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Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

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Comments

  • #2102
    daniel_t1409
    Closed Accounts Posts: 366 ✭✭daniel_t1409


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Doesn't say they're banned. The trails are advertised specifically for walking and cycling. There's no sign saying you can't bring a horse into a supermarket or church, but common sense you know.

    I'd imagine anyone bringing a horse onto a greenway would be made most unwelcome and get stares and comments from other users. Not everyone likes being in close quarters to a large unpredictable animal.
    Wait, what? comparing greenways to churches? :confused:
    I doubt anyone would even care about seeing a horse on a greenway, it's only for about 2 seconds anyway you'd be going past the horse.

    The only thing people would care about is the s--- that horses drop. :D


  • #2103
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    CatInABox wrote: »
    It's so bizarre. We need speed limiters on electric bikes and scooters because they're "dangerous", but cars? Trucks? Nah, they're totally safe. Totally.

    They won't even mandate that trucks and vans that access city centres have higher visibility cab designs! Something that would save dozens of lives every year.

    There are so many reasonable laws that could be enacted that would literally stop people dying, but the government won't do it because you have to balance the needs of people who drive. It's insane. I really believe we'll look back on the car-obsessed era like we look back on trepanning or some other medieval ****.


  • #2104
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    daniel_t1409 wrote: »
    Wait, what? comparing greenways to churches? :confused:
    I doubt anyone would even care about seeing a horse on a greenway, it's only for about 2 seconds anyway you'd be going past the horse.

    The only thing people would care about is the s--- that horses drop. :D

    Main problem is that hard surfaces like greenways and roads are generally not great for horses as they can cause concussive injuries. People who care for their horses would want to avoid this, so would try to avoid these surfaces.


  • #2105
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    MJohnston wrote: »
    They won't even mandate that trucks and vans that access city centres have higher visibility cab designs! Something that would save dozens of lives every year.

    There are so many reasonable laws that could be enacted that would literally stop people dying, but the government won't do it because you have to balance the needs of people who drive. It's insane. I really believe we'll look back on the car-obsessed era like we look back on trepanning or some other medieval ****.

    Are these covered by EU regulations, or can we do as we see necessary?

    Would the EU be a better place to get speed limiters for cars, and trucks? Also safer designs like the ones for higher visibility as suggested.


  • #2106
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,527 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Main problem is that hard surfaces like greenways and roads are generally not great for horses as they can cause concussive injuries. People who care for their horses would want to avoid this, so would try to avoid these surfaces.

    Doesn't seem to bother those for whom horses are part of their "culture".


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  • #2107
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Doesn't seem to bother those for whom horses are part of their "culture".

    Jockeys?


  • #2108
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Jockeys?

    I think they're talking about the Garda Mounted Unit.


  • #2109
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    hans aus dtschl wrote: »
    I think they're talking about the Garda Mounted Unit.

    If having an anonymous cut off the 'Garda Mounted Unit' at Christmas is important enough to posters to waddle into the boards.ie Greenways thread to do it, why be coy about it? :pac:


  • #2110
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Jesus lads, go away.


  • #2111
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,947 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    daniel_t1409 wrote: »
    Wait, what? comparing greenways to churches? :confused:
    I doubt anyone would even care about seeing a horse on a greenway, it's only for about 2 seconds anyway you'd be going past the horse.

    The only thing people would care about is the s--- that horses drop. :D

    Oddly enough I passed a couple walking along the greenway where I jog only last week.

    Irish people yet an ethnic minority for some reason.

    Needless to say, 30 yards on, the greenway was full of horse sh*t.

    A change from the scumbags who have their dogs loose, I suppose.


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  • #2112
    nilhg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,161 ✭✭✭nilhg


    A little news, it seems that the first section of the Barrow Blueway will open on Monday, the section from Ballyteague back towards Glanaree bridge, I was by both ends this morning and it's looking well.

    536391.jpg

    That's lock 20 in the picture.

