Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
05-05-2018, 22:41   #46
The Black Oil
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,820
LSR paces don't concern me, really. Execution is possibly where I run into issues as I usually still have too much energy after finishing from not going for it. Miles 14, 21-23 are what I didn't enjoy last year, if Garmin's anything to go by.

I'm a little reluctant to post in this thread as I'll probably just line up with the 4:10s again, though we've a few months to go. Then there's the assigned wave thing too.
The Black Oil is offline  
Advertisement
06-05-2018, 00:06   #47
Lazare
Registered User
 
Lazare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomplamousse View Post
Great thread idea. I'm planning on going for sub-4 in Dublin this year. Attempted sub-4 for the only marathon I've run, DCM 2016, and I faded badly around mile 16ish. Crawled home in 4:19:22.
May I ask what your pacing strat was for that one?

And what was your half time in 2016?
Lazare is online now  
06-05-2018, 11:19   #48
Pomplamousse
Registered User
 
Pomplamousse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazare View Post
May I ask what your pacing strat was for that one?

And what was your half time in 2016?
Pacing strategy was even splits and think that was going alright until I faded. Unfortunately my Garmin went haywire before I had a chance to upload the run so I don't have any of the data I also came down with a cold and cough the week of the marathon and while I was feeling fine by marathon day, I've no idea if that did or didn't play a role in me fading.

The only half I had ever raced before DCM 2016 was in August 2015 and I did that in 1:56:34. I ran the Dublin Half marathon in September 2016, but decided to do it at marathon pace rather than race it, as I was worried about injury risk. Speeded up a bit towards the end as I still had loads of energy and did it in 1:57:15. I know I had a much better time in me had I been racing, but no idea what exactly time it would've been. Sorry that's not very helpful to you at all!
Pomplamousse is offline  
(2) thanks from:
06-05-2018, 11:46   #49
Murph_D
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,811
For what it’s worth, I did 4:02 in first marathon (2012) using one of the Higdon Novice plans. Had an 86-min 10 mile in the run-up but sub-4 was always going to be a stretch with the low mileage I was on - only around 25 miles a week. The plan had no speed or tempo, just the odd few miles at MP. A classic ‘get you around’ plan.

The following year, the meno plan was introduced as he was mentoring the 2012 graduates. I ran 3:47 in 2013 off that - a good mixture of speed, tempo, long, easy. And lots of advice about how to run them. I found it excellent, doing it at about 35-40 miles per week. Used it twice more, in fact, getting down to 3:29 by Cork 2015.

The key was not the day-to-day details of the plan itself, but rather its overall scope and structure: increased mileage, challenging sessions, long runs with added challenges (in and around MP, variable pace, etc). This all helps with learning to push yourself a little harder, run with discomfort, confidence - all those things you need to break through arbitrary barriers such as sub-4, sub-3:45, sub-3:30 etc. Some of it is mental, but the majority is just doing the work diligently, running at the right paces so your body makes the adaptations you need.

My old log at https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057009350 documents that first sub-4 training and marathon, if it’s of any interest to anyone.

Best of luck to anyone attempting. I’ve no doubt that almost anyone can do it with a bit of discipline, and of course you have to make the start line - sometimes the hardest challenge of all, especially earlier in your running career.

Last edited by Murph_D; 06-05-2018 at 23:34.
Murph_D is offline  
06-05-2018, 12:12   #50
Pomplamousse
Registered User
 
Pomplamousse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murph_D View Post
My old log at https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057009350 documents that first sub-4 training and marathon, if it’s of any interest to anyone.
That'll be really useful to have a read of, thanks!
Pomplamousse is offline  
Advertisement
06-05-2018, 13:03   #51
Lazare
Registered User
 
Lazare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomplamousse View Post
Pacing strategy was even splits and think that was going alright until I faded. Unfortunately my Garmin went haywire before I had a chance to upload the run so I don't have any of the data I also came down with a cold and cough the week of the marathon and while I was feeling fine by marathon day, I've no idea if that did or didn't play a role in me fading.

The only half I had ever raced before DCM 2016 was in August 2015 and I did that in 1:56:34. I ran the Dublin Half marathon in September 2016, but decided to do it at marathon pace rather than race it, as I was worried about injury risk. Speeded up a bit towards the end as I still had loads of energy and did it in 1:57:15. I know I had a much better time in me had I been racing, but no idea what exactly time it would've been. Sorry that's not very helpful to you at all!
I got some stellar course specific advice last year from a Dublin veteran, a 2:32 marathoner.

Basically, even splits are a bad idea.

The course is set up for a negative split, the Chapelizod hill for instance if ran too hard will end your race and you won't know about it for two hours.
He slows to almost walking up it.

I took all that on board and got a custom pace band.

I ran at about 4:12 pace until about mile 6 and slowly picked it up. 4 hour pacers were 2km ahead, I didn't catch them until Milltown.

I know for sure if I ran with them from the gun I would have ran about a 4:10 at best.

