are annoyed that people rightfully don't respect this financially doped team's achievements.

no. The bitterness is non dubs who refuse to say anything bar this dub team is essentially cheating because of funding issues....
And I'm not a Dub btw.....

There is much funding other than games development that is massively skewed towards Dublin. There is no reason Dublin should be unfairly favoured over every other county. Money spent on kids ultimately does end up benefiting the GAA as a whole in a particular county.

yes kids games development benefits GAA as a whole so this shouldn't be considered a bad thing....

The "real issue" is that Dublin have unfair advantages that need to be addressed.
It's shocking. They just keep churning out the same nonsense over and over again. It's already been addressed so many times.

same can be for those who will only ever criticise and hammer dubs no matter what happens.

The Dublin team are basically viewed like Lance Armstrong to non- Dubs, just with financial doping and other things rather than performance enhancing drug use. Great players but zero respect for their achievements. If anything they should be embarrassed they haven't won more All Irelands given how heavily skewed everything is in their favour.

that is a ridiculous argument and in no way have the dubs cheated in any form and the only embarrassment should be for you for such a terrible argument trying to imply Dublin have cheated others out of titles through misuse.

Glad you see funding needs to be addressed. Dublin will have to be completely underfunded relative to other counties for years to come to make up for their complete overfunding over the last 15 years for there to be even some hope of equality. And the sponsorship money should be shared.

we are talking about elite level sport not bloody under 12s where everything has to be shared. By all means put limits as max counties can receive but not pooling everything to share it simply because some counties cant or haven't managed to do a good job recently.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Why are you acting shocked and appalled and clutching the pearl necklace when ppl state the obvious

Huge amounts of the country have no time nor respect for the Dublin “success” due to the inherent and crazy advantages Dublin has

This is before we get to the financial doping madness.

huge parts of country is a load of rubbish. If that was anywhere near true there would have been boycotts/calls for boycotts which hasn't happened...

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Absolutely. At least PSG and Celtic play away from home half the time! And don't play the major cup finals on their home ground! Which makes the GAA football AI probably more farcical than these leagues!

I'm afraid as long as Dublin benefit from the advantages, the bigger and bolder the asterix. And you can't force people to think otherwise. People will and have made up their own minds about it.

Eamon Sweeney had a brilliant article on it in the Sunday Independent yesterday, highlighting for example how Roscommon are the only county who will have to play two games away from home in the Super8s. Some reward for winning Connacht.

Dublin shouldn't be playing a second game in croke park in super8s. And there wont be an asterix at all

Dr. Bre wrote: »

One thing I would love to see changed is the over usage of Croke Park. In my view have only 4 games in Croke Park in the football championship- Leinster final , both AI semis and obviously AI final. I wouldn’t hve any super 8s at Croker. Leinster semis should be neutral also. Take the FA cup for example- only used for semis and final. It’s not used throughout the whole competition

I wouldn't go that level. Why not use your best stadium unnecessarily. Croke park should be a potential venue for so many more players than the elite who can reach the very top end of competitions

fly_agaric wrote: »

Have been reading this and am "delurking" to ask a question (or two) as an outsider to the GAA...

Why didn't GAA decide to build main stadium outside Dublin back when they must have been making decisions and plans about redevelopment/expansion in 80s/90s? God knows they get lots of (too much...) support off government and I'm sure could have built a modern 70-80 k seater stadium somewhere else.

There was a sort of Bertie/Dublin evil conspiracy theory about it put forward as a "well known fact" earlier in the thread but I am doubtful without a bit of evidence. Are there any other ideas?

money. Makes sense to have national stadium in capital. Where would have been better location for national stadium then?

threeball · 15-07-2019 6:06pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

like Dublin having substantially more people living in the county so they get substantially more in development funding....

well it does have more non nationals proportionally than others who should be targeted by games development officers...

Well maybe they need to have their "strategy" reviewed then as they are failing miserably to get any non nationals into the game. Roscommon, Westmeath and even Leitrim have more non nationals playing for them than the mighty cultural melting pot that is Dublin.

blanch152 · 15-07-2019 6:54pm

threeball wrote: »

Well maybe they need to have their "strategy" reviewed then as they are failing miserably to get any non nationals into the game. Roscommon, Westmeath and even Leitrim have more non nationals playing for them than the mighty cultural melting pot that is Dublin.

Again, the misplaced focus on the inter-county team. There are hundreds of non-nationals playing the game at under-age level. There is a huge challenge in keeping them as they grow older as soccer has a deep pull. However, even though they don't turn out at inter-county, the money spent at GDO level in getting kids to play is money well spent on the kids.