    I haven't been to the southern works recently but the county council website suggests that section may be complete by Christmas as well

    http://www.kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/AllServices/Planning/PublicRealm/BarrowBlueway/


  • #2113
    Grassey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    https://www.waterwaysireland.org/news-centre/news/340/waterways-ireland-to-commence-ulster-canal-6m-programme-following-shared-ireland-fund-announcement-

    Looks like phases 4 & 5 cover the greenway
    The Ulster Canal is a significant link in our waterway network and will be complemented by the Ulster Canal Greenway when it is completed.


  • #2114
    Roland27
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Roland27


    Hi, I've written about the two greenways in the Boyne Valley below. Any feedback is appreciated.

    The Boyne Greenway: http://navancycling.ie/greenways/theboynegreenway/

    The Boyne Valley to Lakelands County Greenway: http://navancycling.ie/greenways/boynevalleytolakelands/


  • #2115
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Tender out for greenway construction from New Ross to Glenmore

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/180512/1/0


  • #2116
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,604 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Its a shame these schemes don't get more media attention

    The country really is going leaps and bounds with cycling infrastructure, but if you don't live around the area, you don't get told of it.


  • #2117
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Its a shame these schemes don't get more media attention

    The country really is going leaps and bounds with cycling infrastructure, but if you don't live around the area, you don't get told of it.

    There is a map in post #1 of this thread. It might help you find them.


  • #2118
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,604 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Sam Russell wrote: »


    There is a map in post #1 of this thread. It might help you find them.

    I know i just mean generally. With all the bad new stories, stuff like cycle-tourism promotion would be a nice breather for people.


  • #2119
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,527 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    veryangryman wrote: »
    I know i just mean generally. With all the bad new stories, stuff like cycle-tourism promotion would be a nice breather for people.

    Unless you live in the same county, it's a bit pointless once inter county travel is clamped down as it will be shortly and pubs, hotels and guesthouses shut or at reduced capacity for the foreseeable future.


  • #2120
    daniel_t1409
    Closed Accounts Posts: 366 ✭✭daniel_t1409


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    For me to consider it as a serious option it would need to have:

    1. An actual plan with details of how much it would cost, the route, possible difficulties
    2. Support from the local community and politicans
    3. Support from the people who's land it would run through or near. I'm guessing they'll be claims for adverse possession

    And finally and most importantly.

    4. I'd want to see it proposed by people who are actually going to use. And not by someone who is only suggesting it to stop cycling/walking infrastructure being built somewhere else.
    This is as bad as the crappy alternative plan put forward by the Sandymount residents group for the Strand Road. But at least they went to the trouble of doing crappy drawings.

    It won't be just tourists using the greenway. It will be a great amenity for locals too. Who will now have a safe way of getting around south Wexford that doesn't involve a car. Local children could be able to cycle to school.

    Here is a map I made of a possible route the greenway could go along. Hopefully that link works. There are a few difficulties, such as getting the greenway into wexford town. Also where some houses have been built along the old line.

    I based the route off how much of the line is still in CIE ownership(not registered on landdirect.ie) and how much of the trackbed is left. I calculated it, 83% of the New Ross-MJ section is still CIE hands or the trackbed is intact, or even both. For the sections going to Enniscorthy and Wexford it goes alongside the river Slaney/ the existing railway for most of the route but this may not be possible.

    I would certainly be using this greenway of it was ever built, I am in New Ross all the time :D.

    I know the plan is terrible :D


  • #2121
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,045 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    daniel_t1409 wrote: »
    Here is a map I made of a possible route the greenway could go along. Hopefully that link works. There are a few difficulties, such as getting the greenway into wexford town. Also where some houses have been built along the old line.

    I based the route off how much of the line is still in CIE ownership(not registered on landdirect.ie) and how much of the trackbed is left. I calculated it, 83% of the New Ross-MJ section is still CIE hands or the trackbed is intact, or even both. For the sections going to Enniscorthy and Wexford it goes alongside the river Slaney/ the existing railway for most of the route but this may not be possible.

