Why no town square in Dublin?

3d4life · 20-11-2020 5:40pm

Hey OP, why no trolley buses in Dublin like you find in a lot of European capital cities ?

No need for battery or hybrid buses when you have trolley buses.

So, Why Is It ?

L1011 · 20-11-2020 7:09pm

3d4life wrote: »

Hey OP, why no trolley buses in Dublin like you find in a lot of European capital cities ?

No need for battery or hybrid buses when you have trolley buses.

So, Why Is It ?

The DUTC fell in love with diesels for the extremely low capital cost of serving new estates in the 20s - a few poles and the actual buses - and hence stopped extending their tram network and never did trolleybuses at all. Only Belfast had trolleybuses

3d4life · 20-11-2020 7:35pm

Ah shure L1011, dont be ruining the whole thing with your facts...

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 20-11-2020 8:18pm

3d4life wrote: »

Hey OP, why no trolley buses in Dublin like you find in a lot of European capital cities ?

No need for battery or hybrid buses when you have trolley buses.

So, Why Is It ?

We had miles of tram tracks in Dublin which fell into disrepair, those tracks could've been used for trolleys I suppose.

I don't see how that's relevant to my op though.

John_Rambo · 20-11-2020 9:02pm

You going to try and hang out in some of the civic areas listed when the summer hits Elephants?

I honestly can't see things going back to normal till Autumn, but I reckon outdoor socialisation might be the thing for summer 21 so your post is pretty topical.

3d4life · 20-11-2020 10:05pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

...

I don't see how that's relevant to my op though.

Does it have to be ?

* grasps at straws *

If we had electric trolley buses Dublin air would be much cleaner

( will that do ? )

Thelonious Monk · 20-11-2020 10:47pm

If you google European squares, you get pictures like this. I would imagine that's what the OP is talking about. We don't really have anything like that, the closest open space like that is probably Smithfield which isn't really central where the classic European squares usually are, and I used to work around that way, it's a kip in my opinion. It has the juvenile courts, lots of dodgy characters, and some really horrible buildings and corporation houses on the square. They may have fixed it up since but I remember there were literal ruins of buildings where the Cobblestone is.
There are some nice bars and restaurants there but it's not aesthetically pleasing in my opinion. Reminds me a bit of Shoreditch in London.
We do have Merrion and St Stephen's green, which are more parks than squares, so at least there's that.

21-11-2020 12:39am

The original question has been answered multiple times. Yes, there is no official town square in Dublin - that's not the way the city was built. But there are numerous examples of other not so square areas in the city which are pretty cool if people want to check them out. Doneski.

GT89 · 21-11-2020 2:35am

3d4life wrote: »

Does it have to be ?

* grasps at straws *

If we had electric trolley buses Dublin air would be much cleaner

( will that do ? )

Until the bus gets delayed because the pantograph falls off from the wires and the driver has to get out with a big stick to reconnect it.

3d4life · 21-11-2020 7:38pm

GT89 wrote: »

Until the bus gets delayed because the pantograph falls off from the wires and the driver has to get out with a big stick to reconnect it.

O/T ( 'cause there is a forum about buses somewhere nearby ) major cities around the world seem to manage bus pantograph issues fine ( San Fran, Moscow and Zurich come to mind )

kravmaga · 13-02-2021 1:05pm

imme wrote: »

Dublin has some beautiful parts and features.

Name the beautiful parts and features?

The J Stands for Jay · 13-02-2021 1:51pm

kravmaga wrote: »

Name the beautiful parts and features?

No. They already have names.

kravmaga · 13-02-2021 3:40pm

McGaggs wrote: »

No. They already have names.

?????????????????:rolleyes:

kravmaga · 13-02-2021 3:53pm

blackbox wrote: »

Policing in Dublin is very different from most European city centres.

Thats because its non existent.

Larbre34 · 13-02-2021 6:17pm

That stupid white water rafting idea. Instead, they should raise the floor of the old dock and make it into a big civic square, for speeches, concerts, meetings, protests. Have it as a market space, street food and busking spot at other times.

crazy 88 · 14-02-2021 9:24pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

That stupid white water rafting idea. Instead, they should raise the floor of the old dock and make it into a big civic square, for speeches, concerts, meetings, protests. Have it as a market space, street food and busking spot at other times.

It was actually grand with the wooden dock used by Oktoberfest. It had good potential for open air gigs too

expectationlost · 17-02-2021 11:41pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

It was actually grand with the wooden dock used by Oktoberfest. It had good potential for open air gigs too

how was the smell?

