Waterford University discussion

merlante · 18-09-2011 5:36pm

jmcc wrote: »

It really is simple. Social Science is for people who are not smart enough for Technology, Science or Mathematics.

Agreed but people should not be listening to morons who just think that they are smart.

HA! Intellectual elite indeed. These people are not that intellectual and they are not elite. They are the kind of people who would be dragged up in a trawl of any lightweight, backwoods Arts faculty.

This statement sounds like the wibbling of someone who doesn't understand business or entrepreneurship.

Well the political "elite" were often little more than maintainers of the local parish pump - no different from most other politicians in Ireland.

Waterford needs a university. The best chance is a technological university. Leave the Arts and the pseudo-science to the ordinary universities but have a small Arts section in the new university but with very good lecturers. That way you get the best of both worlds and the best Arts types because of the competition.

You're just being insulting to social scientists without really giving any concrete basis for your arguments. I suppose you're one of the smart people, who understands business and entrepreneurship and everything else? Maybe the new university should give you a department of your own so you can teach "the natural truth" or whatever.

Still, despite your rabid, anti-arts "wibbling", you still manage to converge on a reasonable conclusion. "Best of both worlds" sounds great to me.

fricatus · 20-09-2011 10:52am

Article in today's Irish Times:

Timeline for upgrade of Waterford IT to university sought
BARRY ROCHE, Southern Correspondent

THE GOVERNMENT has been urged to give a timeline for the fast-track upgrading of Waterford Institute of Technology to a full university following confirmation that the Cabinet is committed to such a move.

Waterford Chamber of Commerce welcomed the announcement that the Government had moved to accelerate the setting up of a university in the southeast, with Waterford IT likely to be upgraded to a technological university under the proposals.

According to Waterford Chamber of Commerce president Anne Marie Caulfield, the upgrading of WIT to a technological university could offer the southeast an economic boost.

Ms Caulfield said a 2005 Goodbody report commissioned by Waterford Chamber revealed that a university could generate up to €96 million annually for the southeast. Further reports commissioned by Waterford chamber in 2007 and 2008 showed university-designated third- and fourth-level education must be delivered in Waterford if the southeast was to improve on its poor economic performance relative to the rest of the State, she added.

Earlier this month, Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation Richard Bruton said the Cabinet had decided to give priority to the promise in the programme for government. It was one part of a three-pronged approach to the jobs crisis in the southeast which would also involve IDA Ireland and the Department of Social Protection.

The department is sending officials to Waterford next week to assist the 575 people who lost their jobs at TalkTalk, Mr Bruton added.

Master and commander · 20-09-2011 11:06am

someone answer me this, would the Technological University be a part of NUI, or is it stand alone? Because if it is not part of NUI, then it is not a real university, just a wannabe. It's graduates cannot vote in senate elections then.

merlante · 20-09-2011 11:32am

While I think it's great the Chamber of Commerce is keeping the issue alive, the government has not said it will "fast-track upgrading of Waterford Institute of Technology to a full university". The 'fast-tack' comment was retracted within half a day and it was never to "full university" in so far as it was a technological university.

I presume they are just making mischief. Still, good points made there. I do think it's ridiculous the obsession about university league tables at the moment where moving a college up 30 places, at possibly a significant cost, makes only a very minor difference to the quality of graduates, whereas creating a university in the south east, at a relatively small cost, could have a huge impact on the region, which accounts for 11% of the national population.

merlante · 20-09-2011 11:35am

Master and commander wrote: »

someone answer me this, would the Technological University be a part of NUI, or is it stand alone? Because if it is not part of NUI, then it is not a real university, just a wannabe. It's graduates cannot vote in senate elections then.

It would not be part of the NUI but then neither is UL or DCU, or even Trinity. The NUI is on the brink of being disbanded anyway so I wouldn't worry about it. The universities themselves seem to be protected species, everything else, including IoTs probably, is up for grabs.