    I would certainly be using this greenway of it was ever built, I am in New Ross all the time :D.

    I know the plan is terrible :D

    Just had a look at this map. From Google maps, very little of the trackbed is still intact, good chunks of the line you have drawn runs right through open fields, not even a ditch left. I wouldn't take not being registered on landdirect.ie as proof it of being in CIE ownership. Even if officially it still is, the ownership would be strongly contested. I don't think this is a realistic prospect for a Greenway.


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  • #2122
    daniel_t1409
    Closed Accounts Posts: 366 ✭✭daniel_t1409


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Just had a look at this map. From Google maps, very little of the trackbed is still intact, good chunks of the line you have drawn runs right through open fields, not even a ditch left. I wouldn't take not being registered on landdirect.ie as proof it of being in CIE ownership. Even if officially it still is, the ownership would be strongly contested. I don't think this is a realistic prospect for a Greenway.
    I still think this is possible for a greenway. Railways that are still in use are also not registered. The land that isn't registered follows the course of the old railway, even if it is just a field. The same thing happened in Dungarvan, the greenway goes through what used to be a field of you look on older satellite maps, it was just a field but still owned by CIE so the greenway went through it.

    The other option is to go alongside the existing Waterford-Rosslare track until Campile, and then link it up to the ferry at Ballyhack, and then a route from there into Waterford.

    Also, this isn't just me who has this idea, it has been mentioned multiple times by the South east on track group.


  • #2123
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Kerry County Council to seek planning for a Listowel to Tralee Greenway in mid 2021

    https://www.radiokerry.ie/kerry-county-councillor-calls-feasibility-study-effect-bypass-greenways-listowel/

    The railway line went via Abbeydorney and Lixnaw so it will not directly follow the N69. It would also see the completion of the Rathkeale-Tralee section of rail line.


  • #2124
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Limerick council are to conduct a feasibility study for a new geeeway linking the city centre with the Meelick area to the west. Not much detail yet but would likely run along the northern bank of the Shannon


  • #2125
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    A geeway? That’s sure to be popular


  • #2126
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    New approach to attract tourists ��


  • #2127
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Will there be a tunnel of love?


  • #2128
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    veryangryman wrote: »
    I know i just mean generally. With all the bad new stories, stuff like cycle-tourism promotion would be a nice breather for people.

    I would also point out that lack of reporting on them nationally means I cant update the map as I wont know when something is done... :confused:

    marno21 wrote: »
    Kerry County Council to seek planning for a Listowel to Tralee Greenway in mid 2021

    https://www.radiokerry.ie/kerry-county-councillor-calls-feasibility-study-effect-bypass-greenways-listowel/

    The railway line went via Abbeydorney and Lixnaw so it will not directly follow the N69. It would also see the completion of the Rathkeale-Tralee section of rail line.

    I can see demand for linking Limerick in to the Rathkeale-Listowel/Tralee greenway just continuing to grow, its a no brainer to do it but route options aren't obvious if rail is planned to be put back into use (Which I do not oppose).


  • #2129
    gingernut79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭gingernut79


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    I would also point out that lack of reporting on them nationally means I cant update the map as I wont know when something is done... :confused:

    Royal Canal Greenway complete Maynooth to Longford, and some of the Dublin sections


  • #2130
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,947 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    gingernut79 wrote: »
    Royal Canal Greenway complete Maynooth to Longford, and some of the Dublin sections

    What I don't understand about that is why part of the greenway between Maynooth and Confey (close to Intel) has been done. It seems fairly random.


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  • #2131
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,722 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    part of the greenway ... (close to Intel) has been done.
    Might this be the answer?


  • #2132
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,722 ✭✭✭serfboard


    marno21 wrote: »
    It would also see the completion of the Rathkeale-Tralee section of rail line.
    To expand that a bit further - by the time Listowel->Tralee is done, there will be a complete Greenway all the way to Fenit.

