Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461

h2005 · 16-12-2018 8:26pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Don't see the issue. The bank is perfectly entitled to take control of the property.
These people took out a loan.
They could not pay it back.
Non story.
Do you remember when the banks took out loans and couldn't repay them?
Well I do and guess who paid their loans, me and you and every other tax payer in the country. They did get kicked out of their buildings.
So an ordinary man isn't able to repay and you have no sympathy for him and back the banks?

The Irish tax payer didn’t bail out KBC. So unless you pay your taxes in Belgium that post is total rubbish.

the world wonders · 16-12-2018 8:26pm

archer22 wrote: »

The makey uppy excuse (to garner sympathy) is that they were attacking loyalist paramilitaries :rolleyes:

The reality is they were attacking an IRISH HIGH COURT order which granted the repossession.

Its a challenge to the authority of the state and nothing else.

Surely unregulated private security forces are a challenge to the authority of the state?

Galwayguy35 · 16-12-2018 8:26pm

If people can't/won't pay off what they owe then banks do have to get their money back but bringing lads who identify as British from another jurisdiction and manhandling elderly people is not the way to do it.

Emotions always run high in cases like this when neighbours of the people being evicted gather at the scene and yer man calling himself a Brit was like throwing petrol on a fire.

I feel sorry for the dog but it was no harm to give Lizzie Windsors fan club a few slaps.

JCJCJC · 16-12-2018 8:27pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Was it some branch of the Ra who showed up around 5 am this morning to dole out the beatings?

Ah no. ‘‘Twas the girl guides. They are well known for keeping baseball bats handy for emergencies.

Captain Obvious · 16-12-2018 8:28pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

These people took out a loan.

They could not pay it back.

Don't see the issue. The bank is perfectly entitled to take control of the property.

Non story.

There are a number of issues. One issue is that people acting for the bank used force to remove people from a property. This is not legal. The Gardaí did not intervene because it was private property. This is not a correct interpretation of the law or their powers. A large group of people then came back and committed multiple serious offences including assault and arson. This is actually a fairly big story which ideally should see dozens being prosecuted in court.

P_1 · 16-12-2018 8:28pm

archer22 wrote: »

We have courts and a legal system for that...resorting to thuggery when you don't like the decision cannot be tolerated or the place becomes another version of Somalia

We have them yes, however unfortunately quite a lot of people have lost faith in the courts and legal system. What does one do in such circumstances. Not condoning but just asking the question

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 16-12-2018 8:29pm

HamSarris wrote: »

It’s times like these when you realise how far removed boards.ie is from the real world.

The most common argument seems to be:

I’m happy for elderly people to be forcefully evicted by loyalist militia if it results in a percentage point decrease in my mortgage interest rate

Under the veil of anonymity, i would guess a good few British people post on boards.ie and therefore they would endorse these scumbags like their security services did during the troubles.

In other words, brits gonna brit.

blueythebear · 16-12-2018 8:31pm

I don't think that this whole scenario is very difficult to figure out...

i) the owners of the farm borrowed from the Bank and did not pay them back as per the contract
ii) the Bank brought the borrowers to court and got an order for possession
iii) the Sheriff obtained possession and several people had to be forcibly removed
iv) Security guards were put in place to protect the property
v) a bunch of people decided to retake the property despite the fact that it was subject to a court order.

It's simply a criminal act to do what the 70 strong mob did and the Gardai will have to arrest people for it. They should be charged with assault and locked up.

Nothing about this scenario has anything to do with Bank bailouts as KBC did not get bailed out by this State. It does not matter that the security guys were from the North. With the lunatic fringe heavily involved in anti eviction / anti bank rhetoric, no Irish security firm will do this work so there's no choice but to get guys in from elsewhere.

road_high · 16-12-2018 8:31pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

If people can't/won't pay off what they owe then banks do have to get their money back but bringing lads who identify as British from another jurisdiction and manhandling elderly people is not the way to do it.