Psychedelic · 20-09-2011 1:36pm

merlante wrote: »

While I think it's great the Chamber of Commerce is keeping the issue alive, the government has not said it will "fast-track upgrading of Waterford Institute of Technology to a full university". The 'fast-tack' comment was retracted within half a day and it was never to "full university" in so far as it was a technological university.

I would say that was the journalist's mistake/misunderstanding and not what the Chamber actually said.

fuzzy dunlop · 21-09-2011 3:26pm

I think social sciences are getting a bad rap here. I come from a technology and engineering background myself and a purely "technological" University in Waterford in my opinion would not acheive the type of stimulas we would expect from an upgrade. Also I think the amount of graduates we produce without any exposure of any kind to concepts like ethics or what it means to be part of a society is staggering.What it amounts to is that our third level education is not really education in the traditional sense but rather a modern version of "apprenticeship". The amount of competent engineers and technicians I know who have zero knowledge of issues like environmental protection, economics or social contracts, immigration etc. is staggering. The amount of times I heard guys with degrees and in some case ME's coming out with statements decrying why they can't build their 2000 square feet bungalow on land just because they own it.They then blame the government because their drinking water is polluted. The point is their is a mental disconnect between their rights and responsibilites that their "education" has not bridged.

Another poster here has also referred to the media prescence of graduates from Universities from Galway,Dublin and Cork.This is an excellent point. Economics, Crime and Planning have been the mainstay of Current affairs in this country for two decades. How many times have you seen someone from WIT on prime time,Vincent Brown, the last word/right hook etc. from WIT. The Answer is hardly ever. Academics from the Universities are regularly featured and will often refer to their own localities to highlight issues. The same is true for graduates working in the media who again often refer their "expert" knowledge to their locality.

Master and commander · 21-09-2011 7:40pm

I have not made my mind up on whether it should go ahead. One reason why I and probably the powers that be would be very reluctant to grant Uni status is because it could result in a domino effect - once WIT gets it, then CIT will say "well if they got it, sure maybe we could...." and so on with an avalanche of IT's right down to the likes of (former)Tipperary Institute trying to jump on the Technological University bandwagon. The same as when WRTC became an IT, then they all ended up as IT's.
If this were to happen then the technological university concept would be devalued and amount to only a change in name, as has been thrashed out before on here.

wellboytoo · 21-09-2011 7:53pm

Master and commander wrote: »

I have not made my mind up on whether it should go ahead. One reason why I and probably the powers that be would be very reluctant to grant Uni status is because it could result in a domino effect - once WIT gets it, then CIT will say "well if they got it, sure maybe we could...." and so on with an avalanche of IT's right down to the likes of (former)Tipperary Institute trying to jump on the Technological University bandwagon. The same as when WRTC became an IT, then they all ended up as IT's.
If this were to happen then the technological university concept would be devalued and amount to only a change in name, as has been thrashed out before on here.

So tis you everyone is waiting for to make up their mind then!

dayshah · 21-09-2011 9:37pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Another poster here has also referred to the media prescence of graduates from Universities from Galway,Dublin and Cork.This is an excellent point. Economics, Crime and Planning have been the mainstay of Current affairs in this country for two decades. How many times have you seen someone from WIT on prime time,Vincent Brown, the last word/right hook etc. from WIT.

Jim Power isn't from WIT, but he gets plenty of coverage, and hasn't forgotten that he's from Waterford.

fricatus · 21-09-2011 10:08pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

So tis you everyone is waiting for to make up their mind then!

LOL brilliant...

If only... then we'd know who we needed to convince.

dayshah wrote: »

Jim Power isn't from WIT, but he gets plenty of coverage, and hasn't forgotten that he's from Waterford.

The point that fuzzy dunlop was making wasn't about where the various media contributors come from originally, but what academic institutions get represented in the media as being centres of thought, discussion, research, etc., and therefore which ones are perceived nationally as important.

