HSE No Longer Allowed to Refer to Patients as "Love" or "Dear"

Captain Obvious · 03-12-2018 8:59pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

the old Victorian matrons and ward sisters of back in the day would love all this now , moving away from modern times of using love and dear and pet and starting to address patients by their fist name ... then we will move on to that it will be deemed it is dis-respectful to address patients by their first name and some patients will want the doctors and nurses to address them as Mr / Sir and Mrs or mis , or maa'm or me'lady - then the non-binary patients will all get their knickers in a twist and then ....

And? Would that be such an imposition? If your friend asked you to call him by his middle name instead of his first would you not do it? Who cares what his reason is?

Andy From Sligo · 03-12-2018 9:08pm

but that is what the HSE has proposed to call patients by their first name ... well wouldnt some of those people feel it too forthcoming and prefer that they be addressed sir or madam? - you are never gonna please everyone all of the time!

someone or loads of people must have actually physically complained to the HSE (maybe in writing or whatever) about being called love or dear or something or surely the HSE would not be implementing this now would they?

does it really matter how patients are addressed .. as long as they are getting addressed and treated well? - thats more important than what they want / should be called

Rezident · 03-12-2018 9:10pm

More impersonal and rigid, it's PC BS.

Andy From Sligo · 03-12-2018 9:14pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

And? Would that be such an imposition? If your friend asked you to call him by his middle name instead of his first would you not do it? Who cares what his reason is?

your assuming that the patient can get a chance to say to the doctor / nurse / healthcare worker "excuse me , please dont call me love or dear. I would like to be addressed by my first name or middle name" (or whatever)

but what if the patient hasnt made it clear beforehand or what if they go out to someone in a semiconscious state and the paramedics dont know the first name of the person?

of course if someone wants to be addressed by their first name or sir or madam and has made this clear but the doctor/nurse / healthcare worker and they dont respect this and continue to call them love etc.. then this is not right too

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 03-12-2018 9:32pm

Rezident wrote: »

More impersonal and rigid, it's PC BS.

On the contrary, calling people by their actual name is far more personal.

lertsnim · 03-12-2018 9:35pm

Put a sign on the beds of those who would be put out saying not to talk to them in case they feel patronised and leave everyone else get on with their lives.

Mantis Toboggan · 03-12-2018 9:41pm

HSE is one of the biggest scurges on this country, needs to be done away with asap.

TCM · 03-12-2018 9:41pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote:

HSE is one of the biggest scurges on this country, needs to be done away with asap.

..and replaced by?

Captain Obvious · 03-12-2018 9:43pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

your assuming that the patient can get a chance to say to the doctor / nurse / healthcare worker "excuse me , please dont call me love or dear. I would like to be addressed by my first name or middle name" (or whatever)

but what if the patient hasnt made it clear beforehand or what if they go out to someone in a semiconscious state and the paramedics dont know the first name of the person?

of course if someone wants to be addressed by their first name or sir or madam and has made this clear but the doctor/nurse / healthcare worker and they dont respect this and continue to call them love etc.. then this is not right too

And why is this new protocol so terrible? Start with first name instead of something more familiar and casual. As far as I am aware, there's nothing to say you cannot actually call them "love" if that's what they ask you too. Although since the only source for this story is the Daily Mail we don't have much to go on.

One eyed Jack · 03-12-2018 9:45pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

On the contrary, calling people by their actual name is far more personal.

That’s surely a matter of individual opinion though? I’ll often use terms of endearment with people and never once has there been an objection to me using those terms, because the people I use them with are familiar with the use of these terms and don’t tend to read into it and infer something that isn’t there. I extend them the same courtesy and understanding when they refer to me using terms of endearment.

When I was in hospital a couple of months back, I don’t remember anyone ever calling me by my first name, and the only reason I’m racking my brains trying to think of anyone that did, is because of this thread. I wasn’t overthinking it then, it didn’t even register as a concern. I had other things on my mind besides whether or not the nurse used my name when she was taking a swab for CPE, etc.

The only time that sticks in my memory was the nurse in Crumlin when she was filling out my brothers chart wrote “Eating well, A. Savage”... it took me a minute before it dawned on me that her surname was Savage

matrim · 03-12-2018 10:07pm

The whole thing is based on one line from a 122 page report

https://mobile.twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1069689822833532930

Captain Obvious · 03-12-2018 10:23pm

matrim wrote: »

The whole thing is based on one line from a 122 page report

https://mobile.twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1069689822833532930

Priceless.

That’s it - I called the HSE to clarify earlier and they confirmed they have not banned staff from referring to patients as dear

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 03-12-2018 10:59pm

So, it's a non-story and Newstalk either got it ass-ways or deliberately misled.