L1011 · 18-02-2021 12:04am

There were no real odor problems.

plodder · 18-02-2021 10:59am

Whatever happened to the plans for College Green? It is the natural "central square" for Dublin. It has a nice compact form that suits the scale of the city, and climate. Replace the trees etc, move Henry Gratton to the edge somewhere and put in a circular mini amphitheatre type of thing with a few rows of tiered steps. Would be a great event space...

L1011 · 18-02-2021 11:19am

Went back for redesign and a new consultation etc.

One of the main concerns of ABP that sunk it last time - too many diesel buses down Parliament Street - is being made unimportant due to changing to hybrid and then full electric buses anyway.

loyatemu · 18-02-2021 11:57am

new consultation came out strongly in favour of extending the plaza all the way to the junction with Georges St.

JustAThought · 18-02-2021 12:06pm

loyatemu wrote: »

new consultation came out strongly in favour of extending the plaza all the way to the junction with Georges St.

with the lobbyists in city hall and LA thats no surprise. How a busy corner which is an artery road can be decided to be a ‘plaza’ for a city of a million people and lobbied as such just shows the lack of ambition or vision by city ‘planners’. Of course just 3 minutes up the way we have a pedestraniased street (Grafton St) which leads into a paved concourse and into a beautiful city park. But no mention of this ever - nor the many other Georgian parks ready available about the city including the one that was gifted to the people of the city by the catholic church in one of the most expensive land areas of the city centre. rarely ever used to its capacity or potential yet the other side of Grafton St and adjacent to the Arts Council HQ, the National Maternity hospital and the National Gallery & Dáil Eireann & the Dead Museum - not the living dead next door. Dosn’t requite the whole city and bus network to be disrupted to use and unlike the corner of Dame St street can hold tens of thousands for an event.

Thelonious Monk · 18-02-2021 1:41pm

Merrion Square is always busy. Cars need to be taken out of the centre as much as possible, not when we have a metro built, now. People will manage like they did until everyone owned a car. It's a big mess of traffic and has been for years, and an unpleasant place to be.

plodder · 18-02-2021 3:07pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Merrion Square is always busy. Cars need to be taken out of the centre as much as possible, not when we have a metro built, now. People will manage like they did until everyone owned a car. It's a big mess of traffic and has been for years, and an unpleasant place to be.

I remember Grafton street before it was pedestrianised. It was exactly like Trinity St., Andrews St etc are now. Nice little streets, ruined by traffic.

John_Rambo · 18-02-2021 10:11pm

JustAThought wrote: »

with the lobbyists in city hall and LA thats no surprise. How a busy corner which is an artery road can be decided to be a ‘plaza’ for a city of a million people and lobbied as such just shows the lack of ambition or vision by city ‘planners’. Of course just 3 minutes up the way we have a pedestraniased street (Grafton St) which leads into a paved concourse and into a beautiful city park. But no mention of this ever - nor the many other Georgian parks ready available about the city including the one that was gifted to the people of the city by the catholic church in one of the most expensive land areas of the city centre. rarely ever used to its capacity or potential yet the other side of Grafton St and adjacent to the Arts Council HQ, the National Maternity hospital and the National Gallery & Dáil Eireann & the Dead Museum - not the living dead next door. Dosn’t requite the whole city and bus network to be disrupted to use and unlike the corner of Dame St street can hold tens of thousands for an event.

& look at what a success this was. Of course, at the time there was lots of short sighted opposition to the pedestrianisation of Grafton st.

crazy 88 · 23-02-2021 12:52am

John_Rambo wrote: »

& look at what a success this was. Of course, at the time there was lots of short sighted opposition to the pedestrianisation of Grafton st.

Grafton st is not a square. There's no benches or structures to encourage people to hang about in the middle of it. Unless you count buskers. Some would think they block up with street with the crowds that sometimes gather to watch. What was proposed on college green is completely different.

John_Rambo · 23-02-2021 12:49pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

Grafton st is not a square. There's no benches or structures to encourage people to hang about in the middle of it. Unless you count buskers. Some would think they block up with street with the crowds that sometimes gather to watch. What was proposed on college green is completely different.

Exactly, college green would be perfect where we could have benches, awnings, covered areas, stalls, markets.. another civic square.

crazy 88 · 24-02-2021 12:21am

John_Rambo wrote: »

Exactly, college green would be perfect where we could have benches, awnings, covered areas, stalls, markets.. another civic square.