Contributors from WIT are as rare as hens' teeth in the national media, despite how excellent they may individually be. When RTE, Today FM or Newstalk want someone to comment on unemployment, interest rates, new vaccines, or whatever, they pick up the phone to one of the universities, and that feeds into people's perception of the universities as somehow superior.

And I should hope Jim Power hasn't forgotten that he's from Waterford! What we need though, is to see a few media contributors over the next few years who are Waterford-based. That's the challenge, even if WIT does become a university.

merlante · 22-09-2011 1:03pm

Master and commander wrote: »

I have not made my mind up on whether it should go ahead. One reason why I and probably the powers that be would be very reluctant to grant Uni status is because it could result in a domino effect - once WIT gets it, then CIT will say "well if they got it, sure maybe we could...." and so on with an avalanche of IT's right down to the likes of (former)Tipperary Institute trying to jump on the Technological University bandwagon. The same as when WRTC became an IT, then they all ended up as IT's.
If this were to happen then the technological university concept would be devalued and amount to only a change in name, as has been thrashed out before on here.

That's a crap reason in fairness. A government with the balls to close hospitals should have the same balls to upgrade one IoT for a good reason and deny all the rest. Simple as that. Talking about 'domino effects' and 'avalanches' gives the impression we are dealing with vast natural forces beyond human control, which is simply not true.

fricatus · 04-10-2011 10:49am

The Irish Times wrote:

The 50 most influential people in education

Surprise, surprise - nobody from WIT on the list. Is any of these individuals even from Waterford?

Max Powers · 04-10-2011 1:40pm

There was an article on WIT and its attempted re-designation in back of Sunday Times. Basically said that it could generate millions for the economy but nothing is happening or likely to happen soon.

letsbet · 04-10-2011 1:45pm

Max Powers wrote: »

There was an article on WIT and its attempted re-designation in back of Sunday Times. Basically said that it could generate millions for the economy but nothing is happening or likely to happen soon.

That's fast-tracking for ya!

Psychedelic · 04-10-2011 6:49pm

Max Powers wrote: »

There was an article on WIT and its attempted re-designation in back of Sunday Times. Basically said that it could generate millions for the economy but nothing is happening or likely to happen soon.

Think this is the article: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0920/1224304413084.html

The criteria for a Technological University are to be definitely published before the end of this year, and then in 2012 WIT could apply for TU status. No doubt some other issues will arise to stop or delay the upgrade to TU.

dayshah · 04-10-2011 8:07pm

fricatus wrote: »

The point that fuzzy dunlop was making wasn't about where the various media contributors come from originally, but what academic institutions get represented in the media as being centres of thought, discussion, research, etc., and therefore which ones are perceived nationally as important.

I can't remember the last time I saw someone from Galway or UCC either. They just go for Dublin academics because that is where they are based. Its easier to send a camera crew to TCD than WIT or UCC.

fuzzy dunlop · 05-10-2011 12:42am

dayshah wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I saw someone from Galway or UCC either. They just go for Dublin academics because that is where they are based. Its easier to send a camera crew to TCD than WIT or UCC.

People like Alan Ahearne and Ed Walsh are prominently on VB and various readio commentary. It doesn't matter where someone is based due to the miracle of the telephone:rolleyes:

cocoshovel · 05-10-2011 3:22pm

While we're at it can we turn WCFE into an I.T :pac:

johnnykilo · 05-10-2011 3:49pm

There is a female lecturer from WIT who has appeared on the Six-one news and Vincent Brown on a couple of occasions. She's a criminologist, but she's the only WIT academic that I've ever seen on television.

EMSCHAP · 05-10-2011 4:05pm

cocoshovel wrote: »

While we're at it can we turn WCFE into an I.T :pac:

WCFE would be ideally suited to take over all the apprentice courses which will be taken out of WIT if it ever makes uni status. In fact in it's days as CTI, it was the home of apprentice/trades education in the city.