    Prompting those getting on at Rathkeale to sing to themselves: "By the time I get to Fenit ..."


  • #2133
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,588 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    serfboard wrote: »
    Might this be the answer?

    Partially. In two senses - there's still a gap! It's passable obviously but not ideal for cycle commuting even though this does happen


  • #2134
    Heartbreak Hank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Heartbreak Hank


    gingernut79 wrote: »
    Royal Canal Greenway complete Maynooth to Longford, and some of the Dublin sections


    What do they mean by "surfacing"? Is it quarry dust all the way or is there a sealed surface?


  • #2135
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Heartbreak Hank wrote: »
    What do they mean by "surfacing"? Is it quarry dust all the way or is there a sealed surface?

    Have cycled Maynooth to Mullingar, a mix of surfaces between sealed, quarry dust and very quiet rural roads, but at least for that section zero places a standard road bike would struggle.

    There are a small number of barriers along the route, no kissing gates that I remember thankfully, but a few that a cargo bike or specialised bike/handcycle might struggle with. A key criteria of a good greenway going forward will need to be good permeability for all non-motorised vehicles.


  • #2136
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,947 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    serfboard wrote: »
    Might this be the answer?

    Nope. Hence the question.


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  • #2137
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    To my knowledge, Intel contributed towards the Louisa Bridge - Cope Bridge (Confey) section. I'm not sure if they contributed towards the Maynooth to Louisa Bridge section. Most of this is poor quality. There is some at the Maynooth end which is ok - did Tesco contribute here?


  • #2138
    Grassey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/1174d-review-of-western-rail-corridor-phases-2-and-3-athenry-to-claremorris/

    Open door for QMG now....


  • #2139
    Caquas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Caquas


    The Midleton-Youghal Greenway may have yielded up the remains of a murder victim.

    First reports were vague but now the Gardai have an almost complete female skeleton with personal items which should make identification much easier.
    The discovery of further bones, yielding almost a complete skeleton, has now led gardaí to suspect they are dealing with the remains of a woman and a more recent death.


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/skeletal-remains-found-in-cork-may-be-of-female-who-died-in-recent-years-39947344.html


  • #2140
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Judicial Review taken against the South Kerry Greenway by Peter Sweetman

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0113/1189533-kerry-greenway/

    The slugs will have the Iveragh Peninsula to themselves the way things are going.


  • #2141
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,722 ✭✭✭serfboard


    marno21 wrote: »
    Judicial Review taken against the South Kerry Greenway by Peter Sweetman

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0113/1189533-kerry-greenway/

    The slugs will have the Iveragh Peninsula to themselves the way things are going.
    RTE wrote:
    The applications for permission to bring the challenges were transferred to the High Court's strategic infrastructure development and commercial planning list, which is managed by Mr Justice Richard Humphreys.
    This is interesting - I didn't know it existed. Makes sense to have a part of the High Court which specialises in cases involving infrastructure development.

    I'm sure Mr. Sweetman knows it very well!

    Edit: I see that the first case was brought in 2018. The article also gives an explainer of what the list is:
    The Strategic Infrastructure Development (SID) list is a new High Court list which was set up to 'fast-track' judicial reviews of permissions granted directly by An Bord Pleanála for a development consent for an SID.

    Judicial review challenges to decisions of An Bord Pleanála frequently result in lengthy delays to the commencement of a development, and increased costs. The SID list was set up to provide a more expeditious route through the courts for SIDs which are, by their nature, of strategic national importance.


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  • #2142
    daniel_t1409
    Closed Accounts Posts: 366 ✭✭daniel_t1409


    Caquas wrote: »
    The Midleton-Youghal Greenway may have yielded up the remains of a murder victim.

    First reports were vague but now the Gardai have an almost complete female skeleton with personal items which should make identification much easier.



