Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 02-07-2019 4:32pm

20Cent wrote: »

Doubt antifa care much about PR.

"Being nice" never really worked against nazis in the past.

Was the gay Asian lad really a Nazi though? That gets to he heart of the matter.

o1s1n · 02-07-2019 4:32pm

klaaaz wrote: »

The fella punched in that famous video is an self proclaimed American Nazi. American's fought Nazism in WWII and they don't like Nazis on their home soil.

Fairly sure the lad who punched him didn't land on Normandy...

Boxing.Fan · 02-07-2019 4:33pm

20Cent wrote: »

Doubt antifa care much about PR.

"Being nice" never really worked against nazis in the past.

What would you suggest is a good way of dealing with these modern day nazis?

Boxing.Fan · 02-07-2019 4:35pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Fairly sure the lad who punched him didn't land on Normandy...

I'd say hes never even heard of Normandy.

Billy Mays · 02-07-2019 4:36pm

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

I dont know B are you? Do you condemn the violence of Antifa and the incident in particular with the sucker punch?

The violence commited on Ngo, yes. A piece of neo Nazi sh!t like Spencer, not a chance. I'd have been quite happy to see the fella stick the boot in on him aswell

Boxing.Fan · 02-07-2019 4:36pm

Billy Mays wrote: »

The violence commited on Ngo, yes. A piece of neo Nazi sh!t like Spencer, not a chance. I'd have been quite happy to see the fella stick the boot in on him aswell

I admire your honesty. Truly.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 02-07-2019 4:41pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Fairly sure the lad who punched him didn't land on Normandy...

Fairly sure everybody who did land on the beaches would be Nazis in modern discourse. The US was a legally racist state.

That’s why this thing is so ahistorical.

The other problem with the American left is while they are fighting phantoms in the US, Yemeni children are dying.

klaaaz · 02-07-2019 4:42pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Fairly sure the lad who punched him didn't land on Normandy...

Oh we have comedian. Nazism in America are a tiny minority these days. As for their evangelical conservative cousins in the alt-right, they're trying to grow and use violence against anyone of any race who is not far right.

The Proud Boys are the latest aggressive front in their battle and one of their targets is lgbt people which you agree should not have violence directed at them?

James Brown · 02-07-2019 4:44pm

o1s1n wrote: »

How did you get;

From

?????

From

Will I Am Not wrote: »

All this “punch a nazi” and “bash the fasch” stuff doesn’t sit well in a time where the definition of nazi and fascist has expanded to a point where they have lost all meaning.

While those terms have certainly not 'lost all meaning' it helps the cause of the ALT-Right and white supremacists to water down and dismiss such labels, especially if they themselves are being called out as such. For example, 'John is a racist'. 'Yeah, but he's probably a nice guy, because what does 'racist' even mean anymore?'. This is the goal.

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

This lad was a gay Asian beaten up by a few masked whites.

He might well be conservative of course. Or even fairly right wing. Maybe a bit of a chauvinist. He’s hardly a white supremacist.

Of course if you describe any ideological enemy as a fascist or white supremacist then it gives you the right to attack anybody.

I’d like to see the energy that the anti fan put into fighting phantoms go into fighting the US war machine.

Wasn't commenting on a particular attack. Was responding to the comment. For the greater public it is that straightforward and simplistic. I'd guess that's why the white supremacists get more bad press than Antifa.

Chris_Heilong · 02-07-2019 4:45pm

They are an extremist group and I am surprised anyone would make excuses for them or just choose not to report on their actions just because there is an idea that they belong to the same political "tribe". All extremes need to be weeded out IMO. I saw one video where they were illegally directing traffic in portland and when someone refused to follow orders an Antifa member started saying "hey whitey, you better get out of here whitey!" now all you have to do is change "whitey" for jew and you can see the comparison to the WW2 villains.

Danzy · 02-07-2019 4:47pm

Will I Am Not wrote: »

All this “punch a nazi” and “bash the fasch” stuff doesn’t sit well in a time where the definition of nazi and fascist has expanded to a point where they have lost all meaning.

We have to pretend Antifa etc, most of the modern Left are representative of the working class or even in touch with them, rather than a manifestation of the upper Middle Class.

Generally the Left of today are no reflection of nor related to the Left, of the past.

Why not pretend the gay Vietnamese guy is a KKK lover, the old Jews of Brighton are plotting against Corbyn at Israel's command etc etc.