Squares don't work in Dublin, for the reasons I outlined earlier in the forum

wakka12 · 24-02-2021 12:36am

crazy 88 wrote: »

Squares don't work in Dublin, for the reasons I outlined earlier in the forum

Dublin has relatively little precedent. If it is well connected to other pedestrian thoroughfares it is successful. Grand Canal Square is probably the one with the most broad appeal and would be widely considered a resounding success, others like Templebar Square are ones that are not so grand and might slip your mind but still intensively and actively used all day every day of the week. I'm sure there's more

Minime2.5 · 24-02-2021 12:39am

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Or Kiev.

Or Galway

24-02-2021 12:48am

Minime2.5 wrote: »

Or Galway

Or Waterford

John_Rambo · 24-02-2021 9:59am

crazy 88 wrote: »

Squares don't work in Dublin, for the reasons I outlined earlier in the forum

Except the ones that do work outlined earlier in the forum. Just because you don't use them doesn't mean others utilise and enjoy them.

crazy 88 · 26-02-2021 2:11pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Except the ones that do work outlined earlier in the forum. Just because you don't use them doesn't mean others utilise and enjoy them.

How do you know I don't use them? I do use them and the majority have a notable anti social presence. The boardwalks in particular.

John_Rambo · 26-02-2021 2:20pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

How do you know I don't use them? I do use them and the majority have a notable anti social presence. The boardwalks in particular.

John_Rambo wrote: »

This has come up before. "It starts with there's not public square in Dublin" then people point out a few and the people that weren't aware of them pretend they were aware of them all the time but don't like them.

That didn't take long.

The boardwalk isn't a public square and most of the civic squares I listed don't have an anti-social presence.

Padre_Pio · 26-02-2021 2:21pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

How do you know I don't use them? I do use them and the majority have a notable anti social presence. The boardwalks in particular.

With adequate policing and cleaning, any area will be lovely.

There are very few anti-social elements around Dublin city centre, unless you're counting people in tracksuits as anti-social.

crazy 88 · 26-02-2021 2:25pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

The boardwalk isn't a public square

:rolleyes:
It's the same theme. Outdoor public space with seats

John_Rambo wrote: »

most of the civic squares I listed don't have an anti-social presence.

we'll agree to disagree on that so

crazy 88 · 26-02-2021 2:26pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

unless you're counting people in tracksuits as anti-social.

no. public drinking and drug use

crazy 88 · 26-02-2021 2:32pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

With adequate policing

Unfortunately this doesn't exist. As shown by the recent increase in inner city crime.

John_Rambo · 26-02-2021 2:33pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

:rolleyes:
It's the same theme. Outdoor public space with seats

we'll agree to disagree on that so

St. Stephen’s Green, Merrion Square, Fitzwilliam Square, Temple Bar Square, Meeting House Square, Mayor Square & Grand Canal Dock are very very safe, you'll be perfectly fine. When we're rid of the pestilence you should take a little tour around the city and relax in our amazing civic squares.

crazy 88 · 26-02-2021 2:42pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

St. Stephen’s Green, Merrion Square, Fitzwilliam Square, Temple Bar Square, Meeting House Square, Mayor Square & Grand Canal Dock are very very safe, you'll be perfectly fine. When we're rid of the pestilence you should take a little tour around the city and relax in our amazing civic squares.

I would agree they are mostly safe. But the presence of people drinking and doing drugs (or people who look like they're on drink or drugs) would put off the general public from congregating in open squares or sitting in an outdoor café/restaurant, like they do in European cities. That's why I think those style squares wouldn't work in Dublin.

Padre_Pio · 26-02-2021 2:54pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

I would agree they are mostly safe. But the presence of people drinking and doing drugs (or people who look like they're on drink or drugs) would put off the general public from congregating in open squares or sitting in an outdoor café/restaurant, like they do in European cities. That's why I think those style squares wouldn't work in Dublin.

I wonder do we see this more than tourists? It's not something I notice when I'm abroad.
Is it just that I don't see it, or it's not there to see.

John_Rambo · 26-02-2021 3:01pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

I would agree they are mostly safe. But the presence of people drinking and doing drugs (or people who look like they're on drink or drugs) would put off the general public from congregating in open squares or sitting in an outdoor café/restaurant, like they do in European cities. That's why I think those style squares wouldn't work in Dublin.