RoyalCelt · 15-07-2019 7:00pm

There's a little bit of hype for Dublin football this year with the chance to make history. Still only getting 30k vs Cork, 45k vs Meath, 30k vs Kildare and 10k vs Louth. You'd imagine Roscommon would be under 30k Dubs and under 10k in Omagh. The semi depends on who they play but I'd guess 40k Dubs will go and again in final the same.

But what happens next year when they are going for the 6? No record to be broken, the hype will be at the lowest point ever for the GAA. They're lucky the hurling is the opposite.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-07-2019 7:04pm

If they don't play to adulthood and if they don't support Dublin or other teams in Croke Park then its money wasted which other counties could do with.

Anytime I've been in Croker when the Dubs are playing you'd struggle to see a non national face.

They just aren't participating at a serious level save on the fringes at underage level.

And throwing more millions at it won't help. There's little or no interest in the non national community in Dublin football.

salmocab · 15-07-2019 7:07pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

If they don't play to adulthood and if they don't support Dublin or other teams in Croke Park then its money wasted which other counties could do with.

Anytime I've been in Croker when the Dubs are playing you'd struggle to see a non national face.

They just aren't participating at a serious level save on the fringes at underage level.

And throwing more millions at it won't help. There's little or no interest in the non national community in Dublin football.

Non national face? Does it have to brown or yellow for you to be satisfied.

gaffer91 · 15-07-2019 7:11pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

but Dublin has always had these advantages in terms of numbers, population and they just couldn't do anything with them for years.

Just because they failed to take full advantage of it for years doesn't mean it wasn't and isn't an advantage. If a team was given 10 extra points in the Premier League every year, but failed to win, would you say they weren't unfairly advantaged?

Anyway, their population is proportionally larger than other counties than in previous decades.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

like Dublin having substantially more people living in the county so they get substantially more in development funding....

But it's not proportional. Relative to either members or population. If you actually bothered to read the thread you would have realised this. It's pointed out every couple of pages.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

well it does have more non nationals proportionally than others who should be targeted by games development officers...

And they've completely failed at getting these people to play the game by all accounts.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

no. The bitterness is non dubs who refuse to say anything bar this dub team is essentially cheating because of funding issues....
And I'm not a Dub btw.....

Really? Then your brown nosing is even more pathetic.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

yes kids games development benefits GAA as a whole so this shouldn't be considered a bad thing....

Why should it disproportionately benefit kids in Dublin relative to every other county.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

same can be for those who will only ever criticise and hammer dubs no matter what happens.

No it couldn't. Our criticisms are grounded in reality and legitimate complaints.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

that is a ridiculous argument and in no way have the dubs cheated in any form and the only embarrassment should be for you for such a terrible argument trying to imply Dublin have cheated others out of titles through misuse.

Jesus Christ. Do you think it's fair that one county has a population cohort multiples of every other one, has access to funds many times more than every other county and plays basically all their games, including all consequential ones at home?

Before you say "well there's competition from other sports in Dublin"- This is true in literally every other county as well.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

we are talking about elite level sport not bloody under 12s where everything has to be shared. By all means put limits as max counties can receive but not pooling everything to share it simply because some counties cant or haven't managed to do a good job recently.

It's an amateur sport and an amateur organisation. The aim should be to benefit all members. The only "elite" team is Dublin anyway, because they have so many advantages over everyone else. Whose fans then get annoyed that we take their victories over actual amateurs with a massive pinch of salt.

Once again, all the garbage you've just spouted has already been addressed many times by other people in the course of this thread. It's often said this thread is just going around in circles- this is the fault of posters like you, who keep churning out the same cliches over and over and over.

Rather than just blindly reposting this tripe again in a slightly different manner, try to actually have a read and process some of the information. When coming up with a "rebuttal", why not use the search function and see if it has already been discussed? I think you'll find the results very illuminating.

Last Stop · 15-07-2019 7:14pm

blinding wrote: »

All the counties bar Kerry have done Well in the Hurling . The Munster Hurling championship is competitive and signs on it , that it is a Great Competition.

Is it really? The Munster champions have gone on to win a solitary 1 AI (Tipp in 2016) in the last 14 years... Leinster champions have won 8 in the same period.

Also both have had the same amount of different winners in the last 10 years (4 each).

There’s also been 4 all Leinster finals since the back door was introduced in 98 and only 1 all Munster one.

ToBeFrank123 · 15-07-2019 7:16pm

If only every county had a Taoiseach like this.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/gaa-football/3191859/bertie-ahern-government-grants-saved-dublin-gaa/

The b0llix took taxpayers money and diverted it to Dublin GAA. As dodgy a deal as he ever did. Dublin had won an AI just 7 years before btw.

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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