O Riain · 05-10-2011 4:26pm

EMSCHAP wrote: »

WCFE would be ideally suited to take over all the apprentice courses which will be taken out of WIT if it ever makes uni status. In fact in it's days as CTI, it was the home of apprentice/trades education in the city.

The whole point of the technological university even being conceived is that these courses wont be comprimised.

dayshah · 05-10-2011 6:14pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

People like Alan Ahearne and Ed Walsh are prominently on VB and various readio commentary. It doesn't matter where someone is based due to the miracle of the telephone:rolleyes:

Not many telephone interviews on TV.

You've a point about Alan Ahearne (I can only remember one media appearance), but Ed Walsh is just a media whore. He is no longer with UL, he could even live in Dublin now.

Galway has a good tele thingy, due to TG4, who cooperate with RTE.

Dublin academics are far more likely to go to Dept Finance launches of publications and so on, where they mix with journalists. The journalists then get their contact info.

Anyway media appearance are in no way a reflection of academic ability.

fricatus · 28-11-2011 9:56am

In fairness to Ed Walsh, he's in favour of a university in Waterford:

Dr Ed Walsh wrote:

The 2010 recommendation to create a technological university has triggered a distracting political and academic dynamic making it appear essential for most warm-blooded academics and local politicians to seek university status for their institute of technology.

The institutes of technology form as vital a component of regional infrastructure as the universities: both are required. The technological university recommendation should be shelved. One anomaly exists however: Waterford is Ireland’s only regional city without a university and there is a strong economic case for addressing this major infrastructural deficit in the southeast. The Waterford Institute of Technology should be transformed into the University of Waterford with possible outreach programmes in Kilkenny and Carlow. Sub-degree work should be reassigned to the adjacent IofTs. Finance should not be an issue; most of the capital investment has already been made.

Source: Irish Times, 25 November 2011 - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/innovation/2011/1125/1224307877743.html

dayshah · 28-11-2011 6:42pm

fricatus wrote: »

In fairness to Ed Walsh, he's in favour of a university in Waterford:

I don't like Ed Walsh, but he certainly isn't part of any Dublin academic cosy consensus.

Trotter · 28-11-2011 7:59pm

I think after going through the hoops and roundabouts, the reality is that us having a university would mean Waterford would prosper, at the perceived expense of our friends down the south coast and in Dublin.

Therefore, the turkeys won't ever vote for Christmas until we have influential turkeys of our own. Given that our turkeys number a lot less than other areas' turkeys, and their turkeys are very very influential turkeys.. its a clear decision, and one based on anything but the merits of the plan.

Sully · 28-11-2011 8:49pm

Rumour has it that the head of Carlow IT is the new WIT President!

letsbet · 28-11-2011 10:00pm

Sully wrote: »

Rumour has it that the head of Carlow IT is the new WIT President!

:rolleyes:

MacGyver · 29-11-2011 11:20am

I thought rumors weren't allowed without something to substantiate them?

Max Powers · 29-11-2011 11:22am

Trotter wrote: »

I think after going through the hoops and roundabouts, the reality is that us having a university would mean Waterford would prosper, at the perceived expense of our friends down the south coast and in Dublin.

Therefore, the turkeys won't ever vote for Christmas until we have influential turkeys of our own. Given that our turkeys number a lot less than other areas' turkeys, and their turkeys are very very influential turkeys.. its a clear decision, and one based on anything but the merits of the plan.

That sums up the situation and our quest for a level playing field nicely.

merlante · 29-11-2011 1:44pm

Max Powers wrote: »

That sums up the situation and our quest for a level playing field nicely.

Unfortunately, it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy (similar to the occupy Waterford won't get anywhere so I won't join them argument).

Waterford/south east expects powerful vested interests to block university -> powerful vested interests realise that they can get away with blocking it -> no university is delivered.