.

Cienciano · 03-12-2018 11:57pm

The irony in the reaction on AH is that the "its pc gone mad" brigade that moan about snowflakes getting offended at everything are actually more offended and wound up than anyone.

Anyway, non story judging from matrims post

AllForIt · 04-12-2018 12:15am

Pierce Limited Gown wrote: »

So, it's a non-story and Newstalk either got it ass-ways or deliberately misled.

.

I don't think the general issue is a non-story though.

There has been a huge rise in recent years of complaints about using such terms usually I think to support the idea of an alive and well patriarchy. The thinking goes if you use such terms then that's proof of an ingrained attitude that men feel superior to women. I dunno, I think if I felt superior to women I'd use terms other than luv or petal, like slapper, cow, etc.

andekwarhola · 04-12-2018 12:21am

Taco Chips wrote: »

I am a healthcare professional and I welcome the directive for similar reasons already expressed in the thread.

I always cringe whenever I hear a patient being spoken to with "love" "dear" "darling". It is condescending. Especially when we are talking about a 20/30 something old nurse talking to a 80/90 year old. Language like this perpetuates the unequal power dynamic between care giver and patient. If you consider the psychology of a sick person, by removing their maturity and their right to be respected you are reinforcing in overt ways that the are sick and not that they are recovering.

As already mentioned, patients who are respected and actively participate in their care have better outcomes. Sure this might seem like a small thing but it adds up to a big picture in reshaping modern healthcare relationships. Patients need power and autonomy over their own health and they deserve an equal relationship with their doctors and nurses. I call my patients by their first name out of politeness or whatever they prefer to be referred as. Our conversations are exchanges and we are both there to work to a shared goal. It's a simple initiative and it requires a very mild effort on the part of us healthcare providers in changing our own behaviours.

Needs more Going Forward and Synergy for peak PowerPoint.

Andy From Sligo · 04-12-2018 12:23am

if it all raises out of complaints (i mean I figure someone *has* to have complained to the HSE about the use of the words?) - then would I get burned to say that i think the Mid to old age pensioners must have complained about it or would I be wrong . I cannot really see an aul' fella saying dont call us lads and boys - but i might believe a mid to old age lady might say "dont address me as dear as its patronizing and you are writing me off as old"

limnam · 04-12-2018 12:28am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

#MeToo

If you cannot be arsed remembering my name (which is usually on the chart in front of you), then I don't trust you to remember relevant medical details.

I'd say you'll be "the grumpy cnt in bed 3"

Annasopra · 04-12-2018 1:04am

Omackeral wrote: »

As per Newstalk bulletin this morning, all HSE staff have been banned from using these terms. I don't really give a fiddlers myself but wondering what others think? Do you think it promotes a more professional demeanour? Do you think it strips back a bit of the caring approach and makes it more of an impersonal and rigid experience. Tell me your thoughts pet.

Fake news

https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1069689822833532930?s=19

https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1069691053656150017?s=19

Taco Chips · 04-12-2018 1:12am

So it was all a load of nonsense by FakeNewstalk pushing some Dennis O'Brien agenda that the snow flakes fell for? PC gone mad etc etc

dense · 04-12-2018 1:28am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

#MeToo

If you cannot be arsed remembering my name (which is usually on the chart in front of you), then I don't trust you to remember relevant medical details.

With older people especially, the official

name on the chart is often not even what they're used to being called anymore. I'm thinking of all the Peggys Nancys and Bettys etc that are wincing each time a junior doc sidles up and calls them Margaret, Ann or Elizabeth.

As long as dear, love etc sounds half sincere I wouldn't have a problem.

Andy From Sligo · 04-12-2018 1:56am

Taco Chips wrote: »

So it was all a load of nonsense by FakeNewstalk pushing some Dennis O'Brien agenda that the snow flakes fell for? PC gone mad etc etc

ah no lads come on, dont say after all that it is bloody fake! - my blood pressure has been high all day today from the moment I first heard of it. - so ridiculous that I thought it must be true . I was waiting for a nurse to say love to me and get all angry and report her!

vetinari · 04-12-2018 4:15am

I mentioned this in an earlier post.
Anti PC people are now so predictable that they're being manipulated.
Some media outlets are now actively looking for stories about political correctness.
They know that anti PC crowd will go nuts and drum up a lot of traffic to their site.

Optimalprimerib · 04-12-2018 7:32am

This probably has been said, but the HSE would never be praised as an effectively run organization. Would there not be more pressing matters they should be dealing with? For me it's a bit of a smoke screen so we don't look at how ****ty home help is run for example.

erica74 · 04-12-2018 7:52am

I work in the HSE and think it's absolutely ludicrous that this is what they're worrying about.