Emotions always run high in cases like this when neighbours of the people being evicted gather at the scene and yer man calling himself a Brit was like throwing petrol on a fire.

I feel sorry for the dog but it was no harm to give Lizzie Windsors fan club a few slaps.

What would you do? Send in cuddly kittens with notes asking them nicely to leave?

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 16-12-2018 8:35pm

road_high wrote: »

What would you do? Send in cuddly kittens with notes asking them nicely to leave?

You evict them like human beings and if they refuse to leave then you get the IRISH police to remove them. These thugs assaulted the evictees and they were suitably taught a lesson. Whoever hired this firm of loyalist scum knew exactly of their methods and hired them on this basis. Just desserts.

end of the road · 16-12-2018 8:35pm

archer22 wrote: »

The makey uppy excuse (to garner sympathy) is that they were attacking loyalist paramilitaries

The reality is they were attacking an IRISH HIGH COURT order which granted the repossession.

Its a challenge to the authority of the state and nothing else.

it's not possible for it to be an attack on a court order given one cannot attack a court order. there was also no challenge to the authority of the state given to my knowledge at least, no actual state officials such as a gard or judge, were attacked.
hired in individuals, members of a private security firm, were attacked, however, i would find it hard to believe or except that a private security firm could be considered "the state," especially officials of the state. if otherwise, then my opinion would be that we would be heading into territory that would not be a good territory to visit. also, from what is contained on the thread at least, it seems the members of this private security firm were in no way innocent in terms of their behaviour?
so therefore, i would suggest that the state or it's authority, and the court, have in no way been challenged.

road_high wrote: »

Do you think after obviusly a very long time of non engagement with the said bank for non payment of a loan they'd be sending people around to read them a bedtime story?
They choose not go without a fight, can hardly protest when the softly softly aproach comes to an end.

if we were talking about the gardai, then yes . hired private security on the other hand, no . they can complain.

HamSarris wrote: »

It’s times like these when you realise how far removed boards.ie is from the real world.

The most common argument seems to be:

I’m happy for elderly people to be forcefully evicted by loyalist militia if it results in a percentage point decrease in my mortgage interest rate

what worries me more so then one holding that view, is their belief that the rates would actually decrease if they got their way. my personal view is that may not be so likely.

Fann Linn · 16-12-2018 8:39pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Was it some branch of the Ra who showed up around 5 am this morning to dole out the beatings?

Probably just the same cop who beat up the two men last Saturday night in Castlerea.

SEPT 23 1989 · 16-12-2018 8:39pm

RIP to the two dogs

As for the men in black not so tough now are we

blueythebear · 16-12-2018 8:40pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's not possible for it to be an attack on a court order given one cannot attack a court order. there was also no challenge to the authority of the state given to my knowledge at least, no actual state officials such as a gard or judge, were attacked.
hired in individuals, members of a private security firm, were attacked, however, i would find it hard to believe or except that a private security firm could be considered "the state," especially officials of the state. if otherwise, then my opinion would be that we would be heading into territory that would not be a good territory to visit. also, from what is contained on the thread at least, it seems the members of this private security firm were in no way innocent in terms of their behaviour?
so therefore, i would suggest that the state or it's authority, and the court, have in no way been challenged.

if we were talking about the gardai, then yes . hired private security on the other hand, no . they can complain.

what worries me more so then one holding that view, is their belief that the rates would actually decrease if they got their way. my personal view is that may not be so likely.

Gardai cannot execute an Order for Possession. They cannot interfere in what is a civil matter plus the perception would be that the Gardai are acting as private securty for the Banks.

end of the road · 16-12-2018 8:44pm

gctest50 wrote: »

An ex garda making some attempt to stay there after it went to court ?