People do congregate in the civic squares in Dublin. As I said before, just because you don't doesn't mean everyone doesn't. Check out Grand Canal Dock square in the middle of summer on a Friday evening. Hundreds of people congregating and eating. Great atmosphere, very relaxed.

strandroad · 26-02-2021 3:59pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I wonder do we see this more than tourists? It's not something I notice when I'm abroad.
Is it just that I don't see it, or it's not there to see.

It's definitely there, many cities also have persistent drug pushers or fake goods peddlers that we don't have. It's just that in an outdoor friendly city they disappear in the crowd.

John_Rambo · 26-02-2021 11:37pm

The city is on it's knees.

Business is not happening, particularly hospitality and the smaller operations that survive week to week. The cafes, the greasy spoons, the tours, the bars, the small food outlets and the businesses that feed off them are adrift. They are, after all the heartbeat of the city. We don't know who's going to be opened when things get back to normal, it could take a decade or more to rejuvenate and lift the shutters in certain areas of the our amazing city.

Covid has affected the cities more than anywhere and It's given a perfect opportunity for the haters to kick them when they're down as good people refrain from venturing outside their 5k. The underbelly that's always been present and is present in every city has been exposed more than ever and the realists on this thread realise this while others cravenly rejoice at the demise of the capital and other cities.

Dublin continues to be the county with the highest percentage of the population staying local and as the most highly populated county it's important that we continue to lead by example.

Hopefully the measures implemented will mean our civic areas will be packed with good people from all over the country and afar and local enterprises will be supported and will manage to pick themselves up in 2021 and we'll have a version of the roaring twenties when we get ourselves out of this mess.

wakka12 · 27-02-2021 1:17pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

I would agree they are mostly safe. But the presence of people drinking and doing drugs (or people who look like they're on drink or drugs) would put off the general public from congregating in open squares or sitting in an outdoor café/restaurant, like they do in European cities. That's why I think those style squares wouldn't work in Dublin.

Some of those squaress such as Meeting House Square and Templebar Square often have people drinking in them, although I enjoy drinking in them, but as for Merrion Square and Grand Canal Square I'd have to disagree. They don't seem to attract those types, they're very faimily friendly in my expereicne and feel extremely safe. Especially Merrion Square as it's not even open after dark.

Amirani · 01-03-2021 12:32pm

crazy 88 wrote: »

I would agree they are mostly safe. But the presence of people drinking and doing drugs (or people who look like they're on drink or drugs) would put off the general public from congregating in open squares or sitting in an outdoor café/restaurant, like they do in European cities. That's why I think those style squares wouldn't work in Dublin.

There's generally public drinking in most prominent city squares in Europe.

iffandonlyif · 13-04-2021 5:46pm

I'm very enthusiastic about the idea of pedestrianising College Green but we shouldn't expect it to be a wonderful addition to the city in itself. For one, the proposed plaza is a deceptively small area. Then there's the fact that there are few retail units that face onto it. Trinity College on one side, Bank of Ireland on another, which is opposite Abercrombie and Ulster bank. These are not going to be putting out chairs and awnings. That could well be solved if they pedestrianise down to George's Street, where there are smaller units. But even there there aren't many good-quality retailers yearning to put out chairs, as is the case around South William Street. It could take a while for Snap Printing and 'Jia Yin's Acupuncture' to be replaced.

Someone above put it well by saying that when circumstances align - sunny weather, public celebration - it will look brilliant, but for most of the time it will be pretty plain. If we raise our expectations above that, we will be disappointed. To my mind, the great promise of pedestrianising College Green is that it will tie the city together, connecting Grafton Street and the surrounding cafe quarter with Temple Bar and O'Connell Street, and cementing CG as the central axis of the city.

L1011 · 13-04-2021 6:44pm

That Abercrombie store is not reopening; Ulster Bank are pulling out of the country. Those units will be replaced.

iffandonlyif · 13-04-2021 6:57pm

L1011 wrote: »

That Abercrombie store is not reopening; Ulster Bank are pulling out of the country. Those units will be replaced.

Damn, where will I get my preppy polos now? But that inconvenience aside, the use of those units will likely remain unchanged. Neither is likely to be replaced by a retailer that would genuinely contribute to the plaza - Fallon and Byrne, say.

VonLuck · 14-04-2021 7:23pm

I saw a great post on LinkedIn I think where someone suggested turning the Dublin Castle courtyard into a public square, converting the ground floor offices in the colonnades into cafés, restaurants etc. with outdoor seating.

Seems so obvious now, yet I don't think I've ever seen someone suggest it before (unless it's buried somewhere here in this thread!).

Why no town square in Dublin?

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