Kimsang · 02-07-2019 4:53pm

Brian? wrote: »

Antifa have terrible PR. They are constantly, and often rightly, vilified by the media.

I don't know if you are deliberately avoiding the elephant in the room here,
But yes Antifa are villified by the media; Only right-wing media.

Can you prove me wrong, and point me to where left-wing media villify Antifa ? - Ta

20Cent · 02-07-2019 4:54pm

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Was the gay Asian lad really a Nazi though? That gets to he heart of the matter.

He was marching with nazis, released articles doxing people and claiming many journalists are antifa. These journalists subsequently got death threats from nazi groups. At the very least he is sympathetic.

Venom · 02-07-2019 4:57pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

They are an extremist group and I am surprised anyone would make excuses for them or just choose not to report on their actions just because there is an idea that they belong to the same political "tribe". All extremes need to be weeded out IMO. I saw one video where they were illegally directing traffic in portland and when someone refused to follow orders an Antifa member started saying "hey whitey, you better get out of here whitey!" now all you have to do is change "whitey" for jew and you can see the comparison to the WW2 villains.

Oh their mask slips quite easily

calling a black guy an uncle tom is so weird from a group that is supposed to be against racism!

Calhoun · 02-07-2019 4:59pm

20Cent wrote: »

Doubt antifa care much about PR.

"Being nice" never really worked against nazis in the past.

That is there weakness as there is a risk of being the thing they hate but also having your message not only drowned out but twisted to paint you as the villain.

If the right is really a new phase of Nazism in America the left would do well to remember what happened to the communist in Germany.

James Brown · 02-07-2019 5:01pm

Danzy wrote: »

We have to pretend Antifa etc, most of the modern Left are representative of the working class or even in touch with them, rather than a manifestation of the upper Middle Class.

The Left of today are no reflection of nor related to the Left, of the past.

Why not pretend the gay Vietnamese guy is a KKK lover, the old Jews of Brighton are plotting against Corbyn at Israel's command etc etc.

That's broad brush talk TBF. I wouldn't equate anyone concerned with immigration or pro Brexit with white supremacy. The vast majoritry of people would be middle right and middle left. Wanting equality and a higher working wage is often dismissed as being associated with PBP and the like, just as anyone being upper middle class isn't allowed advocate for such things for some reason. That's the traditional stick used against anyone looking out for things beyond themselves. I mean you can't knock an upper middle class right winger for being selfish.
For me it all boils down to the trend of the wealthy and their lackeys, (willing or unaware) to fight against anything that takes a little of the have away from the haves. It's a massive international PR campaign.
What we are left with on the fringes are f***wits fighting for corporates and others in Antifa and the like thinking they can do justice by going down to their level.
The ALT-Right and Antifa are symptoms of this PR campaign to make the white wealthy corporates look like the underdogs. IMO.
For example corporate america screws the Americans so it's great to have build a wall and the like to blame while they keep power, not that the Liberals are much better. In Ireland trade Mexicans for people pretending to be homeless to get a forever home near their Ma.

SnakePlissken · 02-07-2019 5:02pm

klaaaz wrote: »

The Proud Boys are the latest aggressive front in their battle and one of their targets is lgbt people

Would you like to cite some reputable sources to back up this claim of yours?

It is interesting how the NY Post has written about the rising accounts of homophobic attacks in Portland which, when investigated, later transpired to be malicious hoaxes created by Antifa and it's acolytes as means to discredit groups such as The Proud Boys as homophobic... now I'm sure this isn't what a poster of such repute as yourself is trying to do here.

https://nypost.com/2019/03/30/inside-the-suspicious-rise-of-gay-hate-crimes-in-portland/

I find it absolutely despicable how those on the Far Left claim to be advocates of LGTB equality when they are so quick to use physical violence on LGTB members who might step out of line.

Danzy · 02-07-2019 5:03pm

Calhoun wrote: »

If the right is really a new phase of Nazism in America the left would do well to remember what happened to the communist in Germany.

They'll join up with the Nazis again, invade Poland, exterminate communities and fall out once more because they are so similar?

I could see the ANTIFA types going for that, Trots as well but that is about it.

Calhoun · 02-07-2019 5:03pm

Venom wrote: »

calling a black guy an uncle tom is so weird from a group that is supposed to be against racism!

What we are seeing is its less about general human rights but has descended into tribalism us versus them.