Try this :

get pulled for something and ignore all the post you get

It will eventually go to a bench warrant, when the gardai show up, try telling them you're not going

post up results here

not a comparible situation. the gardai are the legitimate enforcers of the state.

eagle eye · 16-12-2018 8:46pm

archer22 wrote:

We have courts and a legal system for that...resorting to thuggery when you don't like the decision cannot be tolerated or the place becomes another version of Somalia

You don't seem to get it. I don't think people would be quite so annoyed if this was done in a peaceful manner by people from this side of the border.
Sending in a bunch of thugs from Northern Ireland is going to infuriate a lot of people.

andekwarhola · 16-12-2018 8:48pm

Can see the point of not expecting to keep a house indefinitely without paying your mortgage but this method of repossession is pretty repugnant.

And pretty shocking to see our own Gardai standing idly by while alleged loyalist thugs operate like that.

And not only that but it's just going to unleash extreme reactions like last night.

pablo128 · 16-12-2018 8:49pm

eagle eye wrote: »

You don't seem to get it. I don't think people would be quite so annoyed if this was done in a peaceful manner by people from this side of the border.
Sending in a bunch of thugs from Northern Ireland is going to infuriate a lot of people.

You mean that the crowd(including former members of An Garda Siochana) would have simply left if a group of lads from Inner City Dublin turned up instead? Not a hope.

JCJCJC · 16-12-2018 8:49pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

RIP to the two dogs

As for the men in black not so tough now are we

The cost of the security, which could include the vans, dogs, 24-hour presence etc will all come off the bottom line as collection costs, so ultimately the three former occupiers could pay for the whole lot from any money left over from a sale when the loan is taken off the sale proceeds, therefore the baseball bat artists mightn’t have done them as big a favour as they thought.

end of the road · 16-12-2018 8:49pm

blueythebear wrote: »

Gardai cannot execute an Order for Possession. They cannot interfere in what is a civil matter plus the perception would be that the Gardai are acting as private securty for the Banks.

agreed, however we need to change from the use of private hire goons. if the gardai can't do it, then some sort of other state force should be set up. they can act in relation to all matters of civilian enforcement. but the reliance on hired goons needs to go.

pablo128 · 16-12-2018 8:50pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

Can see the point of not expecting to keep a house indefinitely without paying your mortgage but this method of repossession is pretty repugnant.

And pretty shocking to see our own Gardai standing idly by while loyalist thugs operate like that.

And not only that but it's just going to unleash extreme reactions like last night.

If you could provide some evidence that those lads were loyalists that would be great.

end of the road · 16-12-2018 8:52pm

JCJCJC wrote: »

The cost of the security, which could include the vans, dogs, 24-hour presence etc will all come off the bottom line as collection costs, so ultimately the three former occupiers could pay for the whole lot from any money left over from a sale when the loan is taken off the sale proceeds, therefore the baseball bat artists mightn’t have done them as big a favour as they thought.

it's probably unlikely they would ever get that money in practice surely?

the_syco · 16-12-2018 8:54pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you remember when the banks took out loans and couldn't repay them?

If the national banks went bust, you'd need to reply on foreign banks for loans and mortgages.

But why would a foreign bank loan you anything when the national bank went bust for doing just that?

KBC isn't a national Irish bank, however, so your point is not relevant in this case.

expectationlost wrote: »

why were these people in Falsk Roscommon evicted? had they borrowed money during the boom for something and couldn't pay it back?

they didn't pay their mortgage is too simple, there must be a story of how they go to that point...

It seems the house & farm was put against a remortgage to expand the farm, and said farm was in the family for generations.

It's alleged that a "2020 white paper" for farming encouraged farmers to expand, and if this is true, there'll be more farm evictions in the coming months/years. How these will be handled, after the events today, shall be interesting.

tigerboon wrote: »

If that's the case fair enough. The issue is hiring loyalist goons to do their dirty work. Are you ok with scum, who hate us southerners, being paid to assault our citizens? Have you no shame?

It seems there are Facebook pages out there who will track down those who evict people, to intimidate them, their family, etc. So apart from sheriffs, there are no eviction companies in Ireland.
So the banks have looked for security organisations from the north to evict people, as there are such eviction companies in the UK that are therefore being used.