No point in going to the table with a face like you're going to lose.

Max Powers · 29-11-2011 2:22pm

merlante wrote: »

Unfortunately, it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy (similar to the occupy Waterford won't get anywhere so I won't join them argument).

Waterford/south east expects powerful vested interests to block university -> powerful vested interests realise that they can get away with blocking it -> no university is delivered.

No point in going to the table with a face like you're going to lose.

This cam[paign has been going on for years now, certainly since I was in WRTC (95 approx) so no one is giving up teh ghost on this as it is massively important to the south east.

Sully · 29-11-2011 4:34pm

MacGyver wrote: »

I thought rumors weren't allowed without something to substantiate them?

Indeed, if they are damaging to a business. This is hardly damaging and its come from within WIT so its worth mentioning.

robtri · 29-11-2011 10:47pm

Trotter wrote: »

I think after going through the hoops and roundabouts, the reality is that us having a university would mean Waterford would prosper, at the perceived expense of our friends down the south coast and in Dublin.

Therefore, the turkeys won't ever vote for Christmas until we have influential turkeys of our own. Given that our turkeys number a lot less than other areas' turkeys, and their turkeys are very very influential turkeys.. its a clear decision, and one based on anything but the merits of the plan.

all this talk of turkey makes me hungry......

i thought thius was a discussion on the WIT not farming...

Sully · 01-12-2011 3:42pm

MacGyver wrote: »

I thought rumors weren't allowed without something to substantiate them?

The current President of Institute of Technology in Carlow Dr Ruaidhri Neavyn is expected to be ratified as the new Waterford IT president.The decision will go the Governing body next Tuesday for ratification.Before going to Carlow Rory Neavyn held several senior management positions at Limerick IT including Head of Development and Registrar.Earlier last month speaking at a student conferring in Carlow Ruaidhri Neavyn, praised the visionary initiative taken by Minister Phil Hogan in the recommendation to explore the establishment of a multi-campus Technological University in the South East.He said the Governing Body, looked forward to the campuses of IT Carlow being key and highly influential to any proposed multi-campus University for the South East.He will replace Professor Kieran Byrne whose second term was not ratified by the WIT board earlier this year.Chairman Donie Ormonde said at the time that given the strategic nature of the appointment, at a time of change and challenge in the third-level sector, the board decided to broaden its search and selection process both nationally and internationallyIt folllowed controversy after details of spending by Prof Byrne’s office showed that more than €130,000 was spent on taxis since 2004 and a similar figure was spent on fine art. Tony McFeely was appointed interim president last May and will remain in the position until Rory Neavyntakes up the post on January first.

Source: http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/136456.html

There, its official. Happy?!

Psychedelic · 01-12-2011 5:04pm

He said the Governing Body, looked forward to the campuses of IT Carlow being key and highly influential to any proposed multi-campus University for the South East.

Does anyone find this worrying? I don't like this multi-campus USE if it means WIT have to share with ITC. I don't mind if it was just a few courses being done in ITC, but it's starting to sound like ITC might play a big role in our technological university. Why should it? Waterford and WIT have done all the hard work and lobbying to get this far, and now it looks like ITC can just hop aboard.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but it would be disappointing if WIT cannot become a technological university on its own without having to give something out to other IT's. The whole point of our university campaign is to be on an equal playing field with the other cities and have a university in the SE region but it now looks we'll have 2 pieces of a technological university on opposite ends of the region.

letsbet · 01-12-2011 5:12pm

As a WIT employee and someone who cares about the college and the region I would be equally concerned with this from a number of viewpoints. I suppose it might be better than merging with CIT as the rumour was that all higher level courses would have been moved to Cork. WIT would obviously be the bigger player if any merger goes ahead wit Carlow but I still think it'll have negative effects.

johnnykilo · 01-12-2011 5:27pm

Psychedelic wrote: »

Does anyone find this worrying? I don't like this multi-campus USE if it means WIT have to share with ITC. I don't mind if it was just a few courses being done in ITC, but it's starting to sound like ITC might play a big role in our technological university. Why should it? Waterford and WIT have done all the hard work and lobbying to get this far, and now it looks like ITC can just hop aboard.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but it would be disappointing if WIT cannot become a technological university on its own without having to give something out to other IT's. The whole point of our university campaign is to be on an equal playing field with the other cities and have a university in the SE region but it now looks we'll have 2 pieces of a technological university on opposite ends of the region.