All you have to do is disagree with the rhetoric to become a target.

notobtuse · 02-07-2019 5:05pm

Municipalities should enact anti-masking laws. They’ve long existed in the South as a check on KKK violence. It would make it easier for police to identify and arrest criminals. Unmask Antifa and I think the cowards will retreat. Also an investigation into the Mayor’s actions, and what the police dictate by the mayor was, should take place.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 02-07-2019 5:11pm

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

I admire your honesty. Truly.

I’m not too concerned about Spencer either, except perhaps that it cheapens the general discourse.

SnakePlissken · 02-07-2019 5:14pm

20Cent wrote: »

He was marching with nazis.

No he wasn't.

20Cent wrote: »

released articles doxing people

No, he didn't.

You attempting to vilify a gay Asian who was attacked in broad daylight by a horde of masked white men is quite frankly disturbing.

JohnnyFlash · 02-07-2019 5:17pm

I always get the impression that these antifa guys and proud boys are really ineffectual dweebs who are coming to the realisation that they are ugly, stupid, and won’t be having a positive influence on the world. Proper losers with anger issues.

BloodBath · 02-07-2019 5:17pm

20Cent wrote: »

Doubt antifa care much about PR.

"Being nice" never really worked against nazis in the past.

You're a total hypocrite. You condone violence and cowardice by 1 side while labelling the other side Nazi.

It's idiots like you that are the problem on both sides. You don't know history. You don't know that the far left is just as bad as the far right.

You just buy into this divisive bull**** narrative that in your eyes makes it ok to label and physically attack people you disagree with. Guess what? You're the ****ing Nazi.

Seanachai · 02-07-2019 5:24pm

o1s1n wrote: »

How did you get;

From

?????

Why does one have to come from the other? I don't think Antifa do thorough background checks on all the people they assault. Anybody that doesn't look like they do is pretty much fair game in their eyes. They often decide who is discriminating based on race, gender etc having no prior knowledge of their victims.

They shouldn't be shocked then if their counterparts attack them using the deciding that they're a Bolshevik threat to society.

Danzy · 02-07-2019 5:25pm

SnakePlissken wrote: »

No he wasn't.

No, he didn't.

You attempting to vilify a gay Asian who was attacked in broad daylight by a horde of masked white men is quite frankly disturbing.

To people like 20 cent, Ngo is a jumped up **** who went to the wrong University, only got there because he got a scholarship, his boat people family couldn't pay.

He is LGBT but doesn't conform to a modern left wing perspective, he'll gets stick for that, not from other gay people but from many in the modern Left.

He is Asian, which in the modern radical American Left can be a problem.

20Cent · 02-07-2019 5:26pm

BloodBath wrote: »

You're a total hypocrite. You condone violence and cowardice by 1 side while labelling the other side Nazi.

It's idiots like you that are the problem on both sides. You don't know history. You don't know that the far left is just as bad as the far right.

You just buy into this divisive bull**** narrative that in your eyes makes it ok to label and physically attack people you disagree with. Guess what? You're the ****ing Nazi.

Hilarious.

BloodBath · 02-07-2019 5:28pm

20Cent wrote: »

Hilarious.

Yeah. I'm not the 1 condoning violence by a terrorist group.

the world wonders · 02-07-2019 5:28pm

not the first time this sort of thing has happened, Anti-fascists murder peaceful journalist in Germany

klaaaz · 02-07-2019 5:29pm

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Would you like to cite some reputable sources to back up this claim of yours?

It is interesting how the NY Post has written about the rising accounts of homophobic attacks in Portland which, when investigated, later transpired to be malicious hoaxes created by Antifa and it's acolytes as means to discredit groups such as The Proud Boys as homophobic... now I'm sure this isn't what a poster of such repute as yourself is trying to do here.

https://nypost.com/2019/03/30/inside-the-suspicious-rise-of-gay-hate-crimes-in-portland/

I find it absolutely despicable how those on the Far Left claim to be advocates of LGTB equality when they are so quick to use physical violence on LGTB members who might step out of line.

You article was written by the said conservative Andy Ngo! There goes your neutrality!

The Proud Boys which you're quick to defend are a homophobic hate group as well as hating other races and minorities in both USA and Canada, they are designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
They are also at the forefront of organising the so called Boston straight pride, they are also hate feminism and want women to be subservient to men. They are like a "street fight club" engaging in violence on their opponents to meet their political goal

But you knew all that with your fine reputation!