Huntergonzo · 04-12-2018 8:40am

erica74 wrote: »

I work in the HSE and think it's absolutely ludicrous that this is what they're worrying about.

Can't really blame the HSE in fairness, the world is gone fúckin PC mad thanks to social justice warriors and the baffling amount of media coverage that's wasted on them parasites.

So what else can you expect, the HSE most likely saw this as a necessary move to save any hassle or even court cases!

matrim · 04-12-2018 9:24am

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Can't really blame the HSE in fairness, the world is gone fúckin PC mad thanks to social justice warriors and the baffling amount of media coverage that's wasted on them parasites.

So what else can you expect, the HSE most likely saw this as a necessary move to save any hassle or even court cases!

Or maybe you can look at the my post from yesterday and realise that instead of "left wing PC snowflakes" this is actually blown out of all proportion by "right wing clickbait scaremongers"

SimonTemplar · 04-12-2018 10:42am

A nurse once ended every sentence to me with 'my lovely' which I hated.

But a blanket ban on such terms is a bit much. It wouldn't be right in a bank or a supermarket, but part of a nurse's job is to be kind and caring and understanding, hence those terms. They are not robots.

seamus · 04-12-2018 10:44am

Pierce Limited Gown wrote: »

So, it's a non-story and Newstalk either got it ass-ways or deliberately misled.

Deliberate mislead. All of the Dennis O'Brien stations ran with it as "big news".

He's taking the lead from Murdock and other moguls, directing his media to push and twist stories that are deliberately incendiary, regardless of their context or actual impact.

I've stopped listening to Today FM in the evenings because even Matt Cooper has allowed himself to become a pawn in it.

Captain Obvious · 04-12-2018 10:50am

Omackeral wrote: »

Right up your street so!

Dig up Omackeral, dig up.

cursai · 04-12-2018 11:09am

You'd want to be some sort of awkward and entitled brat to be offended our patronised by these terms.
More depersonalisation of services. If people think that's a good thing they know nothing about hospital care, which many might understandably find to be a very personal thing.
But sure who wants the kindness of a stranger when we have an annoying family member to wreck staffs heads.

ohnonotgmail · 04-12-2018 11:11am

cursai wrote: »

You'd want to be some sort of awkward and entitled brat to be offended our patronised by these terms.
More depersonalisation of services. If people think that's a good thing they know nothing about hospital care, which many might understandably find to be a very personal thing.
But sure who wants the kindness of a stranger when we have an annoying family member to wreck staffs heads.

why are you still going on about this as if it was true? This was fake news.

listermint · 04-12-2018 11:14am

I guess this is another symptom of minority rule.

I.e the minority of people who are loud prcks who dislike something always get their way.

Situations like this are never to the benefit of the wider public. Ever. As can be seen from this very thread. A few individuals find it offensive but they are the usual grumpy suspects and are like that in many aspects of their lifes.

Minority rules

ohnonotgmail · 04-12-2018 11:15am

listermint wrote: »

I guess this is another symptom of minority rule.

I.e the minority of people who are loud prcks who dislike something always get their way.

Situations like this are never to the benefit of the wider public. Ever. As can be seen from this very thread. A few individuals find it offensive but they are the usual grumpy suspects and are like that in many aspects of their lifes.

Minority rules

This was fake news.

cursai · 04-12-2018 11:18am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why are you still going on about this as if it was true? This was fake news.

Just having a conversation about the whole mindset which is still being discussed in the report. Is that okay? Or are conversations too personal to be having on the wards now as well?

cursai · 04-12-2018 11:19am

Taco Chips wrote: »

I am a healthcare professional and I welcome the directive for similar reasons already expressed in the thread.

I always cringe whenever I hear a patient being spoken to with "love" "dear" "darling". It is condescending. Especially when we are talking about a 20/30 something old nurse talking to a 80/90 year old. Language like this perpetuates the unequal power dynamic between care giver and patient. If you consider the psychology of a sick person, by removing their maturity and their right to be respected you are reinforcing in overt ways that the are sick and not that they are recovering.

As already mentioned, patients who are respected and actively participate in their care have better outcomes. Sure this might seem like a small thing but it adds up to a big picture in reshaping modern healthcare relationships. Patients need power and autonomy over their own health and they deserve an equal relationship with their doctors and nurses. I call my patients by their first name out of politeness or whatever they prefer to be referred as. Our conversations are exchanges and we are both there to work to a shared goal. It's a simple initiative and it requires a very mild effort on the part of us healthcare providers in changing our own behaviours.