Malcolm Tasty Salamander wrote: »

You evict them like human beings and if they refuse to leave then you get the IRISH police to remove them. These thugs assaulted the evictees and they were suitably taught a lesson. Whoever hired this firm of loyalist scum knew exactly of their methods and hired them on this basis. Just desserts.

First off, they're called Garda Síochána, not Irish police. Or more commonly referred to as the Gardai.
Secondly, the bank can wait many months to get a sheriff to evict them. The Garda do not evict people.
Thirdly, they were evicted because they didn't leave when told to do so by the Irish court.

end of the road wrote: »

hired in individuals, members of a private security firm, were attacked, however, i would find it hard to believe or except that a private security firm could be considered "the state," especially officials of the state.

Said security firm was acting on behalf of the bank who had gotten an eviction order from the Irish court.

=-=

This eviction, and the high profile eviction in Dublin both used a Northern Irish security firm to evict people. It'll be interesting to see how future evictions are handled, as it seems that people don't understand that if you can't pay, leave the house when you're told to do so.

JCJCJC · 16-12-2018 8:55pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's probably unlikely they would ever get that money in practice surely?

It obviously depends on the figures, outstanding loan vs sale proceeds. If the borrowers have other assets the bank can go after those too for any remaining balance. That retired Garda in his early sixties would have received a substantial retirement gratuity at retirement, think about that.

the_syco · 16-12-2018 8:55pm

pablo128 wrote: »

If you could provide some evidence that those lads were loyalists that would be great.

It'll be interesting if they turn out to be people with republican "ties".

gctest50 · 16-12-2018 8:57pm

end of the road wrote: »

agreed, however we need to change from the use of private hire goons. if the gardai can't do it, then some sort of other state force should be set up. they can act in relation to all matters of civilian enforcement. but the reliance on hired goons needs to go.

At the "hired goons" stage, it has already been in court, you have lost. fi fa and all that,

keavebm · 16-12-2018 8:58pm

pablo128 wrote:

If you could provide some evidence that those lads were loyalists that would be great.

If you read the whole thread yoy would know. Start from page one and work your way up then you will know

Effects · 16-12-2018 9:00pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's probably unlikely they would ever get that money in practice surely?

Why would it be unlikely? It's a cost associated with repossession. The bank won't take on that expense. They'll take what's owed, plus costs of repossession out of the price of the sale, and if there's anything left, it'll go to the former owners. The bank don't care how little that is as long as they have their pound of flesh.

P_1 · 16-12-2018 9:00pm

the_syco wrote: »

It'll be interesting if they turn out to be people with republican "ties".

Honestly I wouldn't think they would do.

From watching the video and seeing how the person said they were British, combined with their appearance (he was somewhat round and had the sort of moustache you'd associate with a traditional DUP voter) I doubt hed have had the intelligence to conduct such a deception

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 16-12-2018 9:01pm

the_syco wrote: »

If the national banks went bust, you'd need to reply on foreign banks for loans and mortgages.

But why would a foreign bank loan you anything when the national bank went bust for doing just that?

KBC isn't a national Irish bank, however, so your point is not relevant in this case.

It seems the house & farm was put against a remortgage to expand the farm, and said farm was in the family for generations.

It's alleged that a "2020 white paper" for farming encouraged farmers to expand, and if this is true, there'll be more farm evictions in the coming months/years. How these will be handled, after the events today, shall be interesting.

It seems there are Facebook pages out there who will track down those who evict people, to intimidate them, their family, etc. So apart from sheriffs, there are no eviction companies in Ireland.
So the banks have looked for security organisations from the north to evict people, as there are such eviction companies in the UK that are therefore being used.

First off, they're called Garda Síochána, not Irish police. Or more commonly referred to as the Gardai.
Secondly, the bank can wait many months to get a sheriff to evict them. The Garda do not evict people.
Thirdly, they were evicted because they didn't leave when told to do so by the Irish court.