20Cent · 02-07-2019 5:29pm

BloodBath wrote: »

Yeah. I'm not the 1 condoning violence by a terrorist group.

If you think antifa are violent wait till you hear what the far right have been up to.

BloodBath · 02-07-2019 5:32pm

20Cent wrote: »

If you think antifa are violent wait till you hear what the far right have been up to.

I'm not condoning either side. I find them both disgusting. It's this kind of radical bull**** that needs to be stamped out before it get's totally out of hand.

Taking sides is not the solution to that.

This kind of push from the far left or far right only leads to more radicals pushing back. Can most of us get back near the centre where we can talk like adults without labelling each other and associating each other with groups like these.

Hedgelayer · 02-07-2019 5:36pm

Every time I see something like the original post, it reminds me of the ilk who support antifa, or the Sjw liberals

Usually small barrel shaped people who have purple hair or skinny guys with stupid haircuts.

They're never healthy looking, don't work because they're safe space could be infiltrated...

They cry a lot and frequently have to go to rehab for drink or drug addiction.

They hijack minorities, and fill their heads with sh1t about how they should feel bad about themselves and rise up...

You'll always see a nasty barrel type of person at the forefront....

Twiggly puff types of ilk

Imagine dating a liberal man or woman, you'd be constantly walking on eggshells and fear a mental breakdown at least once a week...

Probably blaming Trump for everything...

Outlaw Pete · 02-07-2019 5:37pm

20Cent wrote: »

If you think antifa are violent wait till you hear what the far right have been up to.

You can chew gum and walk at the same time. Condemning one side is not an endorsement of the other.

There are multiple episodes now of them instigating violence, splitting people open that were not attacking them.

notobtuse · 02-07-2019 5:38pm

20Cent wrote: »

If you think antifa are violent wait till you hear what the far right have been up to.

What are they up to? You have some inside information?

Hedgelayer · 02-07-2019 5:41pm

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm not condoning either side. I find them both disgusting. It's this kind of radical bull**** that needs to be stamped out before it get's totally out of hand.

Taking sides is not the solution to that.

This kind of push from the far left or far right only leads to more radicals pushing back. Can most of us get back near the centre where we can talk like adults without labelling each other and associating each other with groups like these.

Well you've probably got normal people in the middle and they're getting on with their every day lives and the extreme right and left are a million miles away from where they're at.

20Cent · 02-07-2019 5:43pm

notobtuse wrote: »

What are they up to? You have some inside information?

Mass murder:
Theres a chart.on this page.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/03/world/white-extremist-terrorism-christchurch.html

notobtuse · 02-07-2019 5:48pm

20Cent wrote: »

Mass murder:
Theres a chart.on this page.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/03/world/white-extremist-terrorism-christchurch.html

Seems to be mostly single nut cases history in the US. Not some organized effort by right wing groups as you imply. Got anything better?

Boxing.Fan · 02-07-2019 5:49pm

20Cent wrote: »

Mass murder:
Theres a chart.on this page.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/03/world/white-extremist-terrorism-christchurch.html

Mentally ill, lone wolf

BloodBath · 02-07-2019 5:50pm

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Well you've probably got normal people in the middle and they're getting on with their every day lives and the extreme right and left are a million miles away from where they're at.

It's just the usual social engineering of divide and conquer spreading from the US like a virus. Get us all to fight each other while we ignore the real issues.

20Cent · 02-07-2019 5:51pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Seems to be mostly single nut cases history in the US. Not some organized effort by right wing groups as you imply. Got anything better?

The article is literally about how they are connected and in contact with each other.

Will I Am Not · 02-07-2019 5:53pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's the trendy line used by the likes of Morrissey and other racist apologists.

If you don't like someone because of their race, ethnicity, religion, skin colour and are happy for them to have violence put upon them and/or be discriminated against based on those differences, then IMO, you would fall into one of those categories.

Yeah, that’s the base it has expanded from.

notobtuse · 02-07-2019 5:54pm

20Cent wrote: »

The article is literally about how they are connected and in contact with each other.

Not much 'connected' in the US, which is what I commented on, in your article.

Kimsang · 02-07-2019 5:54pm

klaaaz wrote: »

You article was written by the said conservative Andy Ngo! There goes your neutrality!

The Proud Boys which you're quick to defend are a homophobic hate group as well as hating other races and minorities in both USA and Canada, they are designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
They are also at the forefront of organising the so called Boston straight pride, they are also hate feminism and want women to be subservient to men. They are like a "street fight club" engaging in violence on their opponents to meet their political goal

But you knew all that with your fine reputation!