Well hopefully the fact that he'll now be working for WIT and answerable to their board of directors might make him rethink his earlier stance.

Psychedelic · 01-12-2011 5:33pm

Earlier stance? I think he made that comment today, upon his appointment. I also read a quote recently from Tony McFeely who was the acting president until today, about how WIT was working with ITC on the multi campus university.

Sully · 01-12-2011 6:54pm

Iv been told a few times that Carlow & Waterford are meeting regularly in relation to forming a University.

dayshah · 07-12-2011 8:50pm

Féach anseo for a report and various submissions.

http://www.hea.ie/en/node/1415

jmcc · 07-12-2011 9:00pm

dayshah wrote: »

Féach anseo for a report and various submissions.

http://www.hea.ie/en/node/1415

Ah feck! McCann't hasn't objected already?

Then again there's an awful lot of input there that's not from the SE.

Regards...jmcc

dayshah · 07-12-2011 9:12pm

jmcc wrote: »

Ah feck! McCann't hasn't objected already?

Then again there's an awful lot of input there that's not from the SE.

Regards...jmcc

I don't think McCann ever objected to a WIT project. I wish he objected to Carriganore though

This is for all the ITs, but most submissions seem related to WIT. If we want a university we would need at least one national lobby group (whether IBEC, ICTU, or anything else) to support it at a national level. We can all tell ourselves in Waterford how good it would be for us, but we've totally failed to convince anyone else that its a good idea. (Except Ed Walsh apparently)

O Riain · 07-12-2011 9:35pm

People were wondering whether this would lead to a flood of Technological Universtities. I never thought it would, One of the criteria is

An institution large enough to be comparable with existing universities in Ireland;

This alone surely knocks every I.T. out of contention asside from cork,wit and dit.

In fact in the detailed report it states

Scale
The Hunt report notes a UK threshold of 4000 FTE with 3000 FTE at degree level.
Given the size of the existing universities together with the range of TU functions, this
would seem too small for a TU. A size of at least 10,000 students would seem closer to
the mark. Once Level 6-7 enrolments are taken out of a TU of 10,000 that would leave
an institution little or no bigger than the smallest existing university. Student
numbers, rather than FTE, are relevant here given the Hunt report’s argument about
enhancing the element of equivalence between full-time and part-time students. But
exactly where a size threshold should fall will always be debatable and it would be
wise not to be prescriptive or rigid in this matter. Population density varies across
the country, future population size cannot be known with precision, and all TU
benchmarks must be able to stand the tests of time and universal applicability across
the country. In addition, any benchmarks in relation to scale are affected by the
growth of non-standard enrolments and international student numbers, which are
both difficult to forecast, especially the latter.

WIT and Cork I.T. are the only I.T's outside of dublin with student populations big enough for this. I wonder if institutes teaming up, like L.I.T have done with Tipperary Institute counts towards this?

letsbet · 07-12-2011 10:14pm

Amazing how the new director (I refuse to use the word president) was in the paper today in a list of high earners before we've been officially told that he has the job. Why tell the staff first eh!

dayshah · 08-12-2011 7:56pm

Just for anyone who might still be deluding themselves that there might be some funding hidden away somewhere that might make upgrading WIT meaningful, here is a link to Dept Educations Comprehensive Review of Expenditure.