Said security firm was acting on behalf of the bank who had gotten an eviction order from the Irish court.

=-=

This eviction, and the high profile eviction in Dublin both used a Northern Irish security firm to evict people. It'll be interesting to see how future evictions are handled, as it seems that people don't understand that if you can't pay, leave the house when you're told to do so.

I'm well aware theyre called Garda Síochána I just had to dumb it down for a few people. I was merely pointing out that our irish police force should have the duty as opposed to hiring scum to carry out these types of evictions.

I appreciate that you probably have very little going on in your life and boards offers you that little opportunity to correct someone and you probably get off on seeing people get evicted like this. I pity ye.

andekwarhola · 16-12-2018 9:02pm

pablo128 wrote: »

If you could provide some evidence that those lads were loyalists that would be great.

Fair enough, I changed it to alleged as that's the rumour that's going around, including people from the area.

I assume the reason for your objection here is purely down to a trenchant dedication to the truth of course.

The paramilitary thing (even if they were either side) isn't really the main issue. It's simply not a great idea to have this kind of unregulated heavies approach to a sensitive issue like this. I agree that people need to understand that you can't refuse to pay a mortgage indefinitely but this isn't the way to handle it and things are going to get quite hot now in the current political climate.

mikeym · 16-12-2018 9:04pm

pablo128 wrote: »

If you could provide some evidence that those lads were loyalists that would be great.

Im sure those lads would spit on the tricolour if they seen one.

NIMAN · 16-12-2018 9:04pm

I'm sure KBC aren't employing 'heavies' themselves, its more they are employing a private security or repossession firm, and KBC have no control over who a private firm hires.

To say "KBC are bringing in loyalist paramilitaries to evict people" is a mistruth.

pablo128 · 16-12-2018 9:04pm

keavebm wrote: »

If you read the whole thread yoy would know. Start from page one and work your way up then you will know

I have read and contributed to the thread from the start. All you have done is rant and rave. You wouldn't answer the one question put to you and now your trying to give a smart arse reply to a question I asked another poster.

Anyone else got any proof these lads were loyalists?

mikeym · 16-12-2018 9:07pm

The amount of kids in here making stupid comments about mortgage payments when they live with their mammies.

These people had genuine money issues in relation to the non payment of the mortgage.

No one wants to default on a mortgage payment.

NIMAN · 16-12-2018 9:09pm

pablo128 wrote: »

Anyone else got any proof these lads were loyalists?

Apparently one had a Protestant moustache.

Sycamore Tree · 16-12-2018 9:10pm

How will Brexit impact these incursions of Loyalists from NI. Will the backstop affect future Loyalist-IRA clashes?

TCM · 16-12-2018 9:10pm

Patww79 wrote:

But getting the likes of that to come into our country to force people out? They should have been chopped up the minute they came near the property.

Apparently they were fairly well chopped up last early this morning.

Fann Linn · 16-12-2018 9:11pm

pablo128 wrote: »

I have read and contributed to the thread from the start. All you have done is rant and rave. You wouldn't answer the one question put to you and now your trying to give a smart arse reply to a question I asked another poster.

Anyone else got any proof these lads were loyalists?

Any proof they weren't?

blueythebear · 16-12-2018 9:12pm

mikeym wrote: »

The amount of kids in here making stupid comments about mortgage payments when they live with their mammies.

These people had genuine money issues in relation to the non payment of the mortgage.

No one wants to default on a mortgage payment.

It's all well and good to say that nobody wants to default on their mortgage but what is the Bank to do when someone defaults on their mortgage repayments ?

The bank here will have gone through the MARP process, gone through the Court process, followed by the Sheriffs Office. Do you know how long that takes ? That's years. This has been coming for a long time and the borrower has had plenty of time to come to an arrangement with the Bank but has not done so.