Utterly awash with hypocrisy. Andy Ngo is a journalist for a centrist magazine, Quillette, and a brave one at that.

You don't seem to understand what's happening in Portland.

Could you explain while both Proud Boys and Antifa are designated as hateful groups, only one is banned from twitter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMAStj8Jtks

Maajid Nawaz was also designated a far-right anti-Muslim extremist by the SPLC, and successfully sued them and won recently.

Calhoun · 02-07-2019 5:56pm

Be interesting to see if they get unmasking laws in place how many of them keep it up. I can see something like this happening at some point for now though they serve a purpose to the right and to the left.

As for the "white extremists" which is interesting on one level as it would be interesting to look at this analysis from the perspective of other cultures/relgions. I think the likes of ISIS ect would have them beat hands down.

What i don't get however is why would you want to associate yourself with a violent group after seeing what other individuals/groups do. In the game of escalation you will end up becoming the thing you hate.

Boggles · 02-07-2019 5:58pm

Kimsang wrote: »

Utterly awash with hypocrisy. Andy Ngo is a journalist for a centrist magazine, Quillette, and a brave one at that.

Really?, I had a look at it today, looks like an amateur wordpress blog and that's being kind.

Do actual journalists grift for donations?

Have you a sample of his brave work I can read?

Kimsang · 02-07-2019 6:05pm

Boggles wrote: »

Really?, I had a look at it today, looks like an amateur wordpress blog and that's being kind.

Do actual journalists grift for donations?

Have you a sample of his brave work I can read?

A Racial Shakedown in Portland
-Andy Ngo
This is the top comment on that page from a reader:

As a fellow Portlander, thanks for bringing light to this nonsense. Being continuously aware of who ought to be shamed and what to be outraged about are the primary social currencies here. Good people are hurt all the time on social media in Portland by these mobs. They won’t listen to reason, and if you tell another side of a story you’re immediately accused of “gaslighting.” Never fails.

Take your pick of articles here

Could you answer for me; while both Antifa and Proud boys are both designated hateful groups, only one is banned from twitter?

Also why the left only criticize proud boys, while the right criticize both?

02-07-2019 6:05pm

jesus ****ing christ lads

if you cant condemn vigilante violence

*from any side*

without b-b-b-utting

you are the problem

peddlelies · 02-07-2019 6:06pm

First off, the Proud boys should be vilified as much as antifa and I have no problem with them being labeled domestic terrorists or whatever term it might be. They included mandatory violence and arrests as part of their doctrine.

That said, the SPLC have little to no credibility these days. They designated people like Maajid Nawaz of Quilliam and Ayaan Hirsi Ali as anti Muslim extremists and regularly give similar labels to moderate Christian groups. They are a left wing fundraising machine posing as some charitable cause.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/22/us/splc-richard-cohen-resigns.html

"On March 14, a group of employees wrote to the center’s leaders and warned that “allegations of mistreatment, sexual harassment, gender discrimination and racism threaten the moral authority of this organization and our integrity along with it.”

After the center announced that it had fired Morris Dees, its charismatic co-founder, for misconduct, another group of employees sent a separate letter accusing the center’s leadership of being “complicit in decades of racial discrimination, gender discrimination, and sexual harassment and/or assault.”

klaaaz · 02-07-2019 6:06pm

Kimsang wrote: »

Utterly awash with hypocrisy. Andy Ngo is a journalist for a centrist magazine, Quillette, and a brave one at that.

You don't seem to understand what's happening in Portland.

Could you explain while both Proud Boys and Antifa are designated as hateful groups, only one is banned from twitter?

Andy Ngo has had his medical bills paid for by prominent conservatives over there.

You don't understand Portland. Racists have already murdered people there in that city hence the tensions and we have the marches from the far right trying to intimidate local people who don't fit their pure vision of a society. Of course the authorities in the Trump era should not allow far right groups to march in the first place which means the likes of antifa would not react to them.

Ask the private company Twitter on their policy, you can protest like Gemma O'Doherty if you like outside their hq in Dublin, assuming you live in Ireland.

Kimsang wrote: »

Maajid Nawaz was also designated a far-right anti-Muslim extremist by the SPLC, and successfully sued them and won recently.

An individual mistake, pretty rare. Now, where is your condemnation of the Proud boys?

Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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