    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/skeletal-remains-found-in-cork-may-be-of-female-who-died-in-recent-years-39947344.html
    Another line that should be reopened as a railway.
    marno21 wrote: »
    Judicial Review taken against the South Kerry Greenway by Peter Sweetman

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0113/1189533-kerry-greenway/

    The slugs will have the Iveragh Peninsula to themselves the way things are going.
    Are the CPO's cutting the land in 2, or are they following boundaries? Perhaps the latter would not cause as much of a fuss.


  • #2143
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    daniel_t1409 wrote: »
    Another line that should be reopened as a railway.

    i think the ship has sailed on that one


  • #2144
    purplepanda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    marno21 wrote: »
    Judicial Review taken against the South Kerry Greenway by Peter Sweetman

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0113/1189533-kerry-greenway/

    The slugs will have the Iveragh Peninsula to themselves the way things are going.

    Many countries in Europe would reopen the Kerry Iveragh Peninsula railway as a tourist attraction.

    Instead we have Tourist Tour Buses & cars clogging up largely single lane regional roads, they also have to travel in the same direction to avoid not being able to pass each other on opposite sides of the road.

    I suppose those regional roads soon will be rebuilt & upgraded as dual carriageway sooner or later when the tourist numbers recover to their usual levels.

    Rebuilding the railway would reduce congested road traffic & avoid destroying one of Ireland's best scenic regions.


  • #2145
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    The landowners I can almost understand taking legal action, but the “environmentalist” seems like a real disingenuous chap of the “I’m pro-cycling but...” variety.


  • #2146
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Lads, could you please leave off the more nonsensical rail talk in the greenway threads? It is tiresome.

    There is absolutely no possibility that a "tiny piece of the Ring of Kerry" railway would take cars or buses off the Ring of Kerry. It will not happen. It's not realistic. It is parallel universe thinking. It would attract cars, at best. If you want a novelty railway, focus on Tralee.

    And we've done the rail line to Youghal to absolute death at this point.
    It won't happen without an SDZ at Mogeely at a minimum, and line ownership is still with IÉ.
    In Cork we currently need a station in Carrigtohill West, Dunkettle P&R, Kilbarry, Waterrock, which would all make Youghal more viable.

    If you're pro-railway don't advocate for "white elephant" railway projects. It makes your arguments look disingenuous at best, and obstructive at worst. Loads of noise about fantasy projects and nothing about the viable rail projects. There's a rail forum for that.
    If you don't like infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists that's fine but stop protesting about the economic viability of legacy rural rail.


  • #2147
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,408 ✭✭✭plodder


    marno21 wrote: »
    Judicial Review taken against the South Kerry Greenway by Peter Sweetman

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0113/1189533-kerry-greenway/

    The slugs will have the Iveragh Peninsula to themselves the way things are going.
    I'd love to know what his grand plan is. What kind of 'environmentalist' opposes greenways and wind-farms?


  • #2148
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,816 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    plodder wrote: »
    I'd love to know what his grand plan is. What kind of 'environmentalist' opposes greenways and wind-farms?

    In fairness it is important to have his viewpoint there. If it was a deer or another more visible animal people would be quicker to object.

    But as it is a snail people think it is not important. It is only in recent years we have seen how important earthworms are to soil drainage and fertility etc. So it is no harm to have it brought to attention.

    I wouldn't imagine a greenway would do too much harm to their habitat but who knows. There certainly will be plenty of benefits to wildlife if it opens up, acting as a corridor for various species.


  • #2149
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Mr Sweetman is highly focused on environmental legal protection as a rule, you will find him objecting to most major projects on an environmental basis. I have to admire his tenacity, and I certainly think the government should have their feet held to the fire to ensure they follow EU and their own regulations regarding the environment. It does wear on you when its a cause you are in favour of but I personally don't begrudge him.

    I think the big problem is the 'local abandoned railway' is a far more emotive topic than actual railway improvement. Its better to be able to say "The line our grandfathers took to work should be reinstated", than "A section of the line our Grandfathers took to work that's still in use should be resignalled and the ballast upgraded".