JCJCJC · 16-12-2018 9:12pm

keavebm wrote: »

If you read the whole thread yoy would know. Start from page one and work your way up then you will know

Their private political view is completely irrelevant. The fact that one of them identified as British as a riposte to someone attempting to insult him for being Irish is also irrelevant. Anyone living in Northern Ireland is entitled to identify as British. The fact that people from Northern Ireland were employed to to a task in the Republic is perfectly legitimate under EU freedom of movement. The role of the Gardaí at a repossession is to prevent a breach of the peace, not to carry out the actual eviction. A court messenger carries out the eviction on the direction of the County Sheriff, based on a court order. The court messenger may ask the creditor to provide security, if peaceful possession is not given. The security company is acting on the authority of the County Sheriff who in turn is acting on a Court Order. That’s how it works.

pablo128 · 16-12-2018 9:12pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Any proof they weren't?

I'm not the one claiming they're loyalists.

onlyme! · 16-12-2018 9:15pm

the_syco wrote: »

It'll be interesting if they turn out to be people with republican "ties".

mikeym · 16-12-2018 9:15pm

blueythebear wrote: »

It's all well and good to say that nobody wants to default on their mortgage but what is the Bank to do when someone defaults on their mortgage repayments ?

The bank here will have gone through the MARP process, gone through the Court process, followed by the Sheriffs Office. Do you know how long that takes ? That's years. This has been coming for a long time and the borrower has had plenty of time to come to an arrangement with the Bank but has not done so.

Not every bank takes a sympathetic approach to those who cant or dont want to pay.

chasmcb · 16-12-2018 9:17pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Apparently one had a Protestant moustache.

The 'tache my father wore.

Dank Janniels · 16-12-2018 9:18pm

Thats that fitzmaurice elected for eternity!

end of the road · 16-12-2018 9:18pm

the_syco wrote: »

If the national banks went bust, you'd need to reply on foreign banks for loans and mortgages.

But why would a foreign bank loan you anything when the national bank went bust for doing just that?

KBC isn't a national Irish bank, however, so your point is not relevant in this case.

It seems the house & farm was put against a remortgage to expand the farm, and said farm was in the family for generations.

It's alleged that a "2020 white paper" for farming encouraged farmers to expand, and if this is true, there'll be more farm evictions in the coming months/years. How these will be handled, after the events today, shall be interesting.

It seems there are Facebook pages out there who will track down those who evict people, to intimidate them, their family, etc. So apart from sheriffs, there are no eviction companies in Ireland.
So the banks have looked for security organisations from the north to evict people, as there are such eviction companies in the UK that are therefore being used.

First off, they're called Garda Síochána, not Irish police. Or more commonly referred to as the Gardai.
Secondly, the bank can wait many months to get a sheriff to evict them. The Garda do not evict people.
Thirdly, they were evicted because they didn't leave when told to do so by the Irish court.

Said security firm was acting on behalf of the bank who had gotten an eviction order from the Irish court.

=-=

This eviction, and the high profile eviction in Dublin both used a Northern Irish security firm to evict people. It'll be interesting to see how future evictions are handled, as it seems that people don't understand that if you can't pay, leave the house when you're told to do so.

they actually do understand it. however, when in general (forget about this particular bank) banks have not been seen to have been punished where they have been wreckless, then it's not surprising people will decide what is good for the goose is good for the gander. it's not right, but it is what it is .

expectationlost · 16-12-2018 9:22pm

banks can never mislend, grand Im glad we got that sorted

gctest50 · 16-12-2018 9:22pm

mikeym wrote: »

Not every bank takes a sympathetic approach to those who cant or dont want to pay.

What do you suggest ?

a hug because you don't want to pay ?

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 9:25pm

New to the thread. In my opinion if you fail to pay your mortgage under the terms of whatever your arrangement was with the bank. They have the right to evict you. Banks have every right to unload unpreforming loans. As far as I can see, a serious crime took place in Roscommon and 8 people were assaulted doing their jobs. I don’t give a damn what their political background was before they worked for KBC.

Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

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Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461