Which hospital do you work in. It's just that I want to know how far I'll have to crawl on my deathbed to avoid it.

ohnonotgmail · 04-12-2018 11:20am

cursai wrote: »

Just having a conversation about the whole mindset which is still being discussed in the report. Is that okay? Or are conversations too personal to be having on the wards now as well?

The report is not about depersonalisation. quite the opposite. They are asking staff to address people by their name. How in the name of god is that depersonalisation?

cursai · 04-12-2018 11:21am

Would they not be better off redeploying admin staff to patient care rather than discussing the vocabulary of the already squeezed frontline staff.

ohnonotgmail · 04-12-2018 11:21am

cursai wrote: »

Would they not be better off redeploying admin staff to patient care rather than discussing the vocabulary of the already squeezed frontline staff.

what part of "we prefer if staff address patients by their name" causes you difficulty?

cursai · 04-12-2018 11:23am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The report is not about depersonalisation. quite the opposite. They are asking staff to address people by their name. How in the name of god is that depersonalisation?

Read the report. About three lines further than where you stopped which is probably four lines further than you bothered to read.

cursai · 04-12-2018 11:23am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what part of "we prefer if staff address patients by their name" causes you difficulty?

None

Alun · 04-12-2018 11:23am

erica74 wrote: »

I work in the HSE and think it's absolutely ludicrous that this is what they're worrying about.

Aren't they allowed to worry about multiple things at once, and propose solutions to the easier problems, or are they supposed to write out a big list and start at the top working down ignoring everything else?

ohnonotgmail · 04-12-2018 11:25am

cursai wrote: »

Read the report. About three lines further than where you stopped which is probably four lines further than you bothered to read.

they ask staff to be careful how they refer to people to prevent depersonalisation. What exactly do you have a problem with?

cursai · 04-12-2018 11:25am

Alun wrote: »

Aren't they allowed to worry about multiple things at once, and propose solutions to the easier problems, or are they supposed to write out a big list and start at the top working down ignoring everything else?

I think he means the priorities are very wrong. They need to deal with other stuff before they can discuss whether this particular thing is wrong

cursai · 04-12-2018 11:26am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they ask staff to be careful how they refer to people to prevent depersonalisation. What exactly do you have a problem with?

I thought you said the report had nothing to do with depersonalisation?

ohnonotgmail · 04-12-2018 11:29am

cursai wrote: »

I thought you said the report had nothing to do with depersonalisation?

I was responding to your comment where you implied that the HSE want staff to depersonalise their interactions with patients. What exactly is your issue with what the HSE is trying to achieve here?

cursai · 04-12-2018 11:31am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I was responding to your comment where you implied that the HSE want staff to depersonalise their interactions with patients. What exactly is your issue with what the HSE is trying to achieve here?

OK. Em....Good luck with those English lessons pet.

KingofSheep · 04-12-2018 11:31am

Alun wrote: »

Aren't they allowed to worry about multiple things at once, and propose solutions to the easier problems, or are they supposed to write out a big list and start at the top working down ignoring everything else?

When you have patients waiting on trolleys in corridors for hours and hours there is something wrong with the system. It just gives the impression that they are wasting resources on more trivial matters when urgent action is needed to sort out the mess that we currently have.

Alun · 04-12-2018 12:18pm

cursai wrote: »

I think he means the priorities are very wrong. They need to deal with other stuff before they can discuss whether this particular thing is wrong

KingofSheep wrote: »

When you have patients waiting on trolleys in corridors for hours and hours there is something wrong with the system. It just gives the impression that they are wasting resources on more trivial matters when urgent action is needed to sort out the mess that we currently have.

Yes, there are other, arguably more important things that need doing, but these are orders of magnitude more difficult to fix. It would be ridiculous to suggest that the entire effort of the HSE be concentrated on fixing just one thing to the total exclusion of everything else in the mean time.

I mean, exactly how much time and effort went in to this decision? Probably an infinitely small amount compared to what might be needed for any of the larger problems.

dr.fuzzenstein · 04-12-2018 12:20pm

KingofSheep wrote: »

When you have patients waiting on trolleys in corridors for hours and hours there is something wrong with the system. It just gives the impression that they are wasting resources on more trivial matters when urgent action is needed to sort out the mess that we currently have.

The problem in my opinion is the fact that there is an official policy document regards the use of the words luv or pet.
It makes me die a little inside that humankind has become such utter spineless pondscum that anyone would think there needs to be some kind of regulation regarding this.
Only some ratfaced, snivelling little git would come up with something like this. Or some ADHD, OCD ballbag that needs to regulate the folding of socks down the last milimeter.
The problem with these people is that they have absolutely no magnificence in them.
We are becoming a generation of people that will go crying to mammy over every tiny thing.

HSE No Longer Allowed to Refer to Patients as "Love" or "Dear"

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