    There is an element of short termism or pure localism in it also, focusing on trying to reopen a line closed for a good financial reason instead of the slower process of fixing the bottlenecks that made it unviable in the first place or getting good numbers on the existing stub of their route (e.g. Cork to Youghal) in order to easier sell an actual restoration of service.
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    In fairness it is important to have his viewpoint there. If it was a deer or another more visible animal people would be quicker to object.

    But as it is a snail people think it is not important. It is only in recent years we have seen how important earthworms are to soil drainage and fertility etc. So it is no harm to have it brought to attention.

    I wouldn't imagine a greenway would do too much harm to their habitat but who kmows. There certainly will be plenty of benefits to wildlife if it opens up, acting as a corridor for various species.

    I think the Council have a good standing for that particular case, they already explicitly dropped two sections from the application that couldn't be justified environmentally at present so I would expect they have taken great care on that front.

    The second case is the more interesting as it is the one that will set a precedent either way as to whether local/national governments can use CPO for greenway routes.


  • #2150
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,408 ✭✭✭plodder


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    Mr Sweetman is highly focused on environmental legal protection as a rule, you will find him objecting to most major projects on an environmental basis.
    While I don't know the details of this issue, you'd question what negative impact a greenway would have. But, what's his beef with offshore windfarms? What's his alternative plan for cutting CO2 emissions? Some compromises have to be made surely?
    I have to admire his tenacity,
    I don't. I think we are far too tolerant of serial litigants of this nature. We have a planning system that takes public input, and a separate appeals system which people can engage with at almost no cost or risk to themselves. If they go to court and lose they should have costs awarded against in my opinion, except in really exceptional cases.
    and I certainly think the government should have their feet held to the fire to ensure they follow EU and their own regulations regarding the environment. It does wear on you when its a cause you are in favour of but I personally don't begrudge him.
    Not saying it applies in this case, but it's too easy for litigants to delay important projects with groundless appeals, that end up failing. Environmental concerns and the scope of what could possibly go into an EIS is so broad, it seems to be possible to delay any project basically.

    I was wondering about another project (a trans atlantic fibre cable) recently that should have been completed. Looked into it, and lo and behold it was stopped by a fisherman from Clare Island, literally as workers were waiting to do the final stage of bringing the cable onshore. Link The same cable was going on to Denmark and Norway and I assume it is finished now. I wonder if those countries (Denmark particularly as an EU member) were subject to the same kind of dubious concern for dolphins and brent geese.
    I think the big problem is the 'local abandoned railway' is a far more emotive topic than actual railway improvement. Its better to be able to say "The line our grandfathers took to work should be reinstated", than "A section of the line our Grandfathers took to work that's still in use should be resignalled and the ballast upgraded".

    There is an element of short termism or pure localism in it also, focusing on trying to reopen a line closed for a good financial reason instead of the slower process of fixing the bottlenecks that made it unviable in the first place or getting good numbers on the existing stub of their route (e.g. Cork to Youghal) in order to easier sell an actual restoration of service.



    I think the Council have a good standing for that particular case, they already explicitly dropped two sections from the application that couldn't be justified environmentally at present so I would expect they have taken great care on that front.

    The second case is the more interesting as it is the one that will set a precedent either way as to whether local/national governments can use CPO for greenway routes.
    I wouldn't have an issue with that second case at all. The landowners are directly affected and it is a significant legal issue (as opposed to questionable environmental concern).


  • #2151
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    While I'm disappointed to see the cases being taken, to try to paint this as an issue with Mr. Sweetman is unfair.

    For the last decade he has held the govt to account for each and every breach of environmental regulations. The regulations are there, the govt has signed up to follow them, he is making sure they do.

    He only lodges cases when there is a breach of some kind or inadequate assessments carried out. His list of successes against multiple parties would indicate the issue is not with him but rather with those who do not wish to follow the rules that are there to protect the environment.


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