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Should we stop bullying the United Kingdom?

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Comments

  • #552
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,566 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    I was only thinking.

    Theresa May, as we know, is wooden.

    The UK political process has ground to a halt.

    Maybe a more wheeler dealer UK taoiseach is needed, someone with a bit of flexibility who can grease the wheels a little and keep things moving.

    I can only imagine how Bertie would have negotiated this given a half-dodgy chance.

    Bertie wouldn't have been stupid enough to call a dodgy referendum to placate fanatical parasites. He's have rightly told his Eurosceptics where to go if he had any.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #553
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Bertie wouldn't have been stupid enough to call a dodgy referendum to placate fanatical parasites. He's have rightly told his Eurosceptics where to go if he had any.

    In which case let me give you the more sober Brian Cowan (forgive the irony) shtick of "we are where we are"


  • #554
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    In which case let me give you the more sober Brian Cowan (forgive the irony) shtick of "we are where we are"

    TBH even if Eamon Gilmore were Taoiseach you still would never have had such a stupid referendum.


  • #555
    mickoneill31
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭mickoneill31


    When you look at the way the British parties are and the FPTP system I think we can see something that exacerbates the problem.
    You can people with left wing ideologies and other with right wing ones in the same party. So Theresa is left with a section of the party that are ERG and people who lean a little bit more to the left. She's trying to keep them all happy. That's not possible.
    Same with Labour. Most of the party are leaning one way but Jeremy and a select few are leaning another. That should really be two parties but if they did that, with FPTP they'd never be elected again.

    In our system we have more parties and if people have one particular ideology they can find a party that fits them. So people know what they're voting for. Then if coalitions are formed you determine a programme for government and work towards that goal. I used to think our system was complicated and meant we'd always have confused governements. It is and we do. But after seeing the UK system in action for the last few years I think ours is great now :)


  • #556
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Bertie wouldn't have been stupid enough to call a dodgy referendum to placate fanatical parasites. He's have rightly told his Eurosceptics where to go if he had any.
    He's have done what any party here would do, make them put up or walk. Euroscepticism is not a thing in Ireland.


  • #557
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    is_that_so wrote: »
    TBH even if Eamon Gilmore were Taoiseach you still would never have had such a stupid referendum.

    The referendum isn't up for debate unfortunately.

    Who'd dare Italy to call a similar referendum just for the craic?


  • #558
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    The referendum isn't up for debate unfortunately.

    Who'd dare Italy to call a similar referendum just for the craic?

    Well I'd buy a lotto ticket sooner. Be more confident of the outcome.


  • #559
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Well I'd buy a lotto ticket sooner. Be more confident of the outcome.

    Better ignore this so.

    https://www.thelocal.it/20181017/italy-eu-eurosceptic-italexit-brexit


  • #560
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    Better ignore this so.

    https://www.thelocal.it/20181017/italy-eu-eurosceptic-italexit-brexit

    Poll questions are just that, a question in time. Answer really means very little when you have nearly a third undecided.


  • #561
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Poll questions are just that, a question in time. Answer really means very little when you have nearly a third undecided.

    Fair enough but I personally wouldn't brush a survey like that under the carpet.

    Sure we in Ireland are very happy with the EU but I'd acknowledge that all is not rosy in the garden for everyone and far from it in Italy's case.


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  • #562
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    Fair enough but I personally wouldn't brush a survey like that under the carpet.

    Sure we in Ireland are very happy with the EU but I'd acknowledge that all is not rosy in the garden for everyone and far from it in Italy's case.

    Italians just want a properly functioning country. They've been waiting since 1945! A little bit of real political reform would go some part of the way.


  • #563
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    They've done a trade deal with the Faroe Islands!!!


    The UK buy a third of the Faroeses exports, imports from the UK are only 3% of that. A case where "they need us more than we need them" actually makes sense.

    Also May's government is dependant on the 8 or so East coast Scottish Tory MP's who got elected on the basis of fishing. So if there ever was a case of getting tough for political reasons this is it.


    Needless to say, because this is Brexit,
    the deal means that Scottish boats are banned from Faroese waters
    but the Faroe Islanders can catch fish in Scottish waters to sell back to Scotland.


    And it's probably only going to cost the Tories a majority in the next election.


  • #564
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    I'm imagining the stops Bertie would pull to buy off the opposition in these Brexit votes.

    I think Theresa May has notions of honour or something like that when it comes to negotiating. See how far that's got her.

    From the Guardian:

    "A national change of heart on the whole Brexit business would still be welcome in Brussels but it is not expected, and the priority is to escort a troublesome ex-member off the premises with a minimum of disruption before those MEP ballots get under way.

    Does May like this plan? It doesn’t matter. She wasn’t in the room where it happened. The summit conclusions were handed down to the petitioning nation as it paced around an antechamber. This is the power relationship between a “third country” and the EU. Britain had better get used to it.

    The terms of the extension are not drafted for the prime minister’s benefit. They contain a message from the EU direct to the House of Commons. In crude terms: piss or get off the pot. If you want to leave with a deal, vote for the damned deal. If you are foolish enough to leave without a deal, do not blame us. Have a couple more weeks to think about it. But if you want something else, a referendum or a softer Brexit, work it out soon. And then send someone who isn’t Theresa May to talk to us about it."


  • #565
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,690 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    Fair enough but I personally wouldn't brush a survey like that under the carpet.
    Neither would I. It shows that support for "Remain" is twice as high as support for "Leave".

    Note that the poll was taken about six months ago, and it's sometimes cited as one of the reasons why Italian populist parties have pivotted away from Italexit, and towards a position of calling for EU reforms.
    is_that_so wrote: »
    Italians just want a properly functioning country. They've been waiting since 1945! A little bit of real political reform would go some part of the way.
    Hardly fair. Italy since 1945 has on the whole been a much more successful country than, say, oh, the UK. The politics are Byzantine, I agree, but somehow they work, in terms of delivering social and economic progress.


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