Unsurprisingly, there is no mention of the fairy godmother having waived her magic wand to isolate Waterford from the cuts agenda.

tom traubert · 14-12-2011 10:51pm

Apparently the staff of I.T. Carlow are to be addressed tomorrow by Ruaidhrí Neavyn.

The rumour mill in Carlow has it that he is to jointly head up both W.I.T. and I.T. Carlow, the carrot being that it is the possible route to the formation of some form of Technological University of the South East.

The governing body of W.I.T. are believed to be opposed to the proposal.

I stress again my earlier use of the phrase "the rumour mill has it".

dayshah · 14-12-2011 11:52pm

I really don't see any benefit in merging with an institution an hours drive away.

tom traubert · 16-12-2011 2:02am

dayshah wrote: »

I really don't see any benefit in merging with an institution an hours drive away.

I wouldn't be qualified to have an opinion worth airing on a merger to be truthful.

Anyways, further to my earlier post Dr. Neavyn and the chair of the governing body of I.T.C. addressed staff.

It appears that the Carlow directors post will be advertised, but only for an 18 month fixed contract. Also Dr. N made further reference to the aspirations to have a Tech Uni of the South East. What I wasn't told was whether these aspirations were his own or someone elses.

It'll keep the rumour mill grinding away a while yet no doubt.

Sully · 17-01-2012 1:43am

THE SOUTHEAST is set to win its long battle for university status, despite strong opposition from some university presidents and senior figures in the Higher Education Authority.

Sources say approval for a technological university of the southeast is now “inevitable” as it has strong support from several senior Cabinet figures, including Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan and Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Brendan Howlin.

Mr Hogan and Mr Howlin represent Kilkenny and Wexford respectively in the Dáil.

The process, which will see the institutes of technology in Waterford and Carlow transformed into a technological university, begins next month when Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn agrees new authority rules governing the establishment of a technological university.

This will open the way for the institutes of technology to apply for technological university status.

Approval for a technological university of Dublin – bringing together Dublin Institute of Technology and institutes of technology in Tallaght and Blanchardstown – is also thought likely.

One university president said yesterday: “There will be at least one – and possibly more – technological universities up and running before long. That’s certain.”

The debate on recasting the institutes as technological universities has been bitter and divisive over the past six weeks. University presidents have warned the move could damage the international reputation of Irish education by lowering standards.

There has also been a heated debate at the HEA board, with opinion divided about the criteria which institutes should meet before they become eligible to apply for a new status as technological universities.

The authority is due to finalise these rules before the end of the month but sources say the debate is now being led by Ministers.

One senior source said: “The HEA can be as exacting as they like in drawing up the new rules. The southeast region has a very strong political wind behind it. It is getting university status . . . the only question is when.”

The southeast has run a decade-long battle for university status. The region has one of the lowest third-level participation rates in the State.

After the collapse of the TalkTalk call centre with the loss of 575 jobs in October, Mr Hogan and IDA chief executive Barry O’Leary argued that a university in the southeast could transform the region’s troubled economy.

The Hunt report on higher education last year ruled out the establishment of new universities but held out the prospect of some institutes of technology being redesignated as technological universities, provided strict criteria were met.

University presidents say fewer than 20 per cent of academic staff in the institutes hold PhDs compared to an average of more than 75 per cent in the universities.

In recent years, there has been criticism that the institutes – formerly regional technical colleges – have moved away from their original mission of supporting industry. All now offer an extensive range of arts and humanities courses. Under the new rules, the technological universities will be expected to focus on science and technology.

The Hunt report said the field of learning in any new technological universities must be “closely related to labour market skill needs with a particular focus on programmes in science, engineering and technology and including an emphasis on workplace learning”.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0117/1224310362772.html

They said it would never happen, but its even closer now according to reports. Assuming this goes according to plan, can we gather up all the naysayers here on Boards and everywhere else and ask what they think now?

Good news for Waterford & The South East.

Waterford University discussion

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