Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

bilston · 22-12-2021 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361632#Comment_118361632

Happy with all that. I don't think Burns was likely to move, maybe if he hasn't any more caps by 2024 then he might move to England then, but I'll not lie, I hope Ulster are sniffing around one of Munster's young cubs at 10.

Wikidy · 22-12-2021 8:57pm

It is a tough profession. 2 players with 2 year deals and Jordi Murphy with a 1 year deal. Must be difficult negotiating with a long term injury. But we don't know the ins and outs going on in the background. Fit and healthy a top quality operator and happy he is staying.

TRC10 · 22-12-2021 9:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118362510#Comment_118362510

Crowley and Doak would be a frankly obscene partnership to be fair. They'd have not not allow kids into Kingspan if that happened.

bilston · 23-12-2021 4:25pm

New contracts for Nathan Doak and Stuart McCloskey. 3 years for McCloskey until 2025 and 4 years for Doak until June 2026.

Must love hardship · 23-12-2021 5:04pm

4 year contract for Doak Is a nice bit of business.. for Ulster.

bilston · 23-12-2021 5:57pm

McIlroy signed up to 2025 as well.

Dubinusa · 23-12-2021 9:13pm

Good work! Doak would be my bet to be a bolter for the rwc

UAEguy2020 · 24-12-2021 10:08am

Doak I’m pretty confident will make the RWC, maybe considered a bold statement by some but he’s a James Ryan/ Jacob Stockdale level talent.

launish116 · 24-12-2021 11:26am

Moxham has been upgraded to a Development contract.

Declan Moore has come on loan to cover Hooker, from Munster. Must be bad news for Stewart injury wise.

Paul Smeenus · 24-12-2021 5:32pm

Game off - Covid in the squad.

Bitterly disappointing - was really geared up for it.

salmocab · 24-12-2021 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370388#Comment_118370388

I’d say we’ll see a hell of a lot of postponements over the next couple of months.

Digifriendly · 25-12-2021 12:18am

This was likely to be a super spreader of latest variant so there will be some relief it has been postponed.

launish116 · 29-12-2021 5:36pm

Not looking so good for this weekend

bilston · 30-12-2021 1:24pm

I see Michael Lowry has made most metres of any player in the first two rounds of Europe with 220. James Hume is second in 214.

Now OBVIOUSLY Ulster are one of only a few teams to have played two matches so comparing with other players is pointless...however in particular 214 metres over two matches for a centre is really impressive.

Paul Smeenus · 30-12-2021 8:14pm

Reuben Crothers getting good reviews from the U20s/Munster Development game. Captained, scored, played very well apparently.

bilston · 30-12-2021 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392599#Comment_118392599

Anyone who captains the Ireland U20s is generally a decent prospect. Good to hear.

We seem to be developing some homegrown back rows at last.

Marcus Rea finally seems to be living up to potential

David McCann is getting better with every game.

Reuben Crothers captaining the U20s is a good sign.

Then there's that U19 James McNabney, so it all sounds promising.

Also I was watching the videos of the Ulster U18s/19s earlier in the season and there was an absolutely enormous No.8 playing for one of the Ulster sides. Think he is still at school so won't mention names, but he may be another to keep an eye on.

I see the Irish 20s bench 10 was an Ulster U19 player today, I'd be interested to hear if he is any use.

Lsdrugbyfan · 30-12-2021 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392695#Comment_118392695

Ross Taylor is a centre, he was the ulster u19 player on the bench.

Locke_Lamora · 30-12-2021 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392695#Comment_118392695

I was never optimistic about our backrow prospects tbh, but Rea has really put his hand up this year. Always thought Crothers was a little small as well, but he get's high praise from people who're a lot more knowledgeable than me, and the irish coaches must be impressed if they see him as captain. A good ball carrier is a profile we're probably missing from the academy, but we can't be too greedy I suppose.

Some quick searching online says that ross taylor is a centre, no idea if he can cover 10.

ljsulster · 30-12-2021 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118392695#Comment_118392695

Ulster have 3 Irish u18 back rows

Flynn longstaff- CCB/8

Josh Stevens- MCB/7

James McKillop- Foyle College/8

We do look to finally have a crop of good backrows coming through finally, just a matter of nurturing and developing them correctly.

Future’s not looking to bad

jimdemp · 31-12-2021 12:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370388#Comment_118370388

Given the injuries it was probably a blessing in disguise. Only downside is a possible undercooked side for Europe

launish116 · 31-12-2021 3:54pm

Still holding out hope…. Allison will materialise and I’ll get to see a McCann/Rea/Allison.

In other news! Milasinovich is about to get game time! On loan with Saracens

Paul Smeenus · 31-12-2021 4:00pm

I had forgotten all about Allison. He's still in the Academy.

And I came here to post the Milasinovich news. Bit of a weird one.

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1476927929766617090?t=E5B86_DNB7ja4ot-pCF0jA&s=19

launish116 · 31-12-2021 4:01pm

Cooney new contract, no mention of Length!

Thrashssacre · 31-12-2021 4:43pm

Another backrow signed as well and Addison signed a new deal, good bit of business but do Ulster really need another back row??

launish116 · 31-12-2021 5:05pm

We do, just not a squad filler.

Reidy doesn’t seem to be able to play 80mins.

Murphy yet to play this season

Rea Snr goes awol

Vermuelen will need managed/rested and could be on international duty.

Anyone know much about Reffel. Is it to much to think McCall wouldn’t off load a dud to us?

Locke_Lamora · 31-12-2021 5:15pm

Great news on Cooney and Addison. Cooney is essential to the way we play and he's a difference maker when he's at his best. Addison is always going to be an injury worry but there aren't too many players kicking about with his skill set. Great player when fit and he's probably a leader within the squad.

Honestly never heard of Sean Reffell. Quick google says he has a few appearances for Saracens and England u20's, managed 39 tackles in one game, and won their young player of the season last year, but you would wonder if they really rated him if they're letting him leave. Bit of an odd signing, probably more of a throw in for the Milasinovich loan rather than someone we were particularly chasing.

Sean Reidy is 32 so might wind down soon, and Jordi Murphy who's 30 and has been injured for ages now. I think the only other openside's we have in the squad are Timoney, who may well be away for periods with Ireland, and Marcus Rea who's upped his game but competition will do him good . McCann has been shoehorned there as well but hopefully he won't need to anymore.

Reffell is 23, IQ and probably cheap, so hopefully he's someone who can develop and be around the squad for years.

Paul Smeenus · 31-12-2021 5:17pm

"23-year-old, Sean Reffell, will join Ulster from Saracens, where he was awarded the Young Player of the Season award for 2020/21. The Irish-qualified back row also holds the Saracens record for most tackles in a game, with 39 tackles made in the Premiership Rugby Cup semi-final versus Worcester in 2019.

Known for his impressive work-rate, the former England U20s openside has made close to 40 appearances for his current club since a debut in the Anglo-Welsh Cup in November 2017."

I'd say one of Murphy or Reidy is being cut loose or bumped down the pecking order.

Paul Smeenus · 31-12-2021 5:31pm

Sorry Locke - your message wasn't up when I replied.

Reffell may also be hoping that he can carve out an international career at Ireland more easily than in England. He's IQ and he has only to look to Timoney to see how Ulster has facilitated a player working hard and earning caps after being overlooked elsewhere.

launish116 · 31-12-2021 5:55pm

Good age to be joining, fit in with the backbone we’re starting to form!

Seriously young pack building, all under 25 and could sort us for next decade.

Hopefully Allison sees how Rea has just stepped up! Just fear with the Xmas games cancelled his annual chance has gone.

Locke_Lamora · 31-12-2021 6:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396936#Comment_118396936

As much as I love our players, I really hope this isn't us sorted for the next decade. We would be in trouble lol

launish116 · 31-12-2021 6:23pm

Reid/Stewart/O’Toole

Izuchukuwu/ unknown

McCann/Rea/Timoney

That is a very inexperienced pack but give them a few seasons. Just think we have the age profile if it matures to seriously benefit us for the next decade!

Throw in Crothters, Ferrel, Allison and few others being mentioned.

When is the last time you could name a pack primarily home grown developing?

This squad is evolving, 2-3 seasons from now expect all the above will still be young but experienced.

*Obviously odd NIQ to bolster.

Paul Smeenus · 31-12-2021 6:50pm

Sheridan at second row - impressed at U20s and for the As.

Locke_Lamora · 31-12-2021 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397050#Comment_118397050

The fact that we have home grown forwards coming through means we're definitely making progress, but when I look at that list I think 'that's a start' rather than 'we're sorted' if you get what I mean. How many of those lads are likely to be first/second choice for Ireland in five years time or reach the likes of Henderson's level? There's plenty of potential but some of these names haven't really got a run of games yet and a few others I probably wouldn't mention as forming a backbone of a team.

realhorrorshow · 31-12-2021 7:34pm

I wonder is Sean Reffell related to Leicester's Tommy Reffell? He would be a good pickup for a province if so, looks a quality player.

bilston · 31-12-2021 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397290#Comment_118397290

I still find it extraordinary that our last homegrown produced international back row was Chris Henry and he retired 3 or 4 years ago.

Not sure how many, if any, of these young back rowers will play for Ireland, but you're right, to compete with Leinster, Clermont, Toulouse, Munster and Racing, we need 5 or 6 internationals in our pack.

Wikidy · 31-12-2021 10:54pm

Don't know the contract lengths of Cooney and Addison. Odd that it was not mentioned in the press release.

Can imagine internally there was feedback during the recent press release when 2 players got 2 years and 3rd got 1 year.

Clegg · 31-12-2021 11:38pm

I'm a bit surprised by the renewals of Cooney and Addison. They're great players, but both had compelling reasons to leave/not to be renewed. The former because he's a million miles out of the frame for Ireland contention for whatever reason. Thought Cooney would go to France on a big contract.

And the latter because of his appalling injury record. Addison has played just 31 games for Ulster and Ireland combined since his first appearance in September 2018.

mogwai81 · 31-12-2021 11:40pm

Is Aaron Sexton injured or just struggling to get game time with so many quality wingers at Ulster?

RuPi · 31-12-2021 11:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398317#Comment_118398317

Struggling for game time. Has scored some fantastic tries for Malone in the AIL going by the highlights on the IRFU Social Media.

bilston · 01-01-2022 1:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398308#Comment_118398308

Cooney is still vital to us. Doak is good and could be great, but Cooney is still the man. Clermont away proved this.

Addison is more debatable. When he is fit and playing well he is top class...a seriously classy player...a rolls Royce if you will...but he rarely plays and presumably isn't on a small contract. What I'm saying is that player quality wise it makes sense to keep him, but financially I don't know.

Ulster didn't announce the length of contracts for either player. It may be a year for both. A year for Addison to prove his fitness and a year for Cooney which means he is still a decent age to get a big contract in France and another year for Doak to develop.

Pure speculation on my part though.

Dubinusa · 01-01-2022 3:35am

Very surprised that Cooney signed. I think he could have made serious money in France.

Addison is in a different boat. Constantly injured, no run of games at all. I would be surprised if he had many offers.

salmocab · 01-01-2022 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399026#Comment_118399026

You really shouldn’t be surprised, he’s ulsters starting 9, this constantly happens on boards someone new comes along or a team sign a player and people move other players along particularly to France for a big pay day but it very rarely happens.

Former Former Former · 01-01-2022 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118399154#Comment_118399154

Definitely. Posters greatly overestimate the "big payday in France".

Cooney was turning 32 at the end of his existing deal, if he got any sort of decent extension he'd have taken it with both hands

launish116 · 02-01-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397385#Comment_118397385

My biggest gripe is Allison, Rea, McCann all excelled at u20s and few others in the past. If they had been elsewhere would they be further along in development?

Still put this down to lack of said depth and a higher baseline across the board for the squad. Ulster traditionally have always needed as strong as possible teams fielded leaving little room for development.

That has now changed but still behind the other provinces and I look at Munsters emerging talent and think they’ve leap frogged us again. With a similar age profile shadowing us.

Internationals come when squads raise their game and continue to peak!

RuPi · 02-01-2022 11:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405027#Comment_118405027

Look at Prendergast at Connacht, was only on the bench in the 20’s team that McCann captained and he is a standout now at URC level and comfortable in Europe.

I know Rea came good in the last 2 European games but it has been a long time coming.

Being able to develop back five forwards from International Under 20 level to quality operators at URC never mind European level is a huge concern.

Locke_Lamora · 03-01-2022 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408314#Comment_118408314

Gavin Coombes was behind Marcus Rea at u20 level, Paul Boyle was in the same year and Caelan Doris was a year younger if memory serves, although Doris was always a standout talent so comparing them might be unfair.

We've actually had a few backrowers in the u20 squads and none of them really fired a shot to suggest that they were pro players and our second rows have been depressingly poor both in terms of age-grade representation and academy development. So yea, it's hard to say we can trust our coaches yet to build a pack from the academy even if there's finally some decent talent coming through.

launish116 · 03-01-2022 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408314#Comment_118408314

Couldn’t Agree more! Pendergast has been very good! Are first major issue is lack of squad depth even at URC level.

Ulsters second biggest issue is our senior players have very little competition and yet there is still no room to consistently blood the young guns.

That has changed this season to a degree with McCAnn.

And now by flook we have now seen some of Rea’s capability!

Hopefully with Vermeulen here, we go for more 6/2 splits and keep blooding McCann/Rea and maybe eventually even see Allison (can he be worse than Jones?).

bilston · 03-01-2022 6:41pm

Wasn't Marcus Rea Ireland U19 captain?

His progress has been painfully slow, but the signs now are promising.

It does frustrate me a bit when I see one or two bit part back rows getting the nod over the likes of Marcus Rea and David McCann. Maybe on that particular day they are the better choice, but thinking ahead I'd rather see these young lads getting a shot. More often than not they perform pretty well.

Can anyone really point to Marcus Rea playing badly for Ulster? Did he not get man of the match in his debut against Leinster 2 or 3 years ago?

Paul Smeenus · 03-01-2022 6:57pm

Yes. Barrelled over a couple of Leinster lads to score the only try.

ljsulster · 03-01-2022 7:42pm

The progress of Marcus rea and Azur Allison hasn’t been helped by all the injury issues they have had

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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