My half time is within 2 minutes of yours and I ran a 3:58 so with good pacing strat you will nail it.
Lazare is online now  
06-05-2018, 13:39   #52
The Black Oil
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,820
Our 2016 colleague has used the meno plan twice, afaik. I'll be going over his log too. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...p?t=2057692232

The note above about running with discomfort and confidence gives me some hope. Discipline's not usually an issue for me, but I'm a little concerned about misreading the notes and fupping up the meno. I'm starting the grads base plan this coming week, fourth time using it. I've a 10k coming up soon on the 20th of this month. Bit hazy on whether that's wise, anyway it's paid for. Due to finish the base around mid-June, I'll be on holidays (cycling) that weekend. Might get 1-2 runs in whilst away, but depends on the schedule and amount of free time. Looking at past efforts with the base, all weeks have been over 30 miles, mind you, with warm ups included my mileage looks a bit padded. After the holidays I'll probably redo a week or two of the base plan to keep myself ticking over. If I've read the meno plan right I'll be starting it around July 2nd or so. That's the rest of my year on the running front, for now.
The Black Oil is offline  
(2) thanks from:
06-05-2018, 14:16   #53
ewc78
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 256
Has anyone a link to this meno plan?
ewc78 is offline  
06-05-2018, 14:29   #54
The Black Oil
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,820
Meno plan
The Black Oil is offline  
(5) thanks from:
Advertisement
07-05-2018, 09:19   #55
ISOP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 282
4:13 in Limerick yesterday, which in the end I was happy with. Was absolutely cruising to mile 21 with the 4 hour pacer then the heat finally got me, my heart was pounding aswell which worried me a bit so pulled it back a bit, onwards and upwards
ISOP is offline  
07-05-2018, 13:05   #56
Kellygirl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISOP View Post
4:13 in Limerick yesterday, which in the end I was happy with. Was absolutely cruising to mile 21 with the 4 hour pacer then the heat finally got me, my heart was pounding aswell which worried me a bit so pulled it back a bit, onwards and upwards
Well done. The heat killed a lot of people yesterday. I saw 3 guys down on the NCR and Ennis Road.
Kellygirl is offline  
07-05-2018, 21:35   #57
The Black Oil
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,820
I spent some time looking through the first 6 weeks of meno plan, writing down a few notes. Jot down your MP, half MP, 3k, 5k, 10k paces and plan ahead for that block anyway. I feel more comfortable tackling it overall now.
The Black Oil is offline  
(2) thanks from:
07-05-2018, 23:10   #58
Burkie_Fi
Registered User
 
Burkie_Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 5
Joining this thread a bit late as a sub-4 is on my radar but I'm worried about my training for Cork. Did my first marathon in Dublin 2017 and ran a 4.04 quite comfortably. Started with the 4.20 pacer, bit boxed in for the first half but that pace saved me for the final 6 miles. Training is no where near the same level because I haven't given myself a huge amount of time. I'm comfortably doing 19 milers in 3 hours but I went to 22 miles in training for DCM so I'm worried I'm running out of time. First time training alone as well so my head is being challenged a lot.
Only following my own make-uppy plan really! I should have logged in here sooner! How is everyone else doing?
Burkie_Fi is offline  
(2) thanks from:
08-05-2018, 00:00   #59
Murph_D
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burkie_Fi View Post
Joining this thread a bit late as a sub-4 is on my radar but I'm worried about my training for Cork. Did my first marathon in Dublin 2017 and ran a 4.04 quite comfortably. Started with the 4.20 pacer, bit boxed in for the first half but that pace saved me for the final 6 miles. Training is no where near the same level because I haven't given myself a huge amount of time. I'm comfortably doing 19 milers in 3 hours but I went to 22 miles in training for DCM so I'm worried I'm running out of time. First time training alone as well so my head is being challenged a lot.
Only following my own make-uppy plan really! I should have logged in here sooner! How is everyone else doing?
19 mile long run is fine. 22 mile training runs at appropriate LR pace for someone targeting a 4 hour marathon just take too long - around 3:40 if you’re pacing it right. No need to go beyond 2:45-3:00. Too long on feet, too great a risk of exhaustion or injury.
Murph_D is offline  
(3) thanks from:
08-05-2018, 08:50   #60
Kellygirl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burkie_Fi View Post
Joining this thread a bit late as a sub-4 is on my radar but I'm worried about my training for Cork. Did my first marathon in Dublin 2017 and ran a 4.04 quite comfortably. Started with the 4.20 pacer, bit boxed in for the first half but that pace saved me for the final 6 miles. Training is no where near the same level because I haven't given myself a huge amount of time. I'm comfortably doing 19 milers in 3 hours but I went to 22 miles in training for DCM so I'm worried I'm running out of time. First time training alone as well so my head is being challenged a lot.
Only following my own make-uppy plan really! I should have logged in here sooner! How is everyone else doing?
You sound like you are doing fine. A 19 mile LSR is grand especially if you are doing it comfortably and there’s a thought process that there is no point running for longer than 3 hours in training anyway. I would say try not to lose the head in the next couple of weeks and do nice and consistent training and then taper.
Kellygirl is offline  
Thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet