Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

mfceiling

bilston wrote: »

Dungannon were a good side in my day, they don't seem to be as big a factor nowadays.

The polite way of saying they're shíte!!

Hands Like Flippers

launish116 wrote: »

Apples & oranges surely.

Big difference from Belfast big schools dominating school rugby in Ulster and Leinster schools recruiting players specifically for rugby glory. Maybe I’m being naive but surely large fee paying school offering bursaries to players from non traditional areas is more the School priorities than offering opportunities to the player. If that is common practice in Ulster do inform me.

No bursary for SM. He just changed schools to play at a better level.

Hands Like Flippers

bilston wrote: »

Big 3 (generous to Campbell to be fair)
Inst
Methody
Campbell

Best of the rest who can compete in any given year
Ballymena Academy
Wallace
RS Armagh
BRA

Everyone else...

I think Ballyclare HS had a decent team a few years ago...of course given Soper was their coach before he went to Inst is probably evidence that the best coached sides are the best at schools level, not necessarily the most talented.

The 2015-2017 Inst team was an absolute freak in that it was a combination of both.

Anyway, that's 7 major rugby schools in my eyes. Although other schools have their moments.

Presumably this list refers to schools cups rather than pro players. Think BA would be top of this list at present, at least they were a couple of years ago.

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

He probably went to Portora (or whatever its called these days).

It is a problem in Ulster, look at the Ireland Youth team every year, there are barely any Ulster club players involved.

Club rugby in Ulster is quite poor compared to Leinster and Munster, and given he resources it also compares poorly.to Connacht.

The frustrating thing is there is so much growth potential in Ulster rugby when you consider youth club rugby and on a different subject there is the possibility of expanding into Catholic schools as well. Plenty of Catholics take up rugby after school at clubs in Ulster, but by the time they are 18 or 19 you really aren't likely to turn them into a professional. The Branch needs to do more to get into Catholic schools...there may be a bit of resistance to that I suppose from some sectors but you have to battle against that if NI is ever going to move on.

Is their scope for a Club and School in the North/Ulster to do what Bandon RFC & Grammar managed with Regis Sonnes?

https://www.the42.ie/regis-sonnes-french-coach-bandon-3246575-Feb2017/

"The rugby committee (Bandon RFC) felt a link with Bandon Grammar, a pooling of their resources, could provide them with the ability to hire a full-time coach who could work with club and school.

Bandon Grammar principal Ian Coombes was supportive of the idea and the search began towards the end of last season.

Bandon director of rugby Conor Slattery was central to the initial search. He knew then-Bordeaux captain Matthew Clerkin and got in touch with the back row, utterly unaware of Sonnes’ desire for a new adventure at that time.

“I know just the guy,” came Clerkin’s reply and, after contacting Grenoble director of rugby Bernard Jackman for a reference, Slattery and Bandon reached out to Sonnes.

Sonnes was in Bandon to look around just five days after the first phone call, with a two-year contract agreed and signed within two weeks. Sonnes’ deal includes the option for a third year and already he is thinking about this project as a four-year one."

The Lost Sheep

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Presumably this list refers to schools cups rather than pro players. Think BA would be top of this list at present, at least they were a couple of years ago.

Ballymena have a few now but going through the years and past squads how many would they have had involved with Ulster going back 10/15 years?

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Is their scope for a Club and School in the North/Ulster to do what Bandon RFC & Grammar managed with Regis Sonnes?

https://www.the42.ie/regis-sonnes-french-coach-bandon-3246575-Feb2017/

"The rugby committee (Bandon RFC) felt a link with Bandon Grammar, a pooling of their resources, could provide them with the ability to hire a full-time coach who could work with club and school.

Bandon Grammar principal Ian Coombes was supportive of the idea and the search began towards the end of last season.

Bandon director of rugby Conor Slattery was central to the initial search. He knew then-Bordeaux captain Matthew Clerkin and got in touch with the back row, utterly unaware of Sonnes’ desire for a new adventure at that time.

“I know just the guy,” came Clerkin’s reply and, after contacting Grenoble director of rugby Bernard Jackman for a reference, Slattery and Bandon reached out to Sonnes.

Sonnes was in Bandon to look around just five days after the first phone call, with a two-year contract agreed and signed within two weeks. Sonnes’ deal includes the option for a third year and already he is thinking about this project as a four-year one."

Dont think so and that happened due to so many things that cant happen elsewhere. Sonnes has a history of trying some very different things. Took a year off playing pro rugby to go surfing...
How many other coaches of his level would do that?
As the quotes youve taken from articles. The link was from a contact of a player who happened to be coached by guy like sonnes.
Grammar are a fee paying school. As been said here. Most in the North are not and wouldnt have near resources of a fee paying school.

ionadnapokot

It was almost a freak set of circumstance that led to Sonnes arriving at Bandon alright!

Leaving aside Resources for a min. What about proximity or relationship between school & club?
e.g.
1. Ballymena Acc & Ballymena RFC linking up / Is there already a link?
2. Ballymena Acc & Ballymena RFC & a predominantly Catholic school linking up

edit:
Is there a will for these type of things (official links or full time coaches operating between club and schools) to happen at all?

awec

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What do you define as serious outfits though?

Schools that have the resources, money and players to have a decent crack at the schools cup.

Most schools cannot do this. For most, rugby consists of an hour after school during the week and a match on a Saturday morning. Coaches consist of the PE teacher and maybe a few others, who may or may not play for a club. There is almost certainly no former-professionals or paid coaches. Gym sessions do not exist as schools have no facilities and don't have the money to hire local facilities.

The players themselves are the guys who do not already have other sporting commitments. I know in my old school our 1st XV used to play like Methody 7th XV or something ridiculous and still lose. Our school would struggle to put together a 1st XV, the likes of Methody could field 8 or 9 sides.

All grammar schools do rugby cause it's the done thing. The vast majority of them will take it as seriously as they can, but for most it's basically just an after school extra curricular activity like any other.

irishbucsfan

That’s true in Leinster as well. Michael’s are not representative of most schools across the province.

Was a nightmare to convince our local private school to let us help them with coaching, took years of convincing. I think there are a lot of schools across the country where the teachers want to be the coaches of the side, I guess it’s an extra curricular activity for them as much as the students!

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That’s true in Leinster as well. Michael’s are not representative of most schools across the province.

Was a nightmare to convince our local private school to let us help them with coaching, took years of convincing. I think there are a lot of schools across the country where the teachers want to be the coaches of the side, I guess it’s an extra curricular activity for them as much as the students!

May be so, I was more responding to the post that Ulster has 32 rugby schools to Munster's 7. Just making the point that most of the 32 are like what I described.

And the reality is you aren't going to go from 2 hours of rugby a week taught by your history teacher to getting into the Ulster academy unless you're an exceptionally talented individual.

You could say that Ulster should put more resources into coaching at the lesser schools, but the flip side is it could just be a very poor use of funds if there isn't enough talent. I'd say most schools would have 1 or 2 good players, the problem is the other 13 guys are just playing for the craic. Compared with the big schools where you have maybe an entire team of hopefuls taking it very seriously, it's not hard to see why that's where the money is put.

bilston

Lowry
Faddes
Hume
McCloskey
McIlroy
Burns
Cooney
Warwick
Herring
Moore
O'Connor
Carter
Jones
Murphy
Coetzee

bilston

Bench
Andrew
O'Sullivan
O'Toole
Treadwell
Timoney
Shanahan
Madigan
Moxham

bilston

Headlines then...

So Warwick starts and O'Sullivam benches?

Big game for Greg Jones

No Stockdale

Shanahan benching over Matthewson

Coetzee starts

Moxham benches ahead of Gilroy and Moore

Paul Smeenus

Oof. That's not one of our better sides.

Leaving aside the heavy hitters we know are out, there's no Rea, no Mathewson, no Gilroy - a sub-Academy centre on the bench.

I wonder if there's a bit of a Covid trouble.

Still, all you can do is turn up and play.

awec

It's weaker than I'd hoped.

Paul Smeenus

awec wrote: »

It's weaker than I'd hoped.

Fellas who would walk into that team are

McGrath
Henderson
Rea Sr
Reidy
Marshall
Stockdale
Baloucoune
Addison
Mathewson
Lyttle

Possibly also Gilroy, although McIlroy may have passed him now.

You'd have to assume Curtis, Moore and probably Ludik would be on bench ahead of Moxham.

bilston

Ross Byrne at 13 for Leinster??? WTF!

#covidlife

irishbucsfan

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Fellas who would walk into that team are

The entire Leinster XV

(can we have a build up thread I can't be doing this across multiple threads)

Locke_Lamora

Must be a series if injuries in the academy if moxham is getting so much game time - Carson covers centre, sexton and rankin cover back three, and Hyde covers both.

Mcilroy deserves his place over gilroy imo.

Harsh on treadwell.

I'm sure Greg Jones is excited to be playing leister. No doubt Leo Cullen is furious that he was allowed to have a career after not being picked for the leister academy.

Paul Smeenus

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

Must be a series if injuries in the academy if moxham is getting so much game time - Carson covers centre, sexton and rankin cover back three, and Hyde covers both.

Mcilroy deserves his place over gilroy imo.

Harsh on treadwell.

I'm sure Greg Jones is excited to be playing leister. No doubt Leo Cullen is furious that he was allowed to have a career after not being picked for the leister academy.

Gotta feel sorry for him.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The entire Leinster XV

(can we have a build up thread I can't be doing this across multiple threads)

I was going to do a head to head...and then I thought better of it...

Herring, Coetzee and Hume (McCloskey if you push Henshaw out to 13) would definitely get in that Leinster team

You can argue the toss over Cooney v Gibson Park.

Thats about it

Although I'm interested by Lowry v Keenan...I think this is a massive opportunity for Lowry.

yerrahbah

2 more years

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1347182646204526593

irishbucsfan

All you have to do is brutally and intentionally insult a bunch of innocent and lovely Dublin families and the Belfast lads will fall over themselves to give you more cash

Utah_Saint

irishbucsfan wrote: »

All you have to do is brutally and intentionally insult a bunch of innocent and lovely Dublin families and the Belfast lads will fall over themselves to give you more cash

We are a simple people, easily impressed...

bilston

yerrahbah wrote: »

2 more years

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1347182646204526593

Good news

launish116

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

Must be a series if injuries in the academy if moxham is getting so much game time - Carson covers centre, sexton and rankin cover back three, and Hyde covers both.

Mcilroy deserves his place over gilroy imo.

Harsh on treadwell.

I'm sure Greg Jones is excited to be playing leister. No doubt Leo Cullen is furious that he was allowed to have a career after not being picked for the leister academy.

McIlroy well worth his position! Honestly think Gilroy could be looking a new contract elsewhere at end of the season.

Treadwell needed on bench for some impact.

Surprised Rea is no where to be seen, has he fallen out of favour? Can’t seem to lock down a starting birth weekly. Could of used his ballast.

Paul Smeenus

yerrahbah wrote: »

2 more years

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1347182646204526593

Most important re-signing of the season.

Paul Smeenus

Utah_Saint wrote: »

We are a simple people, easily impressed...

Speaking truth to power should ALWAYS be respected.

launish116

Would his contract now link in with Farrel to take over after 2023 World Cup?

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Would his contract now link in with Farrel to take over after 2023 World Cup?

No, that'll be POC.

Or possibly Jerry Flannery.

yerrahbah

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

No, that'll be POC.

Or possibly Jerry Flannery.

It's obviously going to be Zebo